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X5Dragon Dances all D-Nite (PS: #1; PO: Smogon #1, Beta #27)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by X5Dragon, Sep 8, 2011.

  1. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,040
    [​IMG]



    The Team:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]





    Related Teams and Projects:


    Ancient form of this team:
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3678950

    Further proof that my insanity is genuine:
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3453724

    Links explaining the coverage of dual type move combos:
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3454216

    Side project emphasizing the importance of Priorities:
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4364692





    The Motto:


    "No walls, no screens & no weather because frak that I'm a Dragon do I need anything else?"

    [​IMG]
    (Copyright of Foxiz)





    The Rank:


    Smogon PO Server BW OU Rank (open)
    [​IMG]
    *Number 1 caught alt cheating, ranking starts from me afterwards



    Smogon PO Server DW OU Rank (open)
    [​IMG]



    PO Beta Server WiFi Ranking (open)
    [​IMG]



    Pokemon Showdown OU Ranking:

    [​IMG]


    Accolades:

    Pokemon Showdown:

    #1 OU Ladder (Peak pts. 2900+, passively laddering atm)
    #10 OU Suspect Ladder (Chomp Test)

    Currently Competing in the Clear Skies, Clear Entry R2
    Smogon PO Server:

    #1 BW OU (Peak pts. 1591)
    #1 CS OU
    #9 DW OU

    15 OU Tournaments


    PO Beta Server:

    #27 Wifi OU (Laddering in progress)


    E-go:

    Longest running team viable top 10 team (Confirmed by me, cause I'm the X5Dragon (tm))
    ==========================



    Introduction:


    I am a pokemon dinosaur, with my first pokemon game being Blue. Yes, the time where a lvl 200 snorlax was the sign of coolness and Articuno learned surf. I never changed from my heavy offensive strategy, particularly because I skipped gens 3 to 4 and started playing again at gen 5.

    I have no tolerance for pokemon that can't kill anything or having weather limiting my type choices and worrying the entire match about keeping my weather inducer alive. Heck I even have a FGW core.

    But whatever ideas that help sustain my offense I have fully embraced, specifically rapid spin for those pesky hazards, weather changing moves for exposing weather teams and spore/MS/steel bulk for free set-ups, and priorities to overcome speedy pokemon/status effects.

    I am not going to lie, this team because it relies on a heavily offensive strategy needs a lot of experience (does loom's Mach Punch kill a 30% HP Heatran when roared out?), prediction (He brought a natural cure user to remove my spore, I'm gonna press spore again when he switches) and good choice of leads (He has Deo-S in the preview, I think I'm gonna pull a multi-attack user for the lead, screw his sash!)




    The Mission:

    Um, that you don't need stall or weather to succeed? Dunno really...</world's best motivational speaker>




    The Plan:

    1) Read the preview and figure out the type of the team

    2) Plant my own SR if possible or bluff and attack

    3) Disarm them of their priorities, hazards, weathers if possible

    4) Find an opportunity to set up by punching holes all around

    5) Clean up with designated sweepers

    =========================



    The Movesets:



    Dragonite (aka Nobolite) @ Lum Berry
    Adamant (-SpA, +Atk)
    Multiscale (If at full health, damaging moves are reduced by 50%)
    252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP


    [​IMG]




    [​IMG] Dragon Dance (Set-Up, raises Atk +1, Speed +1)
    [​IMG] Extreme Speed (+2 Priority)
    [​IMG] Fire Punch
    [​IMG] Outrage


    This adorable monster ranks up more kills than his entire team mates put together x2, and it's not hard to see why. His MS makes him take all but 3 attacks in the game and survive to dance about it (Boosted Ice Attacks, Outrage and Dracometeor), then proceed to knock you dead with his dragon/fire moveset than only Heatran resists in the entire metagame. Also, if he wasn't put up to take status effects, he is free to Outrage again to OHKO most of your team. Extreme Speed is to make suckers out of sucker punchers :)

    SR is a problem since it deactivates MS, so Starmie is there to spin away all his problems.


    Former Members:

    Are you kidding me?

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    =================



    Breloom (aka Wall-E) @ Lum Berry
    Adamant (-SpA, +Atk)
    Technician (Powers up low base moves by 50%)

    252 Atk, 124 Speed, 132 HP



    [​IMG]





    [​IMG] Spore (100% Accuracy Sleep Inducer)
    [​IMG] Bullet Seed (Multi-Hit Move)
    [​IMG] Sword Dance (Set-Up, +2 Attack)
    [​IMG] Mach Punch (+1 Priority)



    Breloom has 2 of the most needed offensive types needed in the game, grass for those ever annoying ground/water types, Fighting for destroying stuff and the bonus of spore to put a lot of entry hazard users to sleep as well as to set-up as you please.

