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Winter is Coming (Game Of Thrones-themed Hail RMT)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Delko, Jun 26, 2012.

  1. Delko

    Delko was a tab-made man
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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I've been using this team for pretty much the entire BW era, keeping it updated every time the metagame changed. The team was build around Kyurem, who is an underrated anti-metagame pokemon. The rest of the team supports this objective, while also being able to check the majority of the OU-teams, as balanced teams should do. Since BW2 is to be released I decided to retire this team for a last time, so a new team can be build from scratch. There is some potential for Hail with the move tutors becoming available, so let's hope something good comes from it. I based this team around Game Of Thrones, and more specifically the House of Stark, mainly because of their saying "Winter is Coming", but obviously also because Game of Thrones is an epic series ;)

    ---

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    *** Jon Snow ***
    Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Ice Shard
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Wood Hammer

    When coupled with Kyurem, this is arguably one the best Abomasnow sets available. It's bulk and resistances makes him a good counter against Rain teams. I went with more bulk rather then a mixed set because it lets Abomasnow stay around much longer. Leech Seed + Protect is still surprisingly effective and gives Abomasnow some form of recovery as well as being annoying to face for the opponent. Wood Hammer is a powerful STAB move and hits 3/4 other weather-starters for supereffective damage. Full power Ice Shard gives a very good check for DD-Dragons but also against stuff like Expert Belt Landorus or CM-Vizirion. The HP Evs give max Leech Seed recovery, max Attack to hit as hard as possible and the rest is added to Speed which allows Abomasnow to outspeed the likes of Tyranitar and Jellicent.

    ---

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    *** Catelyn Tully ***
    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Lava Plume
    - Earth Power
    - Roar

    Since every Hail team has problems with Fire-type attack, Heatran fits in perfectly. It's also one of the best checks for Volcarona and Sun teams in general. Thanks to it's Steel typing and more then average bulk Heatran makes a capable sponge for powerful Draco Meteors and various other resisted special attacks. Heatran provides this team with Stealth Rock support, often considered the best move in the game. And it also acts as the phazer of the team, which is useful against Baton Pass team or certain set-up sweepers like CM-Latias. I went with Earth Power in the last slot over Toxic or Protect because it allows me to hit opposing Heatran harder, as well as big portions of the aforementioned Sun teams. The EVs give Heatran alot of special bulk, except I run a little Speed to outrun opposing Heatran. I could have gone with Air Balloon here but Heatran lacks a reliable recovery move and Leftovers at least nullifies Hail damage.

    ---

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    *** Arya Stark ***
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 12 SAtk / 224 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Rapid Spin
    - Psychic
    - Recover

    The two key-pokemon on this team are weak to SR, so the use of a spinner was obvious. I ran Tentacruel in the past but Starmie has a couple of notable advantages. It's faster, it has the useful Natural Cure ability and it has access to Recover which lets it stay around most longer. It comes at a cost however, unlike Tentacruel it doesn't set-up nor absorb Toxic Spikes, but this is manageable as Starmie beats most Spinblockers anyway. Hydro Pump is preferred over the usual Scald because gets some KOs that Scald doesn't like Landorus or Heatran, and the 30% chance to Burn never happened when you need to anyway. Psychic as a coverage move to hit the Fighting-types in the tier harder as well as Gengar trying to block Rapid Spin. Dual STAB Water + Psychic give decent coverage, but other coverage-moves like Thunderbolt are sometimes missed though. The EVs let Starmie outspeed everything up to base 111's (Tornadus), and the 12 SAtk EVs make sure Psychic kills Gengar 100% of the time. The rest is used to increase it's overall bulk.

    ---

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    *** Robb Stark ***
    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Pursuit
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Bullet Punch

    Scizor has been in the top 5 of most used pokemon for a while now and for good reason. It provides a good offensive presence and it checks a big part of the metagame as well. Even though people like to run many different Scizor sets these days, I found the CB set to still be more then good enough. U-turn needs no real explanation but is a good move to keep momentum on my side up. With Bullet Punch he revenge kills a lot of set-up sweepers and it's also his "best move" in general. Pursuit lets me trap things whenever that's needed and Superpower isn't really used a lot but it helps against the likes of DD Scrafty or opposing Scizor in case I lose Heatran to their Superpower. The EVs are standard, with near max HP investment to give good bulk as well as minimize hazard damage. Max Attack to hit as hard as possible. The strategydex puts the remaining EVs in SDef but I put them in Speed, you never know when you need speed-tie with opposing Scizor.

