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Xerneas

Discussion in 'Ubers' started by superstar, Oct 15, 2013.

  1. superstar

    superstar

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    [​IMG]
    Name: Xerneas
    Type: Fairy
    Ability: Fairy Aura
    Base Stats: 126 / 131 / 95 / 131 / 98 / 99

    Level-Up Movepool

    Lv<50 - Heal Pulse
    Lv<50 - Aromatherapy
    Lv<50 - Ingrain
    Lv<50 - Take Down
    Lv<50 - Light Screen
    Lv<50 - Aurora Beam
    Lv<50 - Gravity
    Lv<50 - Geomancy
    Lv<50 - Moonblast
    Lv<50 - Megahorn
    Lv51 - Night Slash

    Lv55 - Horn Leech
    Lv59 - Psych Up
    Lv63 - Misty Terrain
    Lv80 - Close Combat
    Lv88 - Giga Impact
    Lv93 - Outrage

    TM & HM Compatibility

    TM03 - Psyshock
    TM04 - Calm Mind
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM17 - Protect
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM24 - Thunderbolt
    TM27 - Return
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM42 - Facade
    TM44 - Rest
    TM52 - Focus Blast
    TM70 - Flash
    TM73 - Thunder Wave
    TM86 - Grass Knot
    TM88 - Sleep Talk
    TM96 - Nature Power
    TM99 - Dazzling Gleam
    TM100 - Confide
    HM01 - Cut


    Xerneas is one of the title legendaries introduced this generation. I'd like to point out straight away that per the forum rules, we are not allowed to discuss whether it will be banned or not.

    The main attraction of Xerneas so far is it's signature move, Geomancy. This move grants a +2 boost to Speed, Special Attack, and Special Defense. It has a charge turn that can be eliminated by using Power Herb. Combined with powerful moves such as Fairy Aura-boosted STAB, 95 BP Moonblast, Focus Blast, and Thunderbolt, Xerneas is shaping up to be one of the most feared sweepers in all of Gen 6.

    Unfortunately, Xerneas proves to be easily prepared for and simple to wall with Pokemon like Ho-Oh, Aegislash, Arceus, Metagross, and Bronzong. You DO have to prepare for it on any Ubers team, but if it is prepared for it is not a problem since it only gets one chance to sweep.

    Despite this, pure Fairy is a great typing, and Xerneas can check many Ubers effectively.

    With base attacking stats of 131/131/99, Xerneas falls just short of speed tying Palkia, but does outspeed many other powerful Pokémon such as Dialga, Rayquazza, and ties Genesect. It sports solid bulk at 126/95/98 (just short of Kyurem-B's bulk, for comparison).



    Possible Sets:

    Choice Scarf:

    Xerneas @ Choice Scarf
    EVs: 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    -Moonblast
    -Focus Blast
    -Hidden Power Fire
    -Psyshock

    Scarf Xerneas is probably its best bet of succeeding in the Pokebank Ubers metagame. With a Timid Nature and a Scarf equipped, it can outspeed the whole unboosted metagame bar Deo-S and speed tie Scarf Genesect. Thanks to it's Fighting and Dark resists and Dragon immunity, it is capable of revenge killing and checking a large variety of threats including Yvetal, Darkrai, Mewtwo (all formes), Arceus-Fight, Palkia, Dialga, Giratina(-O), Zekrom, Resharim, and sometimes Blaziken and Rayquazza.

    This set is more easily countered, with Ho-Oh and most steel-types tanking Xerneas's attacks with ease. Psyshock is used to hit Ho-Óh, Blissey, and Arceus-Poison while Hidden Power Fire, though weak, can hit Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Scizor for good damage.

    Geomancy:
    Xerneas @ Power Herb
    EVs: 176 HP/ 252 SpAtk/ 76 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SpAtk, -Atk)
    -Geomancy
    -Moonblast
    -Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire
    -Psyshock / Thunderbolt

    Xerneas can easily set up a one-turn Geomancy due to its bulk and Dragon immunity. From there, Xereneas becomes a terrifying sweeper that is difficult to revenge kill. Moonblast is boosted by Fairy Aura and STAB and hits nearly everything for massive damage. Thunderbolt allows neutral coverage on fire-types such as Ho-oh and Heatran, and Focus Blast allows Xerneas to hit Steel-types. Hidden Power Fire is useful over Focus Blast to deal 60% minimum to 252/0 Aegislash while still OHKOing Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory at +2 if you can get rid of the rain. Psyshock may be even better than Thunderbolt, allowing Xerneas to get past Blissey, Ho-oh, and Poison-Arceus

    The given EVs allow Xerneas to outspeed Deoxys-S and by extension all scarfers at Garchomp's base 102 or slower. You can add a few more EVs to outspeed Scarf Terrakion, Excadrill in sand, and Scarf Mewtwo if so desired.

