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Why the Rush? Stoutland in OU Sand

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by ToGdor, Apr 5, 2013.

  1. ToGdor

    ToGdor

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8
    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]

    OK, hello Smogon, let's get down to business. First RMT I believe, so don't bite too hard. I decided that Sand Rush was a very underrated ability, and I wanted to try it out in OU. Then, I realized why it's underrated- piss poor distribution. With options of either Sandslash or Stoutland, the choice seemed obvious to me. On a sand team, I don't need the extra Water and Ice weakness that Sandslash would bring, plus Stoutland is faster, and able to take neutral special hits. Now, currently the biggest problem the team faces is a Fighting weakness, which I'm considering solving by replacing Gastrodon with Jellicent. Now, let's get in depth.

    [​IMG]
    Stoutland (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Crunch
    - Wild Charge
    - Superpower
    - Return

    Stoutland here is the bread and butter of this team. Generally a revenge killer, he's got 518 speed with an Adamant nature, letting him outspeed up to base 105 speed Scarfers. Now, I'm sure a lot of you will say Jolly would be better, letting him outspeed all Scarfers up to 121 base speed, but the sad truth is that even with a Life Orb, a base 100 Attack stat doesn't quite hit hard enough without an Adamant nature. In place of Wild Charge I previously had Fire Fang, but I find that the Fangs are just too weak to use competitively. Obviously Crunch is for Ghosts and SP is for Rocks/Steels, and his type coverage is very nicely rounded out. What differentiates Stoutland from other fast sweepers is his decent bulk, being able to usually take a neutral hit (from either side) and continue on his rampage. Now, obviously, Sand Rush Stoutland is useless without sand, which leads us to...

    [​IMG]
    Hippowdon (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Slack Off
    - Toxic
    - Protect

    Hippowdon, my preferred Sand Streamer. Obviously Ttar is the better choice for an offensive role, but I needed something to take physical hits, and that 4x Fighting weakness, plus a weakness to U-turn, is nasty. You may be wondering where Stealth Rock is, and I don't have a good answer for you. I prefer Toxic stall, and that's what this set does best. There are very few physical threats that Hippowdon can't sponge hits from and wear down with the combination of Toxic, Sandstorm, and often Life Orb damage. I like my weather starters to do more than start weather, and this hippo fills that role. However, being weak to Water and a bit lacking on the Special Defense side, I also needed to recruit...

    [​IMG]

    Gastrodon (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    - Recover
    - Toxic
    - Clear Smog
    - Ice Beam

    Gastrodon, special wall extraordinaire. Mainly around to take any hits Hippowdon can't, and continue the Toxic stall rampage, Storm Drain alone makes Gastro a huge benefit to this team. A STABless set may seem a bit weird, but Gastro isn't here to do huge damage, it's here to absorb it. However, if need be, Ice Beam is good enough to take on any specially attacking Dragons, especially Lati@s, who frequently give Gastro a Sp. Atk boost with Surf. I can't think of a segue into my next Pokemon.

    [​IMG]

    Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Punch
    - U-turn

    There really isn't much to say about this, is there? Standard scarfed Flygon, though again, I run an Adamant nature, because that extra oomph can really come in handy. Scarfed Pokemon's roles are pretty obvious to anybody who plays this game, so I don't think I need to go in depth about it, but usually any team should have at least one scarfer, and Flygon fits the bill pretty well for this one. Dragon/Ground gets neutral coverage on everything besides Skarmory and Bronzong, and to deal with them (and other pesky Steels) we have...

    [​IMG]

    Magnezone @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Flash Cannon
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Thunderbolt

    Another pretty standard set with a standard purpose, Magnezone's role in life is to fire off HP Fires and Volt Switches at any Steel type dumb enough to get trapped by its Magnet Pull. I choose Specs over Scarf mainly because Scarfed Magnezone's HP Fire can fail to OHKO a specially defensive Ferrothorn. I also like having the VoltTurn synergy going with Flygon to keep momentum, and hey, it's a UFO. It's awesome. Next.

    [​IMG]

    Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Aura Sphere
    - Vacuum Wave
    - Shadow Ball
    - Nasty Plot

    Finally, we have Nasty Plot Lucario. Generally, Physical Lucario is considered to be the superior option, but I needed more special power on my team, and Lucario has killer Special Attack, access to one of the best boosting moves in the game, a Special STAB priority move, and a typing that doesn't take Sandstorm damage. Shadow Ball is there because Fighting and Ghost coverage is unresisted, and obviously helps against Psychics and Ghosts.


