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BW OU White Fang's Revolution!

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by H-C, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. H-C


    Oct 6, 2010

    Hello everyone, I hereby present my first RMT. This is a team that I have used extensively in the early BW2, before the arrival of Garchomp in the tier.It is one of my favorite teams and I have had a lot of success with it, winning the #pokemon tournament for example, which is why I present today. I hope you enjoy :d

    I started with the idea of the Landorus + Stoutland- core, because I noticed that most of Stoutland’s checks were lured in and killed by Landorus.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    After that I obviously added a Sandstorm inducer to abuse Stoutland's special ability, Sand Rush. Since I prefer semi stall , I decided to run Hippowdon.
    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]
    I then needed a solid defensive core fitting semi stall. I started to play with Amoongus, Heatran and Jellicent. The core was pretty good and also gave me a spinblocker who was pretty solid.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]
    I noticed I was weak to Entry Hazards so I decided to try defensive Starmie which proved to be a good choice.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]

    Lets take a closer look at the team: (changes will be in bold)

    Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers

    • Sand Stream
    • 252 HP / 36 Def / 216 sdef / 4 Spd
    • Impish Nature
    • Moveset:
    - Earthquake: Strong STAB-move that hits a lot of things hard.
    - Ice Fang: Allows Hippowdon to pop Air Balloons, and it hits Flying Types- like Gliscor and Dragonite.
    - Slack Off: Allows him to stay healthy throughout the battle.
    - Stealth Rock: Essential move for all offensive or defensive teams, "to limit switching".

    Why Hippowdon?

    I needed Sandstorm for Stoutland, so my choice would therefore involve either or Hippowdon or Tyranitar. Since I didn’t really like the latter, I immediately tried Hippowdon. It's also not trapped by Dugtrio which is extremely useful, especially against Sun Teams.

    Spread, item and nature

    For the distribution of EV's, I chose a middle ground between the Defensive and Specially Defensive sets. It does not hurt Hippowdon to take Special or Physical Moves, and it can Slack Off the damage. Impish Nature takes hits better on the physical side and Leftovers to regain health every turn for increased longevity.

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    • Flash Fire
    • 252 HP / 216 sdef / 40 Spd
    • Calm Nature
    • Moveset:
    - Lava-Plume: Stab and can get a burn which is always good
    - Earth Power: Mainly for other Heatran who otherwise would wall my Heatran
    - Protect: Allows you to scout the enemy moves, saving a round sandstorm / toxic or burn when possible and recovers 6% damage with Leftovers
    - Toxic: Discourages other Pokemon from using set up moves

    Why Heatran?
    The first member of Fire Water Grass core. Real counter of Genesect, and it is just great at defending Special Attacks. It allows you to check all Fire Pokemon, and usually Sun Teams without Dugtrio have a hard time beating it.

    Spread item and nature
    Distribution is easy, I reach 200 speed and allows me to outspeed all defensive Heatran and Pokemon that aim for that benchmark. This also allows me to be able to catch opposing Heatran with Earth Power. The rest is put into HP and SpeDef for obvious reasons of bulk. I use Leftovers to regain 6% per turn and thus prolong its life. Protect and opposing switches make sure Heatran is healthy throughout the game. Calm nature for obvious reasons of special bulk.

    Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
    • Regenerator
    • 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 sdef
    • Calm Nature
    • Moveset:
    - Giga Drain: allows me to attack the opponent and regain a little of my health
    - Spore: Puts an enemy asleep which is very advantageous
    - Clear Smog: Prevents the opposing Pokemon from setting up. It is also a STAB.
    - Stun Spore-: To paralyze a pokemon usually on the switch after using Spore.

    Why Amonguss?
    Second member of the Water Fire Grass Core, it helps to have a good weapon with which to face rain teams because it is able to take almost all Special Attacks. It also allows me to put opposing Pokemon to sleep. Sleep is always beneficial, and Amoongus can paralyze other Pokemon to facilitate my switches. Amoongus is a perfect check to Breloom and Water Pokemon.

