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What would you consider to be the most urgent thing that needs to be tested?

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by MythTrainerInfinity, Oct 27, 2008.

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What is the most urgent thing that needs to be tested in the D/P/Pt metagame?

  1. Retesting of Garchomp in OU in a Platinum environment

    17.9%
  2. Latios and Latias in OU

    20.7%
  3. Evasion Clause

    2.2%
  4. Manaphy in OU

    13.6%
  5. Species Clause

    0.5%
  6. OHKO Clause

    2.2%
  7. Mew in OU

    2.7%
  8. Arceus in Ubers

    3.8%
  9. Stealth Rock Removal

    26.6%
  10. Other (Please specify)

    9.8%
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  1. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

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    Seeing as Deoxys-S was recently moved back up to the Uber tier. I thought why not look at the things that you, the user would consider to be something that would be most needing to be tested.

    Please, let's keep this thread as smart as possible. Recycling arguments over and over is not going to make this go anywhere.
  2. Bogmire

    Bogmire

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    I personally don't see why allowing Lati@s into OU is even being considered. Its ability to effectively utilize items, including Soul Dew, is part of why its uber. Its the same reason why we didn't ban Yache Berry on Garchomp and allow it into OU, before Platinum.

    I'd really like to see Deoxys-D get tested for OU, I got quite a few reasons for my opinion that I may post later.
  3. Stellar

    Stellar
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    Orange Islands

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    Just posting to say that if Lati@s were ever allowed in OU, Soul Dew would be banned. I thought this was common knowledge. Not bothering to respond to your later posts due to their obviously conflict-oriented nature.
  4. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

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    Hey, let's try to keep this civil, I don't want this to turn into one of many discussions that get closed around here :x

    If you want something tested or not tested all I ask is if you elaborate on it.
  5. crobatchop

    crobatchop

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    Shaymin-S

    Shaymin - S must be removed to uber.
    This is exactly the same concept as Garchomp.

    With 127 base speed in OU, it can almost outspeed everything without Choice Scarf or boost, and outspeeds CS Heatran, etc. Of course it is nothing it terms of speed with Aerodatyl and Jolteon, but with the ability Seanre Grace (bad spelling sorry), Air slash gains 60% flinching (remember of paral-flinching king Togekiss?), and Seed Flare has a whooping 80% of -2 SpeDef. Plus Earth Power, only flying/floating pokemon that resist both grass and flying walls well. So then the last move can be used as healing (aromatherapy), status, HP of choice for type coverage, etc.
    Even in uber (which I have not tested), it can kill Groundon and Kyogre, and outspeeds everything except Deoxys, which you might want to attack against low defence versions and stall at the fatDeo. And one more thing: it outspeeds Darkrai!
  6. Kristoph

    Kristoph

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    Species, OHKO, and Evasion clauses, in no particular order (well, actually Evasion first, Species last, but that's just me). Getting rid of any of these clauses would shake things up to the degree that many of our decisions regarding Uber/OU pokemon could be rendered irrelevant. I also think that clauses in general do more to cause the game to be "incomplete" than banned pokemon, so we better have extremely good reasons for having them.

    As for the suspect pokemon, I've always been of the opinion that we should pretty much test every potentially OU pokemon at the same time. From the beginning of DP and maybe even a little beforehand, I remember AA proposing that we pretty much start from scratch in terms of bans, and I still to this day believe that that is what should have been done. That said, I expect Manaphy is the most likely of the five you listed to become OU (although it seems Ho-oh and Deoxys-L are becoming suspects as well, which makes me happy).

    Garchomp testing will/should happen after the other suspects are finished; it "had its chance" and I'm not sure Platinum did all that much to hinder it, unlike, say, Deoxys-S (I won't go into that).

    Stealth Rock should not be removed or tested, and it certainly shouldn't gain priority over anything listed. It's a new clause, and we need more than "I hate playing with this move all the time" to justify adding another clause in my opinion.

    Arceus in Ubers is being discussed in PR of course- I agree with Obi's position but maybe I'd say differently if I played Ubers. That said, testing is totally irrelevant when it comes to Arceus so whatever.


