Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

[Aragorn the King]

Ye we've discussed Cress, Hydre, Weav, and Goth in GREAT length already... I'm all for getting un ranked things there, but we've discussed them thoroughly now.

Weavile hasn't been mentioned since page 27. I thought it was time to bring it back. But I guess you're right about the others. Obviously we can talk about anything I brought up, but I doubt anyone reads my full posts. Other than Cress, Hydre, and Goth, there are still 18 we need to bring up. I edited my post to just talk about the rain threats I just mentioned.

 

[Salemance]

Weavile hasn't been mentioned since page 27. I thought it was time to bring it back. But I guess you're right about the others. Obviously we can talk about anything I brought up, but I doubt anyone reads my full posts. Other than Cress, Hydre, and Goth, there are still 18 we need to bring up. I edited my post to just talk about the rain threats I just mentioned.

Sorry, must be me recalling all the discussion from the other thread too...

And its fine, im just saying that since we have decided on those or sorta, talked bout em extensively, thought different ones were worthy of our time. That all

 

[Aragorn the King]

Sorry, must be me recalling all the discussion from the other thread too...

And its fine, im just saying that since we have decided on those or sorta, talked bout em extensively, thought different ones were worthy of our time. That all

Yeah. I hear ya. I think we should talk about the rain pokemon that are unranked, but that's just me making a random decision. :P

 

[LeekSlap/ChewyDonuts]

Ye we've discussed Cress, Hydre, Weav, and Goth in GREAT length already... I'm all for getting un ranked things there, but we've discussed them thoroughly now.

Just a reminder, haven't used Cress, Hydre is B, Weav is B, Goth is B-,Venu is C+, Reunic is C+, Exploud is C and Hawlucha is D rank. I've used a Venusaur in the sun and it was ok. Surprisingly hard to switch in and nerfed sun doesn't let it set up. Doesn't hit hard but survives and pulls through opponents with Leech Seed and Giga Drain combo. The chlorophyll boost isn't mandatory, but it really helps him out. Reuniclus can bulldoze teams lacking strong enough priority and always survives even super-effective hits to set up Trick Room. However, nobody does not not bring strong priority and Knock Off is very common. Boomburst's power is insane, but Exploud is too slow and frail to use it. He relies a bit too much on Sticky Web to be effective and lacks priority. Hawlucha, despite its awesome design, sucks. Too frail, too much set up, too weak to priority, and its checked by the most and best pokemon.

Rank em.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Gary2346 will this thread be able to do write-ups for the viability ranking as well?

 

[Gary]

Gary2346 will this thread be able to do write-ups for the viability ranking as well?

Yes you can. Just make sure to tag me when you post your write up in case it gets buried before I see it. Also everyone make sure to keep up with what the VR thread people are reserving and what has already been done. Don't reserve what's already been reserved or finished.

 

[Salemance]

I would like to reserve Hippowdon for a Write up. Where would you like these put btw?

Gary2346

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One of the defining walls of the past few generations, Hippowdon is able to serve as a the premier physical and mixed wall with ease not. Not much can break through his sheer bulk, with Zard X failing to do so without proper assistance, and yet he is no sitting duck either. He is capable of retaliating back with a great base attack and STAB Earthquake, something that deals respectable damage even without investment, ensuring that most enemies will not leave their match with him unscathed. The icing on the cake though is Slack Off, which enables him to stick around, abosorbing hit after hit for his team with little worry as he can get it right back and adjust appropriately.
His flaws, while few, lie in his typing and special defense stat. While Ground is not necessarily bad, he gets three weaknesses in the form of Ice, Grass, and Water, which are all primarily special attacking types, hitting his weaker special defense stat extremely hard. He is able to patch this up slightly with his great HP, but a low Sp Def stat is still low, making him manageable to most strong attackers as one of his weaknesses is a basic form of coverage from BoltBeam to dragon slaying.
Despite his few flaws, Hippowdon is still one of the best Walls in the meta, taking hits, healing, and hitting back with the best of the OU tier.

and as much as I like to discuss putting stuff up for ranking....can I discuss the change of Bisharp to S RANK?