    Spread item and nature

    EV distribution allows me to take as much damage on the specially defensive side. 40 Defense EVs allow me to take a little more physical beating and mainly Psyshock of Starmie that often comes when they think they will OHKO me. Leftovers to regain my life (or not losing is when there is SandStorm). A Calm nature to better take special moves (mainly water types).

    Another option: Roserade with Spikes could play the same role as it, Spikes are great for my team but it is less bulky.

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    • Natural Cure
    • 136 HP / 64 Def / 56 SAtk / 252 Spd
    • Timid Nature
    • Moveset:
    - Scald: It never burns!
    - Psyshock: Stab, lets get rid of fighting or even gengar
    - Recover: For longevity
    - Rapid Spin: removes the Hazards that my opponent set up

    Why Starmie?
    I really need a spinner, after playing Jellicent for a long time, the stall team were horrible to face if they managed to put all their hazards. So I opted for Starmie, and he completed the FWG core more.

    Spread, item and nature
    For EV distribution, it's pretty simple, I do not like not being max speed with him. Whenever I tested, I always regretted less speed. Distribution allows me to take hits relatively well and weak priority moves. 56 SpAtk EVs to hit the relatively stronger Fighting Pokes like Conkeldurr that upset me. Timid nature to be the fastest possible.

    Landorus @ Life Orb
    • Sheer Force
    • 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    • Timid Nature
    • Moveset:
    - U-turn: To keep the momentum against the teams presenting checks as Rotom or Latias Celebi.
    - Earth Power: STAB mandatory, surprises physicall stallers such as Forretress.
    - Focus Blast: For the coverave, can make good damage to Skarmory or Bliss / Chansey.
    - Hidden Power [Ice]: Another option that covers Gliscor, Dragonite.

    Why Landorus?
    It is the perfect partner for Stoutland because it lures the majority of stallers thanks to it usually having a physical movepool. It does well against Bulkys Offense by OHKO/2HKOing a large portion of the metagame. He enjoys SR to KO Stoutland checks.

    Spread, item and nature
    The simple 252/252 to enter the strongest possible as soon as possible. LO with Sheer Force, since Earth Power and Focus Blast won't damage Landorus.

    Another option: Rock Polish over U-Turn

    White Fang (Stoutland) @ Choice Band
    • Sand Rush
    • 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    • Adamant Nature
    • Moveset:
    - Return: STAB and it can finish the opposing team effectively. "I do not give a fuck" button
    - Pursuit: Used to weaken or finish some threats on a switch, such as Starmie or Gengar.
    - Wild Charge: Basically for SKarmory especially if I am not able to get rid of it with Landorus
    - Superpower: Used against Steel / Rock types if Landorus has not completed its sweep out, another coverage move.

    Why Stoutland?
    Being faster than other Pokemon is really important in a metagame as offensive as BW2. With the decline in use Scizor, Stoutland is back stronger than BW1, with a range of new threats to revenge kill. It obviously benefits the work of Landorus, which successfully eliminates physical walls. This is a late-game sweeper. He’s really strong, look at the calculations below.
    Show Hide
    252Atk Choice Band Stoutland (+Atk) Return in Sandstorm vs 0HP/0Def Leftovers Volt Absorb Thundurus Therian (Neutral): 102% - 120% (306 - 361 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    252Atk Choice Band Stoutland (+Atk) Return in Sandstorm vs 4HP/0Def Keldeo (Neutral): 77% - 91% (250 - 295 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252Atk Choice Band Stoutland (+Atk) Return vs 4HP/0Def Tornadus Therian (Neutral): 92% - 108% (276 - 325 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 51% chance to OHKO.(100% OHKO with Rocs)
    252Atk Choice Band Stoutland (+Atk) Return in Sandstorm vs 4HP/0Def Salamence (Neutral): 83% - 97% (276 - 325 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. (Clean OHKO with Rocs)
    252Atk Choice Band Stoutland (+Atk) Return in Sandstorm vs 4HP/0Def Starmie (Neutral): 100% - 117% (262 - 309 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    252Atk Choice Band Stoutland (+Atk) Return in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Tentacruel (+Def): 58% - 69% (214 - 253 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252Atk Choice Band Stoutland (+Atk) Return in Sandstorm vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Landorus (Neutral): 78% - 92% (250 - 295 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. (Possible OHKO with Rocs)
    252Atk Choice Band -1 Stoutland (+Atk) Return in Sandstorm vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Landorus Therian (Neutral): 43% - 51% (166 - 196 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. (High chance to 2HKO with Rocs)
    252Atk Choice Band Stoutland (+Atk) Return in Sandstorm vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Levitate Latios (Neutral): 75% - 89% (276 - 325 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. (Possible OHKO with Rocs)