    I have opted to use the SD Mach Punch set instead of the Sub Punch because I need my priorities (Looking at you X number of fast sweepers) and because +2 attack is way better than a sub that Breloom, which has no bulk, can't reliably keep. EV spread is to outspeed the basic walls of OU and even some more, while investing the rest in HP to tank hits and set up spore and max attack. I used a lum to facilitate easy setting up and compensated for the lack of a boosting item such as Life Orb by using Adamant nature.




    Former Members:

    None, Loomy was a founding member of this team and was never replaced.



    Suggested Alternatives:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]

    Until techniloom is released, Lucario is a good alternative with Close Combat that no one will enjoy eating, Ice Punch for those Dragons and Crunch/Extreme Speed/Bullet Punch depending on who you want to hurt the most.


    [​IMG]
    Celebi is also a great Sand lead and by the time your opponent figures on what to do with you have either crippled them or taken a good chunk of their health off. Tanks Terrakion and makes a joke out of the Scizor/Rotom-W core.


    [​IMG]

    Scarf terrakion as a replacement with CC, Stone Edge, Quick Attack, Xscissor with great results as its able to basically outpower and outspeed most things.




    ===============



    Volcarona (aka Infernug) @ Focus Sash
    Modest (-Atk, +SpA)
    Flame Body (Chance of burning the opponent on contact)
    252 SpA, 252 Speed, 4 HP


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG] Quiver Dance (Set-Up, +1 SpA, +1 SpD, +1 Speed)
    [​IMG] Bug Buzz
    [​IMG] Fiery Dance
    [​IMG] Hidden Power



    Volcarona is costly to keep, but he is worth every rapid spin. Best set-up move in the game, best dual stabs in OU, the sash giving you a free set-up/trolling outragers with flamebody, immense hitting power right off the bat (ohko reni with bug buzz). And the best part? Fiery dance hax, with 50% to get an +1 SpA increase, and it has a base power of 80!

    What more could you ask for in a pokemon?

    HP ground or Ice? For one Ice makes it a very good Sand Lead as anything they throw at me is promptly schooled, on the other hand Heatran walls me to no end, I have no other Ground moves on the team and Terrakion is something I want to hurt, like really bad.




    Former Members:

    None, Fiery was a founding member of this team and was never replaced.



    ==============


    Mamoswine (aka Bluenose) @ Focus Sash
    Adamant (-SpA, +Atk)
    Thick Fat (Fire and Ice attacks are less damaging)
    252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG] Earthquake
    [​IMG] Stealth Rock (Hazard)
    [​IMG] Ice Shard (+1 Priority)
    [​IMG] Stone Edge



    Mamoswine was brought in for a lot of reasons. First of all, I needed ground stabs badly. The onslaught of rain genies and scarfers in general necessitated another priority. Third and most importantly, rocks and ice, can't beat that. SR allows my sweepers to go on their way unopposed by shenanigans such as %1 RNG luck or focus sashes. Also it helps to put down Sun teams and limit the number of times my opponent switches in. I chose power over speed, and Stone Edge can very much be replaced by Superpower if you don't fear Gyradous and the like.


    Former Members:


    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    I miss this dude so much, I am gonna find a way to bring him back into the team soon. He carried me for so long, and he is the definition of set up sweeper alongside Volca and D-Nite. Shell Smash and a mixed set provide near perfection, however speed has crept into OU and with me badly needing SR, Cloyster was asked to rest for a while.



    ===============



    Starmie (aka Starflex) @ Life Orb

    Timid (-Atk, +Speed)
    Natural Cure (Removes status effect after switching out)
    252 SpA, 252 Speed, 4 HP



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG] Hail (Weather changing move)
    [​IMG] Rapid Spin
    [​IMG] Psychic
    [​IMG] Thunderbolt


    I can't recall the many times that Hail (formerly Rain Dance) has saved me, especially since weather teams usually just throw their weather inducers away thinking that since I'm weatherless then they have no fears. Ehh, wrong. Also, I have 2 SR weak pokemon, and Starmie is the best practical rapid spinner in the entire metagame. Timid is because Spinning rocks > killing stuff. Attacking moveset is solely for the purpose of removing the two most popular spinblockers in the Meta fast and clean: Gengar and Jellicent. Killing is a hobby for Starmie, but he is welcome to exercise that option when ever he is done with his chores ;)




    Former Members:
    Show Hide


    [​IMG]
    Best spinner in OU before he was banned. Also he was an excellent Sand thief and allowed me to stand against sand based teams for a while.

