What makes a Pokémon fun to use in-game?

[stage7_4]

One interesting thing I saw are the outliers, like #7 Tyranitar in the Johto list and #8 Metagross on Hoenn. The two that because of the game's set-up couldn't possibly have been true in-game 'mons. Do people really go out of their way to use them post game that much (or trade them in)? Or should we throw those out as popularity votes?

The other thing I noticed is the lack of legendary pokemon. While it is an extremely common idea to not use them in-game (and I also avoid using them myself), from an efficiency standpoint it is useful to pick up a legendary bird to take on the elite four or use the cover legendary as a late-game spot filler. I also thought more younger players would vote for them, were legendaries barred from the voting process I wonder?

As for the dawn stone trend, I think there is a mental push to try out the "local flavour" as you would, a trend of deliberately picking the newer 'mons to try them out rather than falling back on the golden oldies over and over.

 

[Roseguardin]

One interesting thing I saw are the outliers, like #7 Tyranitar in the Johto list and #8 Metagross on Hoenn. The two that because of the game's set-up couldn't possibly have been true in-game 'mons. Do people really go out of their way to use them post game that much (or trade them in)? Or should we throw those out as popularity votes?

The other thing I noticed is the lack of legendary pokemon. While it is an extremely common idea to not use them in-game (and I also avoid using them myself), from an efficiency standpoint it is useful to pick up a legendary bird to take on the elite four or use the cover legendary as a late-game spot filler. I also thought more younger players would vote for them, were legendaries barred from the voting process I wonder?

As for the dawn stone trend, I think there is a mental push to try out the "local flavour" as you would, a trend of deliberately picking the newer 'mons to try them out rather than falling back on the golden oldies over and over.

As the sample is mostly Redditors, I feel like a fair amount of them would know enough about the game to grind up a Larvitar or Beldum even in postgame just for the factor of having those two Pokemon. I also feel like as Reddit goes as a Pokemon community, there are probably more members who share your personal stance on legendaries (not using them out of personal preference) just because they might see it as a more skillful way to play the game. Although I have no knowledge of r/pokemon's demographics, I would say that they're all probably around most Smogonites' ages so kids' votes wouldn't be as large a factor (although I suppose there's nothing stopping a 6 y/o from going on Reddit)

 

[Altissimo]

And so you end up with more than two thirds of the players chosing to spend two of their team slots on the same two Pokémon families among ~200 different Pokémon families in the game.

Some of this has to do with availability of those families. For instance, Togekiss is a Pokémon that I really, really want to use in-game, but never have because its availability is extremely limited, even in the post-gen-4 games where Togepi is obtainable, by its evolution method. Togetic, learning mostly physical moves with a base Attack of 40, is basically unusable to the point that you need to essentially baby Togetic until you can get a Togekiss, which I have never had the patience to do. I want to use Togekiss in the game, not Togetic. And even when I get Togekiss I need access to the Move Relearner to give it its best attacks, which may not be possible depending on the game and my item stash. So Togekiss' low availability hampers it and makes me not want to attempt to use it.

And I'm not saying that low availability is a problem for every Pokémon that possesses that trait. I had a friend use Dhelmise on her first playthrough of Moon, and I've used Absol on playthroughs of Hoenn despite it not showing up until around the 6th gym. But in the case of Togekiss it requires painful babying, whereas Absol and Dhelmise do not.

Also, re: Shinx and Mareep: I think there's a bias on the part of players for very "elemental" early-game mons, aka ones that aren't Normal, Flying, or Bug, and have a moveset to match their type. Notice also that Nidoking and Raichu are very high in Kanto, Gardevoir and Breloom in Hoenn, Roserade in Sinnoh, Arcanine and Lucario in New Unova.

 

[nameless90]

People often run Starly, Shinx and Mareep on their in-game teams because they not only are good early-game monsters, but have a huge degree of utility throughout the game, including good moves and abilities. They become better and better throughout the game, so they are "obvious" choices unless you decided to have a different team early on.

In comparison, traditional bug/normal types have generally low stats and they have a low appeal.

 

[Codraroll]

People often run Starly, Shinx and Mareep on their in-game teams because they not only are good early-game monsters, but have a huge degree of utility throughout the game, including good moves and abilities. They become better and better throughout the game, so they are "obvious" choices unless you decided to have a different team early on.

In comparison, traditional bug/normal types have generally low stats and they have a low appeal.

Yes, it's fairly easy to see why these Pokémon are often used. The question is: is their presence early on a good design choice? That's what I'm torn on.

If Starly and Shinx had been accompanied by a handful of other high-appeal Pokémon on Route 202, would players pick their favourite one or two, or would they load up their entire team there and then? Conversely, if they were moved back a few routes, to 205 or 206 or so, would players bother catching anything on Route 202 at all?

I'm more than a little uncertain on whether it's a good thing to provide high-appeal Pokémon early on, from a design standpoint. Without them, people might find the early-game boring. Add too many, and people will fill their team before reaching the first milestone of the game (giving the rest of the game's Pokémon a much harder time staying relevant). Add one or two, and "every" player will end up using the same Pokémon.

It seems like Sun and Moon tried the "give players many options early" approach, then decided that there was no point in adding interesting Pokémon closer to the end of the game. They seem to have been banking on players mostly filling their teams on MeleMele Island, perhaps topping them off at Akala, and then not bothering with interesting Pokémon in the latter half of the game. Hence why there are Gumshoos and Pelipper everywhere, and the high-appeal options are hidden where people need to look specifically for them. I'm beginning to think this was a deliberate strategy (successful or not, that's up to the players) rather than the blaring display of incompetence we've assumed so far. They were actually assuming that people would plan their teams out in advance, and made sure to concentrate the most interesting options in the first third of the game.

 

[stage7_4]

Not that this invalidates Codraroll 's point about deliberate design, but I do feel that when it comes to Sun and Moon we are missing some context in the second half of the game.

While it is clear they front-loaded MeleMele and Akala, that isn't to say they didn't save some better 'mons until the end (Mimikyu on the third island being the best example). Even the bare Poni island has many desirable pokemon hidden within... just most of these are in the post-game section.

But let's consider the plot at this point, shall we?

For the first two islands and half of the third the game plays almost like typical pokemon. Here's the island, go fight all the gyms, come back here when you're done. Likewise, these sections have the most emphasis on exploration, encouraging the player to scour the island searching for pokemon high and low. There is no pressure hanging over your head, you are free to take your time.

Then the plot kicks in.