    Spread, item and nature
    Choice Band to hit as hard as possible, Adamant to hit harder and EV distribution to hit as hard as possible and the fastest too. Not much to explain again.

    The last words
    Thanks for reading this, I hope you enjoyed it. I'd like to thanks everyone who helped me with this RMT. A big thanks to Delko / undisputed and Steven Snype who helped me with grammar check.
  2. H-C


    Oct 6, 2010
    Standard OU Offensive Threats
    Show Hide

    Mixed Attacker - Heatran
    Choice Scarf - Heatran / depends of the move he locks in

    Focus Sash - Hippowdon is never 2HKO, Heatran can take a hit
    Offensive Calm Mind -Have to play around with Hippowdon most of the time, if he runs Psyshock, Hippowdon walls it. Stoutland revenge kill it.

    Lead -well he can just set up his rocs, RK with Stoutland, Hippowdon walls him, Heatran checks it.
    Dual Screens - Same as above
    Nasty Plot - Heatran, Stoutland RK

    Choice Band -
    Azumarill: Amoonguss, depends the move he locks in

    Physical Attacker - Amoonguss
    Choice Band / Choice Scarf - Amoonguss
    Bulk Up - Amoonguss
    Sub Punch - Amoonguss

    Tinkerbell - Amoonguss, Heatran
    Nasty Plot Sweeper - Ammonguss, RK with Stoutland
    Choice Specs / Choice Scarf - Same as above

    Shell Smash - Heatran if no water types, can fuck me otherwise

    Bulk Up - Well I hate him, Amoongus can tank a bit if no ice punch, Landorus hits him really hard with Earthpower
    Flame Orb + 3 Attacks - Same as above

    Choice Scarf / Band - Heatran if locked into Flare Blitz, Stoutland RK, Hippowdon
    Life Orb - Hippowdon Stoutland RK

    Fast Spiker - Starmie rapid spins

    Dragon Dance - Hippowdon, Stoutland RK, Heatran if locked into Outrage
    Choice Band - hits really hard, something is going to die then I RK it with Stoutland
    Mixed -Heatran / Hippowdon
    Parashuffler - Same as above
    Rain Abuse - Same as above

    Focus Sash - Hippowdon, Landorus
    Choice Band - Same as above

    Agility - Amoonguss, RK with Stoutland
    Choice Specs - Amoonguss

    Baton Pass - Well I hate BP teams, if he was alone, I'd say it can not touch me but with the whole shit, I must put it in red
    Dual Screens - Heatran is enough

    Choice Scarf / Band - Heatran
    Rock Polish - Same as above
    Expert Belt -Same as above

    Substitute + Disable / Pain Split - Heatran / Hippowdon

    SmashPass - Ammonguss, I don't reallly like it because of the walls but Stoutland outspeeds at +2 and RK
    Shell Smash Sweeper - Same as above

    Choice Scarf / Specs - It's a trapper but it can only trap Amoonguss and Starmie so it isn't a big issue

    Offensive / Bulky Dragon Dance I have to play around ,only can RK it with Stoutland
    Choice Scarf - Easier but is dangerous anyway, Amoonguss and Stoutland RK

    Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Hits hard, Heatran if locked into Outrage, Stoutland RK, Hippowdon
    Dragon Dance - Hippowdon
    Swords Dance - Well something is going to die then I RK it with Stoutland or Landorus

    Choice Scarf / Specs - Starmie, Hippowdon on the scarf
    Air Balloon - Hippowdon, Starmie

    Mixed Attacker - Hippowdon takes a Draco Meteor and Slack Off, Heatran can check him
    Choice Specs / Scarf - Same as above but I have to play carefully against the specs
    Substitute - Fuck this mon, I have to break the sub and then RK it with Stoutland

    Expert Belt -
    Choice Band / Choice Scarf - Hippowdon, Starmie if he doesn't U-Turn
    Mixed Attacker - Hippowdon, Starmie
    Nasty Plot / Swords Dance booster -Starmie

    Substitute + Calm Mind / Substitute + 3 Attacks - Hippowdon, Heatran
    Wish + Calm Mind - Hippowdon
    Expert Belt - Hippo, Heatran, Landorus OHKO
    Choice Scarf -Hippo Heatran

    Choice Scarf / Specs - Amoonguss Starmie
    Calm Mind - Same as above

    Choice Specs- Hits hard, Amoonguss, RK with Stoutland
    Rain Dance - Have to play around with hippo then he doesn't have the RD, Amoonguss checks him correctly.
    Dragon Dance - I can only RK him with Stoutland, Amoonguss can take a hit

    Choice - Heatran
    Substitute + 3 Attacks - He won't stay a long time with Sub+SR, RK with Stoutland when the sub is down, Starmie walls him with Recover and psyshock
    Substitute + Roost - RK with Stoutland, because they always have Earthpower now Heatran can't switch in.

    Rock Polish : Amoonguss takes a hit, Hippowdon too.
    Swords Dance - Hippowdon, Starmie
    Special Attacker- Hippowdon, Stoutland RK
    Choice Scarf -Hippowdon, Starmie
    Substitute + 3 Attacks - Same as above

    Stealth Rock - Hippowdon
    Swords Dance / Rock Polish - Hippowdon
    Substitute + 3 Attacks Hippowdon
    Gravity -Hippowdon
    Choice Scarf -Hippowdon

    Life Orb -Heatran Stoutland RK it
    Choice Specs / Scarf - Heatran is my best answer
    Calm Mind - A big threat to the team especially if it's the SubCM, where I can only RK it with Stoutland ...

    Life Orb / Expert Belt - Have to play around with Heatran
    Choice Scarf / Specs - Heatran / Amoonguss if Surf
    Calm Mind - RK with Stoutland

    Swords Dance -
    I can only RK it with Landorus who can trakes ES at +2, I must not let him setting up

    Substitute - Hippowdon, Heatran
    Choice Scarf / Specs - same as above

    Physical Attacker - I hate this mon, with its too STAB it can 2HKO / OHKO every member of my time, I have to RK him with Starmie and anticipate correctly
    Focus Sash + Endeavor - Same as above

    Relic Song Mixed Attacker - never met him, I guess I can RK it with Stoutland and Hippowdon is a pretty good switch in
    Calm Mind + 3 Attacks / Substitute - Same as above but Heatran over Hippo

    Stealth Rock - Hippowdon
    Choice Scarf / Band - Same as above
    Agility - Same as above

    Stealth Rock : This mon is a pain due to his bulk, anyway it can't touch Heatran
    Baton Pass : as I said, I hate BP
    Nasty Plot Stoutland and Landorus RK

    All-Out Attacker -hopefully for me it's becoming rare, Amoonguss can take ever hits.
    Choice Scarf / Band - Hippowdon, Amoonguss.

    Special Attacker - Hippowdon, Heatran, Starmie, Landorus not a big issue itself but with the whole team around it can be a pain.

