Project XY NU Research Week #3

[Minus]

Credit to Mazz for the OP
Approved by Raseri

Welcome, NUers and all those looking for an excellent comp. 'mons experience! A fresh tier means a fresh installment of Research Group!

Keep the following things in mind during every Research Group:

• Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, movepool, and typing and think something up!
• Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
• Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
• Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and / or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.

A few things to clarify:

• Early period means the first three days of the research week, so let's keep the theorymoning to a minimum after. The late period refers to the last four days of the research week, where raw evidence and discussion should become the basis of the thread.
• Sign-Ups close Wednesday nights (about three and a half days of sign-ups), so be sure to sign up before they close!
• Errrr....I don't have any prizes (yet), but obviously, your name with be forever in this thread's Hall of Fame =]
• You must post a ladder ranking in order to win the above prize(s).

This Week's Research Pokemon:

Hariyama | Scyther | Flareon | Leafeon​

How useful are these Pokemon in XY NU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #neverused as well!

The Research Group Challenge:

In order to participate you must do the following:

• Post here with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
• Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
• Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
• Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us!

The first stage of the challenge will be very relaxed so theorymon will be allowed as long as its backed up by good reasoning. During the later stage, discussion will be expected to be backed up by hard evidence, such as teams, actual sets, and logs. The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown NU ladder on the alt they registered at the time the challenge ends.

Hall of Fame

Minus for being a great host =]]]
Research Week #1 Winner: Magis4Life
Research Week #2 Winner: TBD

 

[Minus]

In case anyone was wondering, I stopped this for NUPL because I didn't want it to take the spotlight/have little activity/etc.

 

[Ununhexium]

entering as imabananakekeke

Using Scyther

 

[marilli]

Leafeon's a cool mon and does well against popular stuff. As in, it beats Feraligatr so it must be amazing!!!!

Imma use him but no guaranteeing that I'll ladder lots.

 

[President Shinra]

I'll do dis as Executive Shinra, it has UU games on it but no NU so it should be fine.

Using Hariyama

 

[Lord Alphose]

in as Funky Dance Boy.

Using e'erythang

 

[zf]

in as Hax God ZF

Using Scyther.

 

[Lavern]

in as Who's Timtimitim?

Using the best Scyther iZocker o]

 

[Shuckleking87]

in as xynuresearchweek3
scyther is cool, lots of people using it so probs go with an -eon

 

[Ranger Mike]

In as Seismitympole for hariyama and leafeon

 

[Chronic Smash]

In As EuropeanSpaceJesus with Hariyama

EDIT: And scyther

 

[Chronic Smash]

Reporting my record so far

So far I got that decent record, 1 loss due to stupid hax. I'll do a quick overview of the two pokes I'm using:

Hariyama @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 248 SDef / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch / Earthquake
- Knock Off

Hariyama is by far the best Assault Vest user in the NU tier. Sporting really high HP, solid Attack and relatively decent bulk, it can be one of the best special tanks in the game. This particular set runs Max Atk and close to max Special Defense because we want to tank as many Special Hits as possible, and with 248 SDef EVs, Hariyama gets 327 Special Defense, which is 1 point lower than the Special Defense of a fully invested base 100, and since it has really high HP, you don't really need to invest in it. Thick Fat is the ability of choice, as it allows you to switch into Fire-types, such as Typhlosion, Magmortar and Pyroar, and Ice-types such as Cryogonal and Avalugg (there aren't that many relevant Ice types I can think of). You can also run Guts to make it a status absorber and not get completely crippled by Will-O-Wisp, but that's better suited to things like Gurdurr. As for the moveset, we run STAB in the form of Close Combat as it's the most powerful Fighting-type move Hariyama gets (as much as I dislike having moves that lower your defenses, there's no other choice, really), Knock Off to hit Ghost-types like Rotom, and to cripple pokemon that rely on their Eviolite to be effective, such as Ferroseed, Gurdurr, and Togetic, Bullet Punch serves as a priority option to pick off weakened foes, I believe this 2HKOes Cryogonal after rocks, and our last coverage move, you can run Ice Punch to hit stuff like Vileplume and Altaria for Super-effective damage, or you can run Earthquake to hit stuff like Dragalge a little bit harder, at the cost of being walled by Vileplume inmensely. All in all, Hariyama is a very solid mon, if you want a Special Tank that can dish out heavy damage, Hariyama is your guy.

