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When in Doubt, U-Turn Out!

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by ToF, Oct 18, 2011.

  1. ToF

    ToF
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    WHEN IN DOUBT, U-TURN OUT


    Introduction​


    So I haven't created a Rate My Team since the Manaphy suspect days of DPP (quite a long time ago for you old has-beens like me), and I promised I would eventually post this team. Pretty much everyone knows me to be a stall-based player, or that random ragequitting maniac that curses off everyone after getting haxed to oblivion. I'm going to present to you a new kind of team that I expected to be utter trash, yet has turned out to be not only a great team from an achievement perspective, but also the most fun I've had laddering with a Pokemon team my entire career on this site.

    I was forced to make this team as a result of the recently concluded Dream World "No Hazards" challenge. Since I'm naturally a stall-based player, the no hazards rule was basically a foreign language to me. Nonetheless, I gave into the creative part of my brain that makes up less than 1% of my personality, and just tested around random shit. I tried using the GOD of no hazards, Reuniclus, but ultimately found that the bitch was too weak to use, and I wasn't as lucky as some other Reuniclus users who shall be unnamed.

    I tried some reckless form of offense as well. I actually took husk's Astral Projection team and made comparable replacements and got a really shitty offensive team for the challenge, which failed miserably. Not only was I losing a shitton to people I should be beating, but I wasn't even having any fun playing these games. I needed to re-evaluate what would be effective in a no-hazards metagame, and also embrace the #dreamworld challenge. After all, I had to keep my "crown" in tact of placing well in these challenges, while also reaffirming that I could play shit other than defensive teams.

    I've always wanted to try out a U-turn based team, but I never had the time to make one with work and all, and also thought of them as ineffective. I played in one BW Tour and saw the usefulness of the CB Scizor - Volt Switch Rotom-W combination, which competely wrecked my stall team, primarily because I was unable to get a single layer of hazards up due to constant pressure on my walls. From that point onward, I created a team utilizing this infamous combination, with support from other potent U-turn users. Given the offensive nature of the metagame, it wasn't difficult finding the right balance of power and type-resists to create a successful team. So, without further ado, here's the most fun team I've ever made, and I encourage you all to try it out for yourself!

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    The Team


    [​IMG]

    Landorus (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    4 attack Landorus is not a conventionally seen Pokemon in the metagame, but damn is it effective. I usually lead with this thing considering it's strong and can bluff a lot of different sets early-game (Choice Scarf being the most notable set). Although the surprise of this set has diminished lately, it is still an offensive force to be reckoned with. Since opposing Sandstorm teams usually lead with Tyranitar, getting Landorus in early-game allows me to keep constant pressure on the opponent while slowly inflicting U-turn damage. Hidden Power Ice is solely there to dispose of Gliscor, and it's a nice backup to have against Dragons locked into Outrage without having to rely on the piece of shit that is known as Stone Edge. I have been contemplating the use of Smack Down over Stone Edge on Landorus since Skarmory is a bit of a problem to kill on this team, but based on my laddering experience, it's a bit too situational for me to bother making the switch.

    Surprisingly, Landorus is very important for me defensively. The Ground-type immunity is really useful against things like Excadrill when Rotom-W is weakened, which usually happens a lot considering the defensive overload the poor washing machine takes. I try and conserve as much of Landorus' health as possible if Rotom-W is about to die, as its resistances and typing make it a decent switch-in to Fighting-types such as Conkeldurr and Lucario.


    [​IMG]

    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Bullet Punch
    - Pursuit

    Part one of the infamous Scizor-Rotom combination, Scizor is an extremely important Pokemon on this team. Not only is it the only Steel-type on the team, making it invaluable in tanking Outrages and overpowered Dragon-type attacks, but it is also my only answer to Specs Latios via Pursuit, which otherwise would devastate the team. LO Latios is even more of a pain in the ass, but I have ways of dealing with that, usually through a barrage of priority attacks. Speaking of priority attacks, CB Scizor's Bullet Punch packs one powerful ass punch, and is often the way I kill things like Terakkion (have I mentioned that's also a major bitch to this team?).