    Choice Specs / Scarf - Amoonguss Starmie
    3 Attacks - Same as above

    Offensive Trick Room- play around during the TR, Heatran takes some hits and he will be RK by Landorus / Stoutland
    Calm Mind - I can't really touch it, I can only RK it with Stoutland, I must not let him setting up many CM.

    Support - Amoonguss Heatran
    Choice Scarf / Specs -same

    Support - Amoonguss
    Choice Scarf / Specs - Amoonguss

    Dragon Dance - Hippowdon
    Mixed - Hippowdon
    Choice Scarf / Band - Hippowdon

    Choice Band - Hippowdon / Heatran
    Swords Dance - same as above
    Bulky Swords Dance - same as above

    Dragon Dance - Amoonguss
    Bulk Up - Landorus

    Speed Boost - It can 2HKO every member of my team ...

    Hazard Lead -Starmie Heatran Stoutland
    Baton Pass - red because of BP

    Life Orb - I have to be aware if he has Psyshock, in that case I have to play around to RK it with Stoutland but otherwise Amoonguss is a nice check
    Choice Specs -Same as above

    Choice Band -Hippowdon Heatran
    Non Choice - Hippowdon Heatran

    Substitute + Swords Dance / Salac Berry - Hippowdon, Starmie, Stoutland RK it with Superpower
    Choice Band / Choice Scarf- THe bander hits too hard but the scarf is inofensive lol
    Double Dance -Hippowdon, he will never set up both of his set up moves

    Nasty Plot -Heatran
    Agility - Heatran
    Choice Scarf - Heatran / Amoonguss

    Tailwind : Heatran, RK if Tailwind is not on with Stoutland

    Standard - Heatran
    Choice Specs - Heatran

    Swords Dance - Hippowdon, Landorus
    Bulk Up - Same as above
    SubPunch - Hippowdon only

    Choice Band - Hippowdon
    Choice Scarf - Hippowdon
    MixTar - Hippowdon

    Growth - If it has earthquake I'm pretty dead but either case, Amoonguss+Heatran

    Choice Band / Scarf - Heatran / Hippowdon / Starmie
    Special Attacker - Same as above

    Calm Mind -Amoonguss
    Swords Dance -Amoonguss

    Offensive Quiver Dance - Heatran
    Bulky Quiver Dance / Roost - Heatran
    Chesto Rest - Heatran is safe too
    Substitute -One more time, Heatran

    Standard OU Defensive Threats
    Show Hide

    Standard - Well it can not stall me a lot but puts a mon asleep whihch is annoying, anyway heatran walls it.

    Support - Every member of the team bar Amoonguss

    Tank -I don't like him but Hippowdon walls it, and Starmie is very good against him

    Physically Defensive - Heatran Amoonguss
    Specially Defensive - same as above

    Support - Every member bar Amoonguss (and it can spore lol)

    Utility - Heatran walls it, by the way I don't like facing CLoyster

    Support -in the sand, it can not really wall a lot of the mon, Heatran is the safest switch in anyway
    Calm Mind -same as above

    Specially Defensive -Amoonguss

    Calm Mind -Hippowdon / Heatran / Stoutland RK

    Standard -Heatran / Landorus

    Physically Defensive -Landorus + Heatran
    Specially Defensive -Same as above

    Tank -Amoonguss

    Substitute + Protect -Landorus Starmie
    Britscor Stallbreaker -Landorus Starmie
    Swords Dance Landorus starmie

    Bulky Support -Amoonguss + switch on bounce to Heatran who Toxik it
    Resttalk -Stoutland OHKO with Wild Charge

    Specially Defensive -Heatran, Landorus, Hippowdon

    Physical Tank -Starmie, Amoonguss, Landorus
    Specially Defensive - Same as above

    Utility Counter -Amoonguss / Heatran

    Specially Defensive -Heatran

    Support - I must not let her setup either way I can not RK it with Stoutland
    Reflect / Refresh + Calm Mind Same as above