    Drillz@Air Balloon
    Adamant
    Sand Rush
    252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP

    Rapid Spin
    X-Scizzor
    Earth Quake
    Rock Slide




    Suggested Alternatives:

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    SpDefensive Foretress w/Rocks,Tspikes,Rapid Spin, Volt Switch. Volt switch could help with your momentum of the team after you lay hazards/spin.


    [​IMG]
    Priority Aqua Jet is really useful IMO against Terrakion and most sand in general. While Kabutops is only a mediocre base 80 speed, you will be mindfucking rain stall by outspeeding their entire team with ease and smashing their faces in w/STAB stone edge/aqua jet. Kabutops also benefits in Sandstorm with the SpD boost which is always welcomed as his regular defense stat is not too bad at base 105. Again, this is kind of a random suggestion and I don't expect you to take it seriously lol.


    [​IMG]
    Defensive donphan. Rocks, Spin, Priority Ice shard to kill weakened dnite/other dragons, + EQ. Another good bulky spinner immune to sandstorm as well and not pursuit weak like starmie as well.


    [​IMG]
    Armaldo is pretty damn strong with base 125 attack and has a great defence of base 100. He shouldn't have any problems in sandstorm either where hes already base 80 SpD and gets the nice boost as well.


    [​IMG]

    Xatu can provide Thunder Wave support, or even screen support if you desire. It can reflect all hazards for you, and its flying/psychic type can help you against Terrakion.



    =======================



    Scizor (aka Ceasar) @ Life Orb
    Jolly (-SpA, +Speed)
    Technician (Powers up low base moves by 50%)
    252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG] Sword Dance
    [​IMG] Bug Bite
    [​IMG] Super Power
    [​IMG] Bullet Punch


    Scizor is the king of OU, and most importantly, Sand team's big daddy. As you can see I was having some problems with Sand for a couple of reasons and pokemon after pokemon were failing to do what they're supposed to. In this slot there were a lot of SpA attackers keeping in mind my philosophy of having the same number of physical to special attackers, but that soon changed with the changing metagame. Alright BP is elementary, Super Power is for powering against Steel and Dark types and Bug Bite for hitting hard against those pesky Celebis and even hitting Tentacruel, Rotom, Politoad and the like for some very heavy damage.


    OK, bragging time! Examples and Calculations (with LO in mind):
    Show Hide


    LO Superpower against full health TTar = OHKO
    +1 Superpower against full health Scizor = OHKO
    +2 Bullet Punch against full health Haxorus = OHKO
    +2 Superpower against full health Ferrothorn = OHKO
    +2 Bullet Punch against full health Terrakion = OHKO
    +2 Bullet Punch against full health Tyranitar = OHKO
    +2 Bullet Punch against full health Latios = OHKO
    +2 Bullet Punch against full health Latias = OHKO
    +2 Bullet Punch against full health Landrous = OHKO
    +2 Bullet Punch against full health Tornadus = OHKO
    +2 Superpower against full health Bronzong = OHKO
    +2 Bug Bite against full health Rotom-W = OHKO
    +2 Bug Bite against full health Politoad = OHKO
    +2 Quick Attack against full health Darmantian = 96%, 2OHKO
    +2 Superpower against full health Metagross = 91%, 2HKO
    +2 Bullet Punch against full health Gliscor = 73%, 2HKO
    +2 Bullet Punch against full health Chandalure = 71%, 2HKO
    +2 Super Power against full health Skarmory = 70%, 2HKO
    +2 Quick Attack against full health Tentacruel = 54%, 2HKO
    +2 Quick Attack against full health Victni = 51%, 2HKO
    +1 Bullet Punch against full health Lucario = 51%, 2HKO



    More impressive stats as I continue battling.



    Former Members:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]

    Monster of a Dragon, no x4 weakness to Ice BS. Unfortunately Skarmory trolled me to Earth's end, so that's when I began to pack SpA in this slot.

    Hax@Lum Berry
    Adamant
    Rivalry
    252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP

    Dragon Dance
    Outrage
    Dual Chop
    Earth Quake



    [​IMG]

    Long stay of my team and first broke into high peaks with him around. Prankster T-wave put an end to my scarfer misery, and his stabs and resist along with fantastic speed and SPA was well appreciated. Unfortunately he was used to depletion under the rain and banned so...


    [​IMG]


    After Thundrus was banned I was hard pressed to find a replacement. Since Zappy had the same typing and good tutor moves (Heat Wave), I tried the AgilityDos set and it was good while it lasted. Problem was he wasn't packing much punch to begin with, and setting up was hard as well.