Scyther @ Eviolite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aerial Ace
- Quick Attack
- Knock Off / Bug Bite / Roost

Scyther is a very reliable win condition in NU. If you get all of the Steel-types taken out and set up an SD, it can sweep an entire team, no questions asked. Scyther pairs with Hariyama very well as Hariyama can lure the Fire-types, the Rock-types and the Steel-types that threaten Scyther, and Hariyama takes them out of the ecuation. We wanna run Eviolite as it's item, because Scyther with Eviolite hits 294 in it's Defense and Special Defense, which is very respectable. We wanna run Jolly Nature as the nature of Choice, because base 105 Spe is nothing to scoof at, so you wanna maximize it, to make it as fast and as powerful as possible. We run Swords Dance to raise our very solid Attack stat to godly levels, at +2, it will OHKO anything with Aerial Ace that doesn't resist it, unless your facing a Torkoal but I'm pretty sure Aerial Ace 2HKOes Physically Defensive Torkoal after Stealth Rock. We run Quck Attack to revenge kill pokes that are low on health and Quick Attack with Technician is actually pretty strong, and for the last movem you can run Knock Off to get rid of stuff like Leftovers from the opponent and Eviolites, to make pokemon that rely on it useless, you can also run Bug Bite get another form of STAB, but in my opinion, Aerial Ace hits the things that Bug Bite hits perfectly, or if you want recovery, you can run Roost, and restore 50% of your HP and removing your Flying subtype, but the last slot is up to personal preference. Just warning you, if you wanna use this little monster, be sure that Stealth Rock is not on your side of the field, losing half health on switch-in is no good, no bueno, and be sure to have something that can take out Steel-types, otherwise Scyther will be walled and possibly killed by it's biggest counter: Steelix. Running Rapid Spin is pretty much mandatory if you wanna use this guy, if you do, Scyther will prove to be a top-tier threat, and I think Scyther is really underrated and I think it needs more love, as it is a very potent sweeper once it sets up. And it's very fun to use. I'll leave a small replay to show the power of Scyther:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-158266531 Scyther cleans up.

 

[Annoyer]

in as "flareon is god"; guess what i'm using...

 

[Brawlfest]

Using Scyther on BurdFest

 

[ryan]

I've already used Flareon and Hariyama a ton, and Leafeon is good but more popular than Scyther. So I built a team with Scyther the other night, and it's actually really good. I tried to build around Scyther ages ago, but I had a lot of trouble with it because it's pretty hard to fit a spinner and Stealth Rock setter that doesn't clash terribly with it. But I ended up figuring out a decent build that takes advantage of Scyther pretty well. The set I'm running is:

Scyther @ Eviolite | Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe | Jolly Nature
Swords Dance / Aerial Ace / Substitute / Roost

Substitute is the only odd part about this set, but I like it quite a bit. Scyther is really great at forcing switches and luring in status moves, and with Substitute, it can take full advantage of this. Quick Attack and Knock Off are both fine options here, but my team doesn't really need the priority and already has three Knock Off users. Besides, Flying is an incredible mono-attacking type, and extra coverage really isn't needed.

I'm not sure exactly what types of things I'm supposed to talk about in this thread, but I'll say that Scyther is really solid. It's a good offensive check to the multiple Fighting-types in the tier, and it can take advantage of a lot of the common bulky Grass-types that people use to check Feraligatr. Scyther requires some very specific support, and it's definitely not something you can just slap onto any team. But if you build around it and focus on its strengths and weaknesses, it doesn't disappoint. Also, Tech Aerial Ace hits really hard. I was really surprised by how powerful it was without a boost, and that high initial power helps keep it from being dead weight in the early/mid-game.

