Furthermore, I'd like to point out that the principle denying Donphan of OU viability cannot be completely applied to Mantine. Donphan is a physically defensive Ground-type that's also capable spinning--this much has been established for two generations--but let's break this down a bit. When a player is searching for a bulky Ground, they're in need of a Pokemon that can check a specific group of Pokemon. Those Pokemon are usually very powerful threats whose main offensive options have few drawbacks; this means that Donphan absolutely needs the ability to heal, or else it won't be able to keep up with the offensive pressure being placed on it. Additionally, aggression is usually the most effective means of downing said threats, as they either have a means of getting around Toxic, or can become very dangerous if provided with weak setup fodder. This creates a bit of controversy with Donphan's "best" EV spread, leaving it with very little room for defensive versatility. So what do you end up with? A very straightforward Pokemon that can't even consistently satisfy its single purpose. Because of that fact, Donphan will always pale in comparison to its competition.
I honestly don't get this whole paragraph. You mention two things that Donphan can do and then assume that since it isn't great at one of its jobs (being a bulky Ground-type), it therefore isn't worth the teamslot. By that logic, couldn't I just say that since Mantine isn't a great special wall, it's bad too? Fact is, Donphan doesn't just have a single purpose. It has multiple purposes just like Mantine does, it's just that it's not especially good at any of them and therefore ends up being a mediocre Pokemon overall.
Mantine doesn't suffer from most of those problems, as the combination of Water Absorb, respectable defensive capabilities, Haze, and Scald (don't bring up Scald Gyarados, thx) save it from being completely overshadowed by the option of simply running two Pokemon that achieve the same goal.
Not only is Donphan a physically bulky Ground-type, but it also has Rapid Spin, Knock Off, Ice Shard for picking off weakened Garchomps or Dragonites or something, and even Stealth Rock to further support its team. Is it great at any of those particular jobs? Not really, no. It has no reliable recovery to really wall things over the course of the game, it's Ice Shard is really weak, and it often wants five moveslots so that it can spin, use priority, support with Stealth Rock, hit things with Earthquake, get coverage against Talonflame and friends with Stone Edge, and Knock Off opponents all at the same time. It has a lot of perks that in theory should add up to be something good, but it's so mediocre at all of its jobs that it's actually better in practice to just run multiple Pokemon to perform those jobs and more with greater efficiency.
This is the problem you have with Mantine. Yeah, it can sort of take on a few specific threats, and it has a couple of neat support moves, but that doesn't automatically make it good. Not all of its perks are even that big of a deal. Water Absorb isn't that great when you already laugh at special Water moves anyway, and some Water-types like Azumarill, Rotom-W, and Mega Gyarados generally beat you regardless. Haze is usually inferior to phazing except in last Pokemon scenarios (and I guess beating mini Baton Pass chains?) because phazing can both remove the boosts and cause the opponent to lose momentum and possibly take hazard damage, so Gyarados has an advantage there anyway. Scald is cool, but nearly every Water-type gets Scald, lol. Not really that much of an accomplishment. But again, if the combination of a bunch of small traits that can save you a teamslot were such a huge deal, then Donphan would have an analysis right now.
To keep things short, how often is it that stall teams come across a Pokemon capable of beating Crocune, Rain Dance Manaphy, Calm Mind Keldeo, and Lando-I?
Okay, so I'd like to take a closer look at these threats. First of all, neither Crocune nor Rain Dance Manaphy are all that common. Suicune sees about half as much usage needed to achieve the minimum to make OU, and while Manaphy is used a bit more (still under OU usage), the vast majority don't even run Calm Mind. While both sets may be plenty good, they aren't exactly threats that are running rampant in OU that stall is desperate to defeat. Besides, I have literally never lost to either of these simply because the combination of Clear Smog Amoonguss and Heal Bell Chansey (or any Heal Beller really, just to heal random Scald burns) stops them from going very far at all. It's not that I have to pack both of those just to deal with these guys. It's that they are both solid Pokemon anyway that check a whole host of other things, and they both just happen to do a good job of beating both Calm Minders.
As for the other two, well, it kinda depends on the set. I'm not sure what kind of EVs people are running on Mantine, so I'll just assume each extreme.
For specially defensive:
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mantine: 139-164 (41.6 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
If Mantine had reliable recovery, this might be okay, but it doesn't. The single most common Keldeo set by a long shot 3HKOs with a resisted STAB, so you get one turn to do something productive before you die. Seeing as how Mantine is supposed to be your Defogger, chances are that either Stealth Rock is down or it was down earlier and you already took damage from it, in which case there's a good chance that Mantine is 2HKOed. Obviously, +1 Leftovers Keldeo gets a similar result, while you do...what in return, exactly? I guess you might have a chance if you're running Air Slash (again, I'm not exactly sure what kind of set we're talking about here), but even then, Keldeo 3HKOs you at +1 while you only 4HKO it in return with Air Slash. Haze sort of messes with it, but then you get into mind games about when to Haze (in case they Calm Mind) and when to Air Slash (in case they Secret Sword). Life Orb versions just 2HKO at +1, so they're even harder to beat.