    Zados@Expert Belt
    Modest
    Pressure
    252 Speed, 252 SpA, 4 HP

    Agility
    Heatwave
    Thunderbolt
    Hidden Power Ice



    [​IMG]

    Was a versatile pokemon that did well with STAB Draco, unfortunately he did nothing to solve my Sand problems. I put Surf in an effort to at least dent TTars and Heatrans but the basic problem remained, that bloody sand!


    Latte@LO
    Timid
    Levitate
    252 Speed, 252 SpA, 4 HP

    Surf
    Psyshock
    Hidden Power Fire
    Draco Meteor


    [​IMG]

    Sand, sealed and delivered, this dude is awesome. Sandstream does nadda against it, it sets up beautifully, and with Expert belt and +2 it kills even Rotom-W with HP Grass at full health! Awesome, I solved my problem right? Unfortunately there are other team types, and I often have to play like I have 5 mons instead of six because of the hard time he has against other teams. Oh baloney ;_;


    Bluey@Expert Belt
    Timid
    Swift Swim
    252 SpA, 252 Speed, 4 HP

    Hidden Power Grass
    Shell Smash
    Surf
    Ice Beam



    [​IMG]
    WTH? Sand teams are dropping in useage! YES, fina...

    *Deo-S + 5 Sweepers*

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

    Jirachi made me live through that nightmare. His SR, Body Slam U-Turn and Wish support made spinning things and crippling others possible but as soon as Sand was kool again I had to retire this lil fellow, thanks Maestro for the suggestion!


    Magic@Leftovers
    Bold
    Serene Grace
    ??????????

    U-Turn
    Wish
    Stealth Rock
    Body Slam



    ==========================



    The Tactics:


    I am gonna try something different here, instead of writing a threat list I am gonna list threat teams because no one pokemon is truly frightening to me:


    1. Sun Teams: Dragonite as a lead, absorbs WoW or Hypnosis with lum berry, very much enjoys these moves missing, and then proceeding to ohko Ninetals after DD. Starmie is pulled out to either remove SR or change the weather after Ninetales is gone.


    2. Sand Teams: It depends on who I see in the preview. If I think Rotom-W or TTar will lead, I pull a Breloom and proceed to Spore or Seed Bomb depending on my mood. If scarf Landorus is more likely to lead, I pull a Mamo and use a free turn to set up SR or go for a damaging attack. Starmie later makes an appearance to remove SR/Spikes and I think it's more necessary Rain Dance as well. Scizor cleans up the rest nicely.


    3. Rain Teams: Breloom or Mamo in the lead. Rain teams love to switch alot so SR is a good way to start.


    4. Hail Teams: Volcarona loves to set-up at the beginning of the match.


    5. Baton Pass Teams: Since most of them have evolved to use double sleep inducers, I pull Nite in the lead to fire punch the venomoth/ES the Smeargle. These teams are tricky and may need some luck to handle, the key thing is to keep them on the run and kill their pokemon asap, especially the ones carrying defensive boosting moves. The sashes are there in case you need to use a set-move to gain needed speed/attack power to kill them.


    6. Trick Room Teams: Even less common, these teams usually start out with a Bronzong to start the mayhem, which is why Breloom with Spore is immensely helpful to allow other pokemon sweep before they can set-up TR. I also have priorities and good counting technique to use my sashes/MS to set-up and then strike for OHKO's the moment the effect is gone.
    7. Stall Teams: Oh boy, do I hate them...well, this requires a lot of switchin and dancing around. I have lot of statuses of my own to effect them, Dragonite to handle skarmpiss, Breloom for Quagsire/Gastrodon, and Scizor/Volcarona in case I need brute power.
    ===================
    Shoutout!

    Thanks first of all to all those kind users who stop by from time to time and tell me about their experiences with this team, their different versions and how much they enjoyed playing/laddering/competing with it, it's an honor to be recognized by one's peers, from national team leaders to well known names and people who are rediscovering their love of pokemon and needed something solid to start their new journey with. I would name them one by one out of memory but I always prefer people to talk about themselves.


    Thank you for viewing this RMT, I'm hoping this is my best yet and I appreciate any advice you have for me ^_^
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2013
  2. Box

    Box

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,121
    Maybe you should slap Taunt onto Thundurus to break stall and ease up Starmie's role as a spinner. Pretty much your entire team is weak to Stealth Rocks.

    Cool team otherwise.
  3. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,040
    I'm liking the idea Box, especially with BP teams since I can just Taunt and get a free hit, rinse and repeat. Will work wonders with Stall Teams as well, especially rain based ones.