 

[marilli]

I picked Leafeon, and the set I'm using is as follows:

Leafeon @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- X-Scissor

Standard SD Leafeon. EVs are staying 252/252 because I’m lazy. Item choice is staying as Life Orb for a good reason: it allows Leafeon to OHKO Feraligatr after SR. Imagine this: you catch Feraligatr on the SD and get a free switch in, which should be a good play, but the +2 Feraligatr after SR tanks your Leaf Blade and Ice Punches you for the OHKO. This really sucks. Feraligatr vs Leafeon is a matchup you should be seeing a lot, as you get a free switch on SD / Aqua Jet / Waterfall.

Only 'iffy' move here is the X-Scissor. Knock Off does make Leafeon's options a lot better, but the last slot is still about which shitty move is less terrible. Life Orb X-Scissor OHKOs Lilligant, thereby letting you pose a real problem against the Gatr / Lilli / Mesprit core. You can also Knock Off Tangela, and without Eviolite, you can guarantee the OHKO after even the slightest prior damage with a +2 X-Scissor. I really don’t like doing calculations but I did and trust me on this. the pros and cons of her last moveslot are as follows. Double-Edge is best option against Poison-types and gives you a slight chance to OHKO Magmortar after SR without a boost. It also wastes Leafeon's bulk and makes me question my decision for not playing Sawsbuck. Return hits Poison-types moderately hard, but not hard enough. You'll get OHKOed by Sludge Bomb, and will not get past them without serious help because +2 Return only does 50~60%. By virtue of having X-Scissor you immediately win against opposing Grass-types like Tangela, Lilligant, and Sawsbuck, which makes it the superior coverage move in my opinion.

As for non-offensive moves on the last slot, I've used Baton Pass which is a lot more standard, and works about as well as you'd expect. I'm personally not a big fan of Synthesis. Probably Synthesis works better with a better, bulky EV spread which I'm too lazy to come up with because 252/252 has served me well so far.

 

[soulgazer]

I've already used Flareon and Hariyama a ton, and Leafeon is good but more popular than Scyther. So I built a team with Scyther the other night, and it's actually really good. I tried to build around Scyther ages ago, but I had a lot of trouble with it because it's pretty hard to fit a spinner and Stealth Rock setter that doesn't clash terribly with it. But I ended up figuring out a decent build that takes advantage of Scyther pretty well. The set I'm running is:

Scyther @ Eviolite | Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe | Jolly Nature
Swords Dance / Aerial Ace / Substitute / Roost

Substitute is the only odd part about this set, but I like it quite a bit. Scyther is really great at forcing switches and luring in status moves, and with Substitute, it can take full advantage of this. Quick Attack and Knock Off are both fine options here, but my team doesn't really need the priority and already has three Knock Off users. Besides, Flying is an incredible mono-attacking type, and extra coverage really isn't needed.

Did you consider using some bulk on that Scyther set? If I remember correctly, with some bulk Scyther's Substitute can take hits from walls such as Seismitoad's 0 SpA Scald or Audino's Double-Edge, which could be really neat.

Anyway I am kinda surprised that Hariyama was in this Research Week as I always saw it as one of the standard NU Pokemon. It is the best Assault Vest user in NU thanks to its huge HP stats and offensive movepool, and possibly one of the best offensive counter to Fire- and Ice-types. Close Combat + Knock offers amazing coverage in two moves, letting Hariyama run pretty much all it wants in its last two slot: Bullet Punch + Fake Out, Bullet Punch + Earthquake / Ice Punch, etc. So yeah Hariyama is a great Pokemon.

Scyther is really cool too; nice Speed tier, has amazing bulk with Eviolite, and can use both Swords Dance and Choice Band effectively. It also pairs well with the NU Rapid Spinners: Cryogonal and Sandslash, which is honestly quite cool. One of the best Pokemon to have if you ever want to build a VoltTurn squad (Choice Band Scyther + Choice Specs Lanturn is amazing).