    Scizor also keeps momentum in my favor with a strong ass STAB U-turn. It's always nice to be able to threaten Magnezone and Heatran switch-ins as well with Superpower. U-turn is pretty much what I spam early game, and mid-to-late game I go in for the kill with the appropriate move based on my predictions. Other than that, there's nothing really left to say for Scizor. It's always been a solid ass Pokemon since DPP and Technician, and continues to do exactly what the fuck you'd expect it to do!


    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split

    The second part of the Scizor-Rotom core, Rotom-W is definitely THE heart and soul of this team. Without it, I don't know how many goddamn physical Pokemon would kick the living shit out of this team. My main counter to a plethora of shit, including Excadrill, Landorus, Skarmory, Gliscor, Tyranitar, etc etc. You name it, Rotom-W can stand up to it (except strong as fuck Grass-type attacks ya know). As you all know by now, if you already didn't know, I'm a defensive player, so you know I would have to incorporate some of my personality into this team :D. Rotom-W is, to me, what Heatran was of DPP. This Pokemon is phenomenal defensively, and pretty damn potent offensively as well. Rotom-W, along with Celebi as you'll soon see, act as my insurance against Rain teams, being able to pummel them with strong Volt Switches. Gastrodon is annoying, but the rest of the team gives enough support to Rotom-W to beat the fuck outta that.

    Since I need Rotom-W more than I need sex (okay obviously exaggerating), Pain Split and Leftovers are a must for increased longevity. Without them, I wouldn't be able to stand up to basically every physical threat out there. I could go for a coverage move, like say HP Fire to 2HKO that prick Ferrothorn, but with the combination of WoW and Xatu, I think the recovered HP is more welcomed and fits better on the team.


    [​IMG]

    Celebi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - U-turn
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earth Power

    Okay, from here on out, the sets and Pokemon get interesting, so if you were bored up till now, wake the fuck up and read. Scarf Celebi...the people that know I ran this still look at me like I'm the biggest fucktard on the planet. What's even funnier is when a +1 Dragonite user laughs on PO and says GG as he thinks he's gonna win, and then wants to kill himself as Celebi KO's with HP Ice. This thing is such a solid failsafe it's not even funny. Anything that has a boost is susceptible to be revenged by this little cutie. What's even better is that the number one switch-in to Celebi is Heatran, and those get bombarded by Earth Power. And, if worst comes to worst, I can always U-turn out to something that can take on the opposing switch-in better. Definitely try this thing out, especially since Dragonite usage has been increasing, and it's always great to eradicate that thing quick and early in a game. Celebi is also a great backup check against Rain teams, being able to do heavy damage to every single member of a rain team, including Thundurus, which also gives this team some issues.

    Naive nature was to avoid the power drop of U-turn, which has honestly been useful against opposing Celebi that think they can Nasty Plot up and KO mine with HP Fire. Plus speed is important to at least tie with things like a +1 DDMence (which I didn't really see much of at all on the ladder) and Scarf Jirachi (which was equally as rare). Actually reflecting back on it, + Sp.Att might be the better nature. What do you guys think?


    [​IMG]

    Mienshao (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - U-turn
    - Fake Out
    - Stone Edge

    Oh my god. If I play Rotom-W recklessly, I play Mienshao even worse. Regenerator is such a sick ability on a sweeper like this that basically functions as follows: come in, Fake Out, U-turn out, come back at 100% and repeat. If Rotom-W is the defensive MVP of this team, Mienshao is surely the offensive MVP. Fake Out, in conjuction with Bullet Punch, saved my ass so many times, especially against the likes of Volcarona, which for some reason decide to Quiver Dance in front of a Bullet Punch locked Scizor as I do 40% each turn, and then Fake Out for the revenge-kill (Flame Body sucks though).

