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Who says hail sucks?

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by voodoo pimp, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Since I'm pretty satisfied with the quality of my VGC team, I wanted to give something else a try for the upcoming Wi-Fi tournament. After testing out a few different team concepts with varying degrees of success, I decided I wanted to try out hail for once. Note that I haven't tested this team on PO, but it has been quite successful on random Wi-Fi (currently 18-0).

    The team
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    team-building process (open)

    Obviously, any serious hail team needs Abomasnow, so I started there.
    [​IMG]
    Looking for good partners, I noticed that the VGC community team's Abomasnow/Milotic pair seemed pretty effective, but I decided Suicune would be cooler.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    In the past, I had noticed that in hail, Raikou can get the legendary Electric/Ice coverage thanks to Weather Ball, so I added it as another weather abuser.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Now I had a lot of special attackers and limited type coverage, and it seemed like I would have some trouble with Fighting-types, so I looked to pretty much the only physical Psychic attacker who isn't screwed by Intimidate: Metagross.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I could still use another physical attacker, and two Fire weaknesses and trouble hitting Steel-types meant that a Fire-type of my own seemed like the best solution. Thus, Darmanitan was brought in.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    The only remaining problem I could spot right off the bat was being trolled by Trick Room. Imprison Chandelure never seemed very good to me, and I really didn't want another Rock weakness, so I decided to give someone else a shot, and Cofagrigus immediately caught my eye.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Now that my team was done, I went off to do some battles. It worked great, but I felt like Raikou was a bit of a weak link. Being just barely slower than everything I wanted to hit (particularly Garchomp) was really annoying, and Weather Ball wasn't quite strong enough to make it feel like a true weather abuser. But I liked the niche it had, so I just replaced it with a different Electric/Ice attacker, Rotom-F.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    The Pokémon:

    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow@Focus Sash
    Ability: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SpA
    Nature: Quiet
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain
    - Ice Shard
    - Protect

    I opted for a bulky Abomasnow over the Choice Scarf set for a number of reasons. It gives me a better chance of getting the weather up on turn 1 (being slower than everything except Iron Ball users and Hippowdon), I've never really been a fan of Choice items, and I prefer bulkier Pokémon in general. Blizzard and Giga Drain are the obvious STAB moves of choice, and Ice Shard finishes off sashed/Sturdy mons, Yache survivors, and anything else that might be holding on for dear life.

    [​IMG]
    Suicune@Wacan Berry
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD
    Nature: Modest
    - Hydro Pump
    - Blizzard
    - Tailwind
    - Protect

    Water/Grass is a great type combination, as Ludicolo's popularity proves. Suicune's excellent bulk and decent Special Attack make it one of the prime candidates for patching up Abomasnow's crippling Fire weakness. Hydro Pump's accuracy may let me down sometimes, but makes up for it by scoring some crucial KOs (most notably 252/0 Chandelure), and Blizzard lets Suicune function as a hail abuser. Tailwind may not help Abomasnow much, as it's still slower than most of the metagame, but it's a great support move for the rest of the team.

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-F@Choice Specs
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/248 SpA/4 SpD
    Nature: Modest
    - Thunderbolt
    - Blizzard
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Trick

    With arguably the best offensive typing in the game, I feel that Rotom-F is a very underrated hail abuser. HP Fire hits the handful of relevant Pokémon that resist its other attacks (I guess Abomasnow can handle Seaking and Lanturn if they really become a problem). As suggested, I changed it to a Trick set, which gives the team some much-needed flexibility by allowing it to either attack or cripple something as appropriate. Specs instead of Scarf since the possibility of Tailwind/TR support makes power more valuable than speed, and most of the team's major threats except Chandelure are physical.

    [​IMG]
    Metagross@Occa Berry
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 172 HP/252 Atk/84 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    - Meteor Mash
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Bullet Punch
    - Protect

    Metagross handles what Suicune can't, dealing with the Rock and Fighting attackers that plague my Ice-types. Meteor Mash and Zen Headbutt take down the likes of Tyranitar, Terrakion, and Hitmontop (shrugging off Intimidate as it does so), and do solid neutral damage as well, with Bullet Punch to clean up the survivors. Occa Berry mitigates the team's Fire weakness, and 84 Speed EVs allow it to outspeed base 130 Pokémon under Tailwind.

    [​IMG]
    Darmanitan@Life Orb
    Ability: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/124 Def/124 SpD/4 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    - Flare Blitz
    - Rock Slide
    - Superpower
    - Protect

    With a huge defensive weakness to Fire and no way to hit Steel-types really hard (HP Fire only goes so far), a strong Fire-type of my own was a natural choice. Flare Blitz is stupidly powerful, even having a chance of OHKOing 252/0 Occa Metagross, and the other moves provide perfect neutral coverage.