Poni Island is getting the most flack for it's 'mon availability but it's the perfect microcosm for my point: the designers didn't expect the player to stop and hunt for pokemon at this point. When you arrive on the island the plot has reached it's apex: Nebby is comatose, two people are trapped in Ultra Space, Lillie's character arc is climaxing, and everything else is taking a backseat. Even the island challenge has become more of an afterthought (the last two grand trials have a feel of "we don't have time to waste so let's get this over with," and there are no regular trials after the plot heats up. Dragon trial being the "irregular" trial).

The player is clearly in a plot tunnel, a subtle and more mental or atmospheric one but nonetheless a tunnel. There is a drive to finish the plot as fast as you can because you've got to save Nebby! And my banjo! And Guzma I guess.

So I think that given this plot takeover, the developers felt that the typical player wouldn't want to stop and search for pokemon, let alone consider taking a day to train up a newbie. So they encouraged this behavior in the pokemon availability on Poni island, there isn't too much to see so you won't be missing anything if you overlook it for story progression.

Given typical player behavior, I can't really fault them for thinking like this. If I come to a fork in the road in a video game, I typically go down both (hoping that my first choice is the one with the treasure chest or dead end so I don't have to constantly worry that I missed something). And I do feel a bit confused regarding tone when at the night before the final boss three dozen side-quests open up despite the world ending in the morning (so should I worry or just relax?).

They knew that by Poni Island they were giving the plot more focus than the setting so they did just that.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Late game Pokemon getting the short end of the stick has always been a problem, even if they are/become really good. Unless you're specifically saving a slot for them in your team, you'll have you essential core team by the middle of or, at most, 2/3rd way through the game. And even then it's only one or two late game Pokemon you're looking forward to add, all the other late game Pokemon are out of luck. Especially for new ones who didn't get advertised so we weren't looking forward to getting them, a sad catch 22 when it comes to the playerbase wanting some new Pokemon to be kept surprise but they aren't early route Pokemon.

I suppose a solution would be shoving the first half of the game with the Pokemon that GF would predict players would like and having the second half be kind of barren except for niche Pokemon to fill out any gaps the core party may have, but that itself presents problems. Now you essentially assured late Pokemon will probably never see battle, also with so many good options early on it could be an overload to the player.

So, is there a way to solve or at least lessen this problem? Here are some thoughts I've had:

1. Reserve Pokemon

For a long time it's been 6 Pokemon on our party. This is a reasonable number, with careful planning it allows you to cover wide variety of types, create strategies and team synergy, but at the same time leaves gaps so that the game could throw you a curve ball you weren't expecting. But, as we discussed, these six slots get filled up fast. If there's any other Pokemon you want to train you're going to have to run back to the nearest PC and switch out, so most of the time players stick to a core 6 (early on they may use a temporary party member to help them for early challenges, but they get switched out once they're job is done or the Pokemon you want becomes available). So, what if we were given a way to carry some extra Pokemon with us? I AM NOT SUGGESTING EXPANDING THE BATTLING PARTY. What I'm more suggesting is that maybe give us 6 "active slots" and then like 3 or 4 "reserve slots". How it'll work is when you enter a battle (or a battling challenge like a Gym, Trial, Pokemon League, or Battle Facility) only the Pokemon in your 6 "active slots" can be chosen from. But outside of battle you can switch Pokemon between the "active slots" and "reserve slots" like you do swapping a Pokemon's place in your party. In addition, if they bring field obstacles back you can use the "reserve Pokemon". I wouldn't suggest for them to get experience from Exp. Share (thereby encouraging players to be constantly switching in and out of the reserve), also obviously they wouldn't heal their HP or status ailments being put on the reserve (though you could still use Potions, curatives, and play with them in that game's version of Pokemon-Amie/Refresh). Finally you'll be given these reserve slots throughout the game, so you could be past the 2/3rds point and be given additional reserve slots. While you could go back and get a Pokemon in the PC you wanted to use, this might also encourage players to use more later game Pokemon they normally wouldn't have now that they got the extra room in their party.

2. Force Constant Switching

This is a little bit more difficult, especially it'll mean challenging the players (LE GASP!). Simply put, you shouldn't be able to stroll into a battling challenge like a Gym or Trial and be able to just clear it with your core team. NO! The challenge in there should be difficult enough that if you want to beat it you'll have to raise some of your other Pokemon to help you get through. This could be done in a few ways.

• First, not letting you leave until you complete it/lose/give up and gaining no experience until completing the challenge. While Trials do this, with Gyms you were always able to leave which, while obviously trainers giving themselves a challenge wouldn't do as it cheapens the experience, did suck out the challenge just knowing you could do it (and since the trainers don't reset you'd have an easier time through repeat). But in order to do that the trainers can't give out experience upon beating them, which might not be a bad idea. Yeah, some use the additional experience as training, but then again you should already be able to take on the challenge upon entering it. Course would be cheap to rob you of that experience so instead the experience is just held until completing the challenge and then applied to your Pokemon (it'll feel like those auto level ups you get after beating bosses in other RPGs). Also there is precedence for it, in the Colosseum games a Shadow Pokemon did not get any of the experience it earned until purified.
  
• Second is having additional trainers in the vicinity who not only use Pokemon of the boss's type but also have those who don't. Have other trainers, maybe other challenge takers or staff of the boss assigned to do this, who's team is varied in a way that you should be using the types that would be most effective against the vicinity's type by giving other types difficult times. And the boss shouldn't be a slack either, if anything their team should be made to not only show the strength of their specialty but also counter your counters. Maybe have them use a strategy the player has to work around. They could even take it a few steps further: giving them Pokemon not normally available (though GF could just shove that Pokemon somewhere just so the boss could use it) and having their strategy start working out of the gate. What do I mean by the a latter? Well if the boss's strategy involves weather, have it so the weather is active as you enter the battle and keeps going unless changed by the player. Boss uses slow Pokemon? The room you're in just so happens to emit an effect similar to Trick Room! They could even have ways for the boss to boost their Pokemon's stats for free, you know, like Totem Pokemon & Mother Beast Lusamine.
• Finally, and maybe the most controversial suggestion: level caps. Whether in the challenge itself or adding it as a main gameplay mechanic, have it so your can only go through the challenge with your Pokemon at a max level... and then have the additional trainers be at/near that max level and the boss have their Pokemon ABOVE it. Evening the level field would mean type advantage means more than ever, especially if the opponent's Pokemon is above your level. If they just have it so the challenge lowers your Pokemon's levels, it'll be no different than going through a Battle Facility or participating in an online competitions (imagine, the game actually preparing players for the post game/meta scene). If they make it a major gameplay mechanic, they can make beating the Trail or Gym feel even more epic as that'll mean raising your level cap! Now the latter would need additional work to make it work (like gaining experience after reaching max), but that's why this is a controversial suggestion. Also a lot of younger players rely on over leveling to help them win, so making sure they can get through would be another design obstacle (maybe implementing an Easy, Medium, and Hard difficulty?).