    Stallbreaker -Heatran, Starmie

    Specially Defensive -Hippowdon, Heatran, Starmie, Landorus

    Defensive -Amoonguss, Starmie

    Defensive -Heatran, Hippowdon

    Physically Defensive -Amoonguss

    Support - Hippowdon, Heatran
    Choice Scarf -Same as above

    Support -Amoonguss

    Prankster -Heatran

    Physically Defensive -Heatran, Starmie, Landorus
    Specially Defensive -Same as above

    Tank - Amoonguss, Heatran toxiks, Landorus do hard dammages

    Rapid Spin -Amoonguss, RK with Stoutland

    Defensive - Heatran, Amoonguss, Landorus

    Substitute + Toxic -I have to be careful about the toxic but Hippowdon does a nice job and Heatran does too
    Protect -easier, hippowdon, Heatran

    Specially Defensive -Hippowdon, Heatran, Landorus

    Rest Hydration -Under the rain this thing is horrible, Amoonguss deals with it I guess
    Wish Support -Amoonguss, Heatran toxic

    SubSeed -Amoonguss, every member under the sand bar starmie

    Max Speed -It's a trapper but Starmie does really well against him.
    Bulky -Same

    Standard -Heatran, Starmie
  3. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    Jun 7, 2011
    Hey buddy,

    I think I have told you this like 1000 times, but this is an incredibly solid team. The only thing I would suggest is running a standard RP Landorus over your current set. While U-Turn is pretty effective at hurting standard RP Landorus counters, I never found myself using it too much when playing with this team and often wished Landorus was the standard RP set. RP can really clean up a lot of teams, and it is easily one of the most dangerous sweepers in the metagame atm. If you were to use this suggestion I would make Landorus Modest and use an EV spread of 68 HP / 252 SAtk / 188 Spd. These EV's let you outspeed all relevant threats at +2, while giving you a little bit more bulk to work with. Anyways, extremely solid team and congrats on its success. Luvdisc'd
  4. Rehin


    Mar 29, 2010
    I really like this team. I hated Stoutland until I read his ability, then I realized how he really is an amazing pokemon. You have 3 weaknesses to water, and 3 to ice (1 4x), but your Amoonguss, and Stoutland can help out against rain teams. Once water/ice mons are out, it looks like you can get to tearing through things. Starmie kills Ninetails, stopping the sun, and Heatran stops Abomasnow. Keep Hippowdon up long enough for them, and you win the weather.

    I like Amoonguss over Roserade, possibly because of personal opinion, possibly because of regenerator, probably because of spore. Either will fill the spot fine, but I like the Amoongus.

    You have no weaknesses to stealth rocks, (5 normal, 1 resist), and one resist to each weakness you have (aside from ice, and water), make your team look intimidating. The only thing I don't see is a dedicated Physical Wall, but you can likely just use your resist to tank the attacks.

    This is a damn nice looking team, and I hope it serves you well.
  5. BKC

    BKC It's always nice to be included in a sentence someone says.
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 16 Championis a defending World Cup of Pokemon championis the Smogon Tour Season 22 Champion

    May 22, 2010
    You forgot to mention that this team won the #pokemon tournament! Anyways I really enjoyed using it. There are just a few things I'd change but they're more of preference changes rather than necessities.

    I think it'd be worth trying out Spikes Roserade over Amoonguss. You lose some bulk, but Spikes are really helpful, and Natural Cure is really cool for shrugging off status, mainly burns from Rotom-W / random Scalds. Spikes | Giga Drain | HP Fire | Rest should work well.

    I would also go with Rock Polish > U-turn and a Modest nature on Landorus. U-turn is nice in theory but I never found myself using it, whereas I can recall a few situations where I had a free turn that wouldn've been an easy win if I had the option to double my Speed. Timid nature really isn't outrunning anything of note and the extra power from Modest is really appreciated.