In the case of Landorus, you have trouble with Knock Off and Calm Mind variants, the two that are the most dangerous for stall. For Knock Off variants:
4 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mantine: 147-174 (44 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mantine: 100-118 (29.9 - 35.3%) -- 24.3% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 87-103 (26 - 30.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
After Stealth Rock damage, two Knock Offs (a very spamable move, by the way) will almost always KO. Even if Stealth Rock isn't up, Knock Off + 2 Psychics has a good shot at KOing. Alternatively, 2 Knock Offs + Psychic is barely a guaranteed KO against Mantine at full health. In return, Mantine can barely break 72% against an uninvested Naive Landorus. Calm Mind sets are also still dangerous:
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 130-153 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Sort of like Calm Mind Keldeo, you get into mind games about whether to Haze or Scald. If the Landorus player wins the coinflips, it wins the matchup (it may not even need to guess if Stealth Rock is down since +1 Psychic => 2 +0 Psychics can KO after Stealth Rock damage). Again, this wouldn't be a problem if you had reliable recovery, but that's not the case. Of course, Scald burns help the matchup against Calm Mind Landorus if you're lucky, but I'd hate to have to rely on luck to beat something that I'm supposed to counter.
For physically defensive variants:
You actually take Keldeo on a lot better now, but Specs Secret Sword is still usually a 3HKO after Stealth Rock, so you still have to hope that either your opponent never set Stealth Rock or you were able to remove it earlier in the match somehow and recover enough health with Leftovers to safely tank the Sacred Sword. You do beat Calm Mind variants more easily now, but you still probably need both Haze and Air Slash to actually win.
As for Landorus, you run into this problem:
4 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 100-118 (29.9 - 35.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mantine: 114-135 (34.1 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Knock Off + 2 Psychics is an almost guaranteed KO, so you still run into huge problems with Landorus spamming Knock Off as you switch in. As for Calm Mind variants:
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mantine: 170-201 (50.8 - 60.1%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Yeah, you're kinda screwed. Best case scenario, you Haze on the first Psychic, Scald on a second, uninvested Psychic, and die on the third. Landorus still has 36-46% of its health left, and you have a dead Mantine. The only way you win is if you just go for the Scald immediately, Landorus rolls the 9.8% chance to not 2HKO, and you get a burn on one of the Scalds, which only has a ~5% chance of happening.
So to sum up, Crocune and CM Manaphy aren't even all that common of threats, certainly not worth using such a niche Pokemon to beat. There are also other things like the aformentioned Amoonguss + Heal Beller combination, Ferrothorn, etc. that can keep those two in check. In the case of Keldeo and Landorus, you still have trouble taking on some of their sets, especially after Stealth Rock damage (which is very likely seeing as how Mantine is supposed to be the one removing it).
Moreover, of those possible choices, how many of them can be used as hazard control? As far as being a Defogger is concerned, because Mantine won't be taking much damage from the mons it's switching into--because it actually gets free turns, it being SR-weak doesn't hamper its ability to Defog that much.
There are other popular hazard control Pokemon that stall could be using such as Skarmory and Mandibuzz that can perform other roles and check other important threats. As for creating free turns, it's hard to say that when two of the most common Pokemon that Mantine is supposed to counter and force out in order to create free turns (Keldeo and Landorus) can actually beat it under pretty casual circumstances. Yeah, it gets free turns if your opponent is using a mono-attacking Water-type, but how common are those exactly? Sure, you may get a chance to Defog against Keldeo or Landorus, but then you risk losing your Defogger to a Pokemon you're supposed to counter, in which case you had better hope that your opponent's Stealth Rock user is gone.
Don't analyses of Pokemon relegated to lower tiers deviate from standard cores, anyway? A lot of non-cookie-cutter defensive cores really appreciate what Mantine brings to the table; and I feel as if that's enough to justify it getting the same justice that Pokemon in similar situations (Snorlax, Froslass, and, riding on the VT, Empoleon--because we all know how single-minded and, well, bad they are) have gotten already.
Just saying, Empoleon was rejected a while back, and Snorlax was discussed to be rejected just a couple of pages back. You probably shouldn't be wishing their fate onto Mantine if you want it to get an analysis.
