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Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Doughboy, May 12, 2012.
You just read my mind.
I would love to see Shiftry more... It is truly overshadowed in OU. It can reliable beat Politoed and Tyranitar if Evd properly. It can also nail the snow giant, but of course on the switch.
Out of every Sun Abuser there is, I think Sunflora is the most underappreciated one. With Max Special Attack+Specs+Solar Power, it's Special Attack hits 693, and though it's special movepool consists of 2 Sun-Abusing attacking moves in HP Fire and Solarbeam, it can do devastating damage to threats. Also, despite it's 86 Speed with the lack of Chlorophyll and Speed EV's, it can be an absolutely devastating sweeper on Sun Trick Room teams.
Now I am not here to post or anything but doesnt the OP tell you to test your pokes/sets before posting them? Lets see how others feel about your sunflora. Its completely walled by dragons. Compared to Charizard, its nothing. Charizard's fire blast is stronger than kyogre's water spout and this lets it kill resists. Also do not come up with Hidden Power Ice to hit dragons, since you did not mention this in your posts, we are to assume that sunflora doesnt use it.
Obviously you would have to eliminate threats first. Nothing can cover every threat, especially not NU pokes. You can't expect Sunflora to be able to just sweep whole teams by itself- it needs support. You might as well say that Breloom is terrible in OU because it's completely shut down by Tornadus. Yes, Tornadus can OHKO any Breloom. No, that does not mean it is a sack of shit. I'm not saying Sunflora is good, as I haven't tried it myself. But don't make assumptions that something's bad just because there are some threats it can't get past.
I wasnt saying it like that. I was just saying that sunflora is not supposed to be in this thread. What does it do? It is outclassed by every chlorophyll sweeper and Charizard is a better solar power sweeper. People shouldnt just post things and say that "I would like to see thing because it can do this and that" - it has to have something that makes it better. I mean could you even imagine a sunflora on a serious team? BTW he said "underappreciated". Well obviously and choice specs and solarbeam makes it even worse. What happens when a weather inducer switches in? HP fire and Solarbeam coverage must be awesome as both as useless in other weathers and its over-reliance on sun is not helping it. When the oppsing team has a Scizor and Tyranitar, what do you do with those two moves? Sunflora is worthless and its defense doesnt do it any good as it gets taken out by scizor's bullet punch easily. I noticed that you are new here. Welcome to smogon and make sure not to post untested pokemon next time. Also, sunflora's counters stretches for miles so that argument is moot.
Sunflora is so bad, I don't even know where to start. First of even with the Solar Power boost a base 105 SpAtk is not strong enough in the OU metagame. Also it can't outspeed pretty much nothing with a 30 Speed base except for Ferrothorn and Forretress which can switch in on choice locked Solarbeam with ease. It has no bulk at all. With 75/55/85 it probably will get 2HKOed by Rapid Spin. So it can't switch in on anything and it gets revenge killed by everything. When you use Sunflora on a sun team, you wasted a valuable team spot for death fodder. But what can expect from Sunkern's evolution.
Naw the strongest rapid spinner in the tier, Donphan, does 10.3%-12.3% to sunflora, rapid spin is a terrible attacking move.
But yeah 105 attack in the sun isn't to bad, but the speed is an aweful let down. The only way I could see it sweep is under trick room, and running sun is hard enough, but sun and trick room is a little to hard. Not to mention that sunflora can't ever outspeed Forretress and Ferrothorn in a trick room. And even after all that, Sunflora lacks the movepool to sweep, any Dragon type can come in and completely wall it.
If you want a sun sweeper and want to feel cool, use Sawsbuck, Victrebel, Charizard, or Shiftry.
^Victreebel is a boss.
LOL that was a joke. But it gets 2HKOed by powerhouses like Xatu, Porygon2 (defensive) and Eelektross.
See? Victreebel is another poke that is seriously underrated. With great physical moves such as Leaf Blade,Sucker Punch,Seed Bomb, and Power Whip. It's special movepool is even move vast as it includes, but is not limited to: Giga Drain, Hidden Power, Weather Ball, Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, and Solarbeam. The great thing about Victreebell is it's Attack/Special Attack stats are base 105/100 respectively. You can go with any of the following movesets: Physical Growth,Special Growth, Mixed Growth, and Swords Dance. Hell, you can go with a Sub or Sunny Day set too. Victrbeebel's offensive capabilities are stunning and unbelieveable. I can't comprehend why people doesn;t use it more.
In the sun, what exactly does victreebell break that venusaur doesn't?
I thought so-venusaur can at least carry earthquake, making other teams wary. It's also much bulkier, although victreebell has more power. I suppose you could carry both, or just a dugtrio, but still, not that good.
Outside of the sun, victreebell's physical SD set, unless it's also carrying HP fire(And even then) is still laughed at by plenty of pokemon. That goes for all of its other sets, too. If you want to argue "versatility", go use a mew.
Weavile is very under-rated. Most folks use him with no finesse or try and fit him for roles he can't really shine in (set up sweeper).
But used with precision he can solve all your dragon problems and can scare quite a few things out with his presence.
He also acts as the most awesome Scizor lure and a double switch to Weavile then to a Scizor counter with a set up move/sub is an awesome way to gain momentum.
What you haven't mentioned is massive legality issues with the sets as he can't run all of his best options simultaneously, the fact that he has no utility outside of Sun (Venusaur can at least tank and outspeed a few things) and he's frailer than a breadstick. Scizor has its way with him.
Base Post for Underrated Sets
Alright since this thread seems to be devolving into "post any set not seen in OU and call it amazing" I think it is time to bump up this thread. First, make sure to to read the OP.