    Overall, this is a very solid team, well done man.
  6. Nachos

    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Sep 16, 2007
    When I used this team, I felt like the only thing it missed was Roar on either Hippo or Tran. I think it should go over Ice Fang on Hippo as I've haven't been seeing too many Gliscors recently. Good team, luvdisc'd.
  7. peng


    May 21, 2009
    Hey, this is a nice team. Obviously very solid but just wondering if you've ever tested / considered Ferrothorn over Amoonguss? Just quickly looking through your threatlist, you've really highlighted most dragons as being a threat and I think squeezing another steel somewhere would really help. Heatran isn't enjoying taking Outrages from Dragonite, Salamence and Haxorus and it can't really do too much in return anyway. Ferrothorn gives you a better switch-in to Outrages (although the risk of Superpowers / Fire Punches / Fire Blasts is off-putting), whilst still providing an incredibly bulky water resist to help against the likes of Specs Politoed especially, but also Gyarados, LO Starmie and Kingdra that you identified as threats.

    As far as I can tell the only things this makes you weaker to are Keldeo, who is decently handled by Starmie already if you just go 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 252 Spd, and Breloom who is checked by Starmie and Landorus.

    Also I'm gonna disagree with Nachos because I feel you really want to keep Ice Fang on Hippowdon. Without it you become really weak to last mon RP Landorus in particular, even if you keep Amoonguss. If you are going to replace anything for Roar I think it should be Earth Power on Heatran because opposing Heatran shouldn't really be too much of an issue for you with Starmie and Landorus, and it gets worn down very quickly by Stoutland.

    Cool team, luvidsced.
  8. JGSabino


    May 19, 2010
    I fought this team today. I lost, but I noticed you have a small weakness to Expert Belt Cobalion. Rock Polish > U-turn on Landorus would help a little, even if you can't switch in.
  9. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Oct 9, 2012
    Nice team. I tried and it worked fine, but i have some minor changes that can make your team better. The first thing i noticed is that you have Special defense Heatran, Special Defense Amongus and Special defense Hippowdown. Its quite obvious that something need to be a defensive wall, because as you said strong phisical attacker like Cb dragonite, Cb terrakion, Sd lucario, can give you a lot of problem. The best choice here would be using Defensive Hippowdown. In this way it can take less damage and retaliate with Eq or ice fang respectively. For example a sword dance lucario cant ko you after a sword dance: 350 Atk (+2) VS 368 Def and 420 HP (180 Base Power): 320 - 376 (76.19% - 89.52%)
    And the same is for Adamant Life orbed +2 Terrakion 392 Atk (+2) VS 368 Def and 420 HP (180 Base Power): 358 - 421 (85.23% - 100.23%)
    It would also help you a bit against Cb Tar, it can do a lot of damage to Starmie with crunch, and nearly ko the rest of your team with Stone edge.
    Another thing that i would change here is Earth power on Heatran, take in mind that Specially defensive version almost never have Earth power, so others Heatran cant touch you, also offensive variants are relatively rare, i almost never saw a Choice specs Heatran. I think that Roar here fits better because i think that you need a phazer to beat something like Sub calm mind Latias, Dragons locked into Outrage or Volcarona. Speaking of starmie i think that your spread is inefficent, i would max his Hp first, and then i would drop the speed to 352, since you are not going to outspeed anything relevant with that spread, and you can still outspeed all the base 110. If you think that tornadus-n is a problem, then give it 354 speed. This is the spread you should use EVs: 248 HP / 44 SAtk / 216 Spd. For amongus i would use Hidden power ice over Clear smog, since it can do greater damage to Gliscor, Landorus, Thundurus, and dragons, while still hitting grass types like breloom super effectively. You already have spore and stun spore to avoid being setup fodder, so i think that its not that usefull here. I would also try Rock polish on landorus because i dont like the recoil of his weak u-turn, also rock polish can turn landorus to a sweeper that can actually sweep with his great special attack and speed, without rock polish a lot of stuff can revenge kill you. As for Stoutland i would recommend you to use Jolly nature. The reason is simple, with jolly you will outspeed Scarf Terrakion, Scarf Latios (that can be a problem if you fail to trap it) and scarf keldeo, that can revenge kill you easily otherwhise. I would not suggest you to drop his speed so that you can exactly outspeed scarf Latios and move the other evs on Hp, because with max speed you can actually try to do something against mamoswine even outside sand, at least its a speed tie. You also have more chance to revenge kill +2 Dragonite as well as Offensive Heatran even outside sand.