That all said and back on track, the downside to this is you can't really get a strong connection with the Pokemon in your party as your constant switching them out to prepare for the next challenge. You'll also need to know what the next challenge is to prepare for it which would hint to being railroaded and maybe being given info you'd otherwise would have to be a surprise like the next challenge's type. But that leads me to my final thought.

3. Open World

Or at least close to it. The problem we keep bringing up is filling the team early on and thus no room for the later Pokemon. Pokemon is a linear game, so what this actually means is you fill your team on the early locations you have access to while later location's Pokemon go often unused. The problem is more you just don't have access to these Pokemon early on. So, why not make it so you can? Have it so that from the start a majority of the region is open, maybe you can visit every single major town/city and their connecting routes before challenging the Gym/Trial. I saved this for last as it would involve a MASSIVE redesign of how progression is done in the Pokemon games, but at the same time maybe it's the biggest that could be the most helpful (I mean, look how this really brought new life into the Zelda series with Breath of the Wild).
Sticking to the Pokemon, doing this could make most of the Dex available from the start, you just need to travel to that location the Pokemon is which can be done before challenging any Gyms/Trials or story progression. Or maybe plan your own route, you decide which Pokemon are available to get from the start and will have an option to catch (but probably not) later. Also it's not like there won't be any new Pokemon or stronger wild Pokemon later, as you beat Gyms/Trials you get access to new locations, maybe one off places or shortcut routes/tunnels, which will have their own Pokemon and be at higher levels so you have a place to grind.
Obviously going open world would have other problems to address like story progression (though that can be solved using event flags, locking certain locations off until you're ready for the player to go there, and maybe scaling the levels and moves of the antagonists) and how NPC trainer battles would work (overleveling would be an issue (though I point back to my suggestion of level caps), and you'd need more to show up or have ones beaten to become stronger to help the player get their Pokemon leveled up). But right now I'm just focusing mainly on the topic at hand.

On a final thought, this could be yet another reason why Nuzlockes are interesting. Nuzlockes limit the Pokemon you can use (and makes it so you can lose a Pokemon permanently) so in those playthroughs its more likely a later route Pokemon might be given a chance to battle where in a normal playthrough you'd probably have a trained Pokemon that can do the job already. Granted in Nuzlockes more than ever would you want a core team, but those deaths can sometimes hit you out of nowhere and now you find yourself with an open team slot and you're in the late game and you may not want to grind up the low leveled Pokemon in the PC...

 

[Magnus0]

I see that that is a pretty hefty discussion going on over here, so naturally I´m going to ignore it and just post my thoughts of the main topic. Sorry if I break up the thread a bit...

Anyway, for me a pokemon is fun to use if it has some fancy or unique moves or ability. I find it kinda boring to have a pokemon that only deals damage and takes damage, without having any sort of utility or niche for in-game play. Some good examples of pokemon that I really enjoyed using are Magcargo, pachirusu and Jumpluff. Those pokemon might seem useless at first, but they are all pretty hard to kill and are amazing teamplayers. Magcargo is a pretty reliable source of causing burns with lava plume and flame body, and combined with amnesia, he becomes almost indestructible to anything that's not a water or ground type. Pachirusu is a tank, seriously, with charm and light screen support Pachirisu can cripple almost any opponent. coupled with u-turn, pachirusu can make it much easier for allies to get in, which is especially invaluable in nuzlockes. Pickup is nice to have too. Things like that really spice up your playthrough, and it's pretty hilarious to see your pachirusu tank the shit out of a gyarados to slay it later with some sparkles.

I guess the hipster in me just wants to use pokemon that not a lot of other people use, but I still draw a fine line between an underappreciated pokemon and a plain horrible pokemon. Gumshoos for example is utterly useless. It can't take damage at all, and it has nothing to make up for it. This is something I really hate. If a pokemon is so bad that it can't be used in-game, said pokemon might as well not exist at all. At no point would anyone with some knowledge about pokemon want to use Gumshoos for a reason other than its design. Gamefreak should really do something about shitty stat distributions/movepools because a lot of their work goes to waste because nobody would ever want to use a pokemon with said shitty stats/movepool.

 

[Altissimo]

I guess the hipster in me just wants to use pokemon that not a lot of other people use, but I still draw a fine line between an underappreciated pokemon and a plain horrible pokemon. Gumshoos for example is utterly useless. It can't take damage at all, and it has nothing to make up for it. This is something I really hate. If a pokemon is so bad that it can't be used in-game, said pokemon might as well not exist at all. At no point would anyone with some knowledge about pokemon want to use Gumshoos for a reason other than its design. Gamefreak should really do something about shitty stat distributions/movepools because a lot of their work goes to waste because nobody would ever want to use a pokemon with said shitty stats/movepool.

P sure the point of Pokémon like that is to use them to help you out in the early game (where they are better than some other local options due to early evolution level) and then ditch them when they start to grow useless. It's the only explanation I have.

 

[Heracr055]

DPPt are definitely guilty of having an obscene amount of great Mons available very early, as noted by Codraroll earlier (I think RSE has this issue too). And SM have an issue where you have some awful encounter rates that give the impression that the region's composed of Gumshoos and Pelipper; in addition, I think the most interesting Mons are on Ula'ula Island, which deters me from 'wasting time' with most Mons elsewhere, or forces me to grind a lot when I get there (not fun in late game). So why don't we consider which game has the best availability throughout?
I had a failed Nuzlocke in Black 2 a few months ago and I feel the distribution of Mons was more uniform instead of having an overwhelming distribution of OP/bad Mons (I concede Florccesy Ranch has good Mons early though). I lost at Mistralton so I'm not sure if this holds true throughout, though. But my point is that having a variety of good/bad choices and reasonable encounter rates made me feel free to use something as random as Sunkern and feel good about it; it comes so early and is such a random choice for an early Mon, I said 'Why not?'. Sorry if this post doesn't make much sense, I just wanted to touch on this while we were talking about Pokemon availability throughout the game and how that might influence who gets used.

