Xatu (Special Attacker) (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

[Magcargo]

QC 3/3: RT., Ernesto. SOMALIA
GP 2/2 Fuzznip, melvi

Serebii | Smogon | Bulbepedia​

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Psyshock / Psychic
move 2: Grass Knot
move 3: Heat Wave
move 4: Roost
item: Life Orb
ability: Magic Bounce
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD / 216 Spe

Why this set should be on-site

• Can defeat nearly every common entry hazard user bar obscure ones like Aerodactyl and Golem
• Has incredible coverage with the moves listed above
• Doesn't slow down momentum like Rapid Spin users due
• Isn't outclassed by Azelf due to Magic Bounce

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Xatu's other sets focus on using its typing and Magic Bounce defensively, this set uses its decent Special Attack and movepool to defeat nearly every common entry hazard setter in the tier. This set functions much better on offensive teams, as it does not ruin momentum like Blastoise and Hitmontop do and can pose a threat itself. Psyshock functions as Xatu's primary STAB move, as it can defeat many common hazard setters, such as Nidoqueen and Qwilfish. If using a Modest nature, it is the preferred move over Psychic due to its ability to 2HKO offensive Snorlax after Stealth Rock. However, if using a Timid nature, Psychic is the preferred option, as it will always OHKO standard Nidoqueen, unlike Psyshock. Grass Knot is a key move on this set, as it allows Xatu to defeat the two best Stealth Rock setters in the tier: Rhyperior and Swampert. Heat Wave is used for the purpose of severely denting Steel-types as well as OHKOing on the switch. In fact, it is powerful enough to 2HKO Bronzong and 3HKO Registeel 100% of the time. Finally, Roost is used to mitigate Life Orb recoil and potentially Stealth Rock damage that Xatu has taken.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Using the given EV spread, Xatu is able to outspeed everything up to maximum Speed base 90s. The choice between a Modest and a Timid nature depends on your personal preference. If outspeeding threats such as Timid Nidoking, Jolly Heracross, and Timid Roserade is essential, then a Timid nature is preferred. If 2HKOing Snorlax after Stealth Rock is mandatory, then a Modest nature takes precedence. U-turn is an option on this set, as it allows Xatu to escape from special walls such as Porygon2 and Umbreon and bring in a Fighting-type partner. However, using U-turn forces Xatu to give up one of its coverage moves or Roost, all of which are vital to this set's success.</p>

<p>This set struggles against Empoleon, as it is not 2HKOed by Heat Wave and can 2HKO Xatu at worst with Ice Beam. This set also struggles against certain special walls such as Porygon2 and Umbreon due to Xatu's limited power, as well as common offensive Pokemon such as Zapdos. Therefore, Xatu's best partners are divided into two groups: Pokemon that can deal with these threats, and offensive Pokemon that benefit from the prevention of Stealth Rock. Rhyperior and Swampert can both check offensive Pokemon such as Zapdos, Victini, and Raikou. Offensive Pokemon that benefit from the prevention of Stealth Rock include Yanmega, Victini, Darmanitan, Zapdos, Weavile, and Chandelure. Darmanitan, Zapdos, and Victini in particular benefit from Xatu's ability to lure and defeat Rhyperior and Swampert with Grass Knot.</p>

Skeleton

[SET COMMENTS]

• Uses Xatu's incredible offensive movepool to defeat nearly every common entry hazard setter
• Function better on offensive teams than Xatu's other set due to its greater power and speed
• Psyshock is the main STAB move, as with a Modest nature, Xatu is able to 2HKO offensive Snorlax, as well as OHKO hazard setters such as Nidoqueen and Qwilfish
• Grass Knot defeats SR users like Omastar, Swampert and Rhyperior
• Heat Wave deals a large amount of damage to Steel-types
• Roost migates Life Orb recoil and entry hazard damage

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• Given EVs allow Xatu to outspeed neutral base 85s
• A Timid nature with a spread of 40 Hp / 252 SpA / 216 Spe can be used to outspeed standard Offensive Roserade
  
