Whiscash: Debate, Discussion, Picnic

[SDShamshel]

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/340.shtml

Whiscash, considered the worst of the Water/Grounds. What does it have to offer us?

HP: 110
Attack: 78
Defense: 73
Special Attack: 76
Special Defense: 71
Speed: 60

Looking at its stats, Whiscash is not much better or worse at handling attacks than the other Water/Grounds below Swampert. Quagsire has Water Absorb but worse special defense, while Gastrodon is slightly better at taking special hits but slightly worse at the physical side. Whiscash is also faster than them (but not actually fast, so don't be relying on that speed too much). Whiscash with its 110 HP stat is able to make sturdy subs. It resists Stealth Rock.

An important thing to remember, though, is that even if Whiscash is the worst of the water/grounds, water/ground is still a VERY good type combination. Any basic advantages or disadvantages are shared between all water/grounds.

Whiscash's important trait is Anticipation, which lets you know if your opponent has a super effective move, an OHKO, or a selfdestruct-type move. Whiscash is only weak to grass, so that's all you have to look for. Anticipation DOESN'T trigger with Hidden Power unfortunately, but with the advent of grass rope and energy ball its much less of a concern. There is some conflicting info as to when or how Anticipation activates. Some sources say that it activates every time Whiscash meets a new Pokemon. Others say it activates every time Whiscash switches in.

Movewise, Whiscash gets the standard assortment of Earthquake, Stone Edge, Surf, Waterfall, etc. etc. The only moves that really set it apart are Spark and Zen Headbutt.

Whiscash is the only water/ground who gets a practical physical electric move. This is arguably worse because now Gyarados can come in on Whiscash and reduce Spark's power, but it gives a reason to use Whiscash over the others (and Hidden Power simply can't paralyze). I can't think of many situations where Whiscash could really take advantage of Zen Headbutt, but it's there.

Now, I think the keys to any sort of viability in standard (no matter how low) fall into Whiscash's use of Spark and its weight.

Spark once again isn't terribly powerful, but it sets it apart from the others, and hell, it gives it a better chance of taking down Gyarados than the others without resorting to HP Electric.

Now about the weight, Whiscash is a measly 52 lbs. What does this mean? It means that against Whiscash, Grass Rope is only 40 base (or 160 base once you multiply for weakness), which means that it's actually capable of surviving weaker Grass Ropes (and possibly even a few strong ones). Couple this with its Anticipation trait, and the fact that not all Grass Rope pokemon get Energy Ball, and Whiscash gains a tiny niche in the metagame.

As for movesets, I don't think there's very much to Whiscash movesets. It basically consists of mashing 4 offensive moves together, or perhaps Substitute or Toxic. That said, here are some.

Trait: Anticipation
Waterfall
Zen Headbutt
Spark
Earthquake
252 Attack, Rest in Defenses, + Attack, -Special Attack.
@Choice Band

Nothing particularly special, like I said, but it lets Whiscash do what the others can't.

Trait: Anticipation
Substitute
Amnesia
Earthquake/Stone Edge/Spark/Ice Beam
Surf/Waterfall/Hydro Pump
@Leftovers

This is for stopping our good friends the seismic tossers. With massive 101+ HP subs and Amnesia, Blissey can do basically nothing to it. There are plenty of physical threats of course, so configure offensive moves accordingly.

Like I said, there isn't much to making Whiscash sets, as its offense is fairly mediocre, but its movepool is diverse enough to threaten various enemies and its defense is decent enough to take hits.

So this thread is now open for discussion.

And about the picnic? I lied.

 

[ADH]

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/340.shtmlAnd about the picnic? I lied.

D: You're mean!

On topic, the only reason I'd ever use Whiscash is Spark, and even that is dubious. It would normally be able to do something in UU, but Gastrodon really has it outclassed there now, along with Quagsire having gotten better.

Amnesia's neat and you'll likely not experience too many hazers / phazers in D/P, as all the talk seems to be on rapid-fire offense of some defense that can take boosted hits and threaten back, but all it takes is a critical to break through that Amnesia. You could possibly out-pace a Raikou with Amnesia and break its subs with Earthquake, but really that's all I see Whiscash doing.

 

[Chompy]

good movesets. Id max his HP and defense.

 

[e4protector]

Um, how is Whiscash beating Raikou? Raikou's HP Grass owns it ._.
It beats HP Ice ones but beware of HP Grass...

 

[Footnote]

Spark and Waterfall becoming physical really helped Whiscash. Spark gives that Paralysis chance, which in turn gives Waterfall and Zen Headbutt their 20% chance to flinch. A small amount of synergy, but a notable one.

 

[Great Sage]

The second set isn't stopping Blissey if it doesn't have Rest, because Blissey takes roughly 12 ST PP to kill Whiscash (ok, maybe 18 to acount for healing off pathetic Earthquake damage).

 

[Misty]

I predict the majority of Raikou to be HP Ice. The advantage is simple - you can shut down Garchomp sweeps (bar Choice Scarf Outrages). Yeah, Swampert is still there, but I think it's kind of apparent that Garchomp is much scarier than Swampert. HP Grass is still a valid point, though.

Unfortunately for Whiscash, its improvements in DP were fairly minimal while everything else is getting all kinds of cool stuff. It's a shame Anticipation isn't a better trait. o.-

 

[Footnote]

Anticipation would be a better trait if:

1. Hidden Power weren't abused and/or Anticipation worked on it.
2. OHKO moves were allowed.
3. It activated whenever the opponent sent in a new Pokémon.

In fact, Whiscash would be slightly more useful in general if it could use Fissure. OHKO moves are mostly for when you either can't deal much damage (like when you have a 78 base attack and don't have a super-effective attack) or when you need to depend on luck to try to turn a losing battle around. Usually the latter.

 

[SDShamshel]

The second set isn't stopping Blissey if it doesn't have Rest, because Blissey takes roughly 12 ST PP to kill Whiscash (ok, maybe 18 to acount for healing off pathetic Earthquake damage).

I was accounting for Ice Beam Blissey as well combining it with Amnesia.

Besides, a Max attack + Personality Whiscash's Earthquake does 36-42% damage to a max defense + personality Blissey. It's not enough to 2hko or even 3hko most of the time, but I'd hardly call it pathetic. Waterfall would be less powerful but would have flinching opportunities for leftovers. In any case, if you're sure that it's the seismic tossing variety, feel free to put rest over amnesia. But yeah, this set would be better served by Fissure.

I think Anticipation is actually a good trait simply because it takes some of the mystery out of certain sets, and the only ones you'd have to worry about are like Gengar, who is capable of Exploding and using Grass Attacks.

 

[harle1012000]

if he had at least Recover, Stealth Rock, OR Curse I would have used this guy in OU. Why did GF feel the need to shaft his movepool? Spark isn't good enough to benefit from to make him more used or up to par with the other Ground/Water's.