 

[stage7_4]

Late game Pokemon getting the short end of the stick has always been a problem, even if they are/become really good. Unless you're specifically saving a slot for them in your team, you'll have you essential core team by the middle of or, at most, 2/3rd way through the game. And even then it's only one or two late game Pokemon you're looking forward to add, all the other late game Pokemon are out of luck. Especially for new ones who didn't get advertised so we weren't looking forward to getting them, a sad catch 22 when it comes to the playerbase wanting some new Pokemon to be kept surprise but they aren't early route Pokemon.

I suppose a solution would be shoving the first half of the game with the Pokemon that GF would predict players would like and having the second half be kind of barren except for niche Pokemon to fill out any gaps the core party may have, but that itself presents problems. Now you essentially assured late Pokemon will probably never see battle, also with so many good options early on it could be an overload to the player.

So, is there a way to solve or at least lessen this problem? Here are some thoughts I've had:

1. Reserve Pokemon

For a long time it's been 6 Pokemon on our party. This is a reasonable number, with careful planning it allows you to cover wide variety of types, create strategies and team synergy, but at the same time leaves gaps so that the game could throw you a curve ball you weren't expecting. But, as we discussed, these six slots get filled up fast. If there's any other Pokemon you want to train you're going to have to run back to the nearest PC and switch out, so most of the time players stick to a core 6 (early on they may use a temporary party member to help them for early challenges, but they get switched out once they're job is done or the Pokemon you want becomes available). So, what if we were given a way to carry some extra Pokemon with us? I AM NOT SUGGESTING EXPANDING THE BATTLING PARTY. What I'm more suggesting is that maybe give us 6 "active slots" and then like 3 or 4 "reserve slots". How it'll work is when you enter a battle (or a battling challenge like a Gym, Trial, Pokemon League, or Battle Facility) only the Pokemon in your 6 "active slots" can be chosen from. But outside of battle you can switch Pokemon between the "active slots" and "reserve slots" like you do swapping a Pokemon's place in your party. In addition, if they bring field obstacles back you can use the "reserve Pokemon". I wouldn't suggest for them to get experience from Exp. Share (thereby encouraging players to be constantly switching in and out of the reserve), also obviously they wouldn't heal their HP or status ailments being put on the reserve (though you could still use Potions, curatives, and play with them in that game's version of Pokemon-Amie/Refresh). Finally you'll be given these reserve slots throughout the game, so you could be past the 2/3rds point and be given additional reserve slots. While you could go back and get a Pokemon in the PC you wanted to use, this might also encourage players to use more later game Pokemon they normally wouldn't have now that they got the extra room in their party.

2. Force Constant Switching

This is a little bit more difficult, especially it'll mean challenging the players (LE GASP!). Simply put, you shouldn't be able to stroll into a battling challenge like a Gym or Trial and be able to just clear it with your core team. NO! The challenge in there should be difficult enough that if you want to beat it you'll have to raise some of your other Pokemon to help you get through. This could be done in a few ways.

• First, not letting you leave until you complete it/lose/give up and gaining no experience until completing the challenge. While Trials do this, with Gyms you were always able to leave which, while obviously trainers giving themselves a challenge wouldn't do as it cheapens the experience, did suck out the challenge just knowing you could do it (and since the trainers don't reset you'd have an easier time through repeat). But in order to do that the trainers can't give out experience upon beating them, which might not be a bad idea. Yeah, some use the additional experience as training, but then again you should already be able to take on the challenge upon entering it. Course would be cheap to rob you of that experience so instead the experience is just held until completing the challenge and then applied to your Pokemon (it'll feel like those auto level ups you get after beating bosses in other RPGs). Also there is precedence for it, in the Colosseum games a Shadow Pokemon did not get any of the experience it earned until purified.
  
• Second is having additional trainers in the vicinity who not only use Pokemon of the boss's type but also have those who don't. Have other trainers, maybe other challenge takers or staff of the boss assigned to do this, who's team is varied in a way that you should be using the types that would be most effective against the vicinity's type by giving other types difficult times. And the boss shouldn't be a slack either, if anything their team should be made to not only show the strength of their specialty but also counter your counters. Maybe have them use a strategy the player has to work around. They could even take it a few steps further: giving them Pokemon not normally available (though GF could just shove that Pokemon somewhere just so the boss could use it) and having their strategy start working out of the gate. What do I mean by the a latter? Well if the boss's strategy involves weather, have it so the weather is active as you enter the battle and keeps going unless changed by the player. Boss uses slow Pokemon? The room you're in just so happens to emit an effect similar to Trick Room! They could even have ways for the boss to boost their Pokemon's stats for free, you know, like Totem Pokemon & Mother Beast Lusamine.
• Finally, and maybe the most controversial suggestion: level caps. Whether in the challenge itself or adding it as a main gameplay mechanic, have it so your can only go through the challenge with your Pokemon at a max level... and then have the additional trainers be at/near that max level and the boss have their Pokemon ABOVE it. Evening the level field would mean type advantage means more than ever, especially if the opponent's Pokemon is above your level. If they just have it so the challenge lowers your Pokemon's levels, it'll be no different than going through a Battle Facility or participating in an online competitions (imagine, the game actually preparing players for the post game/meta scene). If they make it a major gameplay mechanic, they can make beating the Trail or Gym feel even more epic as that'll mean raising your level cap! Now the latter would need additional work to make it work (like gaining experience after reaching max), but that's why this is a controversial suggestion. Also a lot of younger players rely on over leveling to help them win, so making sure they can get through would be another design obstacle (maybe implementing an Easy, Medium, and Hard difficulty?).

That all said and back on track, the downside to this is you can't really get a strong connection with the Pokemon in your party as your constant switching them out to prepare for the next challenge. You'll also need to know what the next challenge is to prepare for it which would hint to being railroaded and maybe being given info you'd otherwise would have to be a surprise like the next challenge's type. But that leads me to my final thought.