    ---

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    *** Theon Greyjoy ***
    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 44 Def / 220 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Taunt
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake

    Gliscor has always been one of my favorite pokes to use on a Hail team and thanks to Poison Heal it's fits even better this gen. Gliscor is here to take on the physical behemoths take threaten the team; Terrakion, Lucario, Conkeldurr etc. But it also acts as a more then capable Stallbreaker with a combination of Taunt + Toxic. Protect lets him scout Choice users, get an additional turn of Poison Heal recovery and stalls for 1 turn of Poison. Earthquake makes a nice mono-attack option as it hits the majority of Gliscor's foes hard enough. The HP Evs provide maximum Poison Heal recovery and the Speed lets him outspeed a variety of threats including Lucario, Toxicroak and opposing SubToxicStall Gliscor. The remaining EVs are put in Def for some increased physical bulk.

    ---

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    *** Eddard "Ned" Stark ***
    Kyurem @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 56 HP / 236 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Blizzard
    - Focus Blast

    For me Kyurem is the main reason to run Hail, and this is a very deadly set. Kyurem is bulky to run this kind of set as weaker hits like Scald, Volt Switch or Ice Beam won't even break the Substitute. Behind it, safe from revenge killing and status, Kyurem can spam powerful hits in the form of dual STAB Blizzard and Dragon Pulse, combined with the albeit shaky Focus Blast provides neutral coverage against pretty much all OU pokes. The HP EVs give 405 HP which means Seismic Toss/Night Shade will never break the Sub and it allows Kyurem to switch into Stealth Rock 4 times. The Speed EVs makes sure it can outspeed the likes of Dragonite and Adamant Lucario, but getting up a Sub as soon as possible never hurts. The rest is dumped in SAtk to, again, hit as hard as possible.

    ---​

    Importable (open)
    Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Ice Shard
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Wood Hammer

    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Lava Plume
    - Earth Power
    - Roar

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 12 SAtk / 224 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Rapid Spin
    - Psychic
    - Recover

    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Pursuit
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Bullet Punch

    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 44 Def / 220 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Taunt
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake

    Kyurem @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 56 HP / 236 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Blizzard
    - Focus Blast


    I hope you enjoyed this RMT. Feel free to post suggestions, comments or whatever bellow and I'll try to get back at you. Thanks!
  2. Delko

    Delko was a tab-made man
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    Threatlist

    1. HP Ground Volcarona;
    2. Stone Edge Gyarados (sometimes the ones with Taunt > Substitute too);
    3.

    (I'll complete this and character descriptions asap).
  3. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn the hidden heart of the ocean
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    Lol wow, Delko back with another great RMT.

    No time to give this a full rate at the moment, but I'll keep this as a placeholder until I do.

    All I can say for now is that it looks solid. Every weakness I think of is checked by at least 2 Pokes.
  4. King of Blades

    King of Blades

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    Ooh boy, another delko hail RMT. I'll take another placeholder for rate, as this is such a well-constructed team that no weaknesses will stand out to me without the threat list that I see you will put in later. You should use one of your hail teams in a major smogon tournament just for kicks and see how it goes. (What's your next hail RMT? It should have a snorlax!) You also misspelled threatlist as treatlist, but your hail teams are always a treat, (That pun WAS intended.) so I can overlook that.

    EDIT: ~Luvdisc'd~

    EDIT EDIT: Well, now that the threatlist is up... In order to patch up your weakness to volcarona a slight bit, I suggest going with quick attack over pursuit or superpower on scizor. Most volcarona that carry hidden power ground run offensive sets, so they will take good damage from quick attack. While it most certainly isn't an answer, it might give you a better chance of beating it.
  5. Stone_Cold

    Stone_Cold
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    You lose to skarm bliss.

    And +1 Hp Ground volc.
  6. Speed Boost

    Speed Boost

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    Wow, great team man. The only thing I might change is the EVs on Heatran. It's out sped by the standard Specially Defensive Heatran, Adamant Offensive Swords Dance Scizor, Bulk Up Toxicroak and Sub Punch Toxicroak. All of these Pokemon can hurt your Heatran, but would be out sped by the standard Specially Defensive EV spread. They are also Pokemon Heatran can hurt with a Lava Plume or an Earth Power. Just a little nit pick though.
  7. bubbly

    bubbly

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    Omfg Delko stop stealing my teams lol. This is pretty much exactly my current setup, although I prefer Latias > Scizor to deal with Thundurus / Tornadus better and still beat Reuniclus (also I use Scarf Lando-T over Gliscor but w/e). Few things; I really think the team would benefit from a more offensive Abomasnow set, and Tentacruel > Starmie. I like EBelt Aboma with Wood Hammer / Earthquake / HP Fire / Ice Shard; e.g., switch into a Gliscor etc, EQ to kill Heatran / Jirachi switchin, Kyurem has a much cleaner sweep.

