ORAS FU Metagame Discussion (old)

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Tokyo Tom

Somewhere between psychotic and iconic
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Carvanha @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 216 Atk / 48 SpA / 244 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Protect
- Blizzard

People don't know about this dawg

Waterfall + Crunch pretty much perfect coverage, plus Blizzard to 2HKO Quilladin and other Grass types. The spread allows Carvanha to outspeed Electabuzz at +1. A great cleaner on Hazard Stack teams, just like Sharpedo in higher tiers.

Trapinch @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Atk / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Toxic
- Rock Slide

People don't know about this dawg

The threat of Trapinch is definitely more useful than Trapinch itself, making opponents play conservatively with their choiced Electabuzz, etc. Trapinch can also RK stuff like Simisear pretty well, and threaten KOs on Articuno and the like; and if they switch out you can hit the incoming Quilladin with Toxic.
 
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Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
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So yeah, Molk mentioned Sliggoo in his post on the last page so I may as well do my post about it now n_n

When I first suggested Sliggoo to some of my friends, it wasn't met with much enthusiasm. I only had the idea to use it because Molk used it in his RU RMT that showcased a bunch of middle cup Pokemon, and I remembered just how bulky it was and how surprised I was with its effectiveness (it wasn't that good in RU, but that's RU and this is FU). Since we just lost our biggest Special Attacker checks in Regice and Vigoroth, a lot of special attackers are really good right now. All three Monkeys are gods, Electabuzz is great, Victreebell is terrifying, and there aren't many things that check all of them. Well, that is, except for Sliggoo. Sligoo can tank any hit from any of these Pokemon, and threaten back with a possible OHKO using its bulky attacker set:


Sliggoo @ Eviolite
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunderbolt
- Sludge Bomb
- Muddy Water

This is a simple EV spread I came up with just because I wasn't sure about specifics. If anyone has a specific speed tier they think Sliggoo should hit, I would love to hear it because it's probably better than the one I'm using. Anyway, these moves specifically target each of the monkeys, while Sludge Bomb hits Spritzee for a 2HKO after SR (or without if you get the Poison). Sap Sipper actually makes it a surprisingly great switch-in to Quilladin, which cannot touch Sliggoo unless it's running Toxic or some obscure coverage move. The biggest issue this thing faces is that its power isn't that great when you aren't targeting one of the Pokemon it's meant to counter, and it's complete Knock Off bait (but what isn't in this tier, come on). Short of that, though, this is a great addition to any balance team. It paris really well with Spritzee, which provides wish support and handles most physical attackers. Anyway, try it out and see how you like it. Not the best mon in the world but definitely a cool and fun one! Plus it's so damn cute n_n

Here are some calcs to get you as wet as Sliggoo O_o
252 SpA Life Orb Simisear Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Sliggoo: 84-100 (24.7 - 29.4%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Sliggoo Muddy Water vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Simisear: 230-272 (79 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Simipour Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Sliggoo: 98-116 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 1.6% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Sliggoo Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Simipour: 232-274 (79.7 - 94.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Simisage Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Sliggoo: 84-100 (24.7 - 29.4%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Sliggoo Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Simisage: 232-274 (79.7 - 94.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Electabuzz Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Sliggoo: 66-78 (19.4 - 22.9%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ SpA Sliggoo Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Electabuzz: 129-153 (47.6 - 56.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Victreebel Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Sliggoo: 107-126 (31.4 - 37%) -- 76% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Sliggoo Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Victreebel: 153-180 (50.6 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Sliggoo: 109-129 (32 - 37.9%) -- 91.5% chance to 3HKO (you could get fucked by confusion tho)
252+ SpA Sliggoo Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Swanna: 460-544 (158 - 186.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Now I know Omfuga has a bulky set with Dpulse Toxic Infestation and a move I didn't get to see, but I haven't used that so I won't bother commenting on it. It did seems good when he played me with it though so hopefully he'll post about it soon.
 

Oglemi

Borf
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built a heavier offense team featuring all three Simis at the same time and came close to taking down Molk's shed team but i messed up against prinplup and late-game http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-pu-26685

there is a huge benefit to running all three monkeys at the same time and that is unpredictability, not only are they all extremely good Pokemon in their own right in this tier, but together they create one of the scariest mindgames. This is exemplified by the fact that all of them can easily go mixed, physical, or special. Had molk not played the team earlier I feel it would have been easy to make him misplay around them.

also, I honestly feel Prinplup is one of, if not the best support Pokemon in the tier. a super bulky defogger with access to SR and easily covered weaknesses and one of the best counters to Simisear in the tier make for an extremely good mon
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
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I is cool and made innovative set y/y