3. Open World

Or at least close to it. The problem we keep bringing up is filling the team early on and thus no room for the later Pokemon. Pokemon is a linear game, so what this actually means is you fill your team on the early locations you have access to while later location's Pokemon go often unused. The problem is more you just don't have access to these Pokemon early on. So, why not make it so you can? Have it so that from the start a majority of the region is open, maybe you can visit every single major town/city and their connecting routes before challenging the Gym/Trial. I saved this for last as it would involve a MASSIVE redesign of how progression is done in the Pokemon games, but at the same time maybe it's the biggest that could be the most helpful (I mean, look how this really brought new life into the Zelda series with Breath of the Wild).
Sticking to the Pokemon, doing this could make most of the Dex available from the start, you just need to travel to that location the Pokemon is which can be done before challenging any Gyms/Trials or story progression. Or maybe plan your own route, you decide which Pokemon are available to get from the start and will have an option to catch (but probably not) later. Also it's not like there won't be any new Pokemon or stronger wild Pokemon later, as you beat Gyms/Trials you get access to new locations, maybe one off places or shortcut routes/tunnels, which will have their own Pokemon and be at higher levels so you have a place to grind.
Obviously going open world would have other problems to address like story progression (though that can be solved using event flags, locking certain locations off until you're ready for the player to go there, and maybe scaling the levels and moves of the antagonists) and how NPC trainer battles would work (overleveling would be an issue (though I point back to my suggestion of level caps), and you'd need more to show up or have ones beaten to become stronger to help the player get their Pokemon leveled up). But right now I'm just focusing mainly on the topic at hand.

On a final thought, this could be yet another reason why Nuzlockes are interesting. Nuzlockes limit the Pokemon you can use (and makes it so you can lose a Pokemon permanently) so in those playthroughs its more likely a later route Pokemon might be given a chance to battle where in a normal playthrough you'd probably have a trained Pokemon that can do the job already. Granted in Nuzlockes more than ever would you want a core team, but those deaths can sometimes hit you out of nowhere and now you find yourself with an open team slot and you're in the late game and you may not want to grind up the low leveled Pokemon in the PC...

I agree with you on the Nuzlocke sentiment, as part of the fun for me is getting attached to pokemon I'd otherwise never pick up. Swalot in Emerald, Sleep Powder + Dream Eater + Compound Eyes Butterfree in LeafGreen, list goes on. Who even remembers Swalot?

While a Breath of the Wild + Pokemon mash up sounds enticing, I think we should first look closer to home and discuss how other 'mon series keep balance between early and late game monsters. Since this is getting off topic I'll do it in hide tabs though:

gera gera po gera gera po

Those yokai sure make life awry. Remember two years ago when people were seriously thinking this series would kill pokemon? Good times.

The games really aren't half bad though, and they have a different take on competitive balance that Pokemon could learn from.

1. Ranks. Bascially, Yokai are organized by ranks E to S and unlocked (mostly... see point #2) by story missions that rank up your Yokai watch. Can't find the B-ranks until you get a B-rank watch. While statistically higher ranked yokai are stronger than their low ranking cousins, that doesn't mean they are "better."

For official battles there are limits as to how many Yokai of a certain rank can be on your 6 'mon team: two S and two A rank Yokai only. So if you want to fight your friends (and a few in-game challenges), you need to keep some B rank and lower Yokai in your team. Also, lower rank yokai can usually equip more than one item (typically most yokai can only use one piece of equipment, but a lot of E-rank's can equip two), and there are several pieces of equipment that greatly benefit D and E rank Yokai (most equipment has drawbacks, like increases speed but lowers defense. Species or rank specific equipment has no drawbacks, and often better stat boosts). Jibanyan is your Rank D starter, but gets enough unique equipment to keep up with post-game yokai (although this is general for all cat yokai, this series really has a thing for cats).

There's also the loafing mechanic, where randomly a yokai will skip their action to loaf around. While training a yokai will decrease the chance of it happening, lower ranked yokai have much lower chances of loafing than higher ranked yokai (and can be trained to lower this chance much more than higher ranks). So even if you don't do official battles, there is a drawback to using a full team of S-rank yokai... unless you get Kruncha who removes the loafing mechanic entirely. He's pretty broken.

Lastly, lower rank yokai are likely to evolve into higher forms (either through level-up or fusion) while high level yokai are probably in their final forms. Giving more incentive to hang on to some of the old guard once the higher ranks become available.

2. The Crank-a-kai. Yokai has a very strong luck element, one that is frustrating but fair (in that it hinders you as much as it helps). The crank-a-kai is the embodiment of this, as you can use coins collected in-game (or through QR codes) to have a chance to win yokai from the machine, even higher ranks or legendary yokai. You can do this from nearly the beginning of the game, meaning that with enough luck you could get some post-game Yokai before the first boss.

The catch is they are all level 1, but this doesn't mean much in the beginning (and Yokai has several instances of non-combat EXP). So in theory you do have access to almost all Yokai from the word go with the limiting action being your luck (you can't soft reset for better cranks either, the reward is generated as soon as you get the coin). So you could get that Kruncha and proceed to ignore the loafing mechanic for the entirety of the game.

Yokai watch certainly has flaws (recruiting Yokai is teeth gnashingly painful, especially without Shmoopie, and all the before mention luck mechanics), and even these mechanics don't entirely save low rank Yokai from the high-rank's. But they did attempt to balance it so we should take notes.

Gera gera po, gera gera po.

you will never see it coming

Okay yeah, way to dig deep by plugging your new obsession. But the Megaten series (including the Persona sub series) is the very very first 'mon capturing game and predates Pokemon so we should respect our elders.

The Persona approach to balancing the demons is simple: don't get attached.

There is only one rule, no summoning demons above your own level. Meaning your progress is only hindered by yourself, which is a wall to be sure but a different kind of wall than a story enforced one. It makes it feel like I'm the only one preventing me from summoning Satan, not the game itself (yes, you read that right). It's the illusion that if I work hard I too can summon the dark lord and subjugate him to my will.

But in practice one thing you will notice in Persona games is that leveling up personas (not the player) is slower than a snail on flypaper. You might get 1 or 2 level ups out of hours of gameplay, if even that. Also, there's not much incentive to train your personas. They might have two hidden moves learned by leveling up but after that there's nothing more.

This way, the game subtle sets up the player to constantly discard and draw new personas, usually by fusing two or three of them into a much stronger one. Fusion will carry over some moves and abilities from the ingredients, so any effort put into training a persona isn't wasted. Fusion also bestows an initial experience bonus upon the result, usually teaching the persona all their level-up moves at once (it's effectiveness is based on Social Links but that's not necessary for discussion)

These mechanics combined create this sort of "competency window" where almost all personas are useful for a part of the game but are meant to be eventually discarded. You can't touch the higher stuff until you level-up so you have to use the early game demons. But in reverse there's no incentive for hanging on to low-level personas, and there are tons of bonuses from fusion. And overall there's no penalty for experimentation, as fusion will carry over any effort put into raising a persona.