I am at odds with this promotion, as this thing is quite good in the meta, but to call it S rank seems a bit far fetched. With crippling speed stat of 70, semi-reliable priority of Sucker Punch, and common weaknesses to Fighting, Ground, Fire, I see a lot of why it shouldn't be there, but I'd like to see if others agree with the promotion.

EDIT: also, if you are confused as to why im talking bout Bisharp to S rank, he has been moved up on the VR Viability Thread.

 

[Cobalt314]

I can't see Metagross on the list...is it not ranked yet?
If so, I'd like to rank it at C/C-. It is a great offensive tank, but the nerf to steels has really hurt its presence

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Then I'll be reserving Kingdra.

I can't see Metagross on the list...is it not ranked yet?
If so, I'd like to rank it at C/C-. It is a great offensive tank, but the nerf to steels has really hurt its presence

iirc it was rejected

;_;7

--------

Gary2346

bow to the king

Hide

Despite the Drizzle nerf, offensive rain teams are still very strong this generation and it's thanks in part to Kingdra. Its ability in Swift Swim and respectable base speed allows it to outrun the entire unboosted metagame, with a blistering 538 speed in rain. While its 95 base Special Attack may seem underwhelming, it can run Modest or Rash with virtually no drawbacks, and its STAB water moves are boosted by 50% in rain; furthermore, its secondary STAB in Dragon gives it nearly perfect neutral coverage. It also has fairly good bulk, and a typing that gives it only two weaknesses and a resistance to some forms of priority. These traits let Kingdra easily overwhelm many teams: it OHKOs much of the tier with Rain and Item boosted Hydro Pumps or Surfs, sits in a nearly touchable speed tier which can make it very hard to revenge kill, has enough bulk to take all but the strongest of priority moves; and Dragon STAB allows it to break down water resists with Dragon Pulse or Draco Meteor, potentially allowing it to sweep later or opening up a sweep for a teammate. Kingdra is very dangerous in rain and is a top choice of many rain teams.

 

[Gary]

I would like to reserve Hippowdon for a Write up. Where would you like these put btw?

and as much as I like to discuss putting stuff up for ranking....can I discuss the change of Bisharp to S RANK?

I am at odds with this promotion, as this thing is quite good in the meta, but to call it S rank seems a bit far fetched. With crippling speed stat of 70, semi-reliable priority of Sucker Punch, and common weaknesses to Fighting, Ground, Fire, I see a lot of why it shouldn't be there, but I'd like to see if others agree with the promotion.

Just edit your post when you're finished no need to post twice. I've seen many great posts here and on the VR thread about promoting it to S-rank, as well as hearing it from a few well known tournament players about moving it up as well. I pretty much already explained why it got its promotion in the update post, so make sure to read that thoroughly. I knew this would be a pretty controversial bump, but sometimes Bisharp's overall impact on the meta is often overlooked for its obvious flaws. It's one of those Pokemon where its vast pros outweigh its cons.

 

[skies]

I'll reserve Kyurem-B and Thundurus-I :]

Kyurem-B
Kyurem-B is a phenomenal wallbreaker Pokemon who can destroy Stall teams with ease. Kyurem-B has a monumental base 170 Attack stat, being tied for highest Attack in the game with Mega Garchomp. Kyurem-B also has a very large base 120 Special Attack stat backed by above average 125 / 100 / 90 bulk allowing it to take many hits. Ice Beam is Kyurem-B's main draw, as it has insane power and coverage when combined with Earth Power that allow it to take on Heatran reliably. Fairies may seem like a downfall of Kyurem-B, however Fusion Bolt 2HKOes all relevant Fairies. Where Kyurem-B falls short however is its not-so-outstanding base 95 Speed, which allows it to be outspeed by common threats such as Greninja and Thundurus, who can cause serious damage to Kyruem before it can even attack. Kyurem-B is still a huge threat with amazing coverage, and if you aren't prepared for it, then you might find yourself in trouble!
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Thundurus-I
Thundurus is a Pokemon so powerful it was deemed Ubers last generation, however this generation it is back in OU with a splash! Thundurus has an amazing ability: Prankster, which allows it to shoot off Priority Thunder Waves at set up sweepers and fast Pokemon in general. Thundurus has a powerful Thunderbolt and even learns Nasty Plot to make it immensely more powerful. Thundurus also has a rather large and expansive movepool such as Focus Blast, U-Turn, and Knock Off. Speaking of Knock Off, Thundurus can also run an excellent Physical set thanks to its other ability: Defiant, which allows it to switch into Defogs and get an instant +2 Attack. Some physical options include Superpower, Wild Charge, and the aforementioned Knock Off. Thundurus also sits at a very fast Speed tier of 111. Thundurus is certainly a huge threat in the current metagame that all teams should be prepared for!