• If using this spread, then Psychic is recommended over Psyshock, as it has a guaranteed chance to OHKO Nidoqueen
• U-Turn can be used to switch out from an unfavorable situation
• This set cannot beat Empoleon, as it can 2HKO Xatu at worst with Ice Beam, while being to take all of Xatu's coverage moves
• This set also struggles to defeat special walls such as Umbreon and Porygon2 due to Xatu's limited power
• Rhyperior and Swampert can check most variations of Victini, Zapdos, and Raikou and also setup Stealth Rock to support your team
• Offensive Pokemon that benefit from the prevention of Stealth Rock, such as Yanmega, Victini, Darmanitan, Zapdos, Weavile, and Chandelure are solid partners for this set
• Darmanitan, Zapdos, and Victini in particular benefit from Xatu's ability to lure and take out Rhyperior and Swampert.

 

[Psylink]

I agree with most things in this except one thing: Why 48 HP EVs? There's no reason for them, unless there's something amazing it can survive and retaliate with.

 

[Magcargo]

I agree with most things in this except one thing: Why 48 HP EVs? There's no reason for them, unless there's something amazing it can survive and retaliate with.

48 evs are put into Xatu's HP because it doesn't outspeed anything else relevant. Sharpedo and Yanmega usually run an attack boosting nature, while Dramanitan is usually Scarfed.

 

[Psylink]

I see how it is, go on.

 

[Ace Emerald]

By my calculations, you need 216 Speed to hit 308 and outspeed Timid Roserade's 306 (307 is skipped), but I honestly might just max Speed. Sure LO Darm is rare, but the HP EVs do nothing significant while the Speed EVs could. I'd wait for more QC input on that before making the change but that's how I feel.

Team comments for this set should probably focus on two teammates: offensive Pokemon that benefit from lack of hazards, and Pokemon to check the dangerous offensive Pokemon that switch into Xatu. Xatu isn't here to sweep or be an offensive powerhouse, so you shouldn't worry about breaking its checks and counters, just acknowledge they exist. It's here to keep momentum, keep hazards off, and maybe KO a Pokemon or two. However, an offensive Pokemon can sneak in on Xatu, and one should prepare against those threats because they can wreck teams. You got Victini, I'd add Raikou (also checked by Rhyperior), Zapdos, Mew, Sharpedo, Weavile. Those mons can be checked by Snorlax and offensive Suicune, both good choices for a more offensive team. The point of using offensive Xatu is to use offensive Pokemon that are hindered a lot by entry hazards. Choice Specs Yanmega, Offensive Zapdos, Darmanitan, Chandelure, and Victini all take advantage of Xatu's ability to destroy hazard setters. Victini and Darmanitan should get extra emphasis because Xatu often surprise KOs Rhyperior and Swampert, great checks/counters. In my opinion you should remove the line about Heracross and Machamp and change the one about Snorlax and Umbreon to just acknowledge that Xatu should U-turn out.

Definitely feel the set should be onsite and you got the gist of it, it just needs some fine tuning.

 

[Magcargo]

Ace Emerald I have implemented most of your recommended changes.

 

[Nas]

Ok I've used this thing quite a bit, so I'll give my input. Offensive Xatu should be running Modest with Psyshock>Psychic, always. This accomplishes two main things; 2HKOing Offensive Snorlax after SR (so it can't Pursuit you) and OHKO'ing Nidoqueen. I don't see why you'd want to outspeed Roserade, Xatu is a shitty switch-in to any non-Spikes variant, and Sludge Bomb OHKOes without any HP EVs. As for the spread, I generally run 80 Hp / 252 SpA / 176 Speed, which outruns neutral base 85's.