    Second, the whole team really benefits from Toxic Spikes. They really hurt stall and Sand teams; typical sand teams can only get rid of them using either Amoonguss or Starmie, both of which are setup fodder for Kyurem. Gliscor obviously likes not having to use Toxic; and both Heatran and Kyurem like having them to get past Blissey and SpDef Jellicent. Gliscor and Scizor and Tentacruel should honestly be enough to handle Terrakion; genie Landorus would get slightly more problematic, but no-one uses it now and you still have Aboma and Kyurem to help out.
  8. Delko

    Delko was a tab-made man
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    Thanks for the suggestions everyone :)

    If Gliscor is played correctly, it should be able to handle any kind of Stall, including SkarmBliss. I know that Gliscor can't touch Skarmory but Taunt + Protect + EQ/ Toxic (doesn't hit it but it gives a "free turn" for Brave Bird recoil) with Hail up will beat it most of the time, same goes for Ferrothorn who can just Power Whip when Taunt'ed. If Blissey for some weird reason has Ice Beam then a combination of Abomasnow + Pursuit Scizor can weaken it enough for Kyurem to beat both the pink blob as well as Skarmory. Chansey is easier then Blissey because it also takes Hail damage since it lacks Leftovers and it will never carry Ice Beam.

    Imo, every team is Volcarona weak, but you are correct. In this case I have to hope Gliscor is at full health so it can Toxic it.

    I guess that 160 Spe EVs can come in handy but personally I prefer more bulk. Most of the pokes you listed though are covered by the others well enough though, as Gliscor checks Toxicroak and SD Scizor (if it has Roost it doesn't have Superpower) and opposing specially defensive Heatran usually only have Lava Plume to attack with. But like I said, more Speed is definitely viable here.

    Tbh I haven't tried this team in the new BW2 metagame nor Dream World yet, so I don't know what the "big threats" there are. But Latias is indeed an option over Scizor and I ran that in an earlier version of the team, but Pursuit is nice and really helpful on occasions. I also had Tentacruel originally but without recovery it died to fast. And with the rise of those HO teams that utilize SR + Spikes Deoxys-D and Gengar to spinblock, Starmie is just very effective against those type of teams. But I get your point, Toxic Spikes would indeed come in handy against Blissey and Jellicent, but they are still manageable. Thanks for the rate.
  9. Myzozoa

    Myzozoa Throw-up on the internet, or get off on TV
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    I have no real suggestions, this is as solid as hail can ever be. You must be aware of how weak you are to Tyranitar and Lati@s with HP fire. There is no way to fix this unless you really love Pursuit Metagross, which may be an alternative to Scizor. I also support Tentacruel over Starmie as another possibility, though I think you have decided against this. This looks like a team built around SubKyurem, and that's really cool, but I think Kyurem may be too cute to try to fit on this team. Your stallish strategy might be better served by a Choice Scarf variant, or another defensive pokemon altogether. The success of this team is a testament to your ability to make good decisions as a battler. I think that you need to be very aggressive with this team to avoid losing to such things as Reuniclus or even Gyarados., but I don't think you need my advice on how to play your team.
  10. yee

    yee
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    BW2 is gonna be kind to this, you can run Roost over Protect while keeping Poison Heal on Glisc to beat Skarmbliss even in hail. I agree with Myzozoa that a revenge killer would be handy but its up to you to decide if playing around things is worth it. Good job overall I like the team a lot!
  11. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown Have you ever tried the tropical flavour?
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Hey Delko,

    This team looks really good, but it's a bit weak to stall teams, especially if they carry Jellicent or/and Ice Fang Gliscor, as you won't be able to spin and your Gliscor won't be able to Toxic Stall stuff.

    Since Psychic is not that useful on Starmie (as Hydro Pump + Gliscor are enough for dealing with most Fighting type pokemon in the tier) I would replace it with Thunderbolt, so it can have an easier time spinning against Jellicent and it will make Starmie a decent Gyarados check, a pokemon that can give you problems when played well.

