Serious What should we do about bullying?

[Cresselia~~]

(Oh so sad, the other thread is locked)

I wonder what in general, do you think, should be done to bullying?
I read somewhere else that most of us people on Smogon had been bullied some point in our life.
===========================

Just starting you off,
In my case, the psychologists told me to change as well, their reason was because it was easier to change me than to change them.
The school tried to have serious meetings with specific bullies, but they worsened the situation because they became more vigorous after being scolded by the teachers.

I personally do not agree with the psychologists' way. I think it was bull. They told me to ignore them, because it was the reaction that made them happy. I tried ignoring them, but then they tried and tried and tried to make me have reaction, it was just awful.

I didn't grow over it until I find how Japanese people teach their kids-- be strong and allow these bullies to toughen your endurance. Fight back when need to, etc.
I find this helpful.

 

[_Tonks_]

I don't think there's anything we really " stop " it. We just need to talk to kids, and generally everyone about respecting and accepting everyone, regardless of their disabilities or interests, likes or dislikes. We just need to talk to them, explain to them, show them that bad shit can happen, and has happened. I think people who are bullied have two options. Grow from it, don't let it get them negatively. Let it teach them to deal with stress, help them open up to the bad shit that will happen to them in life. Option 2 is to have them just report it, don't "Feed the trolls", and just let someone know. Better to let a parent know then anyone else. I found that telling the school really doesn't help. When I was bullied and told they school, they suggest I get home schooled and implied that I was a distraction to the other students, and that being in a wheel chair was the problem, not the asshole kids who thought it was funny for some reason.
I just think it's bullshit, that they tell people who are bullied that they're wrong, that they need to change their lives to fit in with the assholes. No one has the balls to discipline a kid when they do something bad, and no one has the balls to teach their kid not to be a complete asshole.

 

[Celever]

Get stricter with kids.

For example, let's say a dangerous assault occurs between adults. That's about 1/2 year(s) in prison, right? Well with a child, let's just give them 1/2 month(s) in isolation, but give them school work to do and stuff. Same occurs with vandalism etc.. I know that people think you should be nice to kids but honestly that does no favours to them. (Before you ask I'm not into corporal punishment or anything like that I'm just saying). People say the more you punish a child over something the more they do it. This is actually good. The less you punish a child, the more they can get away with so the craftier and meaner some get. If you're wondering this hasn't been beaten into me as my parents are very much hands-off, I just got bullied rather than was a bully so any chance of mean spirits I had were pretty much suppressed by the constant trauma for a young child lol.

(I'm not a sadist I swear! :()

 

[scene]

I read somewhere else that most of us people on Smogon had been bullied some point in our life.

I've never been even close to bullied and I'm pretty sure most people here haven't either, to be honest.

 

[Prof_Clayton]

Honestly bullies are needed. Or kids grow up spoiled and rotten. While extreme bullies are unnecessary, some form of it is needed to teach kids to stand up for themselves.
I mean, if you remove bullies, might as well remove every other challenge a kid might face because you're just setting them up for failure.

EDIT:And yeah, that came out really wrong, explanation below.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

I can't believe anyone would say a lack of bullying sets a child up for failure.

 

[Prof_Clayton]

I'm not trying to say that, although my post comes off a little weird.
I do firmly hate most bullies and what they do, it can be very cruel sometimes.
But people making bullying nonexistant wouldn't be ideal either. Have you seen young kids today? Some run around doing whatever they want because nobody stops them. Some weaker kids also need partial bullies; without a reason to become stronger or to stand up for themself, some can't handle the challenges they face in the future(nothing too mean but just a little). By learning how to deal with problems early in life, you can be better prepared for your future.
But yes, I agree now, poor choice of wording there. .___.
I meant to post that to the effect of, if you remove bullies completely you are just not allowing your kids to learn how to fully survive, prosper and be successful when facing challenges in life, which could set some up for failure in the future in that they will be faced with issues and not have learned how to solve problems. If parents remove bullies from school, they'll still see them when they grow up and leave home. Basically, find a happy medium between bullying and over protection.