 

[Magcargo]

Ok I've used this thing quite a bit, so I'll give my input. Offensive Xatu should be running Modest with Psyshock>Psychic, always. This accomplishes two main things; 2HKOing Offensive Snorlax after SR (so it can't Pursuit you) and OHKO'ing Nidoqueen. I don't see why you'd want to outspeed Roserade, Xatu is a shitty switch-in to any non-Spikes variant, and Sludge Bomb OHKOes without any HP EVs. As for the spread, I generally run 80 Hp / 252 SpA / 176 Speed, which outruns neutral base 85's.

Actually, the Timid nature is used to outspeed Timid Nidoking and OHKO it with Psychic before it OHKOes with Ice Beam. However, I will use your EV spread and make the Modest nature the main slash, as well as slash Psyshock with Psychic.

 

[Nas]

Nidoqueen is used almost exclusively over Nidoking, the only reason to run Timid would be to outrun Roserade. Anyway, this is what the set should look like:

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Psyshock
move 2: Grass Knot
move 3: Heat Wave
move 4: Roost
item: Life Orb
ability: Magic Bounce
nature: Modest
evs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe

-Timid nature with 40 Hp / 252 SpA / 216 Spe should go to AC, with Psychic > Psyshock
-U-Turn to AC
-Shadow Ball is not even worth mentioning

 

[Magcargo]

Alright, I've implemented your recommended changes RT.

 

[Nas]

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• Choice Specs, but Xatu dislikes being locked into one move
• Victini, Raikou, Sharpedo, Zapdos Mew, and Weavile are just a few offensive Pokemon that can defeat Xatu with little to no difficultly
• Bulky Fighting-types such as Heracross and Machamp can beat many of the aforementioned Pokemon with their STAB fighting moves
• Snorlax and Offensive Suicune can check Weavile, Empoleon, Sharpedo, and Zapdos

Remove all of these points, AC is not for general checks/counters, that's what C&C is for. The most important teammates you need to include are Swampert, Rhyperior, Weavile, and the Fire- and Flying-types that you mentioned. I think you have all of them except for Weavile, so add that and I'll approve this.

 

[Magcargo]

I've implemented your requested changes.

 

[Nas]

QC Approved 1/3

 

[Ernesto]

I don't have many complaints, only "Offensive Pokemon that benefit from the removal of Stealth Rock", it shouldn't be removal since Xatu isn't a Spinner, just something to keep in mind when you write it up.

Other than that,

QC 2/3

 

[Magcargo]

Thanks Ernesto.
I'll get this written up ASAP.

 

[SJCrew]

Whoa whoa whoa, bad idea, let's hit the breaks.

Nidoqueen is used almost exclusively over Nidoking

Nidoqueen accounts for only half of Nidoking's usage. You are going to run into a Nidoking on the ladder and lose to him. As such, this statement is absolute folly. This spread is also slower than:

Timid Rotom-H
Timid Chandelure
Timid Porygon-Z
Timid Kingdra
Jolly Heracross

The only reason I did not list Meloetta is because you cannot damage her significantly. Still, if she is in range, you can use the extra speed to go for the 2HKO instead of being forced out or KOed even while she is weakened. The same goes for all of these. You should never incur a flat loss on this many Pokemon if you can avoid it.

I don't see why you'd want to outspeed Roserade, Xatu is a shitty switch-in to any non-Spikes variant, and Sludge Bomb OHKOes without any HP EVs.

Still, why are you transitioning from a chance of loss to a guaranteed loss? Roserade being forced into Sludge Bomb every turn is huge; you can stay in and attack much more safely with the defending Pokemon that turn. No matter what the Roserade user does, they incur risk. Even if you are wrong, you can always check Roserade on the revenge, rather than just losing. Your spread does not have the option to even revenge KO Roserade, which basically allows it to do what it wants all match.

As for the spread, I generally run 80 Hp / 252 SpA / 176 Speed, which outruns neutral base 85's.

There's Heracross, Kingdra, and... ??? (These Pokemon can both run +Speed viably)

UU may have strange speed tiers, but they still exist. You will have to justify everything you are losing to in the set comments with 'this can beat Snorlax on a predicted switch with just rocks', and you know that even that scenario would never play out perfectly in a real match, considering Xatu can't risk Psyshock vs. any defensive target it's expected to stay in and KO. Almost all of them can severely damage or KO back, and considering the onus is on Xatu to prevent hazards, the safer move is always better.