    If Lati@s without Soul Dew were considered fair game in Standard, then we could place the blame on the item and ban it from standard play entirely. The situation is different because Yache Berry is only broken on Garchomp, but can still be used by other pokemon with non-broken results.


    ok, that obviously doesn't belong in this thread as it has nothing to do with the transition from DP to Platinum. We already decided that Garchomp was uber in DP, so the only real question that may exist is whether Platinum really did anything to change things.


    why the attitude lol. Your post definitely made it seem like you thought Lati@s would be tested in standard with Soul Dew, so whatever.


    I'd also like to specifically bring up Mew because of the discussion in PR regarding it being taken off the suspect test list. I think it should remain a suspect because Dual Screen Deoxys is no longer OU (not that it matters- it was a suspect anyway so that argument was kind of silly). While I wouldn't be surprised per se if, say, Dual Screen Azelf + Mew became a silly gamebreaking combination, I don't think we can come to that conclusion without testing when there are certainly ways to stop Azelf, while Mew itself arguably didn't even improve from DP to Platinum (correct me if I'm wrong, I do realize he gained a few moves but I'm skeptical) due to inaccurate hypnosis and an even more offensive metagame.
  7. FiveKRunner

    FiveKRunner

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    This has zero chance of occurring. The ban on Deoxys-S was brought about moreso for its stalling and support abilities moreso than its ability to hit almost everything in the metagame decently hard. While Deoxys-D does not possess the same speed as Deoxys-S, it is by no means slow, being able to hit 306 speed. If one wanted to avoid Taunt, they could find an opportune time for an Agility followed by a Taunt of their own, and then the ability to set up whatever they want with amazing defense to boot.



    Anyway, my vote went towards the retesting of Garchomp. I personally never thought that its ban was warranted. It kept the offensive D/P as what it was and since its banning I've seen numerous bulky sweepers enter the fray without fear. Things like Jirachi and Suicune no longer have to fear STAB EQ from a CBer, so long as they outspeed Mamoswine. Garchomp was never difficult to counter and the changes that Platinum has brought to this game give an even greater reason for its retesting.
  8. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

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    Well since it is currently being tested I didn't put this as a choice.

    Sorry if I really didn't make that clear.

    Remember folks testing always comes before banning and even then people's opinions might change.
  9. Kristoph

    Kristoph

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    Taking a turn to use Agility just so you don't get taunted is pretty ridiculous, as you'll... just get taunted. Unless, that is, you manage to find that "opportune time" to use it, in which case you've been doing something right. Never mind the fact that Agility is probably a waste of space on Deoxys-D in the first place.
  10. Olie

    Olie

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    I chose other because I, as many people, think that Skymin should get tested ASAP.

    I realize it is next, but the OP asks "the most urgent thing that needs to be tested" So naturally, I chose the one thing that people are constantly debating about regardless of the short lived time it had in the metagame.
  11. Bogmire

    Bogmire

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    If Deoxys-D was to run 306 speed, it wouldn't be very bulky. If it ran a bulky spread then it would be as slow as hell and easily taunted by something faster. To put things into perspective, a 306 speed version is 2HKOed by Modest Heatran's Fire Blast (2HKOed by timid FB after SR), and +2 Scizor Bullet Punch without LO. If it uses Agility and Taunt on the same set, then what are you going to do? You'll probably have recover somewhere in there, so you got one moveslot left, which will probably leave you countered by half the metagame. If your last move is SR, then thats a lot of trouble to go through, just for a single entry hazard.
  12. ultimifier

    ultimifier

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    none of the above really strike me as necessary to test, but i voted for lati@s anyways. the most common pokemon in the game right now seem to be heatran, scizor, shaymin and salamence. lati@s cannot switch in on any of these, and is pretty much stopped dead in its tracks by heatran/scizor, unless the user carries HP fire/ earthquake. blissey is also a very good counter for latias, althugh not as good for latios as a DD outrage combo is possible.

    this is all theorymon here, so nothing is for certain. i personally feel that latias could POSSIBLY become OU, as being extremely defensive wont really help it stop scizor, blissey, tyranitar etc. on the other hand, i feel that there is no way latios would become OU, as a specs draco meteor or DD outrage with LO is uncounterable together (as in if you guess which one it is wrong you lose at least 1 pokemon)
  13. Bogmire

    Bogmire

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    Then why don't we ban Thick Club on Marowak and let it into UU?
  14. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

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    Because Marowak does not excel in its other stats. I do think the Lati twins well deserve Uber status and I'm open to their testing, but really its hard to compare them to Marowak.