    The problem with this set is that it can only set up once. You get one chance to sweep and if a Lugia or Arceus manages to tank a hit and phaze you then you are essentially dead weight the rest of the match.


    RestTalk Cleric
    Xerneas @ Leftovers
    252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Def
    Calm Nature (+SpDef, -Atk)
    -Rest
    -Sleep Talk
    -Moonblast
    -Aromatherapy

    On stall teams in need of a Cleric, Xerneas is a great mon for the job. With above-average bulk and key resists, it is able to check Darkrai, Palkia, Giratina-O, and Yvetal, all of whom threaten common stall team archetypes.

    Rest and Sleep Talk combine for semi-reliable recovery. Aromatherapy wakes you up if you hit it, so it isn't wasted during sleep turns. Moonblast has great coverage in Ubers and hits all the Dragons and Dark-types reasonably hard even when uninvested.

    Status Spreader
    Xerneas Leftovers / Pixie Plate
    252 HP / some investment in all your defenses and maybe enough Speed to beat Modest Kyogre? Idk
    -Thunder Wave
    -Toxic
    -Moonblast
    -Hidden Power Fire / Focus Blast / Aromatherapy / Roar

    Xerneas can lure in its usual checks like Ho-Oh and Lugia and cripple them with status. Thunder Wave and Toxic can cripple offensive mons, while Xerneas has great coverage to hit Steel-types with HP Fire and its signature STAB Fairy Aura Moonblast. Roar and Aromatherapy are also excellent team support options.


    All-Out Attacker:
    Xerneas @ Life Orb
    100 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 156 SpAtk
    Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpDef)
    -Moonblast
    -Close Combat
    -Psyshock / HP Fire
    -Rock Slide

    With a Life Orb and it's great Special Attack, Xerneas can deal heavy damage and be tough to wall. It suffers from the same problems as the Geomancy set, but the higher initial power means that this Xerneas set can hit its counters harder than they were expecting, since 2 LO boosted attacks are much stronger than one +2 unboosted attack.

    Rock Slide wrecks Ho-Oh, Close Combat slaughters pink blobs, Moonblast hits obscenely hard, and Psyshock gets Amoonguss. Also you can run HP Fire for Scizor. The attack EVs guarantee a KO against 252 HP Ho-Oh without SR.

    SubCM
    Xerneas @ Leftovers
    252 HP/ 252 Spe

    -Calm Mind
    -Substitute
    -Moonblast
    -Psyshock / Focus Blast / Thunderbolt

    Although it is outclassed by Fairy Arceus, Xerneas makes a decent SubCM user for any team that needs to use another Arceus forme. Calm Mind and Substitute combine to allow Xerneas to set up against offensive Pokémon it forces out as well as defensive Pokémon that lack roar or Gyro Ball.

    Checks and Counters:

    As said above, the major problem with the Geomancy set is that it can only set up once. Once forced out, it becomes an average Pokémon with no item. Checks to the Geomancy set include Scizor, who can't take a +2 Focus Blast but can deal heavy damage with CB Bullet Punch after rocks. Scizor's Mega Forme can take a hit with some SpDef investment and easily 2HKO. Specially Defensive Poison Arceus and Ho-oh can both take a hit and retaliate with super-effective attacks or phazing. Extremespeed from Rayquazza and Arceus-Normal can together take down a weakened Xerneas. Sturdy Forretress can take one hit, survive with 1 HP, and retaliate with STAB Gyro Ball. Aegislash can survive any attack and KO with Iron Head and Shadow Sneak. Lugia totally walls Xerneas if Multiscale is intact, and even if it isn't, the big bird can "revenge" by tanking a hit and phazing. Specially Defensive Kyogre can take any attack and phaze with Roar. Amoongus can take anything except Psyshock and Spore, allowing a physical attacker or phazer to switch in and take Xerneas out.

    The Life Orb set has more checks such as Iron Head Genesect, Steel Arceus, and Flash Cannon Dialga, although Xerneas can beat nearly all its counters with the correct move

    The Scarf set is the easiest to counter. Heatran, Ho-Oh, and Lugia all do admirably against it, but the former two fear Focus Blast and Rock Slide respectively.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  2. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    Is it worth it to lose your item slot to get a 1 turn Double Quiver Dance? I don't know. I think you could still try running Geomancy on a non-PH set - switch in on an Outrage, start the setup as their move winds down, finish it as they switch in whatever they have to try to deal with the threat.

