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Wrecking ball

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by flowapowa, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. flowapowa

    flowapowa

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Hello, flowapowa here. I just started to play this game for about a few months now. I felt the need to ask for some help, because I stopped improving and I can't seem to get past 1700 on ps with this team.

    I started to play with other players teams, which kind of worked out for me. Anyway, after playing for a month, I decided it was time to build my own team (this one is my second, I made it after the banning of tornadus-t).

    Without further ado, here's the team:

    [​IMG]

    Infernape @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
    Hasty Nature
    - Overheat
    - Close Combat
    - U-turn
    - Grass Knot

    Mixape is such an amazing pokemon. With it's dual stab it's really hard to switch into his attacks. I'm using expert belt over life orb so Infernape lasts longer. U-turn is there to dent pokemon that resist it's dual stab or to get out of tricky situations, namely dugtrio teams. Grass Knot is there for bulky waters and also ground types to a certain extent. I also use Infernape to create 'it's risky to switch your wall in' situations. Which works out pretty well, because Infernape is also there to get rid of these common walls. Even though this team doesn't need to get rid of walls to operate, it just makes it harder for the opponent to lay down there stealth rocks.

    [​IMG]

    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 72 Spd / 184 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Fang
    - Taunt

    The second hazards preventer, status absorber after toxic orb kicks in, and physcal wall. It also can check/setup on physical pokemon that lack ice type coverage. Not much to say about this guy, he's there to take physical hits and prevent hazards from happening. It also counters terrakion if it's scarfed or if I don't wan't to risk a speed-tie with Infernape.

    [​IMG]

    Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Softboiled
    - Toxic
    - Seismic Toss
    - Heal Bell

    The status absorber/healer and special wall. This pokemon heals status and spreads status around, on Volcorona for example. Pokemon that can otherwise pose a threat to this team. With Gliscor and Chansey backing it up as the defensive core, the opponent is forced to make double switches and guess more in general. Seismic Toss to damage anything and break the substitutes that matter.

    [​IMG]

    Scizor @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Superpower

    I have considered an choice set but it's to risky. If I revenge kill something, I don't wan't to be setup bait for things like thundurus-t that can 2hko chansey after an NP. Also this set gives me the potential to sweep after offensive heatran is removed/weakened. With this teams ability to avoid walls from getting in, it's really easy to weaken there offensive core and sweep right after.

    [​IMG]

    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Gyro Ball
    - Volt Switch

    Specially defensive Forretress is there to set Stealth Rocks mainly. And also to preserve Gliscor's health or if it's a situation I need to scout(hidden powers/or just to voltswitch out right after). At first I used sr on Chansey and spikes on Forre, without a spinblocker it just jsn't viable enough. Gyroball to kill Gengar.

    [​IMG]

    Dragonite (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk/ 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Outrage
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake

    I needed something to take care of sun teams, and profit from the absence of steel types right of the bat. Extremespeed revenge's everything that resists bulletpunch. Waterfall kills balloon Heatran and is my only watertype coverage move. I need EQ for teams with Jirachi in rain that use waterpulse or psychic. Even though its not a threat I needed to use something, lol.

  2. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,503
    Hi.

    Well, since it's your first RMT, it's a shame that nobody did help you to improve it. You should have bump it !
    Anyway, let's go with my rate.

    The weaknesses :

    - I see you being really weak to Terrakion. Especially the Substitute/SD version. Indeed, you'll be tempted to go to Gliscor/Forretress. And if he set-up, your two walls with have HUGE issues containing the beast.
    TO give you an idea, at +2 Terrakion kills Forretress in one hit after SR ! And Gliscor is easily 2HKO'd, even factoring Poison Heal.
    Since they're supposed to be your switch ins to Terrakion, he will probably take a kill each time he comes on the field. Moreover, you can get the revenge kill with Scizor, but if he did Substitute, you'll just end up losing another pokemon. That's why he's so threatening.

    - Keldeo is another big threat. His mixed power will help him to break through Chansey. And if he baits your Toxic and Substitute on this turn, it's almost GG because nobody can really damage him in your team. I was talking about Substitute, but well, even poisonned Keldeo will still deal huge damages. You can only go to Dragonite, which isn't a good answer given the threat of HP Ice, and the potential damages coming from SR.

