Ladder ORAS 1v1 [3v3 Team Preview]

[Shocker14]

(Urm....)
One pokemon I find that destroys the many pokemon that are (very) common is mew. Sylveon, moxie users (as well as guts users) get destroyed by this set. It's fast enough to outspeed some of it's counters, yet it is still weak against Greninja, it, with it's massive movepool might still continue to decimate it.

Mew @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Sludge Wave/Heat Wave
- Nasty Plot/Calm Mind/Amnesia
- Gastro Acid

It can take down Magnemite (not sure of the set exactly) but it's Toxic + Berry Juice + Recycle combo is quite dangerous, yet with Gastro, it stops pixillate, sturdy, Guts and Moxie as said in the earlier point. Edit:- Sitrus Berry is needed, as it allows him to survive a (Gastro acid being used to get rid of Pixillate) (2)hyper beam(s) from Sylveon, and still 2HKO back with psychic. Heat Wave is there to deal with mawile, and Calm mind is to deal with Porygon-Z and other special attackers. If you have more of a deal with special attackers, you can you amnesia to take care of them.

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

(Urm....)
One pokemon I find that destroys the many pokemon that are (very) common is mew. Sylveon, moxie users (as well as guts users) get destroyed by this set. It's fast enough to outspeed some of it's counters, yet it is still weak against Greninja, it, with it's massive movepool might still continue to decimate it.

Mew @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Sludge Wave/Heat Wave
- Nasty Plot/Calm Mind/Amnesia
- Gastro Acid

It can take down Magnemite (not sure of the set exactly) but it's Toxic + Berry Juice + Recycle combo is quite dangerous, yet with Gastro, it stops pixillate, sturdy, Guts and Moxie as said in the earlier point. Edit:- Sitrus Berry is needed, as it allows him to survive a (Gastro acid being used to get rid of Pixillate) (2)hyper beam(s) from Sylveon, and still 2HKO back with psychic. Heat Wave is there to deal with mawile, and Calm mind is to deal with Porygon-Z and other special attackers. If you have more of a deal with special attackers, you can you amnesia to take care of them.

Why would anyone ever use Moxie in 1v1? Are you thinking of a different ability?

 

[aegii]

Should Brightpowder be banned (and Swagger)? Swagger Whimsicott by itself is hard to handle, but if a Brightpowder were to be put on it it would raise its evasion, making it even harder to even hit. Prankster further cripples the defending mon, and also I thought Smogon frowned on evasion boosts.

 

[candylatte]

Since no one answered Kraein's question, I'd like to ask a second time. Why isn't swagger banned in 1v1? It is from regular OU, so I don't see how it would be "less" bad here to allow it.

 

[Shocker14]

Oops, mistype there. I meant sturdy + berry juice + recycle, definitely a combo which can annoy many players, a gimmick which for unprepared teams, can mean a loss which can really annoy. (By the set above I mean magnemite lv1)

I think I know. The best use for it are defensive sets, but, foul play isn't common, and that was the reason it was banned in the first place. It's like talonflame, but it's so fragile and most pokemon in this tier are strongl and bulky, they can take a hit and finish talonflame

 

[BossPlayerOG]

candylatte It's probably because swagger isn't a problem, its just a confuse that has a worse backfire if it doesn't pay off. Swagger isn't too hard to deal with, and this also isn't regular OU, since mega lucario is allowed, yet its banned for OU

 

[Shocker14]

candylatte It's probably because swagger isn't a problem, its just a confuse that has a worse backfire if it doesn't pay off. Swagger isn't too hard to deal with, and this also isn't regular OU, since mega lucario is allowed, yet its banned for OU

I agree. You have said it a lot better than I have, but we wanted the same purpose! :)

 

[Batman™]

I've seen few people using Mirror Coat in the 1v1 battles and mostly people use it as a substitute for Sash-Endeavor. Why not have a suspect test for it?

 

[aegii]

I've seen few people using Mirror Coat in the 1v1 battles and mostly people use it as a substitute for Sash-Endeavor. Why not have a suspect test for it?

it's easily defeated by physical moves and multi-hit moves. Sturdy is what should be tested, since Focus Sash is banned.

 

[Uselesscrab]

it's easily defeated by physical moves and multi-hit moves. Sturdy is what should be tested, since Focus Sash is banned.

Not to mention that it also loses to status and setup, even from special attackers.

 

[Batman™]

Yeah I forgot to mention about that sturdy, recycle, sitrus berry combination I've seen.

Edit: A Sturdy and low level thing- http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/1v1-126354457

 

[Uselesscrab]

Yeah I forgot to mention about that sturdy, recycle, sitrus berry combination I've seen.

Edit: A Sturdy and low level thing- http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/1v1-126354457

Not OP. Loses to Mold Breaker and all of its clones, in addition to multi-hit moves, status, Taunt, and Magic Coat/Bounce.