    [​IMG]
    Cofagrigus@Leftovers
    Ability: Mummy
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SpD
    Nature: Sassy
    - Trick Room
    - Imprison
    - Shadow Ball
    - Protect

    I always seem to end up with a Trick Room user on my team, since it not only stops TR teams from setting up but can also turn the tables on fast offensive teams. The main thing I never liked about Imprison Chandelure was that it died too easily - with mediocre bulk and crappy defensive typing, it was often little more than a speed bump for your opponent. Cofagrigus, on the other hand, can take a few hits and keep going strong, and still has a relevant offensive presence with its surprising base 95 Special Attack. The rarity of strong Ghost attacks besides Shadow Ball also means that Imprison basically brings it down to one weakness. Leftovers cancel out the hail damage, letting it stick around to do its job even longer.


    Threats and Problems

    Fire and Rock attacks are obviously a problem, but I've always been able to deal with them through well-timed Protects and switches. What really gives me trouble isn't certain teams so much as unexpected strategies, as my team has a hard time adapting to surprises once Team Preview is done, so suggestions that add in-battle flexibility to the team would be the most helpful.
  2. The Knights of Wario Land

    The Knights of Wario Land

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    Hmm, nice team you got here, looks like you indeed put a lot of thought into it. I do have some suggestions though:

    -Earthquake should be run over Meteor Mash on Metagross. You lack Ground-type coverage, EQ is a fantastic spread move, and you can abuse it fairly well with Rotom-F on the field.
    -I'd suggest a Choice item on that Rotom, replacing Protect with Trick, to add more power or speed/mess up an opponent's strategy massively.
    -For Suicune or Cofagrigus I suggest a Sitrus Berry, it's a fantastic item to use with these bulky mons.

    Other than that looks good.
  3. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
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    I suppose Earthquake is an option, but it seems kind of weak on Metagross, and without Meteor Mash I lose the possible OHKO on Tyranitar.
    Choice item is an interesting idea, I'll give that a try.
    I'd like to keep the Wacan Berry on Suicune so it stands a chance against Zapdos, but Leftovers vs. Sitrus Berry has always been complicated, so maybe it can go there.
  4. Drifblim

    Drifblim

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    Choice Scarf might work a little better on Rotom, you will then have the option not to use to Trick and to spam move of your choice, likely Blizzard. Sandstorm with Hippowdon to set it up could do massive damage to this team. Suicune is a pretty solid counter, but once he's out it won't be pretty. Cofagrigus and Suicune might both want to run bulkier Ev spreads. I have no idea how much Sp Atk Suicune needs to KO 252/0 Chandelure, but probably don't go above that number. Cofagrigus main point is kind of stalling, one attack move with good coverage seems a little out of place with so many Sp Atk evs. Cofagrigus might want to run WoW in that case, partner protects for a turn while Cofag cripples something. It's cool to see some more of the more uncommon 'mons!
  5. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
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    Abomasnow does plenty of damage to Hippowdon with Giga Drain, Rotom kills it if it can land a hit, and neither one really cares about its attacks outside of the rare Fire Fang, so Hippowdon itself is much less of a concern than the weather it brings. It's just a matter of keeping Abomasnow alive long enough to KO it and change the weather.

    I want to keep Suicune's SpA as high as possible because strong Water coverage is important for dealing with some of the team's threats, but I can see your point about Cofagrigus. I'm not sure what to give up, though - part of the reason I gave it an offensive spread in the first place was so that it wouldn't feel like dead weight after setting up.
  6. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
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    All right, I went with a bulkier spread on Cofagrigus, but I kept the moveset because it still does pretty good damage and I don't want it to be Taunt bait.

    Any more suggestions?
  7. Drifblim

    Drifblim

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    I hate to say so, but I still find Cofagrigus a little out of place. As the team has no real speedsters, a Latios could be used over Coffy. They have Blizzard, which when coming off so fast with its decent coverage will leave many things into a partner's Blizzard KO range. But that could be be more of a personal preference of mine
  8. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
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    But without Cofagrigus, I have no way to stop TR from going up beyond trying to KO the user. Sure, it's not the end of the world, but I'd rather not make things too easy for them. I'm not entirely sure what you're saying after that, since Latios can't learn Blizzard.
  9. Drifblim

    Drifblim

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    Sorry for wasted time, my thought process just went "They can learn Ice Beam, they must learn Blizzard!"
  10. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
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    It's still a worthwhile suggestion, and I actually don't want too many Blizzard spammers - too many moveslots would become much less useful if I can't maintain control of the weather.
  11. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
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    Anyone else have any more comments? I'm pretty satisfied with the team at this point, so I'm gonna start RNGing it soon.

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