    The moveset is fairly standard. The only issue I have is Stone Edge versus Hidden Power Ice. I think I have more than enough Dragon and Gliscor checks, which is why I opted for Stone Edge (specifically for Volcarona). The downside of this Pokemon is it has such a limited movepool which kinda sucks, although it abuses the moves it does have to the max which is awesome. High Jump Kick does a shit-ton of damage to things like Rotom-W which think they can come in and wall Mienshao. And, on the off chance it misses or I use it on an incoming Ghost, Regenerator is there to save the day anyway! Definitely an awesome Pokemon to try out; it's strong, it's fast, and it's dangerous as hell.


    [​IMG]

    Xatu (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Reflect
    - Roost
    - U-turn

    Although Xatu is quite possibly the most retarded looking bird Pokemon, it had a damn important role to this team that I think put it from good to great. I struggled initially against entry-hazard teams on the ladder, given that one wrong prediction and spikes-stacking started to quickly take out my sweepers. Ferrothorn in particular was a thorn in my ass. Xatu not only filled the niche of completely countering Ferrothorn, but also reflecting back hazards which was critical in maintaining success on the ladder. And, as a huge plus, it learned U-turn, the whole theme of the damn team lol!

    The EV spread maximized what Xatu is best at doing - tanking some Close Combats and other random Fighting-type attacks, while being able to Roost off damage and set up Reflects for team support. Psychic was purely for things like Conkeldurr, which sometimes posed problems for the team depending on the team member it came in on. Magic Mirror is another sick ability that I needed to abuse heavily as I got higher and higher on the ladder to prevent this team from being at a disadvantage.


    Conclusion

    Not only did this team get second in the most recent #dreamworld challenge (if I knew the deadline I would have gotten first), it has also been a tremendous amount of fun to play with. I think the combination of the strategy deployed to win coupled with some fun and new Pokemon that I never would have used outside of these kind of restrictions all played a part in my enjoyment and success.

    That being said, this team does have some major problems, most notably being Rock-type attacks. CB Terakkion locked into Stone Edge is a nightmare for this team. CB Tyranitar Stone Edges are equally as horrible; in both these scenarios, something is dying. I would love for some input on how to change the team to take on some of these strong-ass Pokemon. Feel free to suggest minor changes or a complete overhaul of the team, I'm more than willing to change up little or all of the team. Thank's a lot for reading peeps, and remember, when in doubt, U-turn out!

    PS: Thanks to Iconic's LAYLA team for the format, I liked it and thought highly enough of you to use it. You should be honored.
  2. Banedon

    Banedon

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    Ok I have no experience with OU, but thought I'd ask this anyway: why Scarf Celebi instead of one of the multitude of other base 100s you can use? Even if it's for U-turn, there are other U-turning base 100s you can try (Mew, Jirachi, Victini, etc). Jirachi looks especially good, lacking the weaknesses Celebi gets and brings along a nice Rock resist too, although you do pick up a Ground weakness instead of resistance.

    U-turn teams are really annoying and eventually I just stay in and tank the U-turn as they keep spamming the move (ugh ...).
  3. Stone_Cold

    Stone_Cold
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    Celebi is such an important role Banedon. Bar Rotom, he needs another water check and Celebi can provide that. I really like this team ToF, as you know I am notorious for offensive teams, especially if they have a bit of bulk and so I really like this team. Have 6 pokemon who can switch out and scout while adding on damage is an idea that many people think of but very few can achieve. I myself am still unable to achieve a good team like that (I had a Darmanitan team but I lost the file).

    Kudos to you on making this thing work, I for one would love to test this team out, of course I can refrain if you deem otherwise xD. Im not gonna give you critiques because your enough of a high class battler to know everything you are weak to and anything I suggest I am sure you have not though of before. Nice team buddy. :)
  4. Stunt

    Stunt

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    There are some notable flaws to this team that needs to be addressed.

    I'm sure you have noticed that you have a problem with sun teams.
    Kojondo with Stone Edge is not a true remedy to Volcarona either; a mispredict could cause Quiver Dance havok.

    Another weakness which I am sure will be mentioned is the common Dragon + Magnezone combination, or even Dragon Dance Dragonite in general.

    Finally, this team may find trouble wearing down the opponents team without Stealth Rocks laid out.