    - Lati@s packing HP Fire. They will force you to switch to your Forretress/Scizor and then... get a clean kill on it. Moreover, they just outspeed everybody in your team, which is usually something that you don't want to happen. To sum up, with LO and HP Fire, they can probably kill all your team bar Chansey who does not fear much from them. However, Chansey is horribly prone to be a set-up fodder. So let's say they predict your switch and go to some physical hard hitter, you're in trouble ! And when Chansey is down, Lati@s will kill what's left in your team.

    - All in all, you're also weak to physical Dragons, packing a Fire move. And sadly, this is really common. Fire Punch DD Dragonite, Fire Blast Mence.. These things will rampage through your team with ease because your switch ins are either wrecked by Fire or strong physical hits.


    So, let's cut the weaknesses part, and focus on some changes. Basically, many weaknesses come from the Scizor/Forretress steel combo. And many others are coming from Chansey's ability to help the enemy to set-up. Sometimes it's not so big of a deal, I'm not saying that Chansey is a pokemon that nobody should play. But in a team supposed to be balanced, you can't afford usually and the set-up Chansey allows.
    One things that I also noticed, Heal Bell support with Toxic Gliscor is not the most practical thing.

    The big changes being :

    - Get rid of Chansey ! You need someone able to take special hits but also boost up the tempo of your team. Pretty simply, I won't take any risk and advice you Rotom-W. It just patches up your balance of types and your weaknesses so nicely that it would be a shame to be a hipster and provide you with another change. Basically, you have now a Water resistance (you only had Dragonite before !) and a Volt-Switch to keep up with the tempo. You wanted a status absorber, so let's stick to the Rest/ChestoBerry set.

    - Now I really want to change Forretress and Infernape.. but well, I'd be changing half your team. So I'll stick to one change. I can't let Forretress be such a liability for you :\
    So instead of Forretress, I'd advice you to try hm.. Deoxys-D. Once again I don't want to take any risk, I feel like Taunt support helps pretty badly Dragonite&cie if Forretress is now gone. Deoxys-D can also guarantee that there will be no hazards on your side in the early game, allowing you to pressure your enemy while he tries to set them up. And your pokemons don't like SR too too much.


    Now, some little changes :

    - In many teams like yours, EVs are pretty messed up. I mean, nothing awful here, but you should try to improve a little your EVs to fit better your team.
    For instance, I rarely see the use of all this speed on Scizor. Try instead a spread with more bulk and less speed (I'll give it later).

    - On Gliscor, this is the on site spread, but I don't think it's the best. You could try to get the best HP number for the Poison Heal. Those EVs that you will get seem to be pretty pointless.. however putting extra EVs in speed can give you the upper hand against another Gliscor for instance, which is worth considering.

    - Try Fire Punch over Waterfall on Dragonite, because Sun teams can be a little "tricky" now that Chansey is gone. Rotom-W is still a decent switch in but Venusaur will be a bigger threat. However you got everything a weatherless could need to deal with Venusaur in CB Dragonite. Fire Punch could still be a good asset against them, and against Scizor, Forretress..

    - About Infernape, Grass Knot is hardly useful. If you want to hit Bulky Waters, you better try ThunderPunch to be honest. You could also try Stone Edge to deal with Dragons. Moreover, you really lack a decent Scarf to revenge kill stuff. Dragons faster than Nape like Lati@s can be killed by CB Dragonite ESpeed and Scizor Bullet Punch, so let's Scarf Nape and kill the lower tiers. I'd go for OverHeat/CloseC/U-Turn and Stone Edge to revenge some Dragons and still have a decent coverage. You'll probably miss the ability to switch your moves, but without a Scarf you're open to so many threats that I won't even bother listing them.


    The Sets :

    Show Hide


    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Chesto Berry
    Levitate
    248 HP / 28 SpA / 232 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Volt-Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - ThunderWave
    - Rest

    You can absorb status like before now. You probably need more ThunderWave than Will O Wisp.

    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-D @ Red Card
    Pressure
    252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Taunt
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Magic Coat / Thunder Wave / Night Shade

    The last slot is free to what you prefer the most. Use it as lead most of the time, you usually have a decent match-up against anything bar specific anti-Deoxys-D leads.

