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Wonder Launcher

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Blazen, Oct 4, 2010.

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What do you think of Miracle Shooter?

  1. It's a great addition, I hope it becomes standard.

    38 vote(s)
    9.0%
  2. It's a great addition, but I want it separate from the main metagame.

    162 vote(s)
    38.6%
  3. Not sure, it needs to be tested before I can judge it.

    98 vote(s)
    23.3%
  4. I hate it, but don't see any harm.

    19 vote(s)
    4.5%
  5. I hate it, keep it away from my metagame.

    103 vote(s)
    24.5%
  1. Bynine

    Bynine

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    Parafusion, Paratractfusion, etc.
  2. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    <size=9001>NO!</size>

    This destroys the concepts of counters and checks, which is what the metagame is built on. Get this shit away from my metagame, I never want to hear from it again. Take the game of chess for example, you manage to lure their queen and you're about to win... What do you mean it respawned! Same thing here, this will royally fuck over the metagame. Just no.
  3. Blazen

    Blazen

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
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    79

    In chess, if you get a pawn all the way across the board, it is promoted to any piece you choose (excluding kings, and pawns). soooooo yeah.
  4. GolemGuy

    GolemGuy

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
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    I don't understand why people don't like this. It takes a significant amount of turns for a useful item to be used, and Stall needs as much as it can get this gen. Besides, you can do a nearly endless plethora of options against an item user. Did they just Max Revive their Blissey? Switch out a Chomp and Swords Dance. Or you could just use a +6 Atk anyway.

    This should at least be standard at the beginning of the metagame. If it ends up in an overcentralized metagame, ban it. This, OHKO, Evasion, and the Ubers should be in the same boat, tbh.
  5. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
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    If I took my opponent's queen but failed to notice thier pawn heading towards the end of my board for the last 5 turns or so (and did nothing with my own pawns in the meantime), then I'd be a pretty bad player.

    There is no surprise factor that comes from miracle shooter. If reviving or curing a pokemon once every 14 turns is broken, then ban blissey because it can fully heal in two turns instead.

    If your opponent needs the revive, then you can STILL PREDICT THEM! Hmmm, I wonder what my opponent is going to do on turn 14. Revive his dead sweeper/etc? I think I'll take this time to send in and boost my own sweeper, making his revive useless.
  6. Jayceja

    Jayceja

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
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    55
    also, if you kill his blissey and he revives it, you have still robbed him of a potential +6 X-item
  7. ensoriki

    ensoriki

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    222
    I think it's very interesting and I wouldn't say it's broken, except for say that +6 item thingy.
    The normal x items broken by this system? Obviously not, the only reason to use a turn with X attack when a pokemon can DD, is so that you can replace dragon dance's slot with something else, even then it'll take you longer to get +1 attack and speed.

    I don't think stall is empowered by this completely at all.
    The addition of those support items from early on means you COULD stall to x amount of points, but I could be setting up, and even IF you taunt me, X attack can't be taunted, im getting a boost regardless and sweeping your stall ass.

    If two opponents save up their points, they'll just keep reviving up counters and likely stalemate their time limit if anything, and that probably won't happen as someone just needs a smart prediction to end it.

    It should be separate from the standard metagame, but a Miracle Shooter ladder would be very interesting to see where it goes.
  8. Azure Demon

    Azure Demon Guest

    That won't work all the time if even half the time, you do understand that? What if the pokemon they revive is one that you just barely managed to ko and it outspeeds or has super effective priority on your current pokemon the you had just set up with. So say most of your pokemon are weaked and your sweeper is an infernape. he can bring back his azumarill and gg you with aqua jets and such

    I think we should still give the shooter a shot it will make it really fun by adding a new element to the game. But what we could do is make it to where certain aspects of the shooter are not allowed. for example we didn't like soul dew on latias so we banned that we didn't ban all items together
  9. Lucario1337

    Lucario1337

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
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    18
    Stall will absolutely LOVE this because the whole point of stall is to make battles longer right. So hey your gengar is sweeping my super weakened team revive blissey and lol.
  10. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
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    1,367
    I like it, since as it lessens the need for Aromatherapy and Wish, Miracle Shooter battles will be seeing marginally less Blissey.
  11. Azure Demon

    Azure Demon Guest

    If something is good enough to remove the best spdef wall from the game then you know it's broken and shouldn't be allowed. I'm for the miracle shooter but you shouldn't use this as a post if you don't want it banned
  12. Arc Tech

    Arc Tech

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
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    740
    Marginally means just a bit.
    Plus I think we will be seeing more blissey with + 6 def...
    But that takes a while. I still think it needs testing.
  13. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    We will definitely still be seeing a lot of Blissey, but people will only be using her because she is a good special wall. Meaning, people will not use her just for her utilities. Basically, the Cleric set will fall into disuse. Meaning I don't have to use her!
  14. Azure Demon

    Azure Demon Guest

    I know what it means I just missed the marginally part
    But still it shouldn't effect her usage especially thanks to the new function of wish and the new healing heart ability helps
    Honestly what else is blissey truly good for besides that it's a special wall/support poke it can't really don't anything else
  15. GolemGuy

    GolemGuy

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    Sep 18, 2010
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    Now, this is a terrible excuse for anything being broken.