Second, from this point on you can no longer suggest Pokemon movesets as underrated. I really wanted this thread to focus on the (really) lower OU and below Pokemon and people already know the attributes of OU Pokes. However, this rule extends to the BL and below Pokemon so be on your toes! I want it to focus on all aspects of the proposed underrated Poke, not just one moveset.
Third, this post will be the compendium for all underrated Pokemon! For each Pokemon that has been talked about before, I will list it here and puts links to the posts describing the reasoning as to why they are underratted. Hopefully these posts will act as an example as to what you should write about when you say a Pokemon is underrated. Note that sometimes discussion follows these posts so you should probably check the subsequent posts after the linked one.
Anyway let's get started!
Staraptor: Post 1, Post 2
Scolipede: Post 1
Wobbufett: Post 1
An Interesting Suggestion
A Follow Up to the suggestion
Using Myzozoa's definition of underrated, I would like to bring up Roserade. I'm gonna make this post pretty!
Grass / Poison
Natural Cure / Poison Point / Technician (DW)
Yeah, it's a Grass/Poison type. But don't you dare think it's outclassed. Roserade is a grounded Poison type that doesn't rely on weather (Venusaur, Tentacruel to an extent), for one. It also has a rather sexy base 125 Special Attack and usable 90 base Speed. Lastly, it gets Sleep Powder. This allows it to be an excellent support Pokemon with some bite to it. I needed a grounded Poison-type for my most recent team, and since Tentacruel didn't have what I was looking for, Roserade answered the call admirably. I'm running an offensive set (Leaf Storm / Sludge Bomb / HP Fire / Sleep Powder) and I've seen sets with hazards used quite effectively. It's definitely a Pokemon to look out for in OU.
EDIT: Well, shit, I guess I missed that... I'll be honest, it's been a while since I read the OP :\
I actually used Roserade as the example in the OP. All of this is true, but I think the most important and best part about her is the defensive aspect. The two stall teams I have made had both included a Roserade. It is actually really good on balanced teams as another resource for Spikes. She definitely better than Ferrothorn setting up Spikes against bulky waters since she laughs at all Scald damage. Hopefully she will get to shine once Keldeo comes out because of Toxic Spikes.
This metagame has done away with traditional leads to the point that they're actually good again, even despite team preview, since even if they know what's coming, they can't stop it. Aerodactyl in particular handles the job of getting rocks down while preventing the same from your opponent very well with his blazing 130 speed and taunt. Additionally, outspeeding Adamant +1 Dragonite and Gyarados, some scarfers, and all unboosted mons you normally see in OU besdies Jolteon is awesome. Even at 1 hp after Focus Sash activates, if you can keep rocks off the field, Aerodactyl can keep revenge killing with impunity since he's unaffected by Spikes/Sandstorm. He also (I believe) 2hkos Espeon and Xatu with STAB Stone Edge, which deals with that. Other highlights include slapping around lead Dragonite and Volcarona and dominating Sun teams. Against stuff like Rotom-W and Scizor, you'll lose the sash, but getting rocks up is well worth it.
I completely agree with this, no reason to explain, because he already explained every detail there is to explain about Aerodactyl. (Also that scorching base 130 Speed allows it to hit 394 Max Speed without a Scarf, so it's nothing to laugh at)
Ok let me give this a go.
160 / 110 / 65 / 65 / 110 / 30
Unfortunately after being OU for generations Snorlax got forgotten this generation, but that doesn't give you an excuse to underestimate it. A monster HP and special defense with that great attack pretty much leaves it as the last specially defensive tank viable in OU. Snorlax can easily take a special hit and dish one out just as hard if not harder. It doesn't have half bad defense either, so it can take some physical hits and isn't pursuit bait. Due to thick fat Snorlax laughs in the face of Volcarona, Heatran, even in the sun, it can also be a solid counter to Latias, Latios, Reunicles, Starmie (without rain admittedly), and Gengar. It can even trap and kill these treats thanks to pursuit. Overall Snorlax plays pretty much like Tyranitar as far as what it deals with, except it’s not Tyranitar, so you can run it on your sun or rain team and still get the benefits of trapping things like Latios. For this reason Snorlax works great on sun teams as these pokemon also hinder their sun sweeper’s sweep. So next time Volcarona and other special attackers are giving you a problem, try out snorlax.
The set I am speaking of is the choice band set, I haven't played with other sets because it works so well. So I may have a huge bias for it. The set:
Snorlax (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
I have tried them all and i personally think the best use for Weavile is the choice banded set which makes great use for getting rid of psychic and ghost types with night slash or persuit.
Then you can let your fighting type like Terrakion for example steam roll through the enemy team.
I agree that Weavile is underrated. He can take out a lot of key threats with Ice Punch/Ice Shard/Pursuit/Low Kick, for example non CS Terrakion, Tyranitar, Latios, Haxorus, Dragonite(with it's Multiscale broken), and Landorus just to name a few.
Also, what ever happened to Gengar? He is one of my favourite special attackers, and only really fears Scizor(Tyranitar can be taken out with a Focus Punch or Focus Blast). He is a truly excellent Pokemon, and the ability to Spin Block without being super vulnerable to Toxic Spikes (Jellicent) makes him very viable for stall teams.
I agree with the Gengar part, as there aren't as many as there were in Gen 4. He truly is an excellent Pokemon for the the reasons he posted. Gengar is also a great revenge killer for many teams. Here's the set.
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Gengar @ Choice Scarf Lv. 100 -- Levitate
Nature: Timid - EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
-Hidden Power [Ice]
Gengar @ Choice Scarf Lv. 100 -- Levitate
Nature: Timid - EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
-Hidden Power [Ice]