 

[Mulan15262]

Don't forget that it loses to Protect/Substitute/Toxic/Sandstorm Gliscor (even though it should be an attacking move, not Sandstorm, and it ends up with the Magnemite Struggle/KOing itself) and anything with Infestation and similar.

It also loses to Teravolt/Turboblaze and Parental Bond, although its users are banned.

 

[Yozora]

SturdyJuice and its clones all lose to things with a single support move (even Substitute), and with a bit of hax, to anything with Iron Head/Flamethrower/Dark Pulse/Air Slash, etc.

Sturdy is what should be tested, since Focus Sash is banned.

Relevant Sturdy users :
Golem (WP + Stabs + Sucker Punch + Filler)
Magnezone (Specs or Balloon+Mirror Coat or WP)
Crustle (Shell Smash + Counter + Rock Wrecker)
Aggron (Metal Burst + Mega)
and Shuckle but nothing is OHKOing Shuckle anytime soon.

Magnezone, while somewhat underated, is the most "broken", since it can 2HKO a huge number of threats with ease. Mold Breakers cannot beat it since it walls Cube's standard set and Ballon trolls Excadrill (which isn't common at all anyway). It does loose to PP Stall/CM Blissey, WoW CharX, Metal Burst and some stallers.
Aggron is annoying, but predicable, and cannot do shit against stallers not weak to its stabs moves. Blissey, Chansey, Deoxys-D, Venusaur, Smeargle, Substitute, etc. all counter Aggron, Mega or not.

In a nutshell : Sturdy loses to Stall and Sweepers that carry support moves. Sturdy enables creativity, and isn't overcentralizing.

Focus sash, however, allows you to pick and already horribly annoying mon and tranform it into Satan. It also work with fast sweepers, basically doubling their power if they outspeed the opponent (a good strategy would be sashed Ambipom, since it breaks other sashes and 2HKO things with Last resort)

 

[aesf]

Personally, I think focus sash should stay banned. Heck, all you need to do is slap sash on a really big threat like kyurem-b, and you're safe.

List of things that would be annoying with sash:
sash leech seed recycle cottonee
sash endeavor quick attack (insert pokemon here)
sash kyurem-b
sash everything

the meta right now is already pretty nice. We don't need to screw it over with something that can make every pokemon boring or repetitive. Sturdy was never broken due to the presence of teravolt, stallers, etc. Sash will defeat all of those counters.

also while you're at it can you PLEASE ban swagger everytime someone slaps it on a random pokemon i always lose

 

[ryan]

I do think that we should have some consistency, whether we ban Sturdy or unban Focus Sash. It's true that you can't slap Sturdy on anything, but Sturdy Pokemon function exactly the same as Focus Sash Pokemon do.

Honestly, I would just like to see a greater variety of Pokemon in this metagame. It's going to be Greninja and Mega Charizard everywhere forever unless we give people a reason not to use them, which unbanning Focus Sash will do exactly. Right now, the 1v1 ladder is basically just a cycle of these Pokemon, their counters (things with Sturdy or any semblance of bulk), and their counters' counters (really strong shit like Mega Mawile, Kyurem-B, etc). There's not much crossover among any of these things really, barring Kyurem-B which I'm still not a huge fan of, though I'm beginning to appreciate.

I'm not sure if Focus Sash would really solve this because it might just start its own new chain reaction of strong things with priority than carry Focus Sash, their counters, and their counters counters, but there's no way to know without giving it a chance in the metagame. It would also be nice to climb a ton early on with some random sashmon like Breloom that can wreck Charizard and Greninja. B)

 

[Eminegg]

Err, guys, pardon if I'm talking about something already proved not overpowered enough to be banned, but shouldn't Mega Luke be banned just like all other Ubers?

 

[Yozora]

Honestly, I would just like to see a greater variety of Pokemon in this metagame. It's going to be Greninja and Mega Charizard everywhere forever unless we give people a reason not to use them, which unbanning Focus Sash will do exactly. Right now, the 1v1 ladder is basically just a cycle of these Pokemon, their counters (things with Sturdy or any semblance of bulk), and their counters' counters (really strong shit like Mega Mawile, Kyurem-B, etc). There's not much crossover among any of these things really, barring Kyurem-B which I'm still not a huge fan of, though I'm beginning to appreciate.

If you think that Greninja and Char are toxic to this meta, then the best would be to suspect it : you need almost no skill to have them work (just like Swagger in OU), and they spell doom for many otherwise viable strategies. Basically, they both have one viable set (Spec Hydro Canon for Greninja, Flare Blitz/Outrage/EQ/Support for Char), and kill any form of diversity.
Nonetheless, I've run many "underrated" mons to great success, so try to think "outside the box".

That said, I think we should allow Focus Sash for a bit and then decide wether or not it is banworthy (I believe it is, but you never know...)