    I note that CB Scizor may not be AS common in Ubers this gen, due to the added defensive might that his Mega Evolution brings.
  3. Groudon ex

    Groudon ex

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    Moonblast has 95 BP and hence is the stronger STAB option.
  4. superstar

    superstar

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    I'm not sure if Geomancy is viable on non-Power Herb sets. The opponent won't really spam outrage once he sees Xerneas in Team Preview, and not bringing a Power Herb is a risky move when it allows Ho-Oh or V-create Ray a free switch-in

    EDIT: Edited OP to put in Moonblast
  5. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    Natre Power becomes Tri-Attack now so it's irrelevant.

    The first set is countered by Arceus-Poison, Lugia (at full health for Multiscale), Nidoqueen and (M-)Venusaur. None of them can directly win 1-on-1, but they can phaze it out. After that Xerneas will be much less threatening without its Power Herb.
    Chansey and Blissey can also use Psych Up to copy its boosts and Toxic stall it.
    Prankster users can try to stop its sweep with Thunder Wave or Topsy-Turvy, assuming there is something that gets both.

    The second set can no longer be countered by the pink blobs but bulky Poison types will easily wall it. Again, Arceus-Poison is easily the best counter.

    EDIT: Xerneas learns Psyshock, which means poison-types and pink blobs are NOT reliable counters.
    I'm inclined to say that Xerneas is uncounterable until you know its entire moveset.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  6. Robert Alfons

    Robert Alfons I thought I could organize freedom
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Max HP + defense Chansey still isn't 2HKO'd by +2 Psyshock, even when Xerneas runs a Modest nature. Literally everything else is 2HKO'd though, so gg ubers.
  7. FlowingCloud

    FlowingCloud

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    I am interested that fairy aura boost how much dmg?

    some said 20% only , but some said 50%~
  8. Haruno

    Haruno

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    Assault vest aegislash and assault vest ho oh still wall xerneas to hell and back as I've been stating on the chat =/ without assault vest, unless you're running something with bullet punch xerneas will be hard to stop

    Edit, also ditto which acted as a pseudo check to most uber users works incredibly well as well since it forces the opposing xerneas to postpone its geomancy.

    Edit2: xerneas should be using 252hp/252+ SpA imo since investing in speed isn't really necessary since at +2 it outspeeds the whole tier anyhow and there aren't really any benefits to outspeeding on turn 1 with that lack luster speed since the things you would outsped wouldn't stay in anyhow.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  9. Atomsage

    Atomsage

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    It is definitely NOT 50%.
  10. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Dark Aura was (iirc) calculated to be around a 30% boost. I assume Fairy Aura would be the same.
  11. FlowingCloud

    FlowingCloud

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    ha thx , I guess they will be the same

    then we can calculate the exact dmg for xerneas using a moon blast with +2 Spa now
  12. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    Assault Vest gives the holder a permanent Taunt effect, so the very idea of Aegislash and Ho-oh running it is crazy. The former will be stuck in blade forme after the first attack and won't be able to setup, the latter can't run Roost. And I'm pretty sure a +1 Sp.Def Ho-oh isn't taking a +2 SE Thunderbolt after SR damage anyways.
  13. Haruno

    Haruno

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    Ho oh shouldn't be running roost anyways. It's much better off running BB/SF/filler coverage though I guess losing sleep talk is a hit but mehs I can't see darkrai being as common in XY. Ho oh avoids the ohko from +2 thunderbolt even after sr and ho oh shouldn't be used if you can't keep sr off anyhow. Aegislash neutered xerneas which I think is a fair trade off while being quite a threatening offensive threat after xerneas dies/switches out even though your opp gets a "free" turn afterwards.
  14. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    What? Ho-Oh is a great bulky attacker, and no matter how you slice it after SR and with Brave Bird being the main move you're going to need Roost to stand a chance of staying alive for more than two turns.
  15. Haruno

    Haruno

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    Sr should not be up anyhow if you're using Ho oh. ALso what would let you roost after Ho oh secures a kill? It's main form of healing is in regen.....
  16. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    That's true, but that doesn't mean you should expect it to always be down. Getting rid of SR in a tier with Ghostceus and Giratina is never easy, and as long as it's up Ho Oh requires Roost. And even if it's down, residual recoil means Roost is going to be needed if you want to outlast other pokemon... like Xerneas.
  17. Haruno

    Haruno

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    Unless you're using ho oh on stall (lol) then you'll be using Ho oh as an offensive pivot which can't really afford to lose momentum to spin, hence why players use magic bouncers over a spinner thus adding tremendous amounts of pressure on the opponent when they opt to press sr. A good player would be able to keep sr off and thus maximizing Ho oh's potential, this'll probably change when XY ubers takes off but as far as 5th gen is concerned youd be using bouncers to keep up offensive momentum.