This of course works well until hitting a brick wall around end-game, since with nothing higher to reach for you are stuck with only using the top-tier personas. Using anything other than personas like Yoshitsune, Trumpeter, Lucifer, and Alice is almost a self-imposed challenge (Atlas games get off on our tears). But for 90% of the game the system works, and the player will use a wide variety of personas over the course of the game.

So get used to fusing away your darling that carried you through a tough boss. Plus, it's not like fusion actually hurts them, right?

Oh my.

It is interesting to think about how to balance early and late game pokemon, and compare it to how other games handle it. Because I feel there is a solution without compromising the Pokemon game mechanics too much.

I just haven't thought of anything yet.

 

[Altissimo]

I also wonder if some Pokémon aren't meant to be used, but are in the game because you're supposed to be able to have to search for them for Pokédex completion. Like Clamperl and its evolutions. I wonder if they don't just have a different general reason for their existence.

 

[Mr. Querty]

Kind of a derail from the Obvious Choice thing Codraroll brought up, but I found it interesting that in Sinnoh, both of the Dawn Stone evos (Froslass and Gallade) were both more used than their counterparts. Although Glalie might not have much of a draw, Gardevoir is quite a powerful Psychic-type in its own right, and given that the Kirlia you've been slaving over for all this time has a lot of Psychic-type special STAB Gardevoir might be of more immediate use. There's probably a flaw in that reasoning though...

Also interesting is that in those same stats, Togekiss is neither near the top nor the bottom despite being an early-game egg (Lucario, by contrast, is a late game Egg that requires a happiness evo and a lot of babying)

I think it it more out of novelty factor. Gardevoir was already a popular mon to use last generation, and people generally want to try something new when they go from game to game. I think that is also part of the reasoning why there was a surge in Bellossom, Miltank, Hitmontop compared to their counterparts in Gen II, the newer Eeveelutions are much more popular in their initial games, and much of the more popular pokemon ended up originating from their respective games.

 

[Mova]

Even though they're not quite broken in-game, I have found quite a lot of use in a Mudsdale that wielded Own Tempo during Alola's campaign. I've heard many good things about using Bewear in the tier list thread as well, but I could never find one with Fluffy until I beat the story. Fluffy's quite useful in Alola due to the rarity of Fire-types there. Lack of Fire-types in a game? SINNOH CONFIRMED

 

[Yunos senpai]

I like to use bad or forgotten pokemon. I love using pokemon from NU and PU to make my run harder! I really like oricorio because of its gimmicks and I like regular raticate because it's hard to use.

 

[Tenebricite]

I like to use pokemon based off their design/story, at least in casual in game play, which I never do anymore. When I actually played ingame, my favorites were Scyther and Seviper.

Come to think of it, I actually used Shuckle on one of my HGSS play-throughs many years ago. I believe it was the one someone could trade to you on that beach city, and using it on an actual play-through was an interesting experience. Has anyone else tried this?

 

[Giratina93]

Fun to use pokemon... For me, it boils down to three categories primarily:

1. Is the pokemon something I would call reliable and consistent? Now, we all know Chikorita sucks ass in Gen 2 (and gen 4 to a lesser extent), but it's pretty reliable all things considered. It gets an early Razor Leaf and Reflect, solid sustain in later generations, and thanks to its bulk it doesn't need to be healed that much (More on that later). If I need it to do something, it will almost always get it done, and maintain enough power to remain a decent threat. Mons like Gyarados and Gardevoir may start off sucky, but when they fully evolve, they are always dominating powerhouses that never fail me. Using them is not an exorcise in futility and frustration... like gen 2 Noctowl who is NOT reliable and consistent by any means, or Slaking, who if it fails to get a kill (and believe me, it can and will happen), you're basically going to lose that mon.

2. Is it a pain in the ass to evolve? Once again, looking back at Gyarados and Gardevoir. Ralts and Magikarp may suck, but at least they evolve early enough, and get more and more powerful pretty quickly. Heck, Kirlia can hold its own reasonably enough, as can a pseudo-legendary like Shelgon or Pupitar, if the game they're in isn't horribly skewed against them (coughUSUMcough). But then you get to shit like the gen 6 dragons and almost everything in gen 5, where it takes far too long babying a stage 1 mon to the high 30's AT LEAST before they finally evolve. I tried to use a Klinklang in Ultrasun... and it was a miserable experience being stuck with a base bitch Klink until lv. 38, with its best STAB being the inaccurate Gear Grind, and nothing better to use. But the award for this kind of BS goes to Noibat, who is as weak as a Zubat, and doesn't evolve until LEVEL 48. I'm sorry, but that is an inexcusable cruel prank, and murders any incentive to ever try that pokemon again. Nevermind Noivern itself isn't even that strong, just stupidly fast.

3. Is it a momentum sink? What I mean by this is, does it take forever and a day just to level up, and/or does it require constant healing after almost every battle? This is one of the reasons I don't like using slow mons like Wishiwashi or Snorlax. Sure, they hit stupidly hard, but they'r ealways moving last, so after every fight they are injured, and while you may go, "Oh, they're bulky enough to go a few fights without potions", all it takes is a random crit bringing your mon down from 60-70% to ZERO to entomb into your mind to always have your mons at max HP. Slow experience gainers also grind level progression to a halt, with Gible being a notorious example, and Growlithe in G/S/C, especially in an end-game where the only opponents left are at least ten levels below you and offer up paltry experience anyways.

Now, with the advent of the Exp. Broke in gen 6 and beyond, these are mitigated to an extent. Where once I was restricted to six mons that all had to pull their weight equally, now I can run a team of 15-21 mons, and more than a few of those can be whatever I want and not necessarily long term old faithfuls. Slow experience gain still sucks, but now it's easier than ever to have a mon that needs to be babied just sit and siphon off exp until it's ready to join in the fun, or for early mons like Butterfree and Beedrill to do their work early on, then retire to let the more fit crowd take over. It slows in-game progression down to a sluggish grind, but it's probably the most fun I've had with Pokemon in a long time to do massive rotation style teams like this.