 

[Relados]

A big question to ask is if the kid brought bad attention to himself, by being an asshole to others through excessive rudeness or whatnot. It doesn't justify the act of bullying even if that's true, and it can definitely happen without provocation, and I wouldn't say it's the victim's fault at all, but there are occasions where the victim's behavior might need to be addressed for a long-term solution.

 

[Moneyminty]

Im tired of people complaining about bullies. Muhammad Ali used to get bullied, wanna know what he did? Joined boxing training camps and started whooping ass. You can choose whether you are bullied or not. If you are physically being bullied, move away from the situation, try to talk it out, or whoop ass. If its emotionally, learn to not give a fuck. Cold world, no snuggie tho.

 

[Reverb]

While I generally think people are too sensitive, I certainly do not condone bullying. Frankly, the best way to deal with bullying is through education, since generally, bullies do not realize how harmful their behavior is to their peers. I would make it a criminal matter, since it is so common amongst kids. Hell, I've been on both sides of that coin, as have most people. With that being said, kids who have issues with bullies should tell an adult. Another good strategy is to have good comebacks. Frankly, bullies do not fare well against those who can outwit them.

 

[Limi]

Im tired of people complaining about bullies. Muhammad Ali used to get bullied, wanna know what he did? Joined boxing training camps and started whooping ass. You can choose whether you are bullied or not. If you are physically being bullied, move away from the situation, try to talk it out, or whoop ass. If its emotionally, learn to not give a fuck. Cold world, no snuggie tho.

Yeah, we should really weed out all those oversensitive pussies and stick them in boot camps to MAN UP and become worthwhile contributors to society. Really guys, stop attention whoring with your stupid sappy emotions, you really need to learn how to handle yourself in PUBLIC, geez!

Seriously, what issue do you take with people who DARE be sensitive and cause others the insufferable burden of having to be considerate? I'm not talking to an extreme here, just kids who are generally somewhat impressionable and bad at dealing with conflict. Honestly, I don't think that kind of attitude (namely yours) is indicative of complete maturity, security and self-assuredness, either. It won't hurt you to be a bit more accepting of others rather than shrugging them off as weak and needy. "Cold world" my ass, your personal world is as cold as you make it, and unless you're like the supreme grandmaster at avoiding any kind of emotional turmoil ever in your life, you're going to be THANKFUL to have those kinds of people around listening to you when you need it.
This is not even touching the point that bullying/being bullied is a lopsided relationship of power and that many kids are scared shitless to talk back and feeling really helpless when there are awesome people like you supporting them.

Wow, this post was considerably more angry in its first draft, but I guess I learned how to cool it down? Huh, so I might actually only cry one time in bed tonight in hopes to once be as strong and resilient as you are. Oh, if it doesn't bother you, of course.

EDIT: It's been 8 months, can you shitlords stop liking this post

 

[Moneyminty]

Yeah, we should really weed out all those oversensitive pussies and stick them in boot camps to MAN UP and become worthwhile contributors to society. Really guys, stop attention whoring with your stupid sappy emotions, you really need to learn how to handle yourself in PUBLIC, geez!

Seriously, what issue do you take with people who DARE be sensitive and cause others the insufferable burden of having to be considerate? I'm not talking to an extreme here, just kids who are generally somewhat impressionable and bad at dealing with conflict. Honestly, I don't think that kind of attitude (namely yours) is indicative of complete maturity, security and self-assuredness, either. It won't hurt you to be a bit more accepting of others rather than shrugging them off as weak and needy. "Cold world" my ass, your personal world is as cold as you make it, and unless you're like the supreme grandmaster at avoiding any kind of emotional turmoil ever in your life, you're going to be THANKFUL to have those kinds of people around listening to you when you need it.
This is not even touching the point that bullying/being bullied is a lopsided relationship of power and that many kids are scared shitless to talk back and feeling really helpless when there are awesome people like you supporting them.

Wow, this post was considerably more angry in its first draft, but I guess I learned how to cool it down? Huh, so I might actually only cry one time in bed tonight in hopes to once be as strong and resilient as you are. Oh, if it doesn't bother you, of course.

Just so you know, the cold world part was a song lyric meant for satire purposes. I agree with you tho, I think

 

[Flechazo]

Having been bullied, I can say that bullying is absolutely horrible. However, that being said, it did make me the person I am today. I will explain this later.