 

[Batman™]

Graninja and Zard X/Y aren't a thing of concern anymore, they can be defeated using a wide range of Pokémon. But Focus Sash shouldn't never be unbanned, it is really too OP for 1v1 ;p

 

[Yozora]

Graninja and Zard X/Y aren't a thing of concern anymore, they can be defeated using a wide range of Pokémon. But Focus Sash shouldn't never be unbanned, it is really too OP for 1v1 ;p

I know, I force myself to run Frog- and FEAR-proof mons. However, Hollywood was explaining that we are "trapped in a loop" : people run Sturdy so as to counter Choice items, then Stall to counter Sturdy, then Stallbreaker for Stallers, then Sturdy for Stallbreakers.

For Sash : I also believe it's somewhat OP and can be abused by the like of Whimsicott, but is a mere item banworthy ? I mean, anything can held it : "if everything is broken, nothing is broken", are they ?

 

[ryan]

The problem is that Greninja and Charizard aren't broken, so they shouldn't be banned. It's pretty much that simple. There's no reason to ban them just because they're the most used Pokemon.

And trust me, I've run plenty of underrated Pokemon, and I've thought far beyond the box at this point. The problem is that there is very little out there that is as consistent as those two because they are so powerful, and very few things can both tank a hit and hit hard back because Focus Sash isn't in the metagame.

I agree with you though. There's no way to know whether or not it's broken without testing it out.

 

[North]

I'm actually surprised i don't see many people running this set this gen,

Aggron@Aggronite
Evs: 252 Hp 252 Attack
Ivs: 0 Speed
Nature: Adamant
-Metal Burst
-Iron head/Heavy Slam
-Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Avalance
-Earthquake

 

[Yozora]

The problem is that Greninja and Charizard aren't broken, so they shouldn't be banned. It's pretty much that simple. There's no reason to ban them just because they're the most used Pokemon.

And trust me, I've run plenty of underrated Pokemon, and I've thought far beyond the box at this point. The problem is that there is very little out there that is as consistent as those two because they are so powerful, and very few things can both tank a hit and hit hard back because Focus Sash isn't in the metagame.

When I mentioned "underrated mons", I wanted to refer to some unexpected Stallers more than Sweepers, but I guess you got a point there. Nonetheless, even though Greninja and Charizard aren't OP, I feel like you have just proven that they are somewhat overcentralizing. In fact, nothing (bar 670 BST mons etc.) is truly broken in 1v1 as you will always find a counter to a given mon ("checks" don't really exist in 1v1, since they don't need to switch in), think of Mega-Mom and Sableye.

To my mind, the best answer to the like of Greninja would be :
- Unban Focus Sash
- Ban Focus Sash + Whimsicott or Cottonee

Whimsicott :
0 SpA Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 294-348 (121.4 - 143.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Stall ? Taunt
Sweeper w/Toxic ? Substitute
Low HP Sweeper ? F.E.A.R
Mega Heracross ? Whimsicott has HURRICANE
I know it can't beat all of those in the same set, but it would horribly overcentralizing.

There may be other annoying things but I think Whimsicott is just the worst. A complex ban of Sash+Sleep inducing move might become useful if people start running Smeargle.

 

[Olaph Olaffsson]

I've had this one used against me:

Level 1 Aron @ Berry Juice

Ability Sturdy

Endeavor
Metal Burst
Sandstorm
?

Good old F.E.A.R. Sandstorm kills non-Ground/Rock/Steel types, and Metal Burst kills all attacking pokémon. Gets beaten by Mold Breakers and Sandstorm immune status users.

 

[aesf]

So sorry if you've heard me say this at least a billion times and it's getting on your nerves, but I peaked at number 291 on the ladder by only using this set:

Steelix@Choice Specs(lol)
EVs: Max HP Max SpA
Ability: Sheer Force
Quiet nature (for those annoying aggrons)
- Earth Power
- Flash cannon
- Dark pulse
- Hidden power Ice/Rock

It started as a joke on a joke alt. Then I got to 1228. Then I got to 1402. Then I got to 1499. So I'm here to share with you what is probably the greatest gimmick/anti-meta pokemon on 1v1. Basically, if uou see a charizard, always go for earth power, since you'll never defeat a zard y and you ohko zard x. Mega mawile just dies to earth power. Flash cannon OHKO's naughty kyurem-b's. Basically the only thing that prevented me from going to 1600 was the fact that two people were using sawks, which utterly destroy this thing. Dark pulse ko's balloon jirachi and aegislash as well as shedinja. Ancientpower is incompatible with sheer force, or else you would be able to ohko zard y if it missed. Sableye takes around 90% from earth power.

Stuff I can't beat without miracle rng:
Mega venu (a guy actually missed sleep powder 3 times against me though)
Golem
SAWK I HATE YOU
Zard y
Specs porygon z
Bulky kyurem-b
Greninja
Dragonite

So you can try it out if you really want to, I've had some success with it, maybe you will too, idk.