    To help with your stall weakness, the best change would be using a Mixed Abomasnow set. However, since most people expect Expert Belt when they don't see Leftovers recovery nowadays, it could be wise to use Leftovers instead, even if Abomasnow lose out on some KOs. I guess it's up to preference though.

    Abomasnow@Expert Belt | Snow Warning
    Lonely Nature | 252 Atk / 144 SpA / 112 Spe
    Ice Shard / Blizzard / Wood Hammer / Hidden Power Fire
  12. Candice

    Candice

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    Great team Delko ! I have the exact same one and the exact movesets lol but I use Tentacruel instead of Starmie just because she is weak to Pursuit.
    So I can really tell it's a well made team because I know how it works ^^
    I guess Banded Terrakion is a pain but that's for every team...
    Dnite must be dangerous if he has leftovers and you didn't get your rocks up.
    What about Cloyster, do you handle him well after a Shell Smash boost?
    I play Hail 90% of the time so I might try Starmie again to see how it goes !
    I love Game of Thrones ! can't wait for Season 3 to get released :D
  13. august

    august get a grip mothafucka
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnuswon the 5th Official Smogon Tournamentis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

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    Imo, since you have Gliscor to cover Conkeldurr pretty decently, why not run Psyshock on Starmie? Gives you something better to handle CM Virizion and some other bulky CM boosters a bit harder. Definitely really picky, but if you do that you can also put those 12 SAtk EVs into Defense or SDef, where ever you feel you may need them. Also not sure if you're interested, but unless you absolutely need Starmie switching in on Tran, you could change around your EVs so you're a bit more physically bulky, and still able to switch in on SDef Tran (although not as well vs offensive balloon tran)

    But yeah great team :toast: i love hail, and kyurem dominates right now considering its such an anti metagame pkmn
  14. Jerp

    Jerp

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    Interesting, a winter team, I think I'm gonna steal this one...

    Don't have enough time for a full rate, but from first glance, you have a weakness to Infernape, resisted by only one pokemon on your team. Combine that with a scarf latios running tbolt, and your team could face serious problems.

    But aside from that, nothing I can see from my 5 minute look.
  15. Delko

    Delko was a tab-made man
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    Alright, sorry it took awhile but here are to responses. Again, thanks for the comments ^^

    @ Myzozoa + yee; Metagross sounds interesting actually. I'll also try Scarf Kyurem, thanks!

    @ DestinyUnknown; Stall isn't really a problem as Gliscor deals with a big portion of it. Jellicent can be played around with by Toxic'ing it with Gliscor, or just kill it with a non-burned Abomasnow :p Even though I prefer the bulkier set, I'll try the Abomasnow set you suggested, thanks!

    @ Candice; I also had Tentacruel over Starmie orginally, but like I mentioned HO teams based around Spiking Deoxys-D + Gengar were a huge problem. Starmie beats Gengar which fixes that threat. Toxic Spikes were useful though, I have to agree with that. Starmie has a recovery move though, which is also appreciated.

    @ august; Thanks, Hail is awesome indeed ;)
    About Psychic vs Psyshock, it's a matter of preference I suppose. I did have Psyshock in the past actually and they're both useful. I went with Psychic in the end because stuff like BU Conkeldurr, Breloom are bigger threats to the team then CM Virizion etc. Psychic also has the potential of lower SDef which can be useful at times too.
  16. Da Vinci

    Da Vinci

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    You once told me that you started making your teams by firsting picking a main pokemon (kyurem) to build the team around and then picked a core. If i may ask, what is the core you used in this team?
  17. Motagua

    Motagua El Ciclón Azul

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    Hey there Delko, nice to see another great Hail RMT of yours. Btw, I love the series because it has such an epic story that thrills me <3. I have nothing else to say but I believe that you can run Psyshock over Psychic on Starmie as BU Conkeldurr is already handled by Gliscor and with those 8 Speed EVs on Heatran you outspeed BU Breloom, neverless as you said before, that is a matter of preference.

    My suggestion might be to run Quick Attack instead of Pursuit on Scizor as King of Blades mentioned early. Most Volcaronas that carry a Hidden Power are usually offensive, without bulk investment, and Quick Attack will take a big chunk of health where Hail recoil damage can do the rest with Protect spaming and prediction. Luvdisc´d and I hope again to see one of your wonderful teams again :D
  18. Magma

    Magma

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    As always, very solid Hail team Delko. However, I have a few ideas that might improve the team.