Gary2346
Here's Thundurus :] Should I mention Stealth Rock somewhere in here, or would you leave it out?

 

[Salemance]

Just edit your post when you're finished no need to post twice. I've seen many great posts here and on the VR thread about promoting it to S-rank, as well as hearing it from a few well known tournament players about moving it up as well. I pretty much already explained why it got its promotion in the update post, so make sure to read that thoroughly. I knew this would be a pretty controversial bump, but sometimes Bisharp's overall impact on the meta is often overlooked for its obvious flaws. It's one of those Pokemon where its vast pros outweigh its cons.

I read your post quite well, its just it seemed shocking to me was all (hence you saying controversial there and here just now). I was more trying to get the opinion of some of the other posters as I would like to know their opinions as well since I'd like to know if they agreed or disagreed.

Thanks for telling me just to edit though. Will have it up soonish.

 

[sidakarya]

I'll reserve M-Mawile again, and M-Gardevoir.

Nobody said Elves are nice. Elves are bad.

M-Mawile

Sporting the highest attack stat in the game, higher than even the strongest Choice Banders, Mega Mawile's raw power and wallbreaking prowess is just terror to behold. Its offensive movepool is just right for Mawile's role, including a great STAB in Play Rough, the priority of Sucker Punch, and the coverage of Fire Fang, Knock Off, Brick Break, or even Focus Punch, and set-up moves in Swords Dance(!!) and Substitute. All of this is rounded out by decent bulk and a great defensive type-combination, giving it many opportunities to switch in and wreak havoc. It naturally forms potent offensive cores in particular with dragons like Dragonite and Latios, as they complement eachother's typings and checks. The main thing holding Mawile back is, that at base 50 speed, it is dreadfully slow. Swords Dance sets are oft forced to use Sucker Punch, which suffers from low PP and easy exploitability by set-up sweepers and status. While the Subpunch set can work around this, it is very quickly worn and lacks the power to tear through defensive cores. Despite these faults, that so few things can stomach its megatonne-offence suffices to establish Mega Mawile as one of the most powerful and best megas in OU.

M-Gardevoir

"Silk hiding steel" would be the aptest phrase to describe Mega Gardevoir. Having been blessed twice with the coveted Fairy-type and a Mega Evolution, Gardevoir has become a very potently hard-hitting special attacker. Gardevoir's main attack Hyper Voice, augmented into a boosted Fairy STAB by the Pixillate ability, is one of the most powerful special Fairy moves. Its secondary STAB in Psyshock, hitting special walls in their weaker physical defence, makes M-Gardevoir a natural wallbreaker, and this is rounded out by the coverage of Shadow Ball, Hidden Power and Focus Blast. What makes M-Gardevoir truly stand out from other special-attacking psychics is its wide support movepool. Most notable of these is Will-o'-Wisp - a huge deterrent for Steel-types, who would otherwise freely threaten her - as well as Taunt to disrupt Stall-teams. All of these make Gardevoir incredibly hard to switch into. Where M-Gardevoir falters most are her defence and speed. Gardevoir is extremely fragile, such that even resisted STAB hits will sting. Her speed, while good for a wallbreaker, is awkward for a sweeping role, and her lack of priority makes her easily revenge-killed - this is even worse before the first mega-evolution. Furthermore, the best Pokémon in OU, Aegislash, is Gardevoir's bane - while it does not appreciate a burn, it is guaranteed to force Gardevoir out with its STABs. Though Gardevoir has enough flaws to keep it from being top-tier, it is with the right support still nothing to be underestimated.

Sorry for the late update Gary2346, but I've finished these.

 

[BurningFury101]

Ah what the hell.

If I may, I would like to reserve Deoxys-S.