    Edit: you're not aiming to outlast things with Ho oh, this isn't gliscor. Your goal with ho oh is to outright secure a kill with regen to prolong its longevity
  18. Annabeth

    Annabeth

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    Can you provide a source for this please ?
    Anyway, a 30% boost for Fairy Aura is huge... This is going to be really hard to stop.
  19. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    The source is Xerneas' thread in the research section.
  20. escarlata

    escarlata

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    Opponent should never be spamming Outrage is he sees Xerneas in team preview, if that still exists. Also, Power Herb way outclasses Life Orb as a viable item on Xerneas because Xerneas does not NEED the raw power from Life Orb, since it can easily KO all the relevant phasers. Aside from bulky-Poison types phasers, which walls either set. Lugia is the only relevant wall that has a chance of beating +2 252+ Xerneas.

    Assuming Fairy Aura is x1.2
    +2 252+ SpA (custom) (Moonblast) vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Lugia: 267-315 (64.18 - 75.72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +2 252+ SpA (custom) (Moonblast) vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Lugia: 267-315 (64.18 - 75.72%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +2 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) (Moonblast) vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Lugia: 347-409 (83.41 - 98.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +2 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) (Moonblast) vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Lugia: 347-409 (83.41 - 98.31%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252+ SpA (custom) (Moonblast) vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Lugia: 282-332 (67.78 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +2 252+ SpA (custom) (Moonblast) vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Lugia: 282-332 (67.78 - 79.8%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +2 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) (Moonblast) vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Lugia: 367-432 (88.22 - 103.84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO because Multiscale

    Assuming Fairy Aura is x1.3, which makes neutral Moonblast > SE Thunderbolt
    +2 252+ SpA (custom) (Moonblast) vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Lugia: 288-340 (69.23 - 81.73%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +2 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) (Moonblast) vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Lugia: 374-442 (89.9 - 106.25%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Running either item will grant that guaranteed 2HKO on Lugia anyway, and it is not OHKO-ing Lugia anytime soon without rocks at +2 regardless of items.

    If Fairy Aura is indeed x1.3, then Xerneas should never be running Thunderbolt, so it can run Sub/Psych Up/Aromatheraphy, or Psyshock if it learns it, to beat the pink blobs one-on-one
    Alert to Sounds likes this.
  21. Haruno

    Haruno

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    It's not running tbolt for Lugia, it's running tbolt for Ho oh and skarm and w/e else resists/immune to fairy/ground coverage which Lugia is not.
  22. escarlata

    escarlata

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    Forgot Ho-oh resists Fairy :/
    But Skarm is cleanly 2OHKO-ed by +2 252 Moonblast

    But if it does learn Psyshock, it should use it over other coverage moves. Beating bulky poisons and pink blobs is more important than OHKO-ing Skarms imo.
  23. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    Life Orb is pretty much unusable on the Geomancy set anyways because of the charge turn. As for "bulky Poison-types" who should be even facing Xerneas only two exist: Mega Venusaur and Arceus-Poison and both of them fall to Psyshock anyways.
    However Arceus-Poison and M-Venusaur face competition for a teamslot, respectively, from other Arceus formes and mega evolutions, so I don't think they'll be very common.

    A Prankster+Topsy-Turvy user, if such a thing exists (and doesn't suck), is probably the most reliable way to counter the Geomancy set.
  24. Haruno

    Haruno

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    Thank god fairy/ground provide incredible coverage. With the only notable resists being skarm/ho oh which tbolt hits for SE damage Bliss are a non factor since they're just begging to be set up bait and you could just run close combat if they really worry you that much (they shouldn't). Overall I see no reason why you should run psyshock since poisceus isn't good for much bar walling xerneas somewhat.
  25. escarlata

    escarlata

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    Maybe because it doesn't learn any ground type special moves?

    EDIT: Anyways with its current special movepool its best 3 move coverage should be Fairy/Fighting/Psychic, only resisted by Victini. Followed by Fairy/Electric/Fighting, resisted by Steels with a secondary type resistant to Electric, the only relevant ones being Ferrothorn and Excadril

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