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Who said Volturn was Neverused?

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by skylight, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. skylight

    skylight cuz you're a sky full of stars ☆
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    Volturn in NU
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    With the recent addition of Primeape to the tier, plus other fast Pokemon already in the tier such as Swellow, and Zebstrika to name a few, Volturn has become a lot more viable than it was before.

    A combination of even these three can become extremely annoying to face, especially when you add something to stop SR, or screen support, or even something to help said Pokemon with resists. Even with those three in particular, Zebstrika + Swellow + Primeape can work really well. Say Swellow is in, and faces an Electric-type, it U-turns to Zebstrika which has Lightingrod, gets the boost, and Volt Switches or attacks. If it's a Rock-type Pokemon, Swellow can U-turn to Primeape to resist Rock-type attacks, and you get the picture. However, these aren't the only Pokemon that can abuse Volturn in the tier, as there's stuff like Ninjask, Rotom-S, Braviary, Eelektross, Electabuzz, the list goes on. Even stuff like Probopass if you want extra resists!

    With all of that in mind, have you been using volturn in the new, faster NU? How viable is it? If you haven't, why not? What other Pokemon found in NU can make this strategy even better? What else works? Have you used a smaller volturn team with just one or two volturn users? Is that more effective? What counters or checks this strategy best? Share yo thoughts!
  2. Hollywood

    Hollywood time to pay!
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    I feel like voltturn on a smaller scale has always been viable in NU. With Pokemon like Rotom-F and -S, Swellow, Braviary, and even Probopass in the tier, there have always been good Pokemon with access to the moves. That said, it is definitely more viable now, between Primeape being introduced to the tier and other previously less viable mons with access to it becoming more useful due to better speed tiers.

    I haven't run full voltturn, but it is undoubtedly something to consider when teambuilding in the the current metagame. It's something I will probably try out in the near future so that I can talk more about it here.

    One of the things that makes it so viable though, is that is forces so many switches. In a Spikes infested metagame with 3-4 viable Spikes users and no great spinners, forcing switches is dangerous for opponents and incredibly welcome for offensive voltturning teams. Defensively oriented teams are hard-pressed to take hits. Once you switch into a check and it uses a voltturn move, something that can handle it comes in. Momentum is everything in Pokemon which is what makes this strategy so viable.
  3. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
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    I've recently been having massive success with Eelektross as a Volt Switcher. Mainly because I'm running that dastardly Expert Belt set. You see, Eelektross can basically always fire off a Volt Switch, as even if a Ground-type switches in, practically every single one is then dispatched by a Giga Drain. Another reason it's so great is because it's immune to Spikes and only neutral to Stealth Rock, a unique attribute among VolTurners. Therw is also the option of running a Specs set with Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Giga Drain and U-Turn over Volt Switch for the guaranteed momentum.
  4. elchupo

    elchupo

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    I remain somewhat dubious about the viability of VoltTurn in the lower tiers.

    I think two of the precursors for it to be a viable and good strategy are 1) At least two of the Pokemon get STAB on their respective moves 2) Users should be neutral/resist/immune to SR/Spikes.

    Unfortunately, NU doesn't have many options that fill these requirements. Having said that, Eelektross is probably the best candidate as a Volt Switch user in the tier thanks to it's type and ability.

    I think it's the U-Turn part of VoltTurn that is the biggest issue in NU. The best users don't receive STAB and have other problems that hinder their usefulness. Swellow is SR weak so it's pretty pointless to continually bring it in to spam a non-STAB 70 bp attack, and Scarf Primeape's U-Turn is extremely weak (I think it only does ~20-30% to standard Mushy).

    This whole thing gets compounded when you take into account the lack of viable spinners down here. Constantly bringing in Pokemon who don't resist most entry hazards to spam non-STAB (at least 50% of the time) low bp moves is just not a good strategy in NU, IMO.

