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Discussion in 'Ubers' started by Melee Mewtwo, Sep 11, 2013.
now scarfzekrom with sleep talk handles Twave Darkrai (this is a thing, right) even better.
The new typing sucks fairy really...don't like how it completely resists drag and is weak to only two things. I think they hav killed gen 6 a gen I was looking forward too aswell :( Also that electrics cannot be para which is so broke >..< there gonna go nuts with t wave switch ins doing jack to them all T.T
So Ground types being able to switch safely into Thunder Wave all along was perfectly balanced, but now that Electric types can do it the metagame is ruined?
And this is while Groudon alone sees more usage than all the viable Electric types in the metagame put together.
fair enough but still I think fairy from the weakness and resistances alone is broke
But we still don't know how good Fairy-type Pokemon are. The only one we can know will be good is Xerneas, but even then, we don't know base stats; therefore, we don't know the full extent of how the Fairy-type will function in this new metagame. Don't be quick to judge with these unknowns.
One legend won't make or break the fairy types lool azumaril will be water fairy so completely resists Hera and all dragons. That another example how broke it actually is. Plus they can just come on outrages and take no damage @ all >:(
We don't even know if Azumarill will get a good Fairy STAB yet, though.
So Ghost types can come into Thrash and Close Combat and take no damage, does this makes them broken? ROTFL. And Azumarill probably is still pathetic in Ubers, thought a beast in OU. I can't really see your point, as unlike Dragon, fairy is resisted by Fire and Poison, other than Steel. Guess who is a Fire type? Isn't maybe that top tier Pokémon named Ho-oh?
Your argument is invalid sir. He's talking about the uber metagame, where being immune to Dragon is godlike. Close Combat is almost never seen, Terrakion being the only one (or almost, too lazy to think). Oh and yeah, Ghost is broken in Uber.
You're talking about the bird who take something like 50% on Stealth Rock ? You seriously think this nigger can wall Fairyceus ? Oh well, let's see if you can say the same thing when XY are available.
Remember that the bird has regenerator, Recover or Roost and somethingh like 154 base SpDef. No mention that he isn't the only noteworthy fairy resistor already aviable. There are also HEATRAN(double resisting it), Ferrothorn, Forretress, Tentacruel, Arceus forms, Genesect(can't easly switch in whit that awful defenses, but he's arguably the best revengekiller for the fairies) and more...
Outrage is not a great move in the current metagame as it is. Being locked into a move as well as unable to switch is a horrible downside, as it removes one of the quintessential aspects of success in the metagame, namely strategic switching, as well as meaning that Pokemon using Outrage are easy set up fodder for Steel types.
This is why the only Outrage user (rare Dialga/Palkia sets aside) in the top 20 is Rayquaza (whose most effective sets, the Mixed and the Swords Dance set, both do not rely significantly or at all on Outrage).
A well-supported Ho-Oh is the single most devastating threat in the metagame. An additional resistance and no foreseeable new disadvantages is just one more reason to use it, as if it wasn't already immensely capable.
A well supported anything can be the biggest threat in the metagame. We can't really tell whether Ho-oh is going to counter Arceus-Fairy or not, because if it ends up being physically absed (assuming it gets a good physical fairy-type move), then it will most likely carry Earthquake and Stone Edge as coverage moves.
Nice strawman argument. Ho-Oh needs anti-hazard support (which is admittedly not particularly easy to manage, but benefits the entire team immensely) and sun support (which also is not a problem, as Groudon has good synergy with Ho-Oh and is generally an excellent and versatile Pokemon, thus easy to fit alongside it). With said support Ho-Oh simultaneously walls a large proportion and threatens the vast majority of the metagame, while also boasting one of the best abilities in the game which makes it impossible to simply wear down with attacks. Nothing else in the metagame can boast as much, and said support is not on the level of paralyzing the whole opposing team and setting up Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes. Not to mention that it is not particularly dependant on sun, but merely prefers it.
Yes, if Arceus-Fairy gets a usable physical STAB, Ho-Oh will not be able to wall Swords Dance sets, but such sets will instead struggle with Groudon and Steel types that Earthquake does not hit super effectively.
Judging from the little we do know about Fairy moves it seems highly unlikely that it'll get strong attacks. It seems like it's a supportive typing and it'll probably not end up with anything above 80 BP much like Ghost and Dark.