    Thanks. I'll be toying around with it :)
  4. Blue_Star

    Blue_Star
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    763
    Pretty good team, I just don't see the point of using Focus Sash. Life Orb would be, imo, a better item on Volcarona and Cloyster, since they get important KOs when using it.
  5. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,040
    Thanks Blue Star!

    Well the general idea is that Cloyster and Volcarona have no SpD, Bulk respectively and I need guarantees that they can set-up reliably.

    The Sash also helps in dealing with scarf pokemon. Besides, Volcrona has an awesome SpA base attack and SS gives me +2 speed and +2 atk so I don't need LO to handle my opponents.
  6. xxmoosexx

    xxmoosexx

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2010
    Messages:
    34
    I would definitely opt for Taunt over Focus Blast or HP Ice(whichever you find least important). Since Thundurus is meant for a glue....I'd honestly consider a substitute. Garunteed thunder waves on annoying pokemon. But that is stretching it a bit.

    I really like the Lum Berry Dragonite. You have that mach punch on breloom which is great. When dat Technician comes out for him im totally rockin the SD Set.

    I have seen sooo many people run an offensive spinner set. There aren't many relevant ghosts that can handle Starmie. Only ones that can are Dusclops. It's kind of intriguing to know that 252SpA is now preferred over 252HP. If you ever decide to drop the Rain Dance I'd definitely use Recover.
    ....Now that I think about it Starmie actually forces a good amount of switches to abuse in this Meta.

    Volcarona is going to be walled by Gyarados(there aren't that many left) but Heatran is definitely the larger threat. Starmie/Breloom can handle Gyarados is some specific situations but Starmie takes hits like a girl. So "smart play" can get you that KO.

    What I don't like is that your team has a couple quad weaknesses from common attacking types.

    Honestly...each time the opponent switches in something like a dragon something is going to die. So the key is to keep momentum. If you like that kind of play then thats fine.

    I'd probably opt for a steel in one of those spots.(Maybe Choice Scarf Jirachi?)
  7. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,040
    I enjoyed reading your analysis xxmoosexx, thanks.

    Yes I think the argument revolves on giving taunt to Thundrus, and since I already have 2 pokemon that use ice moves I should think about removing HP ice and keeping T-Wave and Taunt to troll at my leisure.

    Totally digging the prospect of techniloom, even though losing poison heal and thus the ability to bloke status effects is worrisome. I'll have to try it once it's released and balance the whole thing.

    Volca is actually walled by Gyra and D-Nite, which is why sash cloyster is ever important. Flame Body however makes ppl very afraid of attacking my bug, since either one being burnt means they are dead meat. Leaving my Volca facing these two is not something I do by choice, but I like to eat Heatrans with HP ground and sweeping Toxicroak right off it's feet under the rain. Speaking of Rain, HP ground lets me attack Jirachi as well.

    Quad Weakness is something that cannot be avoided, however MS and a sash on Volca has allowed me to tolerate them, and since they are sweepers and not walls, I'm OK with it.

    Dragon duels are fun, especially Nite vs Nite. If I see a lead Hax I pull my Volca, watch it outrage uselessly while I QD and then take it out with bug buzz. Also Latios dies from it as well, as does Hydregion. Cloyster is the second sasher in case something goes wrong...
  8. Box

    Box

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,121
    Hey, why don't you try a bulky Dragonite? From my experience Bulky DDnite is a complete beast, managing sweeps with just two moves (Dragon Claw/Brick Break, perhaps), while maintaining health with Roost. Multiscale just makes the set better as of Gen 5, as it makes it very difficult to take down Dragonite even with priority Ice Shards because you're just spamming Roosts to keep yourself at full health.

    I'm not sure of the viability of Substitute, but since nothing resists Dragon 4x, you could swap your coverage move for Substitute instead.
  9. ike2

    ike2

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    8
    This is like... wonderful!

    In my first team I tried to use Dnite, volcarona, cloyster and thundurus, but i was WAAAY unsuccessful! you managed to make a REALLY strong team. I'm actually proud of you! LOL

    When I get home Imma try this FOR SURE!
  10. xxmoosexx

    xxmoosexx

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2010
    Messages:
    34
    Lol. Focus sash to deal with dragons. Basically you sacrifice a sasher for every dragon though. What happens when you run into multi-dragon teams that have priority?

    If you lead with that volcarona to fend off Hax you are probably left with 1 HP amirite?
    Then anything with priority or weather cleans up volcarona. Essentially sacrificing a dragon(that isn't DNITE) for Volcarona and DNITE for Cloyster. Its kind of funny tbh. So many people run a water/steel core to deal with these dragons...you basically said fuck that and slapped on sashes on 2 pokemon.