Simisage @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Superpower

To best honest I'm not a huge fan of Nasty Plot Sage. Although it's gotten tons better after the banning of Regice, that set has a really poor matchup against balanced or stall. There's just so many things in this tier that don't give a fuck about Giga Drain + Focus Blast anymore. After looking at Sage's plentiful movepool, I came to the conclusion that Sage was born to be a mixed attacker, so that's how I came up with this set. The purpose of this set is simple; spam Knock Off and Leaf Storm, while occasionally using Taunt to shutdown defensive mons. So in simplest terms, it's a stall breaker. Leaf Storm hits incredibly hard even with very little special attack investment, and it's Sage's best option against more offensively inclined teams. Knock Off is one of the best moves in the tier seeing as how a wide majority of defensive and even offensive Pokemon carry Eviolite. For example, Fraxure, Machoke, and Tentacool are KOed by the combination of Knock Off + Leaf Storm, Lickitung and Zweilous to Knock Off + Superpower, etc. Taunt is equally as deadly, because most defensive Pokemon in this tier are complete Taunt bait + hate getting Knocked Off. Quilladen for example gets completely shutdown by Knock Off + Taunt. Superpower is there for coverage to hit Zweilous, Scraggy, Lickitung, and Magcargo.

Pair this bitch up with a sweeper that loves defensive Pokemon being weakened, and it's a wrap.
 
simisear is too damn good, and the best fire type of the tier. Really broken and hits everything, acces to superpower for those special walls and knock off if you dont like eviolite users. Check: prinplup

I is cool and made innovative set y/y


Simisage @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Superpower

To best honest I'm not a huge fan of Nasty Plot Sage. Although it's gotten tons better after the banning of Regice, that set has a really poor matchup against balanced or stall. There's just so many things in this tier that don't give a fuck about Giga Drain + Focus Blast anymore. After looking at Sage's plentiful movepool, I came to the conclusion that Sage was born to be a mixed attacker, so that's how I came up with this set. The purpose of this set is simple; spam Knock Off and Leaf Storm, while occasionally using Taunt to shutdown defensive mons. So in simplest terms, it's a stall breaker. Leaf Storm hits incredibly hard even with very little special attack investment, and it's Sage's best option against more offensively inclined teams. Knock Off is one of the best moves in the tier seeing as how a wide majority of defensive and even offensive Pokemon carry Eviolite. For example, Fraxure, Machoke, and Tentacool are KOed by the combination of Knock Off + Leaf Storm, Lickitung and Zweilous to Knock Off + Superpower, etc. Taunt is equally as deadly, because most defensive Pokemon in this tier are complete Taunt bait + hate getting Knocked Off. Quilladen for example gets completely shutdown by Knock Off + Taunt. Superpower is there for coverage to hit Zweilous, Scraggy, Lickitung, and Magcargo.

Pair this bitch up with a sweeper that loves defensive Pokemon being weakened, and it's a wrap.
If the thing you want is a good taunt lead, i think this set is better:

If the mon you need is a taunt lead, i think this set is better:

Simisage @ Focus Sash
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Endeavor
- Taunt
- Superpower/Hidden Power Fire/ Knock Off
Endeavor hits hard a wall after 99% damage, so that wall is almost gone. This set counter is piloswine but now it´s gone so this ste can work propertly now. Hope I helped!

Hey everyone! I love this OM, it's probably my favorite so far solely due to the fact that LC pokes can kick uber mons' asses :]. I actually enjoy this meta so much that soon after its release I recorded a session of me getting to #11 on the ladder (I know that it is a small ladder, so 11 isn't really an amazing feat). If you do want to see the session and the team I used here's a link to my playlist of videos of my session. I hope you guys enjoy! :]

PS: The videos will be added as I upload them and I won't be home this weekend for a college visit so the second one should be out either late Sunday or Monday.

Youtube Link-
Link to image I made for the 350 cup on my video's thumbnail- http://i.imgur.com/GcDMcX6.png
Liking the video, but you sounded tired. Maybe grow some wings and drink some red bull? :P

Not that Elgyem is better, is that Elgyem handles Clefairy really well, so I don't know if the CM set is as good as everyone on ladder thinks it is but that Elgyem works a good check/ maybe even counter to CM Clefairy so I haven' t seen a CM Clefairy work effectively.
Fair enough, though I would point out that Elgyem still pretty much dies to Toxic. Clefairy doesn't. I guess we can safely say their CM sets are strong for the same reason, but that they have different weaknesses, which are why you would pick one over the other.

Edit:
Also, remembering what you said before when comparing Clefairy to Arceus-Fairy, Clefairy doesn't just have Heal Bell over A-F, it also has the Higher BST and access to an item (which is rly lefties), Wish and also the middle finger towards Toxic due to magic guard. I'd say Arceus's Fairy form only really has speed as an advantage over Clefairy's Wall set, which is only useful really when against Taunters.

Ok, I have tried about a dozen teams and must say that THIS team is one of the more fun ones I've used. Opinions?


Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spore
- Sticky Web
- Parting Shot
- Topsy-Turvy

Obviously a lead, but I also use it as a pivot. I can use it to tun the tables on any setup user, so I can use Parting shota s they switch a poke in. Parting shot for those unaware reduces your opponent's Atk and Sp Atk, then switches out (like a non damaging U-Turn). Spore is Obvious.


Mienfoo @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick/Drain Punch

This set is fairly self-explanatory pivot set. You use Fake-Out and Knock Off for free damage, disruption and alike while utilizing U-Turn for good momentum. The STAB of choice is constantly being changed, as HJK and Drain Punch trade Power and Longevity.