 

[cityscapes]

let me talk about my boy tynamo

it's gotten a bit of flak earlier in this thread because of the fact that you have to train it up a bunch to make it usable. but back in the day when i was playing through bw, tynamo was like the coolest thing ever.

it was available mid game, in chargestone cave, and while it was on the weaker end of things it could still somewhat hold its own with spark and charge beam.

from a gameplay perspective, it's not really worth it to get, because tynamo not only takes a few levels before it reaches its second stage, which you need to beat the sixth gym, but is also extremely rare (2%, unless you go down to the lowest level where it's 8%).

but these factors are exactly what made it so appealing to me back when i played through the game. tynamo was cool. it was like a pseudo legendary, but instead of being bad throughout the game, it was only bad before level 39, when it evolved. it looked pretty basic, but its evolutions had some of the most awesome designs in the game. eelektross could pack a punch with its high attack, and it had enough bulk to take a few hits. and the whole line had no weaknesses!!! how cool is that?

basically, i think tynamo is an example of a rare/powerful pokemon done right. it takes a lot of effort to find (although it's so cool when you do!) and train, but the payoff is very good, plus you can use eelektross before the very end of the game.

there's also another concept of why things are fun to use in game: rarity. i think this one comes up less because there aren't many rare mons in the game, but the basic premise is that lillipup vs lillipup battles get boring pretty quickly. it feels good to use something that almost no one else in the game uses. this is one of the reasons why trading in mons you can't normally find in-game can be fun. it's also, in my opinion, part of what gives starters their unique charm.

 

[Tenebricite]

let me talk about my boy tynamo

it's gotten a bit of flak earlier in this thread because of the fact that you have to train it up a bunch to make it usable. but back in the day when i was playing through bw, tynamo was like the coolest thing ever.

it was available mid game, in chargestone cave, and while it was on the weaker end of things it could still somewhat hold its own with spark and charge beam.

from a gameplay perspective, it's not really worth it to get, because tynamo not only takes a few levels before it reaches its second stage, which you need to beat the sixth gym, but is also extremely rare (2%, unless you go down to the lowest level where it's 8%).

but these factors are exactly what made it so appealing to me back when i played through the game. tynamo was cool. it was like a pseudo legendary, but instead of being bad throughout the game, it was only bad before level 39, when it evolved. it looked pretty basic, but its evolutions had some of the most awesome designs in the game. eelektross could pack a punch with its high attack, and it had enough bulk to take a few hits. and the whole line had no weaknesses!!! how cool is that?

basically, i think tynamo is an example of a rare/powerful pokemon done right. it takes a lot of effort to find (although it's so cool when you do!) and train, but the payoff is very good, plus you can use eelektross before the very end of the game.

there's also another concept of why things are fun to use in game: rarity. i think this one comes up less because there aren't many rare mons in the game, but the basic premise is that lillipup vs lillipup battles get boring pretty quickly. it feels good to use something that almost no one else in the game uses. this is one of the reasons why trading in mons you can't normally find in-game can be fun. it's also, in my opinion, part of what gives starters their unique charm.

I agree! When I used to play ingame I trained up a tynamo and it was worth it all the way. Tynamo itself was an interesting little thing to use, and I found the idea of a cute, electric fish really appealing. After evolving it became even better, as an electric eel was a really cool and unique concept that hadn't been used up until bw. Also, Eelektross's shiny form was good as it made it look more natural.

 

[Punchshroom]

Allow me to relay the tale of one of the reasons Breloom is my favorite mon.

Back in RSE, I got a fairly unassuming mon in Shroomish. It was bulky and had moves like Leech Seed, Stun Spore, and Mega Drain to complement it. It did this effectively, and for a while I relied on it to take on foes that could overpower my other mons or were too bulky to take down with brute force.

Then it evolved, and right away I noticed a completely drastic shift in its playstyle, now becoming this absolute unit monster that killed everything in its path. Now the concept of this isn't new (Gyarados), but unlike Magikarp, Shroomish itself proved useful, so I was able to enjoy both stages of the evolution line despite the complete overhaul in their playstyle. Some of the other mons I can see this applied to would be Larvesta and Zweilous, but those two are plagued with near-endgame or even postgame availability and disgustingly late evolution levels, which dampens the enjoyment.

 

[TPP]

Honestly this thread looks like a fun place to discuss the mons we've used in the past in game while growing up, and I'm thankful for that. I was looking at the poll results from a post from the previous page while writing this up.

If I were to name a few factors as to what I think makes a mon popular (from before getting into the competitive pokemon scene or in other words as as a kid that grew up playing the games):

- If it evolves (preferably 3 stages): The starters were fun to use because you could see them grow when they evolved and it was always fun evolving them and getting a powerful looking pokemon at the end. Evolving twice might have made kids think that stage 3 pokemon were better than stage 2 mons (like Pidgeot vs. Fearow) and led to a higher desire to use pokemon that evolved more. Ampharos and Luxray and Staraptor kind of fit this category too (ignoring the fact how good they are once they're fully evolved), but having 3 mons that evolve twice sorta feels like having 3 starters in a way, and it made it more fun to see them all evolve over time.

- Typing: Everyone likes having a fire, a water, a grass, a flying and sometimes an electric type too. You get your starter and then it's easy to want mons to compensate for the starters you couldn't choose, not to mention they do well as a trio in terms of coverage. Flying types are always early and generally just really helpful and for the most part they're pretty solid (Swellow and Staraptor are 2 that are hard to not pick up because they're great and they're available early and they get Wing Attack early as well).

- Evolution methods/Availability: Trading in particular is what I had in mind for this one, as I was planning on mentioning how a lot of people don't go with something like Golem as a rock type. Back in the day, it was harder to find a friend to trade with and that usually meant not being able to use mons that evolve by trading, and for stuff like Golem and Machamp, it made it harder to want to use them since they would never be fully evolved. It's easy to want to use mons that are fully evolved by something like 36, as you'll still be fighting gyms and have time to level up moves and have them to help out against gym leaders and bosses. The 2 exceptions for this come to mind with Alakazam and Gengar, as Abra you can get early in Red/Blue and Gastly is in Lavender town, and their final evolutions are really good and cool.

I know for a fact that in Ruby and Sapphire, Feebas was insanely hard to evolve since you had to max out its beauty using pokeblocks, and you could only give it a limited amount, which would result in something I had with a Feebas (which was already hard to find I think) that couldn't evolve. That and getting people to do non plot related stuff like contests/pokeblocks when it's not necessary might've discouraged some people from bothering with that, as getting pokeblocks specifically for beauty wasn't easy as well. I love Milotic, but before the prism scale, it was just really hard to obtain and something I'd never pick up. Friendship was also sorta tricky, but it was nice as well since most of the time it doesn't take forever if you're able to use that mon for a while and have it still put in work (something like Golbat and not Togetic).