    [​IMG]

    I hope I don't break the spirit of the team by proposing Heatran over Mienshao.
    Heatran benefits tremendously from the U-turn Volt Switch because it will be tough for Dugtrio to double switch into it. Heatran is an attempt to remedy the above weaknesses, though it may prove ineffective in some situations.

    Heatran (F) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs:
    Calm Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Flamethrower
    - Hidden Power Ice

    This set is merely a shell for you if you choose to use Heatran. Options are endless, and I am not sure what you would like to cover.
  5. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    Holy crap, you use more profanities than me. I didn't think that was possible.

    Anyways, great team, however, I think your team is sort of stuck in the whole no hazards mentality still. There's really no reason ever not to use hazards, not to mention turnswitcher teams are among the best abusers of hazards. The number of switches you force really racks up the hazards damage over the course of a match. You don't want to be relying on Xatu to get up entry hazards, since it requires a ton of prediction. Not to mention Xatu is a junk pokemon. The most common Stealth Rock user in the game is Tyranitar who you should never switch into, while most fighting types carry a dark/ ice move to smack Xatu while Xatu sits there taking a beatdown as they set up. I suggest dropping Xatu for a Forretress. Although Forry is THE momentum killer, it still carries Volt Switch and fits the theme of your team. It can rapid spin: a much more reliable method of keeping hazards off the field than Magic Bounce. But most importantly, it can set up its own hazards so your team can abuse that switchturning to the max. You don't have anybody to take Draco Meteors at the moment anyways, so probably go with a specially defensive variant.

    Show Hide

    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Sturdy
    Calm
    252 Hp/ 252 SpD/ 4 Def
    Stealth Rock
    Spikes
    Rapid Spin
    Volt Switch


    I can also see your team having trouble against sun teams. Venusaur can 6-0 the team and pokemon like Volcorona, Darmanitan, and Salamence can all put the hurt onto this team if played correctly. Your only way of dealing with these threats atm is... Fake Out... It seems that Landorus is the weak link to this team. Leftovers Landorus really isn't that surprising and if you take any damage on the switchin, you're gig is up. Landorus is not that great a switchin for the likes of Lucario or Conk either. Luke can take it out with Extremespeed if Lando has taken some prior damage whereas Conk can just bulk up in your face and continue to be the nuisance that it is. While I really don't want to screw up your 6 switchturners combination, there really is only one way to patch up all these problems: Resttalk Gyarados. Gyarados is a solid check to a good chunk of sun sweepers (although Venusaur is still going to be a whore) while it can phase Conk out over and over again until it succumbs to entry hazards and switchturn damage. Luke is also countered unless it runs (lol) Stone Edge. While you'll now only have 5 turners, Gyarados can rack up the entry hazards damage to allow Scizor or Celebi to clean up late game. while being able to get itself out of unfavorable matches with a phazing move. So if anything, its a better fit for your team than Lando

    Show Hide

    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Intimidate
    Impish
    248 Hp/ 252 Def/ 8 SpD
    Waterfall
    Roar/ Dragon Tail
    Rest
    Sleep Talk


    GL and cut down on the swearing lol. A little bit of modesty wouldn't hurt either Mr. I surely would've won if I'd known the deadline :P
  6. ToF

    ToF
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    I was thinking Scarf Jirachi at one point as well, but as Stone alluded to earlier it's nice having that extra insurance against rain. Additionally, Scarf Celebi is something completely unexpected, which is partially why I would say I had success on the ladder; no one was prepared for it, and it made for a nice surprise each game.

    Actually, I'm glad you mentioned Darma cause that would help a lot against Volcarona, though it would open up the Rock weakness a bit more and make me a bit more susceptible to rain.

    Anyway, feel free to use the team with any adjustments you think are necessary. I want people to try it out and see if there are any actual changes that are for the better.

    @ Stunt

    Heatran would work nicely in helping me cover sun teams, as well as set up Stealth Rock, and I think as I transition this team away from No Hazards it would definitely be a suitable replacement, probably over something like Xatu which has no real merit outside of this niche metagame I played in. Thanks for the rate!