    Since you're relying on Offensive Hail Pokes like Heatran and Scizor (who are not really built for Hail Semi-Stall,) I think you should try Salamence > Gliscor to maintain the team's offensive pace. The Dragon Dance set (with Lum Berry) and the Classic MixMence set (with Brick Break) both work here. I hate to turn your team into a complete copy of Tomahawk9's hail team, but Salamence really helps fill your HP Ground Volcarona weakness while still maintaining the teams Fighting and Ground resistance. As you know, Dual Dragon cores work wonders on Offensive Hail teams since you have 2 Dragons breaking down walls for each other while priority moves from Abomasnow and Scizor revenge opposing Dragons. I can understand if you might feel like this switch is opening a hole to Tyranitar and Terrakion, but a Gliscor with 220 Speed EVs wasn't really containing Rock attacks anyway. Also, Scizor and Starmie have little trouble revenging these threats. HP Ground Volcarona is much more concerning since it's fairly common on HO teams and there's no one on your current roster who can revenge it. (If you don't like the Salamence suggestion at all and decide to stick with Gliscor, then you should definitely try a more Offensive set with Swords Dance > Protect and Facade/Ice Fang > Toxic.)

    Sticking with the offensive nature of this rate, I'm also suggesting Mixed sets on Abomasnow and Kyurem for even more wall breaking. Mixed Abomasnow > Physical Abomasnow can severely weaken annoying Steels to the point where one of your two Dragons can KO them. Here's the set: Mixed Attacker (with Earthquake > Blizzard) (you can also try Leftovers > Expert Belt or Giga Drain > Wood Hammer for extra survivability.) That takes care of Abomasnow, so now allow me to focus on the star of the show - Sub Kyurem. With a Quiet nature > a Modest nature, 216 Atk EVs > 216 Spd EVs, and Outrage > Dragon Pulse your team's central focus becomes much more efficient at wall breaking than the standard Sub set. Rather than running into a PP stall match with Blissey, Mixed Sub Kyurem can simply 2HKO the pink blob with a 120 Dragon attack since Hail negates its Leftovers. IMO, this is more than enough reason to use Mixed Sub Kyurem > Special Sub Kyurem. Yeah, the massive speed drop hurts, but isn't a huge deal since you have Gliscor/Salamence for SD Lucario/Toxicroak and Abomasnow/Scizor for DD/CB Dragonite.

    Hope my ideas helped. Good luck!
  19. Rainteams

    Rainteams

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    Hey I tested your team out a little bit and its perfect I've only lost one battle! but How do you counter a keldeo with your team keldeo out speeds all the pokemons u can get a super effective hit with and lands a super effective hit of its own. So that is my question ho do you counter an offensive keldeo?
  20. Stone RG

    Stone RG Megas are broke
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    I personally think that, even though u have gliscor on the team, terrakion is big threat (not that any team is really prepared for him) the EV spread just doesnt seem like to wall him, in fact, after rocks and hail damage, youre still in 2HKO range, since none of your pokes like switching into a CB stone [miss] edge. Sub SD set seems like a mayor threat as well even though its quite underrated.

    I thought about slowbro instead of starmie, but hazards are hail's worst enemy, i think changing gliscor to the standard set would be the best bet.

    Almost forgot to say if starmie is gone techniloom does good damage to your entire team so there another reason not to change it (however youre current gliscor isnt exactly walling loom after +2).
  21. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
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    Psyshock is superior on your starmie over psychic because it ohko's gengar anyway, but Keldeo is a large threat to your entire team and you fail to 2hko EVER in non-hail (~52% max), and you have to hope for higher damage rolls during hail.

    Also a - attack rock slide from Kyurem always ohko's Volcarona, however it will always be ohko'd by a + 1 bug buzz after rocks. A spread of 228 HP / 56 Spdef Calm will allow you to live that bug buzz after rocks assuming you want to still outspeed neutral base 90's.

    I also second the idea of quick attack over scizor. Locking yourself into pursuit gives your opponent an opportunity to set up and take back the momentum of the game, and QA another way to deal with the fire types on sun teams. Additionally, 212 HP EVs and 44 speed EVs ensure that you outspeed 0 speed politoed by 2 points, which may turn out to be essential when you have to u-turn against it (you can always run a few more if you're paranoid of them running speed). your team handles scarf politoed relatively well with Kyurem, starmie and abomasnow.

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