The last part of this section is gonna be about the levels at which a mon evolves at. As mentioned before, something around 30-40 for the fully evolved mon is convenient if the mon is able to put in reasonable work until then. There's also cases where the final evolution is just really worth it like with Dragonite and Tyranitar (not to mention they're already popular to start out with) and it's cool having them. For pseudo legendaries at the least, the reward is worth the time, but for other mons (like some in BW), it's not the same with stuff like Rufflet evolving at 54 and Deino evolving at 50 and then 64 (which at that point is right around the E4 and champion level, and to not have a fully evolved mon by then is rough since you are most likely facing off against other fully evolved mons by then.

- Move list: This one is sorta self explanatory, and basically if you get good/decent stab options, then you're probably fine. This is one area the starters usually have covered well and makes them easier to use. In Diamond and Pearl (not Platinum where they expanded the pokedex) I think the only 2 fire types you could get were Infernape and Rapidash, and Ponyta was stuck with Ember and Fire Spin until level 38, at which it got Fire Blast. It got Flare Blitz later, but that was at 58 (not to mention it evolves at 40), which would be around the level you fight the Elite 4, at which point you really do want good moves by then. Infernape on the other hand at least had Flame Wheel for most of the game and had Close Combat, which made it a much more convenient option to pick. This also makes it easy to explain why Torterra works out, as a ground type that levels up Earthquake at level 32 is insanely good considering how other ground mons like Garchomp don't even get it until you get the TM for Earthquake, which is typically late in the game. This category also makes it easier to want to go with Typhlosion in Gen 2 or HGSS since it gets access to Flamethrower (and Lava Plume in Gen 4), both of which are good with it's decent special attack stat.

- If it was in the anime: This one might seem odd, but as a kid that watched the anime alongside playing the games, it's easy to say that I was motivated/geared towards using some of the mons from the anime that looked cool. Ash having a Charizard and a Butterfree might've had an impact (and might explain why so many more people go Butterfree over Beedrill), and another example would be Lucario. Lucario got his own movie and me personally I loved it and thought it was a really cool mon from the start and jumped at the chance to get one. Dragonite also had plenty of good moments to be treated as this almighty pokemon that always looked powerful. This category isn't super important, but it's more of a possible reason behind the popularity of some mons.

- Design: This one is hard to describe since everyone has a different preference for what they like, but if there's any evidence that it matters, it would be how Rowlett/Decidueye had 50% of people choosing it as a starter (compared to Incineroar and Primarina who both had ~30%), but it also ended up as the top mon in Alola. People loved Rowlett as soon as they saw it and Greninja is another example that ended up as the top mon in Gen 6.

I don't wanna make this too long, so I'll end with this:

Image

If you look at the top pokemon by type for Sinnoh (which excludes the starters and doesn't count normal + flying types under normal), you'll see that pretty much every pokemon in the top category is a really good or strong mon, except for one. Idk how he didn't make the top 10, but everyone knows that in DPP, the real MVP of those games is none other than Bibarel. I'm glad to see that he and Linoone (for Gen 3) made the list since those 2 are the best HM slaves for those games, and they truly do help out with dealing with having to use HM's that we wouldn't want on our main party members.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

I tend to be on the "I like using this BECAUSE its hard to use" train:

There are some notable cases of this that I've actually used in playthroughs before. Gen 1 Magmar, Octillery, Crabominable, Magcargo, Abomasnow, and Lickilicky are prime examples of this (and if you want to count ROM hacks, I'm using a Slaking in an Emerald hack). All of these mons rank pretty low in the tier lists for the games that I used them in (ORAS Magcargo isn't nearly as abysmal as RSE Magcargo but IIRC its still like C tier), but the high risk factor involved makes them enjoyable to use in-game for me.

That being said, there are some mons I refuse to use in-game, generally due to being too weak even for my liking. (IE: Spinda, Luvdisc, Ledian, Delibird)

 

[Nelson Tangela]

For me it has always been a combination of design and damage output.

If I don't like the design of the final stage then I'd rather use something else.
Ugly first or middle stages are only temporary and not as bad to me.

The other factor is damage output and I'd include the movepool here.
There are many Pokémon that I like design-wise, but if they are something extremely passive like Umbreon I won't enjoy using them in-game very much.

 

[Miss Cottonee]

I know for a fact that in Ruby and Sapphire, Feebas was insanely hard to evolve since you had to max out its beauty using pokeblocks, and you could only give it a limited amount, which would result in something I had with a Feebas (which was already hard to find I think) that couldn't evolve. That and getting people to do non plot related stuff like contests/pokeblocks when it's not necessary might've discouraged some people from bothering with that, as getting pokeblocks specifically for beauty wasn't easy as well.

Hmm, I cannot really agree with this, though. ^^ Finding Feebas was a pain, but maxing out its Beauty wasn't. The last time I evolved a Feebas I just blended every Chesto, Oran, Bluk and Kelpsy berry I saved up (because of depleted in-game batteries I couldn't grow any berries) and there wasn't any problem. I might have gotten an advantage with a modest Feebas, but I'm not sure if that was her nature. Well anyway, I've always liked the contests in RSE, so maybe that's why I already knew how to do that effectively.

Fun to use pokemon... For me, it boils down to three categories primarily:

1. Is the pokemon something I would call reliable and consistent? Now, we all know Chikorita sucks ass in Gen 2 (and gen 4 to a lesser extent), but it's pretty reliable all things considered.

I have to agree, I always let my Bayleef hold an everstone and didn't run into problems either. So in my view, that category can be pretty wide. :)

And I'm not saying that low availability is a problem for every Pokémon that possesses that trait. I had a friend use Dhelmise on her first playthrough of Moon, and I've used Absol on playthroughs of Hoenn despite it not showing up until around the 6th gym. But in the case of Togekiss it requires painful babying, whereas Absol and Dhelmise do not.

I don't prefer it either, but I always found it useful getting team members along the way, instead of getting them quickly after another. Your example of Absol, which you can get before the 6th gym, still sound good to me!

That being said, there are some mons I refuse to use in-game, generally due to being too weak even for my liking. (IE: Spinda, Luvdisc, Ledian, Delibird)

I started to like Luvdisc more and more, and that makes me more inclined to give it a place in a team one time! In such cases, I'll just see if I can make it work somehow. Luvdisc probably won't show up in big fights like the Elite Four, but that doesn't prevent me from taking it into my team.

I think I'm not going to add something enlightening here. For me, I just like to use Pokémon I like. What makes it fun really boils down to "just playing with my favourites and/or Pokémon I'm somehow interested in". Them being present in my team make it fun, regardless of other things. ^^ Although, of course, the fun can be augmented by the different factors others have stated already!

 

[Luigifan]

The only 'Mons I've raised up to level 100 are Blaziken and Altaria.