    It works so well in the upper tiers because of two Pokemon, Scizor and Rotom-W. Down here, it's distinctly less potent.
  5. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist 40 more
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    I have been a user of Volt-Turn in NU since Round 2. I agree that having a resistance/immunity to Stealth Rocks and/or Spikes is vital for success, especially since most of the users do not have any form of recovery. So if your goal is to wear down counters in order to eventually sweep, you end up having to wear down your own users. There are also many Ground-type Pokemon in the tier (and their popularity is rising) who can easily switch into Volt Switch and stop the momentum you build up (double switching is a key to getting around that). In my experience, the key to using Volt-Turn is to control the momentum of the battle at key points of the match, rather than spamming between the moves. The addition of Primeape does give NU a viable user that is not weak to Stealth Rock (though Spikes remain a problem). We already had many Electric-types in the tier for the Volt Switch part of the core; the Rotom formes have been a personal favorite of mine because in exchange for a Stealth Rock weakness they are immune to Spikes. Eelektross is also one that catches my eye due to Levitate and its low Speed. This garners a question from me: What do you guys feel works better in the tier? A fast Volt-Turn core, a slow Volt-Turn core, or one fast and one slow Volt-Turn core?
  6. FLCL

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    one of the best pokemon to use on a volt turn team is zangoose. if you can force a switch then it can basically come in for free, activate toxic orb, and most likely get a kill. slower volt switchers like eelektross are the best choice since they can get zangoose in safely most of the time even if the opponent does not switch.
  7. Hot N Cold

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    Baton Pass Musharna is also a great option for this type of teams just like a defensive pivot to take different strong hits from the opponent because the rest of the team usually cant switch safely, paired this with glass cannon mons. Ok, BP dont make any damage but helps a lot with Pursuit and Gothorita / Wynaut support.
  8. vibrafoen

    vibrafoen

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    I've been itching to try VoltTurn since Primeape dropped. What I get from most teams I face is that Expert Belt Eelektross and Scarf Primeape do the best, but I wonder if Eelektross is too slow to pull its weight on the normally fast-paced offense of typical VoltTurn.

    I question the utility of Zangoose in this metagame. His job is getting a lot harder with all the new base 95s, and you have to remove all the faster ones and the Choice Scarfers (or at least severely weaken them) before he can sweep effectively. I don't know about typical battle strategies, but if I see a Zangoose on the opposing team, I know I have to preserve my Choice Scarf for when he tries to sweep. I suppose this would be the problem with pretty much any Volt/Turn-to-Sweep strategy, though.

    Who else works besides Zangoose?
  9. Celever

    Celever

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    Swellow is pretty similar to zangoose. It has to be said thouogh, zangoose does get quick attack for pokemon out-speeding him.
  10. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    So does Swellow :P
    It's harder to find a moveslot for that on Swellow though.
  11. Hollywood

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    Yeah, I was gonna say, Swellow gets Quick Attack.

    Also, I don't feel it's difficult to find the moveslot for it. I run BB/Facade/U-Turn/QA which I'm pretty sure is the standard set.
  12. Ashley11

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    I love using Swellow. It a fantastic revenge killer, and also 2 hit ko's most of the meta. That bad part though is how quickly it gets weakened down.

    As for volturn, I just havent used it too much. It doesnt seem TOO Viable without any good spinners in the meta. You seem to weaken yourself more than your opponet if your opponet has entry hazards up.
  13. skylight

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    There's lots of ways to avoid hazards, though. Taunt leads such as Samurott, CB Sawk, and so on. Then when facing Scolipede just... use a scarf Ape or something. It's pretty easy to work out in most cases when hazards are coming, and you can always Volt Switch/U-turn out if they lead with something else. However, there are times where you can't avoid hazards and that's understandable, but there's still many ways you can explore to avoid hazards without the use of a spinner on volturn teams.