    The idea was to showcase a no hazards team, so obviously it's gonna be in that mentality lol. You are more than welcome to help it adjust to the current metagame, so I appreciate some of the changes you've suggested, but I think some of the content is a bit off.

    You suggested Forretress, which would tank Draco Meteors just fine, but doesn't help in resolving the problems you cited. Sp.Def Forretress is still taking 50% from Specs Draco Meteor, and I'm forced to Volt Switch out as the opposing Latios user probably switches. I'd much rather just switch in Scizor, take that same 50%, and Pursuit for the kill. Secondly, you cited Magic Mirror and Xatu in general as a junk Pokemon. Try it out for yourself and see if you wanna change that statement. Xatu makes the perfect switch to a lot of stuff, including Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and BRELOOM. Also, your Tyranitar example, you know most of them are specially defensive right? Which means, I can Reflect first and stall them out, so Xatu actually does make for a decent switch-in there. And what prediction game do I have to go through against those walls I mentioned, I can send Xatu in without fear.

    You forget that I also have Scizor to deal with things like Venusaur, Volcarona, and other fast sun sweepers. Sun is a difficult playstyle for this team to face though, and I think my few losses were to sun teams simply because its a difficult matchup. Fake Out is extra insurance against these things, though I agree that sun in general is a bitch. Lastly, Gyarados against a sun team isn't exactly ideal. You know that Venusaur still kills it, and actually Volcarona has a chance to beat RestTalk Gyarados assuming unlucky Sleep Talk picks. Landorus actually kills shit, which is useful to the team. The 3 member core of Landorus, Scizor, and Rotom-W is something I don't want to change actually.

    Finally, to your point of being modest, I actually laddered the day after the deadline and surpassed the winner (Squirrel) so I can say with confidence I would have won. Squirrel had an awesome team himself, so kudos to him on winning the challenge and I hope to see his team showcased. And since when has swearing ever been disallowed?
  7. Stunt

    Stunt

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    I don't really see any rock "weakness" because you have Scizor, Celebi, Lando, Rotom-W, and Mienshao with threatening STABs.
    Scizor gets a nice u-turn on Terrak too.
  8. Stone_Cold

    Stone_Cold
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    @ New World Order

    Thank you for remding me, I forgot that profanity determines how good a team is. In that case, your team is trash ToF. You not allowed to have confidence either, that is strictly forbidden in pokemon!
  9. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    I absolutely love pivot teams, and this one is no exception.

    You could use Gliscor instead of Xatu in order to patch up that Terrakion weakness or yours. You could either go with the traditional Poison Heal or opt for Sand Veil in order to have a reliable method of getting up Rocks.

    Show Hide

    Gliscor w/ Toxic Orb
    Nature: Impish
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 248 HP; 184 Def; 76 Spe
    • U-Turn
    • Protect
    • Earthquake
    • Facade / Ice Fang /Taunt


    Other than that, fantastic team!
  10. august

    august free the robots
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winnerwon the 5th Official Smogon Tournament

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    You know how much i love this team :toast: only thing i can think of would be Timid > Naive on Celebi, cause its not like you really need power on U-turn and with Naive you're having more trouble switching into things like Politoed.

    Awesome team <3_<3
  11. Stunt

    Stunt

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    I wouldn't replace Xatu for Heatran... your team won't function with hazards on your side of the field.
  12. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    man this SHITS all over stall, fought it, froze landorus, had a long ass game, if i hadn't it would've been over really quick. fantastic, innovative and i've been wondering about what kind of celebi it was ever since i played against you (i thought it was sp.def for rain).
  13. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    Wait? When did I say the team was bad? In fact, I think its better than any team I've ever made. As well, my comment was in a joking manner, I probably swear more than 95% of the users on this forum. Thats what ":P" is for. Aren't you taking things just a tad too seriously?
  14. Banedon

    Banedon

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    The more I think about it, the less I understand this team. You have no hazards to abuse the switching your U-turns cause, and no spinning to take less damage from those same U-turns. There have got to be Pokemon that can put up hazards in spite of Xatu, e.g. unless you are brave enough to switch Xatu into Tyranitar, it can put up Stealth Rock. Not saying that it will, just saying that it can. Another example from my UU experience: Roserade comes really close to 2HKOing Xatu with uninvested Sludge Bomb, which a good player will probably be using after he sees Xatu in team preview.