Gastly @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Dazzling Gleam
- Destiny Bond

After webs, only a scarfed Abra (which is stupid) or a flying/levitating scarfer (such as Vibrava) is going to outspeed you. This makes Gastly a brilliant poke for sweeping. Levitate meakes him reasonably safe from Hazards as well - especially against opposing Sticky Web teams.


Natu @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Heat Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Roost

I chose to have Natu on here for one reason only - Magic Bounce. However, 140/140 Sp Atk and Speed are very good for sweeping also. It's very easy to Shot/Turn out to Natu on a support poke and fire off some strong LOrb boosted attacks. Roost is to ensure you don't die to LOrb damage if you're in a long game against a support poke as you're very easy to wear down by constantly recovering if you don't flat out 2HKO.


Clefairy @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower/Thunderbolt/Cosmic Power
- Soft-Boiled

Now, I have said before that I prefer the Cosmic Power variant to the CM variant of Clefairy and I still do. However, it's too slow for this team, so I had to switch over to the CM variant, and although I am unable to boost my Phys defense, I am very pleased with the CM set of Clefairy. STAB Moonblast is obvious, but your second choice is down to you. Thunderbolt has better coverage, but Sun is quite common in 350 Cup (as we have Zard-Y, Groudon and Vulpix as excellent Drought users and only Kyogre as a viable Drizzle user - hoping we get more Drizzlers in gen 7). I myself have Been using Flamethrower as Ferroseed is a common switchin by those expecting Moonblast+Cosmic Power. I don't need to say why CP is on here, but bear in mind that Psychic + Fairy is easily walled by any Steel type.

Scraggy @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Rest

Lastly, Scraggy. I've been thinking of switching this thing off my team for something else (probably Yvetal as Gastly is a major issue), but Shed Skin + Rest is a brilliant recovery means (which is usually unneeded after a while as the most damage that ends up being done is by status, which gets healed by Shed Skin). This thing's inherent special bulk is stupendous and when you combine that with Bulk Up and STAB Drain Punch's recovery, all your opponent can use to get over this is a Fairy type attack.

Unfortunately, as mentioned, Gastly is common and so I end up taking Dazzling Gleams startlingly often. Any recommended replacements?
 
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Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
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If the thing you want is a good taunt lead, i think this set is better:

If the mon you need is a taunt lead, i think this set is better:

Simisage @ Focus Sash
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Endeavor
- Taunt
- Superpower/Hidden Power Fire/ Knock Off
Endeavor hits hard a wall after 99% damage, so that wall is almost gone. This set counter is piloswine but now it´s gone so this ste can work propertly now. Hope I helped!
The point of my set wasn't to be a Taunt lead, it's a stallbreaking set. And Piloswine is PU ?_?
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
sliggoo.jpeg
Maybe a spread of 252 HP / 20 SpA / 236 SpD could work? The main thing is that it avoids the 2HKO from +2 Focus Blast from the Simis (Simipour less so because Ice Beam but you can't avoid it even with a 252/252+ spread because simistrong). Here's some calcs

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simisage Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Sliggoo: 125-148 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
vs
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simisear Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Sliggoo: 169-199 (49.7 - 58.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO (obv str8 2HKO with rocks)
20 SpA Sliggoo Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Simipour: 166-196 (57 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
20 SpA Sliggoo Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Simipour: 166-196 (57 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
20 SpA Sliggoo Muddy Water vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Simipour: 166-196 (57 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
no sweat OHKO's but 2HKO's are nice too, right?
252 SpA Choice Specs Simipour Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Sliggoo: 146-174 (42.9 - 51.1%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
vs
252 SpA Choice Specs Simipour Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Eviolite Sliggoo: 110-130 (32.3 - 38.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Swanna Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Sliggoo: 88-107 (25.8 - 31.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (I don't even know if it carries Ice Beam but its the strongest move against it I think)
252 SpA Life Orb Electabuzz Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Sliggoo: 62-75 (18.2 - 22%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock


Bulk > Power in this case - I might be missing the point of Sliggoo a bit, but its high SpD and bulk makes it a decent answer for non-mixed Monkeys. There's probably a better spread for this though.
 

Kushalos

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OUPL Champion


  1. Articuno @ Life Orb
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Freeze-Dry
    - Hurricane
    - Roost
    - Agility

So this is a p cool Articuno set that i've been toying around with. The spread is to outspeed Scarf Electabuzz after an Agility and neutral base 80's/Jolly Fraxure without one. It's fairly easy to set up, hits very hard and is still bulky as hell. Early to midgame it can act as a wallbreaker and it becomes a terrying sweeper lategame after the opposing team is worn down.

I made scorpdestroyer build a team around it and fight me. After he managed to wear down my Electabuzz it could quite easily set up an Agility and sweep the rest of my team. Here's the replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-177909994
 

Gary

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This thread is dying :[ Time to revive it!