    Well, there you have it. My best attempt at a Sand team. Obviously, it reqires tweaking, to deal with the Fighting and Ice weaknesses, and to deal with other weather teams better. Any feedback is appreciated!
  2. Nemusus

    Nemusus

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2013
    Messages:
    36
    Hi there!

    This is an interesting team, and I love using Stoutland in sand. There are three big issues I see here: The first thing is, why use Flygon? I get that you want a revenge-killer, but Stoutland is faster, has the same base attack, and isn't locked into any move. Flygon seems totally outclassed by the Stoutland here. It also speed ties with Scarf or Dragon Dance Salamence, which is a bit of a gamble.

    The second issue I see is that this team has nothing that can fight Dragons. Lucario is just too fragile, and without defense or HP investment, so is Magnezone. With that in mind, I would normally recommend replacing Flygon with Jirachi, but that makes you way too weak against Fire and Ground attacks. Therefore, I'm recommending that you try out Choice Scarf Latios, as it packs a punch, gives you another revenge-killer on the special spectrum, and it easily revenges Dragonite at +1 (after sandstorm breaks multiscale)

    Show Hide

    [pimg]381[/pimg]

    Latios @ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 Sp.A | 252 Spe | 4 HP
    Ability: Levitate
    -Draco Meteor
    -Psyshock
    -Surf
    -Trick/Hidden Power Fire

    Draco Meteor will be your STAB move of choice, nuking and beating most things that don't resist it (Blissey not withstanding). Psyshock lets you beat Blissey and hurt Chansey, while Surf beats a LOT of things, and with the ubiquity of rain teams, you can abuse the opponent's weather for a while. The last move is up to you- Trick can break stall teams if you use it on the right pokemon, while HP Fire gives Ferrothorn and Scizor the finger. Basically, you need to choose whether stall teams or those two are the bigger threat to your team. Personally, I'd go with Trick as Magnezone already beats Steel, and HP Fire reduces your Speed by 1 point, meaning you lose the speed tie with other scarfed 110 base speed Pokemon (Other Lati@s, Gengar)


    Finally, Stealth Rocks. You need them. Volcarona has little trouble against this team, as Flygon's Earthquake needs a bit of luck to 3HKO, Hippowdon can only 4HKO. Stoutland can 2HKO, but by the first time you hit with Return, Volcarona has 2 Quiver Dances and its game over for you. Stealth Rock means Stoutland kills it easily, scrapping half its health on the switch in and the other half with a Return. I get why you want Toxic on Hippowdon, but Gastrodon tends to do a better job of it, so I'd recommend chucking Stealth Rock instead of Toxic on your hippo. Also, without Toxic, you might like to replace Protect with something, maybe Roar or Ice Fang, but that's up to you.

    Speaking of Gastrodon, Stoutland has little trouble dealing with most set up Pokemon if you play smart, so I'd recommend Scald over Clear Smog. Basically, the burn lets you take hits from either end of the spectrum, and cripples physical attackers, making the slug that much more annoying.

    I tend to ramble, so tl;dr:
    -Stealth Rock>Toxic on Hippowdon
    -Scarf Latios> Scarf Flygon
    -Scald > Clear Smog on Gastrodon

    Hope this helped!
  3. deadflame

    deadflame

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    173
    Nice team. I would replace Flygon with Garchomp, though, as they have the exact same typing, while Garchomp has better bulk, attack, and speed. Garchomp would make for a much better Choice Scarf user. The only reason I can think of as to why you're using him is U-Turn and Levitate.

    Scarf Garchomp>Scarf Flygon. 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP @ Jolly Nature. Outrage/Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Aqua Tail/Fire Fang (Depending on what you want to hit harder).
  4. deadflame

    deadflame

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    173
    Hydreigon might also work. If you opt for Hydreigon, I would use this set. Mild Nature @ Choice Scarf. 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 Atk. Draco Meteor, Dark Pulse, Fire Blast, U-Turn. Draco Meteor for STAB, Dark Pulse for annoying Pokes like Jellicient and Reuniclus, Fire Blast for Forretress, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Bronzong, Jirachi, Skarmory, and Metagross, and U-Turn for scouting and maintaining momentum and switch advantage. With mild, it hits a special attack stat of 383 and a speed stat of 442. Not too shabby.
  5. ToGdor

    ToGdor

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8
    Thanks for the feedback, guys! In response to your suggestions:
    For one thing, I don't have a spinner, so anything that avoids hazards is great. Also, I just really like Flygon. But Latios also levitates, hits hard on the special side, and has Psyshock for special walls, so I'll try it out.

