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Wonder Launcher

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Blazen, Oct 4, 2010.

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What do you think of Miracle Shooter?

  1. It's a great addition, I hope it becomes standard.

    38 vote(s)
    9.0%
  2. It's a great addition, but I want it separate from the main metagame.

    162 vote(s)
    38.6%
  3. Not sure, it needs to be tested before I can judge it.

    98 vote(s)
    23.3%
  4. I hate it, but don't see any harm.

    19 vote(s)
    4.5%
  5. I hate it, keep it away from my metagame.

    103 vote(s)
    24.5%
  1. ATinuviel

    ATinuviel

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Messages:
    43
    Looking back at the list, I think I'm much more fascinated by Flat Call, which seems to eliminate stat boosts from a boosted pokemon.

    At a cost of 9, it's a great tradeoff against the x6 boost, which costs a whopping 12 points. Much more people would probably choose the x3 (cost of 7) and the x2 (cost of 5).

    Access to xAccuracy could also mark a greater use of Hypnosis, Sleep Powder, and (god forbid) Grasswhistle.

    Another great use of the Miracle Shooter I can see is that it can free up a slot of pokemons that rely on things like Sword Dance or Nastly Plot. Pokemons suffering from 4-slot syndrome can now free up a slot to add in a move that could complete its coverage.
  2. waffles101

    waffles101

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2010
    Messages:
    245
    I personally hate people using items in game and this encourages it. This wont increase the rate of stall because every turn you stall, your opponent gets an item.
    I am against this at if it is enforced in Shoddy I will be playing heavy offence (if implay at all)
  3. Dances with Ninjas

    Dances with Ninjas

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Messages:
    93
    A better fighting game comparison would be to Guilty Gear XX: Accent Core, which is very balanced while still maintaining an incredible variety of characters, and it owes that to the amount of universal options that every character has access to (instant blocking, false roman cancels, dead angle attacks, slash backs, faultless defense, etc.). Giving every team access to items is more likely to make a lot more Pokemon and strategies viable than not.
  4. Blazen

    Blazen

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    79

    You can only use items on your own Poke, so it is likely to see use as a recovery from stat drops.
  5. Pokémon Trainer R

    Pokémon Trainer R

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    137
    I think it would be a cool addition to the battling environment.
  6. NeoSeth

    NeoSeth

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
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    276
    It seems to me that, initially, stall teams have an advantage. They protract the battles and gain Max revives to use on incredibly bulky Pokemon. Although, I guess it works in reverse since they might potentially have to wear down a sweeper all over again. Regardless, I'm against it.
  7. Naxte

    Naxte

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
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    1,320
    However, it's not so simple as you make it seem. The ability to get Max Revives at all is very nice and may seem to push things way in stall's favor, but there are a few kinks. First off, it takes 14 whole points to get a Max Revive, or, in other words, you can only get one every 14 turns, and that's assuming you don't use any other items during those turns. That's quite a significant amount of time. Even in most stall matches, you'd be lucky if you managed to get more than two Max Revives, with how long it takes to earn one, and again, that's assuming you weren't tempted to use something like a Full Heal/Restore somewhere in there.

    But there's another problem on top of that, one that surprisingly few people seem to have noticed and shows that Game Freak really seems to have thought this out more than we might think. Take a good look at the item choices. At first glance, it seems there's everything a person could want--Full Heals, Full Restores, Revives, Max Revives, even X Items and more powerful versions of them. Those cover the bases, for the most part. However, there's one category of items that are strangely absent: PP restoring items. Leppa Berries, Ethers, Elixirs, Max Ethers, and Max Elixirs are all not choices on the Miracle Shooter.

    This is quite significant. Going back to the cost of Max Revive, it takes 14 turns to earn one. That's practically all of the PP of a move like Recover. So well yes, stall can quite easily last that long, but it would have burnt through a lot of PP by that point. In addition, Revives and Max Revives don't restore PP, so if you revive a fainted Pokemon, if it was out of say Stone Edge PP when it died, it'll still be out when it's brought back.

    Had stuff like Max Elixirs actually been item choices, I'd be worried about this format, but as it is, I really think this would turn out fine (and even if they did have them as choices, we could have just banned those particular items if they were too problematic, but they're fortunately not, so there's nothing to worry about there) and am quite interested in how a metagame with the Miracle Shooter allowed would develop.
  8. heroic poke

    heroic poke

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    100
    THIS. Laugh as your stall opponent revives his Blissey only to realize that it hasn't got any PP left for ANYTHING. No Softboiled = DEATH. AGAIN.
  9. Its_A_Random

    Its_A_Random The imitated
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
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    This. Some people seem to have thought WTF Game Freak when they decided to do this, but I reckon it's not as stupid as some might think. It seems to me that GF have clearly thought it through when they created this. It was clearly designed for competitive battling & they deliberately made a few exclusions from the list to avoid it from being grossly broken...except Ether's on the list, according to Serebii (Worth 12 points).

    If there's one playstyle that will want something like this, it's stall. Just think of the possibilities you can do with this. You lose a key member & you have more than 14 points on the Miracle Shooter, you can revive the fallen teamate & turn the tables on your opponent.

    However, I see one flaw with this: using this would give the opponent one turn to set up. And that could be disastrous if something like Salamence came in on your Pokemon & Salamence set up Dragon Dance while you used the Miracle Shooter for whatever reason.

    All in all, I think this deserves a test at least & we shall see soon enough if this has a place in the metagame.
  10. Articanus

    Articanus

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,032
    One thing people need to realize is that you don't have to use a Max Revive as soon as you get it. Same for any of the items; the points add up and you can use them to turn the match around at a moment's notice.