As to what we can do about bullying, I think we all have to answer this question on a personal basis. Though there have been a plethora of anti-bullying laws legislated, we all know that there is only so much the way can do, and it is often ineffective. Also, guidance counselors and psychologists are seldom helpful.

I personally believe that one should not change if his/her behavior does not hurt someone else or because of outer peer pressure. Change will occur naturally as we grow, however, often due to our experiences.

Now, why do bullies bully? There are many answers to this, but one very common one is that they need to attack weak prey in order to make themselves feel better; they need to feed their ego. The OP's psychologist is correct in that you cannot change a person; people can only change themselves. However, that does not mean something should not be done. Simply, the approach has to be different.

Do not change whatever you are being bullied for. That will not work. Bullies will find anything to make fun of. The best answer, honestly, is to fight back. Don't take shit from anyone. If they know that you're serious in defending your personal integrity, they will stand down. It is important to note that fighting back does not always have to be physical, however, even though I took this route (and he stopped immediately afterwards); it can be verbal, legal, arbitrary, etc. But do something. Don't just sit there and take it. It's not worth it.

Being bullied will not make you a stronger person. Standing up for yourself does, because you are worth it.

 

[Age of Kings]

tbh we need less widespread cultural expectations of people having kids. I am so sick of people telling me, "you'll change your mind eventually" when I say I don't want kids. How does this tie into this issue? Because a child's sense of right and wrong isn't entirely autonomous from their parents when they are younger and they pass on their own insecurities to the kidlets. Lots of people simply are not cut out to be parents whether they pass on their own prejudices or they are complicit in their little special snowflake's bullying or just don't care (both of which are not uncommon). Sometimes bullying is a product of abuse or other stress at home. I don't think that people are naturally assholes, there is social conditioning at work: there is a "different" so they react to someone different than them with cruelty. I think that tolerance education needs to be more widespread. I don't think bullying should be criminalized because I don't want another iteration of the "zero tolerance" policy that already punishes the innocent.

Telling an adult is not always helpful. We just had a thread where a school told a little boy to leave his MLP backpack at home, basically telling him what he can and can not like at the cost of social ostracization. There have been plenty of cases of children who have even attempted or have committed suicide because school authorities and parents didn't do enough to stop it or were even complicit in the bullying. Also, as mentioned above, sometimes bullying is a product of abuse and the child does not know how to create a healthy relationship.

Bullying is different from being critical. Constructive criticism is more effective for enacting positive change, to steer people away from unsavory behaviors. Forceful social control is not the right way to go. It is possible to say no, or otherwise give someone feedback that isn't kissing their ass, in a way that isn't rude. If it's something like "I don't like what you're wearing" or "the shows you like are dumb" or something that doesn't really fall under constructive criticism.....well, at that point people should realize to mind their own business.

Fighting back is also not always a valid option because you start at a disadvantageous point, whether from a psychological standpoint (bully/bullied is not an equal relationship; the former may exert control or fear to prevent backlash) or if the bullies outnumber you/have greater social control. Again, it shows a great degree of irresponsibility from adults when kids are given the figurative finger if they need help combating psychological and/or physical abuse from their peers that may result in massive trust issues or depression later down the line.

In the end, idealism and rationality do not really speak to children. I think that parents should be held partially responsible for their dependents and for teaching a message of tolerance from infancy. And before anyone says "QQ the kids can think for themselves", I land squarely in the middle of the nature vs nurture debate. I think they are both equally valid conditions and I don't think one is more responsible than the other, but this also means I think nurture is 50% of the problem.

 

[macle]

I've never been even close to bullied and I'm pretty sure most people here haven't either, to be honest.

bullying only happens if you leave the house sometime in your life

 

[reyscarface]

You either leave school a nice guy, or you stay in the same one long enough to see yourself become the bully

 

[scene]

bullying only happens if you leave the house sometime in your life

I've spent a fraction of the time you have on this site, have no idea who you are and was trying to reply to a point the OP made - easy there mate.