You can use a better spread (40 HP / 252 Sp. Att / 216 Spe) and still beat Snorlax. Here's how we communicate this to the unassuming player: Timid Psyshock can 2HKO Snorlax (39.26 - 46.42%) with little prior damage (SR and one layer of Spikes).

As for everything else, there is absolutely no notable difference. Grass Knot OHKOs Rhyperior and Swampert, Heat Wave 2HKOs Bronzong, Psyshock KOs...um, nothing, but you still kind of need it. Modest should receive a minor mention in AC for what little it accomplishes.

 

[Magcargo]

I'm not sure about implementing the above changes with out some more discussion. kokoloko Ace Emerald Ernesto LonelyNess PK Gaming reachzero RT. SOMALIA , what are your thoughts on making the former EV spread with a Timid the main spread?

 

[kokoloko]

I meant to post this when I first saw SJCrew's post, but yeah I 100% agree with him. I'm in favor of Timid with at least 216 Speed.

 

[Nas]

SJCrew, I'm going to attempt to take you seriously even though you're basing your argument on ladder usage statistics.

The main problem you run into when using Timid Xatu is the matchup against Nidoqueen and Snorlax. Psyshock fails to OHKO Nidoqueen, while Psychic OHKOes Nidoqueen but leaves you helpless against any kind of Snorlax with Pursuit. Both are rather shitty scenarios for you, considering Nidoqueen is one of the most common SR users and Snorlax is on almost every team. Running a Modest nature alleviates this issue as I explained in my previous post, at the cost of outrunning Timid Roserade and (I guess) Timid Nidoking, which is a tradeoff I would take every time. All the other Pokemon you mentioned are obscure as fuck, Timid Kingdra sees about 3% of usage, and Chandelure and Heracross rarely use +Speed natures outside of their Scarf sets. (Rotom-H and Porygon-Z aren't even KO'd by anything in Xatu's moveset so I don't see the relevance of mentioning them, lol)

I don't think you're keeping in mind Xatu's primary objective, regardless of its set, which is to ensure SR stays off the field. A Modest nature helps you do that more effectively, if you want to compromise that so you can revenge kill all the shit you mentioned then you're doing it wrong.

 

[Ernesto]

For the short periods I used this set, I ran Timid 216 Speed EVs, but RT had more experience with it so I agreed with his spread.

Truth is, considering that Offensive Rose generally doesn't run Spikes, the only move you'll be wanting to switch into anyway is Sleep Powder, because Leaf Storm will do a shitton anyway, so I'd be hesitant of switching in if I didn't see Lefties. Nidoking I'll give it to you, although it generally has better things to do than setting up SR anyway.
On the other hand, I can agree that outspeeding those things can be worth it, so I really could go either way. Needing SR + a layer of Spikes to ensure the 2HKO on Snorlax is something I don't particularly like, because there aren't many viable things that can set up both, so it shouldn't be considered a common situation. So it'll basically mean the difference between beating Lax and losing Bird. And Nidoqueen is also a tricky one; those are definitely two Pokes you'll see often in high level play.

I definitely see why the extra speed can be useful, so I'm not opposed to it. But beating Nidoqueen and Snorlax with certainty is really nice too. It would be good if we could compromise and slash both natures, with Roserade as the Pokemon we aim for. I'll have to settle for whatever the majority wants in this one.

 

[SJCrew]

No, RT., preventing rocks is the primary purpose of standard Xatu. If you did not want to contend with offensive Pokemon, you can go bulky, put up the Reflect, then say 'deuces' with U-turn. Beats Nidoqueen and switches out of Snorlax safely with no prediction. Why would you make an offensive Xatu that poses no offensive threat? There's no reason to recommend this set to players if its sole function is to surprise two Pokémon, only with prediction, then lose to everything else.