    I think you should use a Forretress somewhere, but I'll be damned if I understood this team, let alone the OU metagame enough to fix.

    Good luck :)
  15. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    turn mien to jolly, you arent using hp ice anymore kid
  16. Ojama

    Ojama Let's trizzle the shizzle all over the hizzle
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    Hey ToF.

    Probably a lot of people already watched me playing on the ladder and I was using a U-Turn Team. First thing, change your Landorus' Set for this one =>
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]

    Landorus (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Smack Down


    With this Set, it's a great surprise for Skarmory, Bronzong (watch out Hp Ice but I mean on the switch you see ?). When using Smack Down on a Switch, most of the time, the opponent's Team will be weak to a powerfull Earthquake. In addition, with Expert Belt, your opponent will think it's a Scarf, but absolutely not and that's a better way than Leftovers, because Gliscor won't stay against Landorus with Leftovers.

    Second thing. I don't really understand your Rotom's Spread, it breaks the offensive of the Team and it's not really great. Why not using the Standard Rotom-W but with enough Speed to outspeed something like Celebi, which is really annoying =>
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 96 HP / 252 SAtk / 160 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split


    Now third thing. Using a ScarfCelebi isn't the best idea to be honest. Imagine if a Dragonite has a free set up and your own Celebi can't take an ExtremSpeed ? To be honest, I prefer using this Set if you really want play Celebi =>

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    Celebi @ Leftovers / Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 216 HP / 196 SAtk / 96 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earth Power
    - Recover / U-Turn


    Why this Spread ? Well, as you can see, with this Spread your Celebi is able to outspeed Dragonite with Max Speed (it means 259 with the Adamant Nature). This Set is really original and pretty good because Heatran and Dragonite, which could be annoying for the Team, are OHKO by Hidden Power Ice / Earthpower. For the Item. If you're using Recover, I think Life Orb is the better Item, but in the case you're running U-Turn, Leftovers are better because you need Celebi alive for Rain, Rotom-W and something like that.

    Well now, I really never thought about Mienshao and Xatu in a U-Turn Team, and to be honest it's really fun. In my own Team, I use Starmie Spinner and a Jirachi Expert Belt (and a Tyranitar but I'm going to talk about that). As you can notice it when using a U-Turn Team, Terrakion, Scizor, Rain + Sunny Teams (especially now) are really annoying. And when I'm looking at this Team, CBTerrakion does a K.O when it comes on the field. Just look at how a Stone Edge from the CB destroys your entire Team. I love the idea of Mienshao and Xatu, but you really need something against Rain + Sun Teams and the Threats I said. Oh and last thing, Volcarona 6-0 this Team as it wants.

    First, something against Terrakion@Stone Edge. I'm using a Jirachi Expert Belt in my own Team and it works pretty well =>

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    Jirachi @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - U-turn
    - Fire Punch
    - Body Slam


    This Set works pretty well. The key of this Set is Body Slam, when Volcarona is setting up or on a Switch (Landorus, etc...). U-Turn OHKO Celebi Plotter and that's a good think because you don't really have a safe Switch for Celebi. Now the most important thing with Jirachi : it's a check for Virizion. Look at how Virizion destroys your Team again. But it's just a suggestion. You can use a Gliscor@U-Turn, surprising and it's a good check for Terrakion, Scizor, etc.

    Now you need a Spinner + Spiker. Xatu "does" these 2 Jobs, maybe it's safe I really don't know, you know it better than me if Xatu works well there. I don't really have a suggestion for that because for me, I will use a Tyranitar somewhere with Shed Shell for Dugtrio, because it's not the best choice not using a Weather atm. But with Tyranitar, you don't have any Spinner, it's why I use Starmie over Celebi.