    Also, in regards to the free switch, I'd be more interested in using Swellow when volturning over Zangoose purely because Swellow is so useful in this metagame, and Zangoose struggles to reach the speed tier it needs to, to be able to do enough. Zangoose is amazing, yes, but unless it's against a slower team then I think volturn with Zangoose was better off in Stage 8 as the bulk of the teams I see now are pretty fast offensively. Swellow also has the added bonus of being able to abuse U-turn itself, something which Zangoose lacks.
  14. KryptoKrunch

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    I've had good success with scarfed Electabuzz in a Volt Switch role. He's slower than scarfed Zebstrika, but packs a bigger punch and doesn't have to worry about rocks like Rotom-S does.

    Elektross as a Volt Switcher is another good option. Having decent bulk, no weaknesses and immune to spikes is really helpful as mentioned above.
  15. Zebraiken

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    Definitely agree with the statements here. I used to love Eelektross + Zangoose, but the new drops stymied Zangoose's effectiveness so much that it's really just not even worth running right now unless you're going to support it excessively.

    I was using Taunt Expert Belt Primeape + LO Zebstrika + Gothorita on the ladder for a little while earlier and they actually worked pretty well together when paired with a strong offensive core. Taunt Primeape is actually quite good at keeping away hazards if you pair it with something to take advantage of all the hazard setters (RP Grass Gem Torterra is really really neat!!). Tauros and other Normal-types are neat here too.
  16. Nicolaibalu

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    Im using Zangoose at the moment because I got it from the ladder challenge currently running. The move im using the most on him is quick attack (lol). He is a solid revenge killer for slower foes and the priority move is always nice to have, but pulling off a clean sweep with him is really hard.
    I find myself volt-switching/u-turning to zangoose early in the game, just to activate his Toxic-Orb which means that standard misdreavus cant really do anything to Zangoose and gives the chance to put some damage in.
    I wouldnt dedicate a whole team to voltturning tough. The many stealth rock weak users, the lack of good spinners (ghost types lke missy are everywhere anyways) and a good amount of pokes that can set up SR reliably makes it hard to not wear your own team down by doing it.

    In short:
    -Zangoose often to slow to sweep (priority is nice tough)
    -Voltturning has its use
    -Voltturning as a strategy not so great in NU
  17. vibrafoen

    vibrafoen

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    I'm currently using this team with some success:

    Show Hide
    Jynx (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Lovely Kiss
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic

    Primeape (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge
    - Punishment

    Eelektross (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 84 Spd / 252 SAtk / 172 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Flamethrower
    - Giga Drain
    - Acid Spray

    Misdreavus (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Taunt
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split

    Golem (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rock Blast
    - Earthquake
    - Sucker Punch

    Kangaskhan (F) @ Silk Scarf
    Trait: Scrappy
    EVs: 252 Atk / 40 HP / 216 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Sucker Punch
    - Double-Edge
    - Earthquake



    Primeape is pretty good because he resists SR, and Eelektross takes neutral from SR and avoids Spikes. I think this is pretty much as good as it gets for VoltTurn cores.
  18. Kentucky Fried Colonel

    Kentucky Fried Colonel

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    I personally run a volturn core with primape and electrode. Primape gets a stealth rocks resit, which is nice, and electrode works due to the fact hat you can still invest a good amount of EV's in bulk while still out speeding max speed swellow. Eelektross does have it's advantages, such as switching out second, but electrodes blazing speed and access to taunt make him a great stall breaker as well as scout. The choice between eelektross and electrode just comes down to personal preference/team needs, but I find it works really well for me.
  19. Tyfusion

    Tyfusion

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    Same as above! This core is absolutely amazing!
  20. Master of the Six Kings

    Master of the Six Kings

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    Eelektross really works for me with this set up. I love how it can take at least one hit and fire off something super effective so often. Primeape is a good scarfer, but hasn't impressed me too terribly, and Swellow is just as good as ever. I really love Tangela with this set up, as Regenerator is a good compliment to VoltTurn. I just wish Cryogonal was NU, spin/reliable recovery on a good sp def Poke would really will up the team.

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