Here's a few Pokemon that I've been trying out recently and been finding major success with them:


Fearow @ Choice Band
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Return
- Drill Peck
- Drill Run

Most of the physical Flying-types that reside in FU are garbage (Pidgeot for example) but Fearow just so happens to be one of the luckier ones. Although it may not be as powerful as Unfezant or as fast as Pidgeot (1 point LOL) it has the best of both worlds, being both decently strong as well as hitting a marvelous Speed tier. However, the best thing about Fearow is its access to Drill Run, which allows it to actually the threaten Steel- and Rock-types that litter the tier. The purpose of this set is to bust massive holes into teams so it paves the way for a teammate to sweep, or even itself. U-turn gives it momentum against its switch-ins, wearing them down bit by bit so they may later be picked off by one of its other moves. Return is its most powerful STAB move that is easily spammable once the Steel-, Rock-, and Ghost-types are gone. Unfortunately Fearow is stuck with Drill Peck instead of Brave Bird, but it still hits hard as fuck and not much can really switch into it. Another bonus is that it doesn't have to worry about being weakened so much by recoil. Drill Run is the crux move of this set, giving Fearow its niche as one of the only Normal-types that can 2HKO Steel-types such as Lairon, Metang, and Klang, as well as Gigalith and Relicanth. Its ability to wear down common physical walls makes it a great partner to sweepers such as Fraxure and even Raticate who normally struggle to break through the aftermentioned Pokemon. Choice Scarf sets are also pretty neat as a revenge killer so I recommend you give it a try!


Whiscash @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Substitute / Stone Edge

Whiscash is a sleeper threat that no one expects to see, but when they do it usually fucks them. Whiscash has a very good offensive and defensive typing, which is only further made better by its large bulk. Although it suffers from a low Speed stat and lack of immediate power, Dragon Dance remedies this quite nicely. Waterfall hits and Earthquake are its obvious STAB moves which allows it to hit a large majority of the metagame for a lot of damage. Substitute protects it from status as well as potentially giving it a free set up opportunity on a predicted switch. Stone Edge hits Swanna for super effective damage, as well as OHKOing Articuno and giving it some sort of a weapon against weakened Grass-types. Athough this set can't really do much against stall teams because of its incapability to break through Gourgeist and Quilladen, it's amazing at plowing through offensive teams. It's really difficult to OHKO Whiscash without a Grass-type move, so it's hard to revenge kill and it gives it a lot of opportunities to set up a DD. Jolly and max Speed investment is a must, or else Whiscash misses the jump on Swoobat.


Victreebel @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Giga Drain / Leaf Storm / Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Sucker Punch / Weather Ball
- Knock Off

Victreebel is actually a really good Pokemon in this metagame. Not only is it incredible on sun teams, but it's also a really cool wallbreaker that is nearly impossible to switch into. Giga Drain is its perferred STAB move because of its ability to heal off lost health from LO recoil, but Leaf Storm is a MUCH better option if you want Victreebel to be an even better wallbreaker. Solar Beam should only be used with sun support obviously, but being able to spam a 120 base power move is worth it. Sludge Bomb hits shit like Gourgeist-S, Sawsbuck, and Spritzee as well as denting anything else that doesn't resist it. Sucker Punch is nice for picking off faster Pokemon most notably Swoobat and weakened sweepers, however if used on a sun team Weather Ball gives it a weapon against Steel-types which normally wall it, giving it nearly perfect coverage. Knock Off is the best move in the last slot to fuck with its common switch-ins such as Quilladen (yes that dick completely walls this set lol Bulletproof) and Metang. Much like that Simisage set I posted above, Leaf Storm + Knock Off is going to KO a huge amount of things, so Bel is very hard to switch into in general. Although outside of sun Victreebel may seem to have a bit of competition as a wallbreaker from Seviper, its slightly faster Speed as well as a STAB Leaf Storm AND its ability to check opposing sun teams makes it quite the terrifying Pokemon. I highly recommend to either use this thing on a sun team or with Sticky Web support, because I swear it will not let you down.
 
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Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Hi so I was away for the weekend but I'm back now and would like to talk about some of the new Pokemon I find to be especially fun/threatening right now.

These include Carvanha, Gabite, Lapras, Guts Machoke, Gourgeist Small, and Scarf Sawsbuck.

Carvanha is super fun to use with the right support. With Spikes and Stealth Rock, it finds cleaning up teams super easy. A mixed set of Waterfall Crunch Blizzard and Protect covers a lot of threats at +1 like Swoobat, Simisear, Simisage, Misdreavous, etc. It can also be used as an awesome lure for Quilladin, 2HKOing it with Blizzard as well as weakening stuff like Metang with Crunch so Clefairy, Fraxure, or Sawsbuck can sweep. In a meta that appears to lean towards hyper offense and bulky offense relying on mons with no leftovers, spikes + Carvanha is terrifying. I suggest you all try it out.