Your reasons for Modest seem a lot more personal than practical. You include such biases as 'I never see these Pokemon' and 'all the important guys use Nidoqueen over Nidoking', but you fail to mention that not even Modest Psyshock is a guaranteed KO on Nidoqueen, and the fact that you can simply not switch out on Snorlax's Pursuit if it is that obvious. A light tap on either Nidoqueen or Snorlax is enough to guarantee those KOs you seek with Timid instead of getting greedy and losing out on that speed with Modest.

Let's forget the rest of the dressing for a moment. Do you really expect to tell a player NOT to switch in Xatu on two of the most common Pokemon in the tier (Nidoking and Roserade) because even if you predict properly, you will still lose the fight? It seems fairly obvious to me that the benefits of Modest are a lot more superficial than you're describing.

 

[Nas]

"lose to everything else"

lol, the only other things you lose to are Pokemon that do not see any usage. Timid Rotom-H, Jolly Heracross, and Timid Kingdra are far too uncommon to use as a justification for your spread. Maybe you want to add Jolly CB Krookodile to your list?

You failed to address the points in my post with a valid argument and you're basically just talking out of your ass at this point, so I'm going to avoid an inevitable argument that is just going to go in circles and let the other QC members weigh in.

 

[Psychotic]

For once in my life, I agree with RT. Modest nature allowing you to 2HKO Snorlax is huge, since a lot of teams' strategies for dealing with Xatu involve Pursuit trapping it with Snorlax. None of the speeds you mentioned (Timid Rotom-H, Timid Chandelure, Timid Porygon-Z, Timid Kingdra, Jolly Heracross) are relevant in this metagame, because those pokemon are either carrying a speed boosting item, Xatu can't really do much to them, or the nature you stated simply isn't used. Roserade and Nidoking are the only two reasons you should ever run Timid Offensive Xatu, you can't switch safely into either of these mons, and if you switch in after a kill, they will in all likelihood switch out.

 

[SJCrew]

lol, the only other things you lose to are Pokemon that do not see any usage. Timid Rotom-H, Jolly Heracross, and Timid Kingdra are far too uncommon to use as a justification for your spread. Maybe you want to add Jolly CB Krookodile to your list?

And if we're going to base our entire argument on usage instead of practicality now, not nearly as uncommon as Qwilfish, which, though good, is not used enough even to be UU, yet is mentioned in the OP? I only mentioned usage for Nidoking because you specifically mentioned it being used less than Nidoqueen, which is far from the truth. I'm not sure what your problem is, but you seem to be losing your composure over this issue, so I'll leave you be. Speed is always a pretty big deal in any tier, especially for 'offensive' Pokemon which are lacking in bulk such as Xatu. UU always seems to have this dead space between 80 and 100 where any # of Pokemon could be running min or max for difference reasons, so the issue of running speed in general is really never that cut and dry.

@Psych: Granted, if offensive teams are relying on Snorlax to get rid of Xatu, that's a good point; the only other issue is that the ability for this set to beat Xatu requires really tight prediction, as any Snorlax can beat this coming in on its other three moves. Vs. the likes of Rhyperior, you have to go for the obvious move or risk Xatu dying and rocks going up. It seems a bit superfluous to base this set's spread entirely around luring in Snorlax when it's still a risky move at best.

 

[Magcargo]

Alright, since this discussion is going nowhere, why not make a compromise and make the set look something like this:

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Psyshock / Psychic
move 2: Grass Knot
move 3: Heat Wave
move 4: Roost
item: Life Orb
ability: Magic Bounce
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe

The Speed EVs are bumped up to 216 to allow Xatu to outpace neutral or positive 90s (depending on which nature you run). Psyshock and the Modest nature remain the main slashes, as 2HKOing Snorlax is still pretty important. However, the Timid nature an Psychic remain slashes if the user feels as if outspeeding Nidoking, Roserade, and Timid Suicune is important.

Thoughts?