Pure speculation aside, of course the metagame is going to change a lot. This is a good thing, it means we are playing a new generation and not just an update on the last one. Personally, I like the direction this metagame will probably take, stall needed to be thrown another bone after BW2 brought so much and the Fairy typing is perfect for this. I really like having a real switch-in to Dragon Tail as well as a deterrent to mons spamming Choice Specs Dracos etc.
Judging from what we know about Arceus, the Fairy forme will indeed get a strong STAB attack called Judgment which will be scary af.
And judging by Arceus current movepool, I would be pretty safe to say that Stone Edge is indeed a viable option on Arceus-Fairy, just like it is on support Fightceus.
Yeah, Arceus being the exception. Even then, it'll have to run some weird CM 3 attacks set to avoid being Ho-Oh/Steel type fodder. It'll probably end up tossing CM for Recover and function like Fightceus as a support set which isn't too scary.
Why not just go for an offensive CM + 3 attacks set? Judgment + Thunder + Focus Blast gives flawless neutral coverage and Ho-Oh is 2HKOed after a CM.
Meh, just about every Arceus could run something like that. It ends up a lot harder to setup with Recover and less useful in general when you can't rely on it to check threats multiple times. (and then it'll still have trouble with blanket walls)
Eq, judgment, stone edge. You're welcome.
Even if Fairy doesn't get great moves I'd be surprised if Xerneas didn't get some kind of good signature attack.
I really like the idea of Fairy for the Ubers meta. Stomping dragons, resisting U-Turn, Dark and Fighting all sound like interesting balancing. Choiced Dragons and Genesect in general will either have to play much more carefully or use something else. Fairy STAB in addition looks really solid as Poisons and Fires are pretty rare (but you never know if they'll add something!)
One thing that hasn't really been in the minds of a lot of people that should is that Ghost (and Dark!) is no longer resisted by Steel. If you think about it, Ghost is now taking the throne of best offensive STAB from Dragon. I'm hoping Yveltal will be a good balancing Pokemon to keep Arceus-Ghost in check.
This is just rambling at this point, but what if all the remaining Dream World abilities release with XY? Shadow Tag Chandelure will be absolutely disgusting.
I'm truly fascinated by what Xerneas and Yveltal could be like.
First with Yveltal, you have a Dark-Flying Pokemon that is said to represent death itself. With Dark Aura boosting its STAB options, I picture this thing is going to be one heck of an offensive Pokemon. Now by looking at the Flying type as a whole, the highest stat tends to be Speed, with Attack being a close second (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Flying_(type) ) followed closely by attack. This makes me believe that Yveltal will be a fast physical, offensive threat. It's signature move is "Oblivion Wing" may look like a special attack in the trailers, but on the surface, it sounds like a highly powerful physical STAB attack. This Pokemon's effect on the metagame could be that it has an easier time beating Ghostceus, Giratina, Lugia, Mewtwo (non-mega), Latios, Latias, Grassceus (remember Yveltal's other stab), and Shaymin-S. Darkrai could be beaten down by it too, assuming that it can be out-sped before being putting Yveltal to sleep.
Then, with Xerneas you a have a Pokemon which is said to represent life. Being generally seen in a more docile light (at least in the XY trailers) , I presume that Xerneas will be a defensively oriented Fairy that can serve as a check to many of the tiers Dragons. Alas, we know little about Fairy types as a whole, but I still can speculate that as a defensive Pokemon, Xerneas will be able to deal with Fightceus, Darkceus, and Choice locked Dragons such as Zekrom, Palkia, and Kyurem-W. Due to seeming defensive, Xerneas could be a great addition for Ubers Stall.
Again, this is all speculation, but I feel the cover legendaries of the 6th generation are really going to shake things up! :)
If yveltal is base 90 speed like other cover legends and has anything short of spectacular defenses then it'll have a rough time with 100% accurate thunders we all know and love. Also being sr weak hurts quite abit.
Based on the promotional video that first introduced Moon Blast, Sylveon was able to OHKO a full-health Salamence with the attack. We know with 95% certainty that Sylveon has base 110 attack. Assuming 31 SpA IV for Sylveon and a 0 IV in both SpD and HP for Salamence, Moon Blast has to have 90 power at the minimum to guarantee the OHKO.
Yeah they could have given Sylveon EVs and other evidence points to the contrary and the name "Moon Blast" doesn't sound like it would be particularly weak...
You're complaining now. You'll get used to it though.