Gabite is a mon I talked about in the beginning of the tier, but sort of lost favor when Vigoroth and Regice became popular due to it being setup fodder for both. However, it now finds itself as one of the premier Offensive Stealth Rock setters in the tier. Adamant Outrage might not be as powerful as Zweilous, but it certainly packs a punch. It also checks Electabuzz, since many are choosing to run something other than HP Ice such as HP Grass for Whiscash. Even with HP Ice, Buzz can't OHKO at full thanks to the bulk Eviolite provides it, which means Electabuzz can't anti-lead against you unless it's Specs HP Ice, which is certainly easy for other Pokemon to set up on like Simisear or Klang. Finally, it has Roar to make sure nothing can set up in its face, as well as causing residual damage with Stealth Rock if you predict a switch.

Lapras is a Pokemon I was interested in trying after I saw Masterclass use it in BW during tour two weeks ago. A set of Curse Rest Rain Dance and Waterfall or Avalanche can be very threatening with the right support. Unfortunately, it doesn't get everlasting rain, which hurts its viability considerably. But that doesn't mean it's completely unusable. Its bulk is amazing, avoiding a 2HKO from Pokemon like Electabuzz, and OHKOing Scarf variants at +1 with Waterfall in the rain or Avalanche outside of it. It sort of reminds me of CM Manaphy in OU, which isn't amazing at the moment, but was a big threat around March of this year when Stall was running rampant. Definitely a Pokemon to watch out for.

Guts Machoke sounds like an inferior No Guard one, but let's face it, you're a jackass if you use Dynamic Punch. That was originally what sparked the idea for my friend Kushalos who didn't want to use that dumb-ass set. Instead, you have an amazing lure to Pokemon like Misdreavous, which LOVE to burn you, only to get OHKOed with Knock Off on the next turn. And as for STAB, you actually hit harder with Close Combat than Dynamic Punch, making it somewhat more difficult to switch into. This is only made worse if you are statused.

Gourgeist-Small is awesome, there's no two ways about it. It is super fast, outspeeding stuff like Unfeasant, Sawsbuck, Fraxure, Machoke, Whiscash, and others and Will-O-Wisping them before they even know what happened. It also has Leech Seed for added residual damage, making it a royal pain in the ass to face. I've also seen Sub Disable sets, which are also unbelievably annoying to face, since Gourgeist is usually only covered by a single move on Pokemon's movesets (see: Simisear, Machoke, Simipour, Electabuzz, etc.). Very annoying, very veffective, very fun, try it out :]

And finally, this isn't a new threat by any means, but Scarf Sawsbuck is one of my favorites to use right now. Not only does it switch in on Leech Seeds, Sleep Powders, and other Grass type moves, it can actually use Baton Pass to Pass those boosts to a teammate who can use a +1 boost (looking at you, Carvanha). In addition to that, it checks nearly every threat at +1, including Fraxure, Whiscash, Butterfree, and more. Double Edge is so ridiculously powerful, especially if you grab a +1 from a Grass type, Horn Leech is great for recovering HP if you get too low, and Baton Pass also works well for keeping momentum on offensive teams. Easily one of the best Pokemon in the tier.

And these are only a few of the Pokemon that have been recently discovered in the last week or so of FU! The tier is young, and there are so many new and interesting Pokemon to try out. Go challenge your friends or any of the council members, or just ask for a match in the OM room on PS. You might just discover the new Vigoroth or Regice. Only way to find out is by playing!
 

Kushalos

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OUPL Champion
Hi so I was away for the weekend but I'm back now and would like to talk about some of the new Pokemon I find to be especially fun/threatening right now.

These include Carvanha, Gabite, Lapras, Guts Machoke, Gourgeist Small, and Scarf Sawsbuck.

Carvanha is super fun to use with the right support. With Spikes and Stealth Rock, it finds cleaning up teams super easy. A mixed set of Waterfall Crunch Blizzard and Protect covers a lot of threats at +1 like Swoobat, Simisear, Simisage, Misdreavous, etc. It can also be used as an awesome lure for Quilladin, 2HKOing it with Blizzard as well as weakening stuff like Metang with Crunch so Clefairy, Fraxure, or Sawsbuck can sweep. In a meta that appears to lean towards hyper offense and bulky offense relying on mons with no leftovers, spikes + Carvanha is terrifying. I suggest you all try it out.

Gabite is a mon I talked about in the beginning of the tier, but sort of lost favor when Vigoroth and Regice became popular due to it being setup fodder for both. However, it now finds itself as one of the premier Offensive Stealth Rock setters in the tier. Adamant Outrage might not be as powerful as Zweilous, but it certainly packs a punch. It also checks Electabuzz, since many are choosing to run something other than HP Ice such as HP Grass for Whiscash. Even with HP Ice, Buzz can't OHKO at full thanks to the bulk Eviolite provides it, which means Electabuzz can't anti-lead against you unless it's Specs HP Ice, which is certainly easy for other Pokemon to set up on like Simisear or Klang. Finally, it has Roar to make sure nothing can set up in its face, as well as causing residual damage with Stealth Rock if you predict a switch.