    Marowak is easily counterable and beaten swiftly. As for the Lati twins, prehaps not so much.
  15. ultimifier

    ultimifier

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    it might have something to do with the fact that soul dew has no effect on battle tower or something picky like that. this is a decent poll, so try not to be so stubborn or this thing will get locked
  16. Bogmire

    Bogmire

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    I'm comparing them because they both have items that only affect them, and no other pokemon. If Lati@s can be allowed into a lower tier by banning its signature item, then the same could be said about Marowak, since BL is essentially the ubers of UU.

    Does disagreeing with a few other people make me stubborn?
  17. Kristoph

    Kristoph

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    Because UU is a complete mess right now and will probably be going through significant changes soon, one of which will probably involve Thick Club Marowak becoming UU (if temporarily, who knows).

    edit: that said, if the situations weren't so different then yes, I'd agree that the Marowak/Thick Club situation is similar to the Lati@s/Soul Dew one.
  18. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

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    Now that ya elaborated a bit, I agree with ya, for the sake of testing at least Marowak in UU without Thick Club would be interesting to see.
  19. ShinyElite

    ShinyElite

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    I voted "Other" for the sake of Skymin and the fact that I've seen a few people even claim Bullet Punch Scizor to be considered Uber.

    I thought the other selections were a little silly.

    Some say Stealth Rock constricts the metagame but it might become even more constricted without it because some of the big threats will be even harder to take down..


    But who am I to talk.

    With all these changes, I'm actually considering quitting until Platinum is released in the USA and re-emerging then when -hopefully- all this shit is sorted out. Within just a few months I've seen things come and go. It might seem ok that it fluctuates that quick but nothing is ever solid.

    Do we really need to remove/add anything during this time of big change? It just seems like it's too much..

    I've stated my reasons (simply because I voted) and now wish to exit quietly..
  20. ViVi

    ViVi

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    Neither of those qualify as counters, yes they can Ice Shard 'revenge kill' Chomp but they cant counter them.

    Well then Yache Berry should be banned, but only on Garchomp, by that sense of thinking...

    I really wanted to go through this and edit out the nonsense but didnt know where to start..anyways..
    Shaymin is alot different then Garchomp, I expect the voting for Skymin will be alot closer then it was for Garchomp, mostly because Skymin isnt nearly as fool-proof as Garchomp was.

    In regard to your last sentances, It is COMPLETELY irrelavent how Shaymin would do in ubers, Mew blows in Ubers and yet it is banned form OU. In relation to that, Shedinja is used on quite a few Uber teams from what I hear, does that mean its too good for uu?


    That said, I think im voting for Manaphy, possibly Mew. I think Manaphy really needs to be tested to see how broken it really will be in OU, We all know it works in Uber due to its ability + Kyogre, but I wonder what it would do with only 8 turns to setup, heal and attack?
  21. Erazor

    Erazor ✓ Just Doug It
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    i voted for the re-testing of garchomp.

    tyranitar and garchomp share the same base stat total. they learn practically the same moves. and tyranitar has the larger-albeit marginal- attack stat. while it is slower by a great deal, it is bulkier. so why does garchomp get banned to ubers, and not tyranitar?
    they both have 4x weaknesses to very common offensive types(ice and fight).
    so lets bring garchomp back to OU.
  22. Syberia

    Syberia [custom user title]
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    Last time I checked, Garchomp does not have 6 weaknesses, and Tyranitar doesn't have an ability that makes anything you try to do to it absolutely useless 20% of the time.
  23. Erazor

    Erazor ✓ Just Doug It
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    good point syberia. but come on, sand veil is hax.
  24. Destati

    Destati

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    I wanted to vote for "other" for the same reason crobatchop did, but mythtrainer said its already being tested soI voted for a Manaphy test. It would help counter many staples, such as Scizor, Heatran and Salamence
  25. Tingaling

    Tingaling

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    Definitely test skymin. That's my #1 priority
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