 

[TheFourthChaser]

Maybe if families weren't in such shitty situations and didn't have to work multiple jobs their kids would have less parenting issues which would lead to less bullying problems in general! Yes, I'm very biased.

On a (bit) of a more serious note bullying is pretty complicated and should be dealt with on an individual basis because it sounds impossible to do something on a grand scale and since I don't think there's an "epidemic" nothing really needs to be done on a grand scale in the first place. Different schools will have different situations.

lol god damn scene just fucking wrecked macle

 

[Cresselia~~]

I personally believe that one should not change if his/her behavior does not hurt someone else or because of outer peer pressure. Change will occur naturally as we grow, however, often due to our experiences.

Now, why do bullies bully? There are many answers to this, but one very common one is that they need to attack weak prey in order to make themselves feel better; they need to feed their ego. The OP's psychologist is correct in that you cannot change a person; people can only change themselves. However, that does not mean something should not be done. Simply, the approach has to be different.

Do not change whatever you are being bullied for. That will not work. Bullies will find anything to make fun of. The best answer, honestly, is to fight back. Don't take shit from anyone. If they know that you're serious in defending your personal integrity, they will stand down. It is important to note that fighting back does not always have to be physical, however, even though I took this route (and he stopped immediately afterwards); it can be verbal, legal, arbitrary, etc. But do something. Don't just sit there and take it. It's not worth it.
.

Indeed, especially when most of the "causes" were actually excuses, or a small part of the story.
I think most of the time, you have to be socially inferior/ shy/ not have many friends/ unpopular to begin with, then the one small weird thing gives the bullies an "appropriate excuse" to bully you and it sets off.
Seriously, if you are socially dominant with a lot of friends, then people wouldn't mind your originality. Even if people try to pick on you, you would have a lot of friends to stand up for you.
If you kept being bullied in different places, maybe there's something wrong with your attitudes instead.


I personally think there are several different types of targets (victims):
1. Generic shy, weak kid.
One who is unlikely to fight back and bullying him/ her is unlikely to cause bad consequences.
This type is usually bullied by people establishing their dominance, ie: by vile people.

2. Unpopular weirdo.
Victimized because kids tend to like to exclude people who are different.
People who bully them are being immature.

3. Unpopular kid due to bad attitude/ bad behaviour.
This type of kids find themselves targeted because they weren't nice to people to begin with. They generate hate everywhere and basically when the hate reaches a certain point, the "bullies" (ie: most people of the class) are merely just fighting back because they couldn't tolerate anymore.
This type of "victim" truly needs to change themselves and evaluate what had gone wrong with themselves.

 

[WaterBomb]

Bullying has literally been going on among children (hell, adults too) since the beginning of organized human civilization. It is simply one of the effects of every person being unique and different from one another. Certain people learn that they have X power over others, and they naturally seek to take advantage. In children this happens more frequently because they are naturally immature and have not learned to control their impulses or feel much empathy yet. I was bullied a great deal emotionally growing up because I was a very emotional and sensitive kid, and it sucked a lot. It did, however, teach me valuable lessons about human nature and how to cope with stress. As a result, I believe today I am a much calmer and emotionally intelligent person. I am able to handle higher amounts of stress and adversity, and I firmly believe my experiences with being bullied as a younger person are a major contributing factor.

Now, please do not misunderstand. I am not saying bullying is a good thing. I am not saying we should sit back and allow bullying to just run rampant without any regulation. All I am saying is that all experiences, even negative ones like bullying, teach us valuable lessons in life. I think if we were to focus our energies on teaching people how to extract those lessons from negative experiences, rather than trying to completely prevent the negative experiences in the first place, we would see much more fruitful results.

Honestly, it's incredibly tough to combat emotional/psychological bullying. You can't have an adult walking around with every child everywhere they go, so inevitably there will be times when the child is alone and open to attack. Physical bullying is a little easier to crack down on because it's visible, so efforts can be made to do that.

tl;dr version: focus on educating kids on how to pull the positive life lessons out of bullying and how to cope with stress. This, I think, will yield far better results than constantly scrambling to try to prevent all bullying in the first place. Additionally, though, educate teachers/administrators/other staff on how to spot bullying and do their best to intervene without making the situation worse for the victim.