    Could you go into depth about how you deal with each dragon when they don't lead with them?
  11. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
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    2,040
    Well while nothing resists Dragon/Fight other than Shednja, I kind of need Fire Punch to deal with Skarmory more effectively, especially when I'm facing a Skarmpiss wall combo.

    While very tempting, very few people will allow you to roost and stay at full health, I sure as hell don't let anyone do it infront of me even If I have to spam attack after attack, and with Sand being popular I doubt you will find much use for it.

    MS for me is just a turbo button I use to gain +1 Atk and +1 Speed. Also, Mamoswine is the most common user of Ice Shard, it usually OHKO my D-Nite at full health so I doubt a Bulky Nite would manage to save more than 50% of it's health, and Ice Shard has more PP than Roost.



    Glad you liked it, tell me how it works out for you :)


    It's complicated, I make my moves depending on where the game's at. The important thing to notice is that I have tools to handle any situation that arises, and my strategy is definitely not based on tit-for-tat kind of play, 1 poke for each poke with me dealing the first kills.

    It's more of disarming my opponent and opening my way for any of the sweepers to set-up and rampage kind of approach. I'd also like to note that I have a Prankster and a Starmie at hand to deal with multiple Dragons.

    See my reply to Blue Star and The Threats list on the logic and uses I have for the sashes.
  12. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    8,564
    Very cool team, man, and congrats to your success! I can see this team ripping through mine (Cloyster x_x).

    The unique use of Focus Sash users to revenge kill and then sweep dangerous threats is a novel idea - I dig it.

    Don't have much time to analyze your team, but I would seriously suggest going Timid on Thundurus, since you're missing out on revenge killing so many things. With +Spe, it can revenge Latios, Terrakion, Gengar, Infernape, Landorus, Espeon... I mean the list goes on.
  13. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,040

    Thanks man, I appreciate the support! Love Cloyster, his shell smash is so broken lol.

    I am also glad that you are seeing the advantages of having sashes on these two pokemon, some people are having a hard time accepting this item and not realizing the many benefits this sash is bestowing on me. Or maybe I like to battle with 1 HP pokemon, dunno >.<

    So many Thundrus suggestions, all very tempting and sound. So I'm gonna go ahead and pull one of my test accounts and use this team again, and I will update the Thundrus moveset after I try them all out.
  14. Thatsjustpeachy

    Thatsjustpeachy 暗无天日的冰之救星!
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    This team is pretty good offensive team but faster pokes like Latios have an easy time killing stuff on this team, I think i remember beating this team with a combination of Latios and Priority users but its very hard with the 2 sashes if your able to keep off rocks. I like this team though, not enough offensensive teams nowadays, but the dual sashes are very situational but it seems to be working for you so dont change it. Good job on your success.
  15. GtM

    GtM

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    717
    If you're using Rain Dance on Starmie solely to block weather (and since Starmie doesn't have a Water attacking move), wouldn't Hail be a better option? Not only does it help you out against Drizzle teams as well as Sandstorm and Drought, it also stacks up some extra residual damage on opponents that could possibly make a difference. It doesn't break Cloyster's Focus Sash either, so that's not an issue. Might not be worth the residual damage on your own pokes, but it's your call.
  16. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,564
    Having multi-scale and Volcarona's Sash broken is probably not good. Rain Dance is probably the least negative weather to use here.

    I don't know if I like Taunt on Thundurus over one of its coverage moves.... both of them are pretty necessary to give Thundurus the colossal offensive presence that it is known for. But wouldn't hurt to try it out I guess :x
  17. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,427
    Hey, obviously this is a solid team and congrats on getting so high on the ladder with a (almost) weatherless team! Of course there don't seem to be many weaknesses, though you do seem to have a bit of a problem with Starmie, moreso if hazards are down. You can't stop any Starmie running Timid because your own Starmie runs a Modest nature, meaning you lose that all-important speed tie and leaving the rest of your team forsaken. Sand also in theory can make short work of your team, considering that if Tyranitar catches Starmie it can Pursuit you, putting you in a checkmate position (this isn't helped by the fact that you lack Hydro Pump). After that Swords Dance Excadrill just rips your team to pieces, especially if Tyranitar is able to get Stealth Rock up. Swords Dance Excadrill with X-Scissor hits everything on your team at least neutrally and your closest thing to a check in Breloom takes 82.44% - 97.33% from +2 X-Scissor, so if Starmie goes down and hazards go up you're done for.