    Starmie was a sweeper for the last couple of gens. This does not mean that if Starmie ends up being obsolete, then whatever makes it obsolete should be banned.

    Besides, when you really think about it, Blissey is much the same as Rampardos, except Blissey walls while Rampardos sweeps. Rampardos is definetly not wide-spread.

    The metagame SHOULD NOT be based on prior metagames. If Blissey isn't common, no one should care.
  16. Azure Demon

    Azure Demon Guest

    No it's really not a bad excuse at all. Tell me another great special wall with super high hp/and spdef as high as blissey's while only having one weakness and also the ability to completely heal many pokemon in the game using wish.
    I said the shooter should not lessen blissey's usage. if blissey losses useage goes down due to this shooter it is broken an item should not replace the use of a pokemon but If it goes down due to say Terakion usage that's fine
  17. TacoBot

    TacoBot

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    Nov 28, 2008
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    Blissey has much more important roles than healing. Of course it'll stay in usage. Why are you talking as if Miracle Shooter being able to revive a Pokemon will kill Blissey usage? It's just less WishBliss and more not-sitting-duck Bliss.
  18. Azure Demon

    Azure Demon Guest

    I'm not I'm talking about a post made earlier. But no blissey really doesn't have many uses besides a special wall/support pokemon
    And I can believe you said less wishbliss. That thing will become probably the most used blissey set, do to wish now healing half the ammout of the users hp. Blissey can top the charts at over 650 hp meaning it can heal over 300 hp per wish to any pokemon. In my opinion blissey has never truly been a sitting duck, she has multiple ways to slow down her opponents and take control of a situation, and I mean of both physical and special attackers.
  19. LightningLord2

    LightningLord2

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    Oct 25, 2009
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    It's amazing how many people dislike Miracle Shooter and accept it as okay. It's really a base of pure extremes. I always want to try deep and hard-to-predict metagames that rely on heavy strategic thinking.

    -That guy who wanted a Battle Palace ladder to be made
  20. Azure Demon

    Azure Demon Guest

    Lol yeah I'm one of those guys I kind of dislike it but I'll try it as long as we ban certain aspects of it like the max revive is garbage
  21. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

    Joined:
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    Honestly, I could see how that would be a problem. Really though it could go both ways. If they send in their max revived azumarill, can't you do anything with the points you may have stored up to try and act against this?

    I see what you mean though. If anything revivng pokemon won't be a huge issue as battles shouldn't ever last that long. Even against stall.
  22. LightningLord2

    LightningLord2

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    Unless it's stall vs. stall
  23. TacoBot

    TacoBot

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    I was actually talking about that guy whom you quoted as well. I got confused because of the wording of your post that I posted after.

    It's possible that there will be less WishBliss in Miracle Shooter, since you can save for a Hyper Potion or a Full Restore as well, and most times teams only need one; so you use it to heal your sweeper and send it in to beat up stuff.

    Lots of Pokemon take advantage of Blissey and will continue to; an extra one moveslot can pack a vital move that stops an enemy from coming in (Flamethrower and Ice Beam on the same set to get Scizor and Duggy), or it could be your slot to bring Aromatherapy instead. Anything goes.
  24. petrie911

    petrie911

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
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    it takes 14 turns to get a Max revive. That's 14 turns you aren't using any of the cheaper items.

    Really, everyone's freaking out about the expensive items. What sweeper needs +6? X items 2 and X items 3 seem far more interesting. Think of how many sweepers are exceedingly dangerous at +2. Now consider that you can give any one of your sweepers a free +2 every five turns. That +6 or Max Revive won't help you much when your opponent has already destroyed your tean with the much cheaper +2.

    What does Dire Hit 3 do? Instant maximum crit stage? Seems kind of worthless next to instant +3.
  25. Blazen

    Blazen

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    Dec 7, 2009
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    My guess as far as DH 3, is that it would be 100% crits. That is extremely useful.

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