 

[Srn]

Mega Tyranitar is all mine :3

(I'd like to reserve him for a write up, in case that didn't get across)

muh bby Mttar

Tyranitar was one of the Pokemon blessed with a Mega Evolution, making its transition much smoother than some other Pokemon. Mega Tyranitar is a fearsome dragon dance sweeper capable of setting up even on Pokemon with super effective STAB moves. After a single boost, it sits above the entire unboosted tier, and with an astounding base 164 attack and fantastic coverage with Earthquake and Ice Punch, few pokemon can claim to stand in its way. Mega Tyranitar can even live powerful priority attacks from the likes of Banded Scizor and Banded Azumarill and continue its sweep! However, common physical walls like Hippowdon, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory manage to give Mega Tyranitar trouble this generation as well, and must be severely weakened before attempting to sweep. The rise in popularity of scarfed Ground- types like Diggersby, Excadrill, and Garchomp doesn't make its job much easier. Despite these flaws, with a combination of just enough speed, amazing attack, and ridiculous defenses, Mega Tyranitar is one of the most threatening sweepers in the entire tier.

Ok this is ready :]
Gary2346

 

[deepbluejeer]

I'm going to try my hand at writing Zapdos's.

Hide

Making a return to OU is Zapdos; while its typing suggests that it faces competition from Thundurus, Zapdos has enough at its disposal to stand up against OU's many threats. Zapdos's stats allow it to take a more defensive role compared to Thundurus, allowing it to take powerful Flying-type attacks from M-Pinsir and Talonflame while hitting back with Thunderbolt. It also has access to the ever-useful Defog to support its team; unlike most users of Defog, it is also able to prevent Bisharp from freely switching-in for a Defiant boost with Heat Wave. With Roost and Toxic combined with its bulk, Zapdos is also able to capitalize on its Pressure ability to take on a stalling role. While a physically-defensive build is desirable to enable it to check the abundance of physical attackers in OU, Zapdos is versatile enough to take on a specially-defensive build to check Landorus-I, or even run an offensive set with its decent Sp. Atk and Speed. Although a weakness to Stealth Rock makes its job more difficult, Zapdos's desirable traits make it a solid contender for a team slot in OU.

 

[Flamer]

I'm really conflicted about the decision to promote Bisharp to S. While I agree that DeoSharp is an amazing offensive combination, Bisharps low speed really kills its viability. If the opponent does allow Bisharp to get an easy +2 in attack with Defog, it wrecks, however, the switch is almost embarrassingly predictable and common defoggers like Zapdos and Latios can deal serious damage with Heat Wave and EQ (Latios has a hard time with Bisharp though because of Pursuit and Sucker Punch). Its low speed leaves it outsped by most of the OU tier and forces it to use Sucker Punch extensively, further demostrating its exploitability. Other than that Bisharp is great but S is too high for something that has trouble taking hits and is too slow to avoid taking said hits, A+ is what Bisharp deserves and is still a very respectable rank.

Tagging Gary2346 Because I have the feeling you really supported this change and can provide some insight on your reasons behind it.

 

[Pikachuu]

Anyone else think Mega Tyranitar could be S-rank? it's the second best if not best DDancer in OU. It's bulky as hell so it can even set up on stuff like Garchomp, Greninja and Excadrill and can tank Aqua Jets and Bullet Punches from Scizor. Not to mention how unpredictable T-tar is in general. EX: Lati@s usually just stay in thinking it's going to pursuit allowing to set up 2 DDs.

 

[Mowtom]

Gary2346

Reserving Azumarill

Hide

Sometimes, looks can be deceiving. This is quite true for Azumarill. The blue puffball with a base Attack of 50 is actually one of the best physical wallbreakers and sweepers in OU. Its ability, Huge Power, shoots its base Attack up to the equivalent of 149 with maximum investment. With a STAB priority move in Aqua Jet to make up for its low speed, which is only 50, and an incredibly strong attack in Play Rough, Azumarill can destroy many teams. A Choice Band set lets it act as a revenge killer and a wallbreaker, as its Play Roughs are very hard to tank. A Belly Drum set shoots its Attack though the roof, letting it OHKO most of the metagame with Aqua Jet alone. An Assault Vest set can also be used if a bulkier Azumarill is preferable, as it gets options such as Waterfall for a more powerful Water STAB and Knock Off for great utility. These traits combined ensure that Azumarill will always have a place in the OU environment.