    [​IMG]
    Infernape @ Expert Belt
    Blaze
    252 Spd / 180 Atk / 76 SAtk
    Hasty Nature
    - Overheat
    - Close Combat
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge

    The extra EVs in SpA are just here to guarantee a kill after SR on Skarmory and on Bulky Celebi, as well as improving your chances to catch a bulky Jirachi and kill it on the switch.
    Stone Edge should help you against Gyara or the Dragons.

    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 112 Spd / 252 Atk / 144 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Superpower

    You outspeed the classic defensive Heatran, which is already far enough.

    [​IMG]
    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 76 Spd / 188 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Fang
    - Taunt/Facade/Substitute/Baton Pass

    You could try Facade to hit harder. Over Taunt since you have Deoxys-D now. Or Substitute. Hell, even Baton Pass !


    I hope I helped.
    There are many changes, but many of them are just little nitpick on the EVs and the sets. Give them a try !


    TL;DR

    Show Hide

    Rotom-W on Chansey
    Deoxys-D on Forretress
    Infernape => Scarf
    Change Taunt on Gliscor
    Fire Punch over Waterfall on Dragonite
  3. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I'll be your light, your match, your burning sun
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
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    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,968
    Hey, nice team

    I think you might have a weakness to some pretty common Rain sweepers such as Choice Specs Keldeo-R, whose Rain boosted Hydro Pumps can OHKO more than half your team, and when coupled with Secret Sword and Hidden Power Ice, can beat your team with little outside support. Your team is in general weak to Water / Ice coverage, making it risky as well as tough to take on Bulky water types, mainly Vaporeon, Jellicent, and Rotom-W. Pokemon faster than Nape can also do a lot of damage to your team. Gengar with HP Fire (though rare) flat out destroys you, as your wall Chansey can't touch it and Dnite's ESpeed can't be used to revenge kill. Your team is a bit weak on the special side; your only offensive special move is Nape's one-time use Overheat, making you weak as well to physical walls like Gliscor, Landorus-T, Donphan, and Skarmory. I do think Chansey is what's holding you back; it's not helping you manage anything except Sun, which Nape and Dnite do acceptably anyway. I think a good replacement to Chansey is Specially Defensive Rotom-W.

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Calm / 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hydro Pump / Volt Switch / Thunder Wave / Pain Split


    Rotom can solve a lot of the current problems you have- as well as manage most of the pokemon you used Chansey for. It can wall Keldeo and Rain quite easily, and with Thunder Wave, mostly eliminate speedy sweepers as threats. Rotom's Volt Switch is great because it gives you a way to not only pivot but also to hit bulky water types that the rest of your team can't do reliably. Hydro Pump is also a great STAB special move to use; it hits very hard and defeats most Physical walls, including Forretress / Gliscor / Skarmory, clearing the way for a Dnite sweep. Pain Split is used to heal yourself up. There is no need to use Rest on Rotom-W because you have a status sponge in Gliscor.

    Now for some smaller adjustments.

    To start off, I think your Gliscor set can be optimized. I don't think using Swords Dance is a good idea because your team needs a way to sponge Sand onslaught. Also, giving Gliscor a set up move instead of letting it beat walls one on one sacrifices much of your momentum in exchange for a minisweep that would be tough to pull off. So, I would advise you to use Toxic over Swords Dance. Toxic lets you stall walls to death, as poison heal prevents you from recieving status and heals up any minor damage you get. Even adter a swords dance, Gliscor is pretty weak, so I suggest you run Toxic instead.

    I also think it would be beneficial if you tried Stone Edge over Grass Knot. It lets you defeat Ninetales and over Fire types much easier, and lets you hit Thundurus / Salamence / Dnite hard if they try to set up on you. Grass knot has relatively low use on Nape as CC hits most things harder.

    Next, I think it's a good idea to make Dragonite a Dragon Dancer. This is because you really need a setup sweeper that can outspeed certain scarfed revenge killers, and not always rely on priority. This means using Dragon Dance over Waterfall, and Lun Berry over Choice Band, which isn't that great of a move on Dnite anyway as EQ hits Steels and Fire types so much harder. Lum Berry lets you seize your opportunity to set up against Sun sweepers who will try unsuccessfully to put you to sleep. After 2 DDances, you can pretty much say GG, as not much is faster and can take a +2 ESpeed. Only Skarmory, Forretress and Ferrothorn will be able to take more than 2 hits, but they are all demolished by Nape.

    Cool team, good luck!

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