    I think there can be some simple fixes for this. To take care of your weakness to Excadrill I reallly think you should try SubSeed Breloom. You take a lot less from X-Scissor, meaning you can come in on either a resisted attack right off the bat or a Swords Dance, then Spore it when it decides to attack. In a pinch you can also pass whatever Leech Seed you've gotten off to one of your teammates. As a final note it also can do a number to stall thanks to sleep and Leech Seed. This leaves you a little open to Reuniclus, specifically CM, but I think if you're conservative enough with Spore and setting up Subsitute quickly, you should be able to play around it.

    To fix your Starmie weakness I think you might want to try Scarf Rotom-W over Volcorona, seeing as its not only the only Pokemon on your team that doesn't like Rain Dance from Starmie but it also is reliant on Starmie for Rapid Spin. Rotom-W always lives a Hydro Pump or Thunderbolt from Starmie (even in the rain and a Thunder too!) and can hit it hard with Thunderbolt. You can always just Volt Switch on it too seeing as that does great damage to it and also has momentum. It also just makes a nice revenge killer in general, which can really help in certain situations. This also allows you to free up some moveslots on Starmie, giving it Hydro Pump over possibly Rapid Spin - now you can reliably hit Tyranitar. Timid is better than Modest on Starmie, same with Thundurus.


    Spreads:

    Show Hide




    Hope this rate helped, and good luck!

    EDIT: Technician's not released....
  18. Katz

    Katz

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    49
    I'd run Technician instead of toxic heal and switch to life orb, Mach Punch gets the Technician boost which is pretty neat, just a suggestion
  19. Valentine

    Valentine ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
    is a Tutor

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2008
    Messages:
    624
    First and foremost, run Timid Nature on Starmie. This allows you to outspeed the Genies (most notably SubPlot or Lum Berry Thundurus) who resist Brelooms Mach Punch, and can survive Dragonite's unboosted ES. Timid Nature also allows you to force a speed tie with opposing Starmie, which can be a saving grace should you find yourself being swept by one. There's so much pressure on Starmie's spin it's ridiculous. This is probably an exaggeration, but i've never seen such an entry hazard weak team ranked so high. Not only are 4 of the pokemon weak to SR, but 3 of those 4 are relying on keeping full health to set up (Multiscale, Focus Sashes). If I were playing the team, I would run a Heatran over Volcorona, to take pressure off Starmie, not be x4 weak to SR, have a dragon resist, and to lay entries of my own to help a sweep. Heatran is also the only steel that trappers can't abuse, which makes Magnezone dead weight for your opponent. Keep Volcorona if it works for you, by all means. Heatran just seems better imo.

    Next, I would put in Scarf Rotom-W in place of Thundurus. Hidden Power Fire becomes a much more reliable answer to Ferrothorn, STAB Hydro Pump becomes a much more reliable answer to Tyranitar and Heatran. Rotom-W eliminates a SR weakness but still keeps Ground immunity, can hit all the same threats and more (like that Starmie that was giving you problems), adds much needed speed, and adds momentum with Volt Switch, which you can also abuse the whole match to scout switches.

    Show Hide
    Offensive or SpDef Heatran would both work.

    Rotom-W @Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    -Volt Switch
    -Hydro Pump
    -Hidden Power Fire
    -Trick / ThunderBolt


    Good luck on creating more successful teams!
  20. Box

    Box

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,121
    What the hell is SkarmPiss?

    I'm pretty sure with a little investment in Defensive EVs, Dragonite can survive an Ice Shard at full health easily, and promptly KO Mamoswine with boosted Dragon Claw.

    Again, entry hazards take care of Focus Sash.
  21. yee

    yee
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,110
    Hey X5Dragon, this is a very strong team you have. I rarely use offensive teams but I think a couple of nitpicks would help you out.

    A lot of users run Timid on Starmie and Thundurus without any hesitation. Seeing that you skipped gen 4 you must not have that natural instinct of needing to revenge kill Infernape/Gengar. In gen 5, there are a lot more pokes to worry about in the Modest-Timid gap, including more base 108s in Terrakion, Virizion etc., the Lati twins, and Landorus who just nudges past you, this one can't be Thunder Waved either. I would suggest running Timid on both for the extra revenge killing utility because it seems like once you lose your sash on Cloyster it would be very hard to keep all of them in check, especially if they found time to set up SR.

    I would consider changing Starmie's set more to a utility set without LO, because its goal seems to be spinning and removing weather rather than attacking.