 

[Othesemo]

I'm not convinced that bullying as a whole is present because of some sort of systematic issue, rather than because of individual assholes. So, to that extent, I suspect that we'd be better served by going after those individual assholes than by holding seminars, giving children positive thinking courses, or otherwise making institutional changes.

Another good strategy is to have good comebacks. Frankly, bullies do not fare well against those who can outwit them.

Seriously though, what if someone calls us a pair o' pathetic peripatetics?

 

[Metal Sonic]

be stronger than the bully.

when the school bully thought that i was a good target that day, he was dead wrong. (hint: i whooped him p. bad)

needless to say i didnt suffer any bully problems for my whole time in school


EDIT: oh, psychological/ emotional bullying. ah. the internet helps you strengthen up for these nonsense, no worries.

 

[Metal Sonic]

Indeed, especially when most of the "causes" were actually excuses, or a small part of the story.
I think most of the time, you have to be socially inferior/ shy/ not have many friends/ unpopular to begin with, then the one small weird thing gives the bullies an "appropriate excuse" to bully you and it sets off.
Seriously, if you are socially dominant with a lot of friends, then people wouldn't mind your originality. Even if people try to pick on you, you would have a lot of friends to stand up for you.
If you kept being bullied in different places, maybe there's something wrong with your attitudes instead.

I agree strongly with this post. Only the "weak" get bullied. Physically weak, or poor attitude? Either way, you can change your situation. Just take a step forth and make a change. I'm not going to type an essay lol, but if you're popular there's no way you'll be a target for bullying, as mentioned above. :)

3. Unpopular kid due to bad attitude/ bad behaviour.
This type of kids find themselves targeted because they weren't nice to people to begin with. They generate hate everywhere and basically when the hate reaches a certain point, the "bullies" (ie: most people of the class) are merely just fighting back because they couldn't tolerate anymore.
This type of "victim" truly needs to change themselves and evaluate what had gone wrong with themselves.

This happens in my school, and I feel no sympathy for these types of victims. Usually, these type of kids could possibly be the bullies in a different time/place/school, but in this type of school that they are currently in, their "victims" are stronger and not going to get pushed around; and they eventually lead a lynch against the *not very nice person*. It's the victims fighting back against the "bully". Except he isn't called a bully now, he's called a general asshole. And eating his just desserts.

 

[WaterBomb]

be stronger than the bully.

when the school bully thought that i was a good target that day, he was dead wrong. (hint: i whooped him p. bad)

needless to say i didnt suffer any bully problems for my whole time in school


EDIT: oh, psychological/ emotional bullying. ah. the internet helps you strengthen up for these nonsense, no worries.

This is easy enough for us to say because we are adults/young adults here and we know this is the solution. For a child who is 8 years old, however, this is MUCH more difficult to explain (and even more difficult to actually act upon) than we are insinuating. Most kids don't have the emotional fortitude to push themselves to physically stand up against a bully, especially if they've never fought anyone in their life. It's scary as hell, and just because it's the best method doesn't mean it's easy or simple.

 

[Blazade]

I really don't like the sentiment of "only the weak get bullied" or that the solution is to "get stronger" either physically or emotionally, because this whole battle of strength and dominance is really the kind of animalistic behavior that starts bullying in the first place and causes a lot of other cultural problems. Sure, fighting the problem like that is absolutely the fastest way to win in the short term, but in the long term it feeds into this cultural idea. You beat the bullies and prove you're "stronger", but then what? Everyone around you still values this and more rash actions are taken in the future to assert dominance, usually in more passive ways and usually not against you (but hey, you won, so who gives a damn?).

This whole dominance thing for me creates a bigger problem than just bullying. You get people judging other people as better or worse based on really simple, often radically manipulable criteria, with some devoting entire lifestyles to asserting themselves under these criteria (which doesn't necessarily accomplish anything). It's poisoned the well to some degree for just about any type of standardized social action, dating, job hunting, meeting new people in general, and even solidifying roles between close friends. I know it's evolutionary so it's not really going away anytime soon, but I wish a lot of people would grow up in this respect. Until then, I'll keep picking my battles like I've learned to do.