Tagging Gary2346 again so he sees that this is done.

 

[dannyboee2]

Why is togekiss so far down? Would you call it overshadowed by jirachi?

 

[Rechi]

Why is togekiss so far down? Would you call it overshadowed by jirachi?

How would it be overshadowed by Jirachi? Togekiss is in C+ while Jirachi's in D rank.

 

[Baharoth]

Honestly... Bisharp in S? He faces heavy competition as a Defiant user from Thundurus, I would even go as far as to say that he is outclassed by him. His primary job is to block Defog but when looking at his matchups against common Defogers the only ones where he has a somewhat decent matchup are the latis. He cant switch into Zapdos for fear of Thunderbolt/Heatwave, he takes massiv damage from Mandibuzz and even loses if Mandibuzz predicts the obvious switch and uses Foul Play instead of Defog, and Skarm can just Defog and phaze him out afterwards and even switching into the latis is dangeous as he takes lots of dmg from their attacks. It should also be mentioned that Thundurus can deal with the Latis as well if he gets in savely. As a sweeper there are tons of offensiv checks for him and quite a few walls that can handle him very well. I realy dont understand those rankings anymore, outclassed stuff gets S Rank while monsters like Pinsir and Venu get demoted its ridiculous.

 

[dannyboee2]

How would it be overshadowed by Jirachi? Togekiss is in C+ while Jirachi's in D rank.

That's what i dont understand. ParaFlinch Togekiss is really strong, i dont see how it is C+

 

[alexwolf]

Update time

Changes suggested in this thread:

Gothitelle: Unranked ---> B-
Shuckle: Unranked ---> B-
Galvantula: B- ---> C+
Weavile: Unranked ---> C+
Banette (Mega): D ---> C
Reuniclus: Unranked ---> C+
Cresselia: Unranked ---> C
Salamence: C+ ---> C
Hydreigon: Unranked ---> C+
Durant: Unranked ---> C+
Haxorus: Unranked ---> C+
Umbreon: Unranked ---> C
Amoonguss: Unranked ---> C
Zoroark: Unranked ---> C-
Gorebyss: Unranked ---> C
Hawlucha: Unranked ---> C-
Nidoking: C- ---> D
Milotic: Unranked ---> C
Tornadus: Unranked ---> C
Toxicroak: Unranked ---> C
Omastar: Unranked ---> C
Exploud: Unranked ---> D
Venusaur: Unranked ---> C+
Kyurem: C+ ---> C

Changes from the VR thread:

Bisharp: A+ ---> S
Deoxys-D: A+ ---> S
Heatran: A+ ---> A
Latias: A ---> A-
Suicune: B+ ---> B
Sylveon: B+ ---> B
Rhyperior: C ---> B-
Volcarona: B ---> B-
Alakazam (Mega): C+ ---> B-

 

[Terrakion.]

Well I guess I'll start off with my opinions on these.

Gothitelle: I think it's in the right place. I seen it recently on semi-stall team that rely a lot on switches and for Goth to trap things such as Quagsire (Energy Ball), Venusaur (Psyshock / Psyshic), Skarmory (Cripple with Trick, Thunderbolt) etc.

Shuckle: This thing has came a long way. Finally having some viability getting Sticky Web, this can be a good add to certain teams. Getting Stealth Rock and Sticky Web and with the recent popularity of Mental Herb leads, Shuckle finally is viable.

Galvantula: With Shuckle becoming the better Sticky Web setter, Galvantula is becoming more obsolete as it needs Focus Sash to do it's purpose. Also as stated, Shuckle also sets Stealth Rock. Galvantula does have an Offensive presence with STAB Compound eyes Thunder and Bug Buzz.

Weavile: I honestly thought that this generation would be Weavile's time to shine. The Knock Off buff helping a handful of Pokemon especially being Fighting and Dark types. After I seen Weavile appear in UU again, it wasn't what I thought it was. The x4 Fighting weakness and its fragile defenses are what makes Weavile what it is instead of making it something what I can be.

Going to skip around here..Going to edit and add more.