    Good luck!
  22. -RatCheesy

    -RatCheesy

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    300
    I think its a new soda drink that Coca Cola came out with.
    I heard its delicious. [/Sarcasm]

    Starmie needs Timid Nature, Modest is no good.
    I like the fact that your team doesn't have a steel type but I feel like Specs Latios causes you slight trouble spamming Draco Meteor and OHKO'ing one member of your team.
  23. Kanto1337

    Kanto1337

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    18
    Hey, nice powah team, you have here^^Only thing I have to say is: Seed Bomb>Bullet Seed, because Bullet Seeds power is in BW 25+Technician is it 45 and it hits min. 2 times, so its 90-225 (and a higher haxcritchance with more attacks in a round ;D)

    So, yeah. Have fun with the loom and your team^^
  24. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,040
    Hey guys, sorry it took so long. I am beginning to think of this team as a community effort, hopefully more insights will be provided.

    I made another alt for this team to continue where I stopped, and so far I'm 1259 with 10 wins and no losses, which is always a good sign. A lot of ratings have been given, so I'll address the common points:

    ------------------------------



    1) Lot's of techniloom suggestions, which is why I should add a "If gen 6 were here and all my dreams come true section" for what would happen to the team if unreleased things and possible move additions were to happen. Would also give DW OU teams a bit of hints as well.


    -------------



    2) I have no need currently to try subseed Breloom because of one thing, Exadrill has no pokemon to set up upon with SD, since 5 of them kill if he even tries to do so, and believe me ppl have tried predicting a switch. Volca usually has killed a pokemon before drill appears, so I never switch him out because his sash cannot be used due to the weather and I don't like to run a team with half hp pokemon given the nature of it. So either he misses his rock slide or I poach on the rare users who SD infront of him. Otherwise, he already has done his job before hand.


    -----------


    3) Yup, never paid much attn to the Timid/Modest Boundary, and also me skipping Gen 3/4 hasn't given me much experience in EV spreads, so if anyone has optimal spreads let me know :)

    Thundrus and Starmie are now Timid.



    -----------------


    4) Rain dance is chosen is because as others have said, it's the least offending weather to my team, and I actually like Rain. Problems arise and that is why Hail was suggested here when Skarmory makes an appearance or when something I can only use fire against shows up against Volca. I can only play around or set up until it stops, but usually setting up rain dance, especially when ttar and ninetales are gone, means you have won the match.

    An interesting evolution of sun teams these days has seen Venasaur learning sunny day, and I'd like to think that I was one of the reasons why he dropped one his more standard moves for it :P


    --------------



    5) I dropped HP ice in favor of Taunt and kept T-wave. It was initially a hard decision seeing how I loved to slaughter dragons with it, but I already had 2 ice moves and Taunt was just beastly. SR set ups and DDs by the foe dropped dramatically and it also helped land free T-Bolts and T-waves.

    I'm lovin it! (Copyright of McDonalds <_<)



    ---------------


    6) Heatran is nice, but if you see the theme of this team, its about either priorities, epic speed base stats or set ups which involve increasing speed and another stat, Volca has none of the above. Add to that he only has one stab, and while setting SR would be nice, I have a momentum to keep.

    Rotom-W is beastly in Sand, but it lacks Focus Blast which Thundrus has, which OHKO ttar most of the time, it lacks taunt, and after tricking choice scarf (I found myself in trouble many times) no useful priority or ability to help the team with. Also since I have no bulk in my team, there was no one to switch into using Volt Switch barring Starmie..


    Thanks once more!
  25. Scene Kid

    Scene Kid

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    16
    Sorry for lurking. I'm totally using this team right now on the Pokemon Online server. Took me 3 battles to shoot right up to page 42/431. :] My latest battle I was shot down, a latios/heatran/scizor core took out all but Volcarona and Dragonite. I was faced against Scizor, Haxorus, and frosslass. Fire punch on Hax, because they think ES is coming to kill Frosslass. The fire punch really just comes in handy. I won the battle 2-5, because the guy kept switching in a sleeping Frosslass (restarting the sleep counter, too.) and I would use the turn to DD, it only takes 2 for D-nite to severely kick ass. :/ ES on latios, Fire punch the rest of them. This team works so well together, and makes for quicker matches. Even against a semi-stall rain team, I would just taunt with Thunderus .. My only problem was Gyarados, but Cloyster wiped him off the table. The rain teams get decimated with Breloom. This team is so nice. Sorry for "stealing" it, I just wanted to see what the fuss was about. :D


    Scarfed haxorus was really the only problem, because after 1 QD, volcarona only did 92% damage to it, and HE STILL OUTSPED ME. I would have to switch into Dnite to take the hit, but that can be taken advantage of. I could see a team of Scarves causing problems for this team.

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