    Anyway, great Team ToF, gg and gl !
  17. Razza

    Razza

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    Nice uturn team, sub volcarona or morning sun volcarona will straight up 6-0 you, I would use choice scarf on landorus to prevent this and to be able to stop dragon dancers, many people will use protect on gliscor to scout for expert belt which is seen quite a lot, I would also consider using thunder wave on Rotom-w, the idea is simple thunder wave the latias/whatever switchin and volt switch out to something that beats it.

    Also I am not sure wether xatu learns wish or not, but if it does it would be good for the team
  18. ToF

    ToF
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    Some of these suggestions were great, thanks a lot for the rates guys appreciate it!

    I forgot to change Mienshao back to Jolly, whoops! Good catch kd...

    @Razza: You are correct. Substitute Volcarona sweeps me handily, which was actually my first loss with this team. Sun in general is a bitch. It seems like the consensus is to Scarf Landorus and change Celebi to an offensive Leftovers / LO variant, which I think is definitely feasible. Since Scarf Landorus covers a lot of what Celebi covers, I'll look into making the change and get back to you guys with results.

    @Ojama - Thanks for the rate dude. There's some stuff I agree with in your post, but some stuff I disagree with. No doubt Smack Down is a useful move on Landorus, but I think given the nature of the team, it doesn't benefit me much considering I have Xatu to U-turn to which also walls everything that I'm hitting with Smack Down (bar Rotom-W, which I can U-turn into Celebi for). The sad thing though is that Landorus doesn't have another better move other than Stone Edge, which I'm sure you can attest to is just horrible. I'll rerun Smack Down again and see if it makes much of a difference.

    In terms of the Rotom-W spread, I'm not changing it. Not only is my spread way more defensive than yours, but yours also is like 2HKO'd by a +2 Gliscor's Facade. I can't let Rotom-W die really fast, or I'd lose to a ton of physical Pokemon, like Excadrill prior to the ban and even opposing Landorus that can put the hurt on my team. Rotom-W doesn't need much offensive investment to be able to deal with the stuff it does anyway, though a stronger Volt Switch would definitely help sometimes ;)

    That Celebi set is really interesting, and I think I'll take it for a spin. If I decide to Scarf Landorus, I might even drop HP Ice for Recover and run a Giga Drain / Earth Power / Recover / U-turn Celebi. I think given this team though, a 4 attack Celebi would probably fit better (I want to kill Dragonite as soon as possible haha!)

    Virizion has trouble with Scizor, though I agree that it can be a bitch to deal with if it Focus Blasts on the first turn rather than Calm Minds. Jirachi is something I've considered in the past, though I ultimately had no room for it given the No Hazards metagame I played in. Now that I'm revamping the team, however, I can see it fitting over something like Xatu in a more defensive role, getting SR up and preventing me from losing to things like Latios and Virizion while taking some of the load off of Scizor.

    Lastly, you and someone on the prior page (I believe Mike) recommended Gliscor. I never thought of that, I completely forgot Gliscor got U-turn. That would be a fantastic pivot that would prevent Terakkion from running through me haha. Thanks for that suggestion guys, if anything I'd consider running it over Landorus though since I don't want to stack up on the same weakness.
  19. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Finally, you revealed your team, ToF. I wasn't expecting a switcher team, though, since I thought you mentioned having a Tangrowth :0

    Creative team (I especially like the inclusion of Xatu to repel / lay hazards). Also lots of great suggestions. If you do replace Landorus for Gliscor and make Celebi the LO variant to pack more punch and flexibility, I'd scarf Mienshao. It's just a much more powerful and better revenge killer than Celebi, especially now that you revealed Celebi's surprise. You should put HP Ice back over Fake Out in that case.

    Will-O-Wisp on Rotom-W is great, but Thunder Wave may be better to cripple sweepers, such as Volcarona. Paralysis does a fuck-ton of good job at stealing opponent's momentum.

    Congrats to your success, and keep on winning!
  20. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    Glad you like the Gliscor suggestion ^_^.