Lapras is a Pokemon I was interested in trying after I saw Masterclass use it in BW during tour two weeks ago. A set of Curse Rest Rain Dance and Waterfall or Avalanche can be very threatening with the right support. Unfortunately, it doesn't get everlasting rain, which hurts its viability considerably. But that doesn't mean it's completely unusable. Its bulk is amazing, avoiding a 2HKO from Pokemon like Electabuzz, and OHKOing Scarf variants at +1 with Waterfall in the rain or Avalanche outside of it. It sort of reminds me of CM Manaphy in OU, which isn't amazing at the moment, but was a big threat around March of this year when Stall was running rampant. Definitely a Pokemon to watch out for.

Guts Machoke sounds like an inferior No Guard one, but let's face it, you're a jackass if you use Dynamic Punch. That was originally what sparked the idea for my friend Kushalos who didn't want to use that dumb-ass set. Instead, you have an amazing lure to Pokemon like Misdreavous, which LOVE to burn you, only to get OHKOed with Knock Off on the next turn. And as for STAB, you actually hit harder with Close Combat than Dynamic Punch, making it somewhat more difficult to switch into. This is only made worse if you are statused.

Gourgeist-Small is awesome, there's no two ways about it. It is super fast, outspeeding stuff like Unfeasant, Sawsbuck, Fraxure, Machoke, Whiscash, and others and Will-O-Wisping them before they even know what happened. It also has Leech Seed for added residual damage, making it a royal pain in the ass to face. I've also seen Sub Disable sets, which are also unbelievably annoying to face, since Gourgeist is usually only covered by a single move on Pokemon's movesets (see: Simisear, Machoke, Simipour, Electabuzz, etc.). Very annoying, very veffective, very fun, try it out :]

And finally, this isn't a new threat by any means, but Scarf Sawsbuck is one of my favorites to use right now. Not only does it switch in on Leech Seeds, Sleep Powders, and other Grass type moves, it can actually use Baton Pass to Pass those boosts to a teammate who can use a +1 boost (looking at you, Carvanha). In addition to that, it checks nearly every threat at +1, including Fraxure, Whiscash, Butterfree, and more. Double Edge is so ridiculously powerful, especially if you grab a +1 from a Grass type, Horn Leech is great for recovering HP if you get too low, and Baton Pass also works well for keeping momentum on offensive teams. Easily one of the best Pokemon in the tier.

And these are only a few of the Pokemon that have been recently discovered in the last week or so of FU! The tier is young, and there are so many new and interesting Pokemon to try out. Go challenge your friends or any of the council members, or just ask for a match in the OM room on PS. You might just discover the new Vigoroth or Regice. Only way to find out is by playing!
git innovated,,, I also gave you the idea for gourgeist ;[
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Since a lot of people probably have no idea how to get started in this meta, here's a cool team I made a few days ago that's been pretty successful, and has a good matchup against a large portion of the meta:


Quilladin @ Eviolite
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Seed Bomb
- Synthesis

Carvanha @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Protect
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Blizzard

Simisear @ Charcoal
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Taunt
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot

Gabite @ Eviolite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Roar

Unfezant (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- U-turn
- Fly
- Steel Wing

Electabuzz @ Eviolite
Ability: Static
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Toxic


The purpose of this team should seem obvious but I can go into more detail. The goal is to spam hazards and weaken down the opposing team with wallbreakers so Carvanha can clean up. Quilladen is one of the best defensive spikers in FU because of its incredible physical bulk, as well as its access to Taunt and ability to set up on a lot of physical attackers. Taunt is important because it prevents stall teams from crippling it while also preventing opposing offensive Pokemon from setting up on it. Although I thought about maybe going the more offensive route with Roselia, I realized how weak this team was to DD Whiscash and Scarf Krokorok so I decided on Quilladen. Carvanha is the star of the team, giving me an easy win condition against offensive teams once everything is weakened down to a point where Crunch or Waterfall will kill everything. Blizzard 2HKOes Quilladen on the switch so it's a really cool move to have for the early game, but you can also choose to run Destiny Bond to pick off shit it can't KO or Zen Headbutt for Roselia/Arbok.

Next I wanted something that could heavily pressure Steel-types as well as some kind of stallbreaker. Nasty Plot Simisear was the perfect candidate for that, because very little wants to switch into a +2 Fire Blast. Also I added Taunt so it had a better match up against balanced, which normally carries shit like Spritzee, Clefairy, Misdreavus, Prinplup, etc. Simisear is basically a free switch into Prinplup, so Taunt also prevents it from getting off a Defog and removing all my hazards, forcing it to Scald while keeping my momentum up. Gabite was added to the team as an obligatory Electabuzz and Simisear check, as well as a Stealth Rock setter and a check Zweilous. I've always wanted to try out Unfezant because it just seemed so strong. It fits well on this team because most of its counters are easily dealt with by the combination of Simisear and Carvanha, while Unfezant helps weaken down the opposition so Carvanha can sweep. With a couple layers of Spikes and Stealth Rock up, basically nothing can switch into a Return. Fly may seem weird and unreliable, but it nukes Misdreavus as well as Gourgeist and Quilladen, so it's not that bad of a move. Steel Wing 2HKOes Gigalith, which is really cool.