    I like it. ;)
  11. Death Phenomeno

    Death Phenomeno I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
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    902
  12. Green Thunder

    Green Thunder

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2010
    Messages:
    432
    I don't approve >=(

    I'm not a "samefag"(I'm gay but theirs a diffrence!) but I really don't like this feature. I can't stand it when trainers ingame use potions and crud but when if other people start doing it...If any one even mentions this around me I might imploed.

    ^please don't ever post a video with such a craptastic narrator EVER AGAIN!
  13. The Pokemon Pimp

    The Pokemon Pimp

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    662
    I think it could be potentially viable for a metagame, but that it shouldn't be a part of the standard battle metagame we're so accustomed to. It's too different.

    Of note, it would be cool to have a Standard, a Dream World, and a Miracle Shooter ladder this generation.
  14. auaua

    auaua

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2010
    Messages:
    63
    It is something that we could try out, like in some kind of tournament. But it might not be wise to make a metagame out of it. All those X-items will probably be spammed so much.
  15. King Yoshi

    King Yoshi

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
    Messages:
    54
    I sort of noticed this already. Just saying.

    Someone mentioned Ether for 12 points. Even if this is true, it's 12 points for... a few PP? Seems like a waste, even for stall, so I think that would be moot anyways.

    Another thing I've noticed is that most of the people against this seem to be afraid of the whole aspect of having the opponent able to use items (brought on by Elite Four annoyances) or fear of the X items (which could potentially be canceled by the call move or just regular phazers/Scarf Ditto/killing the poke before it attacks.

    Anyways, hoping the haters don't bring this to metagame oblivion because of irrational fears and such. People need to see the light that this will be fair and balnced in the metagame, and even then we can ban problematic items.

    The X items seem to be a big deal, but I'm certain there will be a crapton of counters waiting in the ranks, like Scarf Ditto.
  16. Ryanide

    Ryanide

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    300
    You're quite right about that. Guilty Gear had some good balance going for it, aside from maybe Eddie being somewhat OP in most versions.
  17. lazerfreak8

    lazerfreak8

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Messages:
    5
    im still hoping stall gets a chance, remember that offensive teams get this too.not many teams can go through lucario twice, so i doubt stall will easily counter whatever gen 5 hands out [to offense] twice either.
  18. Athrosu

    Athrosu

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    60
    Honestly, I think this'll be great as a wallbreaker, and I also think that's more of the original idea. No more fifty-turn PP stalls, because even if you're stuck and can't do anything against the enemy wall, those points will build up and can give you a shot at breaking through.

    It's also going to reward good strategy in spades. Who wins, the player who waits five turns for a Swords Dance, the player who waits twelve turns for three Swords Dances, or the player who brings in a DD Gyarados and is ready to sweep in 1-2 turns?
  19. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Heh, I kind of wonder how LC players would react to Miracle Shooter. All you need is 2 turns for a regular Potion, and that alone basically restores 75-100% of a pokemon's health in Little Cup. Apparently Berry Juice is completely ridiculous there. Now picture the equivalent to Berry Juice being available after just 2 turns, and even more for every 2 turns after. That, and you get to hold a different item instead of devoting the slot to Berry Juice. All I can say is that it would be kinda funny to watch (maybe not funny for the person who has to deal with it...but funny for the people watching. xD)
  20. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,367
    Wonder Launcher

    You know Skill Call? I wonder what that would do for Anger Point.

    If it does what I hope it does, then Tauros should be great.
  21. Kindrindra

    Kindrindra

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    Messages:
    221

    As you're forgetting, people can't simply spam recovery items. You have to wait a while to get one.


    This, pretty much.
  22. StarmanXL

    StarmanXL

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,447
    Yeah okay question: why is most everyone complaining about Miracle Launcher being broken (X items and Full Revive being the most common complaints it seems) not considering the fact that if we test it and find something is broken we can, y'know, clause that shit. Like Full Revive's broken? Ban it, limit it to one use per game, etc etc. Don't seem all that complicated, we impose similar restrictions on the metagame already (Sleep Clause, Species Clause, yadda yadda yadda). Not saying it's broken or not, but it definitely deserves a test. Who knows, it may be a load of fun and provide for a more interesting metagame?

    Also, why is everyone assuming you'd use Full Revive or whatever as soon as you get it? Doesn't seem all that inconceivable that you'd save it for when the time was right like how you save ubercharge in a TF2 match until your team has the advantage and can push in. It'd be pretty stupid to revive your Garchump or something only to let some other important pokemon die as a result and then be at a disadvantage when you switch in rather than save it for a safer time.
  23. NDenizen

    NDenizen

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2010
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    452
    This, alongside Triple and Rotation battles, adds some really interesting elements to normal pokemon battle.

    This would transform the act of battling into something more like an RPG, where items become a use. KOing a pokemon isn't an absolute end, so you need to consider threats even when they're "gone".

    People complain about it, but it's just another interesting part of the game.
  24. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,624
    Game Freak really trolled us good this time round with this.

    However seriously, it would be best to create a separate metagame and test it. We already have a separate meta for DW, so why not for MS? It would be worthwhile to see how does MS affect the metagame.

    That again, I was just thinking: Bulky boosters like Shinbora, Reuniculus, Zuruzukin and Roop may rise A LOT in usage. Being able to take hits and hit back hard is quite useful, and you are still stalling for MS points.
  25. BetterEdThanSmeg

    BetterEdThanSmeg

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
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    18
    Hmm i dont really know what to think about it. Spose its cool if you want to revive your most dangerous sweeper so it can cause havoc again. However Battles will take WAY too long if people just keep spamming potions, revives, PP restoring items and all that. although if that is the case then The Move Embargo might actually become pretty useful in Miracle shooter (Or wonder launcher or whatever it is) Battles?

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