    Another thing that I just recently thought of is you could switch your Xatu to a Magnezone. Magnezone actually has a pretty solid niche on this team since it can easily come on off of a U-Turn or Volt Switch into something that it wants to trap (Ferrothorn, Forretress, or Skarmory). While Xatu is always nice to make sure you have some hazards of your own on the field, Magnezone could make it so that little to no hazards even get on the field at all.

    Show Hide

    Magnezone w/ Leftovers or Life Orb
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 4 HP; 252 SpAtk; 252 Spe
    • Substitute/ Volt Switch
    • Hidden Power [Fire]
    • Thunderbolt/ Thunder
    • Flash Cannon


    Leftovers is probably the Item I would go with, but Life Orb will give you some extra power to deal with other threats once Magnezone does its job. Choice Specs Modest could be used in order to solidly OHKO Ferrothorn, but honestly there really is no point.
  21. BKC

    BKC
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    Specs Latios is nearly impossible for you to handle. Your only Draco Meteor resist, Scizor, is taking an initial 60.4% - 71.3%, and 29.9% - 35.5% after the SpA drop. Unless your opponent rolls min damage twice, you'll be 2HKO'd; Latios can then switch out and once it returns, something is going to die; even your constant pivot switching isn't a failsafe because you have nothing faster bar Celebi, who's U-turn is barely scratching it. Changing the EV spread to 208 HP / 176 Atk / 124 SpD means you can take two successive Draco Meteors [53.5% - 63.1% initially and then 26.7% - 31.5% from -2] while still retaining most of your damage output.

    Consider running Chesto Berry > Leftovers and Rest > Pain Split on Rotom. You gain the bluff of a choice item, which, in conjunction with your bulk and use of Will-O-Wisp, will cause alot of confusion on your opponent's end; they'll also be kind of lax about trying to kill Rotom because they think it's got no recovery. That's when you Rest up and dish out more hurt than they'll be prepared to handle.

    Just a few things to consider, nice team!
  22. Squirrel.

    Squirrel.

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    Wow Ive been telling people that exact same thing "WHEN IN DOUBT, U-TURN OUT" when Ive been making these style teams with them. I didn't use this is the DWC Ive been using hazards which makes this style even more annoying it got top 25 in about 2 hours with ease. Solid team but your very weak to Volc. Change your Landrous set to scarf and that should fix it. Also if Conkledurr spams payback it could be annoying you could use a gliscor over xatu.

    Gliscor (M) @ Flight Gem
    Trait: Sand Veil
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Acrobatics
    - Earthquake
    - Roost

    Ive been using this set on my uturn team and it wrecks. Although SS helps this set a ton its still extremely good for taking out Conkledurr and has good synergy with rotom-w.
  23. ToF

    ToF
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    I'll change up Scizor to that EV spread. I mentioned a ton in the OP that Latios is a bitch to handle, so I hope that EV spread helps a bit more.

    The Flight Gem Gliscor suggestion seems cool, definitely will try that out as well! Thanks guys.
  24. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    That Gliscor gets rocked by a CB Stone edge from Terrakion if Gliscor has taken some prior damage. I would make the spread much more defensive in order to handle threats better
  25. Banedon

    Banedon

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    I just ... don't get your team at all ToF. Seriously: how do you intend to keep SR off your field? I've been trying to do that with Xatu, but it just doesn't work. Examples of things that have happened already:

    Opponent switches in Hippowdon. I go to Xatu, bouncing back Stealth Rock. I U-turn scouting for Stone Edge, but on that same turn he goes for Stealth Rock again.
    Opponent leads with SD Empoleon. I Trick him a Choice Scarf, but later in the game when he switches in, he puts up Stealth Rock. Who the heck runs Stealth Rock on SD Empoleon anyway (or, for that matter, who the heck runs SD Empoleon)? But while true, it did also happen ...
    Opponent leads with Aerodactyl. Stone Edge kills Xatu.

    And so on. I don't get it. Once Stealth Rock goes up, it inhibits all six of your Pokemon and there's nothing you can do about it. I just don't get it. Can you explain?

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