Last but not least we have Electabuzz, which rounds off the team's offensive synergy by giving me a better check to Swanna, Articuno, Simipour, and Frogadier. Eviolite is a must because it gives the team a somewhat reliable hard check to Articuno, which is nice because there are many Pokemon that Cuno can freely come in on. HP Grass is merely so I don't allow Whiscash or Krok a free switch-in, but you can also use HP Ice if you want to lure Gabite. Toxic is nice for crippling its common switch-ins, but again the last moveslot can be tweaked accordingly to your personal preference.
 

Don Honchkrorleone

Happy Qwilfish the nightmare
is a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
Since a lot of people probably have no idea how to get started in this meta, here's a cool team I made a few days ago that's been pretty successful, and has a good matchup against a large portion of the meta:


Quilladin @ Eviolite
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Seed Bomb
- Synthesis

Carvanha @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Protect
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Blizzard

Simisear @ Charcoal
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Taunt
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot

Gabite @ Eviolite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Roar

Unfezant (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- U-turn
- Fly
- Steel Wing

Electabuzz @ Eviolite
Ability: Static
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Toxic
Ahem.

I also want to share some underrated sets I've been testing on FU and try to gather more attention to the tier.


Girafarig @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Substitute / Baton Pass
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock / Shadow Ball

The good thing about Girafarig is that no one knows about its existence at all LOL. I played a bit with CM and, from my point of view, there are several instances you'd use it over broken Swoobat, namely the two nice immunities (Ghost and Grass) that allows Girafarig to set up in Gourgeist, Misdreavus and Quilladin. Another good thing is being able to pseudo-Smash Pass with Sap Sipper and CM. Hyper Voice is Girafarig's best move, hitting through Substitute users. Psyshock is a nice STAB against special walls like Roselia and Articuno, or you can use Shadow Ball for Steel-types, particularly Metang. And to those who doubt that Girafarig work, here is the proof (the opponent wasn't prepared for it, but who is LOL)



Magcargo @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Lava Plume
- Rock Tomb
- Recover
- Stealth Rock / Yawn / Will-o-Wisp / Hidden Power Grass / Memento / Protect / Earth Power

Despite having an ass defensive typing, Magcargo is not like the epynomous smogoner. It's actually anti-metagamish. It checks all birds except Fearow (unless it's choice-locked on something else not Drill Run), all Grasses except mixed Simisage (whose SP can be stalled out), JK Sawsbuck and SD Meganium, it completely walls Sun without FB Simisear (which HP Rock is infinitely better, especially on sun) and the aforementioned stag, stops Normal/Bird spam and it's one of the only three Fire-types that can pass through Lampent (Magcargo, lol Knock Off Simisear and Lampent itself). Lava Plume is dangerous and MAgcargo is the only viable user of it in FU with the possible exception of Magmar. Rock Tomb is better than Ancient Power / HP Rock even with the garbage base Attack, as the speed lowering is good in case of Magcargo fainting/switching. Recover is Recover. SR is on the last slot because it's a nice SR setter, especially for Stall and defensive-oriented teams. If not using SR on Magcargo, the lava slug also has a plethora of defensive options like Yawn, WoW and etc. I like SDef because of Articuno mainly but a physically defensive oriented spread can also be used.



Unfezant @ Choice Band
Ability: RIVALRY Super Luck
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- U-turn
- Fly
- Night Slash / Steel Wing

Unfezant is interesting. It's movepool is crap but it's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO strong. Gary2346 already covered about it a bit in his post above, and I feel I should reiterate it. a STAB Return coming from base 115+ Banded destroy everything slower than it (and some switch-ins). Fly is its best Flying-type STAB, and the two-turn doesn't matter at all (unless against Magcargo or Protect Gourgeist). U-Turn for scouting. Night Slash vs Steel Wing is if hitting Metang and Ghosts reliably is more important than 2HKOing Gigalith. Also, as tempting it may seem, never use Rivalry, as it's too situational.



Tropius @ Lansat Berry / Yache Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Natural Gift
- Leaf Blade
- Earthquake

Thanks to Harvest, Tropius has a strong (although not very reliable) physical move for every type available, including its own Flying-type. Lansat Berry gives a 100 BP STAB Flying move, and with DD, Tropius can become quite a formidable sweeper. Leaf Blade and EQ are its other moves, the former being a reliable STAB which goes quite well with Lansat and the latter being coverage against Steel-, Fire- and Poison-types. Yache Berry can also be used, not only for a 80 BP Nstural Gift, but it also allows Tropius to set up on Simisear and HP Ice Electabuzz. Jolly is better since it at least speed ties with the monkeys after a DD.
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I severely doubt the viability of Girafarig over something like Swoobat or Meowstic-F, but you keep doing what you're doing Don.

Everything else there seems really cool, especially Tropius, which seems very effective as a cleaner o.o I'll have to try that on a team at some point.

EDIT: I take it back, I looked at Tropius's stats and remembered why I never even considered using it before...
 