    Hippowdown ---> EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / Atk
    Heatran ---> Earth power < Roar
    Amoonguss ---> Hidden power ice > Clear Smog
    Starmie ---> 248 HP / 44 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Landorus ---> Rock polish > U-turn
    Stoutland ---> Jolly > Adamant

    This is my rate, hope i helped somewhat :x

    Ps. I think that Black sludge on Amonguss would help, In this way you can beat trick rotom easily, and rotom will not trick you the black sludge into any of your pokemon since you will switch into amonguss anyway.
  10. Reymedy

    Reymedy ne craint personne
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Oct 17, 2012
    Yo H-C ;)

    I love your team, it's solid but really classic also.
    However I was wondering if there was not a way to fix some of these weaknesses.. :\
    My ideas will probably be less good than all the ideas listed above but whatever !

    - I would change Starmie for Rotom-W. A bulky scarf set with Trick. This should fix some issues (like Sharpedo, Reuniclus with Trick, can come in Mamoswine EQ etc) I'd go for a HPump/Volt-Switch/WoW/Trick even if it seems a weird set.

    Then you got no spinner..
    - I'd go for a bulky Hitmontop .. :D. Let's forget it ! You can go Forretress over Amoonguss (this would soften this weakness to Ice move by the way) that forms a well rounded combination along with Heatran. This should help you to deal with Dragonite, a HPIce/VoltSwitch/Spikes/RapidSpin set would even kill him and that's what I'd go for here.

    Hope I helped you dude ! :D

    *Oh and by the way, at the moment Weavile seems to do a BIG hole in your team, outspeeding and hitting for super effective damage everybody (bar Stoutland if sand is up).
  11. H-C


    Oct 6, 2010
    I'll definitely try RP Landorus with this spread. Thanks for the compliments and for the Luvdisc as weel.

    Thanks ! :)

    I'll add later that the team won, I thought I already told it ahah. I'll give a try to Roserade and to RP Landorus since many people are recommending me this mon. Thanks for the compliments though !

    Ice Fang isn't only for GLiscor but for a few other mons too, I don't think I'm going to change it but I'll definitively try Roar on Heatran, thanks for the Luvdisc !
  12. H-C


    Oct 6, 2010
    Well, thanks for your rate. I'll analyze every changed you proposed.
    First I don't think that changing Hippowdon's thread will be that good, obviously it will take better hits on the physical side and then can handle Lucario.
    Then I'll try Roar Heatran, it may be really good for the team and I'll test it but I think I'm going to adopt him.
    I've already tried HP Ice Amoonguss but I didn't like him. I'll retest this mon but I don't think it's going to be that good for the team. And I'll change the item by Black Sludge, you are right on this plan, it's great against Rotom !
    For Starmie, as I said I really don't like to play without full speed, I'll give a try to this spread anyway.
    Lol, everyone is telling me "try RP Landorus", I will obviously give a try to it and it may be my last choice then ahah.
    And I will not change Stoutland, I know Terrakion outspeeds him when scarf and Latios too but those one are not big threats at all, Latios can't touch Heatran and Terrakion can't touch Hippowdon. I'm not sure the changes of Nature will change something but losing some kills.

    Well weavile can trap some of my mons but Heatran takes a hit and RK with lava plume, Hippowdon is never 2HKO even a spikes is up and SR too. I can RK it with Stoutland too so it's not a big issue.
    And I can't change Starmie, this mon complete the great fire water grass core which is really good and Rotom doesn't really help me against the threats you mentionned. And having only 1 water resist in a metagame where rain is everywhere is just inimaginable while Rotom-W is frail when scarfed or bulky variants.
    Thanks for the rate

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