    As much as I like to be nonconformist, I'll submit that some entry hazards would help, and also I really love Roar, especially since I'm getting rid of Clear Smog on Gastro.

    Thanks again for the suggestions, and I'll put them all to good use! Time to test!
  6. Subject 18

    Subject 18 S H M A C K E D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

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    Hello there ToGdor, good team you have built so far, so props there. At first look I noticed that you lack a true Special Attacker with Lucario being your sole Specially based pokemon and you didn't have a hazards settlers. So let's patch that up.

    First, let's start with Flygon. Flygon in OU is pretty mediocre and there are better options for a Dragon Scarfer. I would like to suggest Choice Scarf Latios in Flygon's place. This change fixes you lack of Special attackers and gives you a way to kill Volcarona after Stealth Rocks. The set I recommend is

    Latios Set
    Show Hide

    Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Fire]


    Next I would like to suggest Rotom-Wash over Gastrodon as your team lacks a Landorus check. This still allows you to be able voltturn with Rotom-W and Magnzone. The set I recommend is the Specially Defensive set.

    Rotom-Wash Set
    Show Hide

    Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 232 HP / 56 SAtk / 220 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split


    Lastly some minor changes.
    1. Stealth Rocks over Protect on Hippowdon.
    2. Use Choice Band over Life Orb on Stoutland
    3. Try SD lucario over NP Lucario (optional)

    Hope this helps and good luck with the team.

    ~BlackRussian
  7. Debury

    Debury

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Messages:
    104
    I read this earlier to write the point BlackRussian made

    Change the life orb for a choice band on the Stoutland.

    Still hits like a freight train with return minus the small bit of HP you lose which can keep this fellow on the field an extra turn.

    Really just play to the situation but all in all... The opponent losing a few pokes because you are spamming return isn't the worst thing ever. In fact it is quite fun :)
  8. Stew0The0Jew

    Stew0The0Jew

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    88
    Good interesting team. I like it all except for Gastrodon. This is just my personal preference, but I prefer Cradily as a water-absorbing special wall in sand. My set is(I use it in Sun):
    [​IMG]
    Cradily(M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252Def / 252 Hp / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature(+Def, -Spe)
    - Recover
    - Stealth Rocks
    - Toxic
    - Giga Drain

    This is my favorite wall set for Cradily. It gives you great walling power in sand with 376/322/376 bulk in sand. Adds Stealth Rocks which you need to just general helpout. Toxic and recovery are solid for any wall and Giga Drain helps against special wall gastro who i see giving your team trouble.
  9. Zeta5

    Zeta5

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    Messages:
    99
    To be honest I think you might want to change Flygon for a scarfed Garchomp or Landorus-I. They completely outdo Flygon in many aspects. Garchomp literally has higher stats (aside from sp att which is the same). Its bulkier, stronger, and faster and is almost completely superior to Flygon. The 2 things Garchomp can't do that flygon can is u turn and levitate over ground type attacks and spikes which brings me to Lando. Lando is also faster, has more attack and even sp att if you want to use special lando(which is powerful btw) and is also bulkier(aside from spdef which is the same). Again what Flygon does that Lando can't is fire off outrages but other than that is literally better. These 2 pokes are exactly why Flygon is UU(don't get me wrong, I <3 Flygon but there are just better options).

    If you choose to ignore my suggestion i have no problem since i can't force you to obey me but I do have one thing i think you should fix on flygon ASAP. While Adamant gives you that extra power but, other base 100 and slightly lower scarfer WILL out speed and take out your Flygon which is why i suggest a timid nature over adamant.

    Hopefully I helped ya :)
  10. ToGdor

    ToGdor

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Messages:
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    I really like Cradily, and as much as I'd like to give that mammoth Sp. Def in sand, it's still weak to Fighting and Ice, two types that my team has trouble with as is. Still, I'll give it a shot, though I'm going to run a slightly different set and EV spread.

    [​IMG]
    Cradily(M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 120Def / 252 Hp / 136 SDef
    Calm Nature(+SpD, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Stockpile
    - Toxic
    - Giga Drain

    I've always liked Stockpile as a defense boosting move, it helps takes hits from both sides. Also, I'm running a more specially defensive set, since Hippowdon can take physical hits pretty well already.
  11. deadflame

    deadflame

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    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
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    I like that you're using Cradily in OU. Nobody ever will see that thing coming!

    Also, you should really get rid of Protect on Hippowdon and replace it with Stealth Rock. It's just so much more useful, and it helps out your team.

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