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scorpdestroyer

it's a skorupi egg
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Lansat Berry might not be the best choice for a Flying STAB because it activates in a pinch. Lum Berry might be a better alternative; it provides a base 80 power Flying STAB, and makes Tropius basically immune to status.
 
Guts Machoke sounds like an inferior No Guard one, but let's face it, you're a jackass if you use Dynamic Punch. That was originally what sparked the idea for my friend Kushalos who didn't want to use that dumb-ass set. Instead, you have an amazing lure to Pokemon like Misdreavous, which LOVE to burn you, only to get OHKOed with Knock Off on the next turn. And as for STAB, you actually hit harder with Close Combat than Dynamic Punch, making it somewhat more difficult to switch into. This is only made worse if you are statused.
So I don't actually play this tier (I just read the thread and think really hard about making a team) but I know how much better guts machamp is than no guard machamp in uu so I'd definitely suggest you try it out here. Tbh whenever I read machoke I just sorta assumed you were running guts because it's a great status-absorber and is honestly way better at actually breaking defensive walls then relying on a weaker stab move + confuse hax.
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
So I don't actually play this tier (I just read the thread and think really hard about making a team) but I know how much better guts machamp is than no guard machamp in uu so I'd definitely suggest you try it out here. Tbh whenever I read machoke I just sorta assumed you were running guts because it's a great status-absorber and is honestly way better at actually breaking defensive walls then relying on a weaker stab move + confuse hax.
Yeah at the current state of the meta where status is really important in dealing with offensive teams, Guts Machoke is easily its superior set. Its ability to switch into the likes of Gourgeist-S and Misdreavus without a care in the world and spamming Knock Off/Close Combat is incredible, and because of this it's very hard for defensive and balanced teams to check it.

Also might as well make this post worth it by once again talking about more shit that I've found to be really cool and underrated.


Persian @ Silk Scarf / Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- U-turn / Taunt
- Knock Off

On paper Persian kind of looked like a faster, much less powerful Raticate. However, upon further inspection and testing I noticed that it definitely fulfills different niches. First off, it's fast as fuck, I think it's only second to Ninjask in FU. This means that with the combination of a powerful STAB Return and a Technician boosted Fake Out, it can be a menace to offensive teams as well as a formidable revenge killer. Its access to Taunt also lets it function as a stall breaker, and combined with Knock Off it can shutdown and weaken defensive teams, making it easier for a teammate to sweep. If you don't need to use Persian as stallbreaker, than it can easily just run U-turn to gain easy momentum; Fake Out + U-turn can wrack up a shit ton of chip damage, if not KO things. I prefer to use a Silk Scarf seeing as Persian will primarily be using Fake Out and Return as a source of damage output while the other moves are more for support, however Life Orb is a bit more powerful and adds extra power to its Knock Offs and U-turns, but it just wears it down a lot quicker. Persian can also run a surpsingly effective Nasty Plot set as a cleaner, but it's much better at stallbreaking.


Ninjask @ Choice Band
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Aerial Ace
- X-Scissor
- Night Slash

Speaking of Ninjask, this speedy fucker is finally in a tier where it can shine as more of an individual than just a Baton Passing whore. Ninjask is so damn fast that it can not only safely run an Adamant nature, but also it doesn't even need to run Speed Boost, seeing as how it already outruns the entire unboosted metagame. Infiltrator is easily the superior ability, because it allows Ninjask to revenge kill Pokemon behind Substitutes, such as Sub Simipour, Gourgeist, and Arbok. CB U-turn hits hard as fuck, and it's easily spammable early game in order to scout the opponent and wrack up a lot of residual damage so it could potentially clean up late game. And that's the best thing about CB Ninjask, is that not only does it hit hard, but it's a stellar revenge killer AND cleaner. All of the moves are pretty self explanatory maybe except for Night Slash, which is merely meant to 2HKO Misdreavus and deals heavy damage to Metang. There's not much else that it can run anyway, so it's mostly a filler.
 
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hey, so the october PU usage stats are out. i'm not sure if you guys are going to do a tier shift, but it looks like there are quite a few changes (mostly mons that are good in PU rising and ones that are bad falling, which is cool)

edit: here's a list of would be changes:

rises:
kricketune
victreebel
roselia
misdreavus
sawsbuck
drifblim
arbok
stunfisk
relicanth

drops:
slaking
dusclops
leavanny
kingler
floatzel
aurorus
gogoat
heatmor

edit 2: the list below isn't entirely accurate, use this one @_@
 
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Okay, from the looks of it:

We get:
Floatzel
Leavanny
Gogoat
Heatmor
Dusclops
Kingler
Slaking

We lose:
Misdreavus
Roselia
Victreebel
Togetic
Stunfisk
Arbok
Drifblim
Sawsbuck
Kricketune
Relicanth

I believe that's it. (I may of forgot some or got some wrong, but whatever)

Most excited for Floatzel and Heatmor personally.
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Well rip most of the FU tier threats. We didn't get too much but Aurorus and Gogoat are going to be fun. Definitely wary of Slaking as Banded Giga Impact or Shadow Claw literally 2HKOs everything. I'm going to miss Arbok and Sawsbuck immensely :[
 
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