Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

[Numera]

Sylveon to B-. It hits hard with its Choice Specs set getting an ample amount of switch in oppurtunities with its typing and bulk and has a good wish set. Definetely not at the level as other C+ 'mons. Move it up.

No chance. Sylveon's Specs set is the ONLY thing setting it apart from other Pokemon in the tier and it really isn't all that great. It's a ton of fun, sure, but it's certainly not easy to switch in against offence or stall (252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 300-355 (76.5 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, 252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 214-253 (54.5 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 183-216 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 65.6% chance to 2HKO, [unrelated but I just checked 3 of my teams and 2 of them had all 6 Pokemon able to 2HKO it on the switch, 1 of them had 5 of them able to. It's also can't switch in on any of S bar Thundy and most of A.] ext, and with stall it just hates getting worn down easily.). I get it that it can hit through subs, but that's a small niche to have at best, not a one worthy of B+.

As for the wish set... that's just supporting it being C+. "Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the OU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon."

Completely true. Especially the competition part. It's wish set is almost COMPLETELY outclassed by Clefable's, no questions asked, just fact. Clefable has 2 fantastic abilities to choose from, Unaware and Magic Guard, and also has access to some far better moves to make it more versatile, such as Stealth Rock, Flamethrower, healing outside of Wish, ext. The only thing that Sylveon has over it is the specs set, and that's at least saving it from C-/D. Sylveon can stay in C+.

Espeon for D/Unranked

What exactly does it do now? It's too frail to set screens and use it's ability effectively, it's awfully outclassed as a screener (see also: Cresselia) and it's horribly vulnerable to Pursuit, the sash set hates sand, ext. It hasn't even got a niche anymore, just unank it.

Zapdos for B-

It's a defogger that checks flyspam. And? So is Skarmory (kinda). So many things defog better than it can and there are so many available flyspam checks in this metagame. As a result it's losing viability, as the metagame doesn't really need both. It only ever fits on teams that can't fit a spinner/defogger and a flyspam check, and seeing as these are the first things that come to mind when teambuilding, it's unlikely you'll need all of that on one slot.

 

[Durant]

I really think Zapdos is good where it is right now. I mean surely it faces competition from Skarmory who does the same but Zapdos is still good. Most importantly Zapdos can't get trapped by Magnezone which is pretty huge since it is on every birdspam team really. Unlike Skarmory who has to fear Magnezone coming in every second Zapdos can just freely come in on any bird and force it out. I mean I know Skarmory can run Shed Shell to escape Magnezone but that takes up your item slot and Knock Off is everywhere. Also Skarmory is kind of difficult to fit onto balance teams while Zapdos does pretty well on balanced teams due to it's offensive presence. Zapdos should stay in B imo.

 

[Numera]

I really think Zapdos is good where it is right now. I mean surely it faces competition from Skarmory who does the same but Zapdos is still good. Most importantly Zapdos can't get trapped by Magnezone which is pretty huge since it is on every birdspam team really. Unlike Skarmory who has to fear Magnezone coming in every second Zapdos can just freely come in on any bird and force it out. I mean I know Skarmory can run Shed Shell to escape Magnezone but that takes up your item slot and Knock Off is everywhere. Also Skarmory is kind of difficult to fit onto balance teams while Zapdos does pretty well on balanced teams due to it's offensive presence. Zapdos should stay in B imo.

Skarmory was a tiny part of my argument. Did you read the fact how it's very situational to actually fit on teams when the roles it preforms are the first things that come to mind when teambuilding, which limits it's usage because like every team is going to easily fit the roles in 2 mons? Yeah, that's my main point. It's an effective glue if for SOME REASON you haven't taken both of these things into account or just can't fit them, but other than that it doesn't really do much, seeing as so much does the roles it does so much better, and a combo of the 2 isn't needed that much.

 

[BAKAResh]

Skarmory was a tiny part of my argument. Did you read the fact how it's very situational to actually fit on teams when the roles it preforms are the first things that come to mind when teambuilding, which limits it's usage because like every team is going to easily fit the roles in 2 mons? Yeah, that's my main point. It's an effective glue if for SOME REASON you haven't taken both of these things into account or just can't fit them, but other than that it doesn't really do much, seeing as so much does the roles it does so much better, and a combo of the 2 isn't needed that much.

Nope. Honestly, I think what is hindering Zapdos isn't the fact that it performs two roles at once. (2 roles in 1 mon frees up your team slot. How is that bad?) I think it's the fact that Sand offence is EVERYWHERE. Taking residual damage as well as being locked out by the ExcaTar core is a major no-no for Zapdos. The biggest con to Zapdos (As well the mighty Lati twins) is the fact that 4MSS affects it's role greatly. Because of the fact that it takes on a role of check, reliable recovery is always the first thing to look out for. Accompanied with defog being one of the only methods of removing hazards, this means that you need not worry about hazards. Since we carry the mandatory STAB, it has to choose between carrying Heat Wave or HP Ice (For some teams they even carry Air Slash) and this is what makes it a bit tougher for you to pack it on a team because it is difficult to switch in on common leads if you were missing one or the other (No Heat Waves means vulnerability to Bisharp and quad fire weak mons and no HP Ice means you don't get to beat common leads such as Lando (I/T) and Chomp.

However, your team can always be tailored to fit one of the flyspam checks and Zapdos having respectable bulk + decent offensive presence makes it a great fit for many balanced and offensive teams alike. What really hinders it's effectiveness is the pressure that is exerted on it when it is forced to use recovery moves due to switching in on rocks and this, accompanied with how much chip damage you will be possibly taking for coming in as a check and the omnipresence of Sand, makes it extremely hard for Zapdos to shine (In fact, majority of defoggers who are weak to rocks will face this problem). But that doesn't make it bad or situational. (Althought most people will choose Lati > Zapdos as a defogger, but being able to pack 2 roles in 1 mon is a major boon for Zapdos.)

Conclusion: Zapdos is a very good mon and deserves to stay in B.

On a side note, alexwolf do you think it's possible to have the reasoning for why particular mons are ranked at where they are ranked at on the OP?

 

[Numera]

Nope. Honestly, I think what is hindering Zapdos isn't the fact that it performs two roles at once. (2 roles in 1 mon frees up your team slot. How is that bad?) I think it's the fact that Sand offence is EVERYWHERE. Taking residual damage as well as being locked out by the ExcaTar core is a major no-no for Zapdos. The biggest con to Zapdos (As well the mighty Lati twins) is the fact that 4MSS affects it's role greatly. Because of the fact that it takes on a role of check, reliable recovery is always the first thing to look out for. Accompanied with defog being one of the only methods of removing hazards, this means that you need not worry about hazards. Since we carry the mandatory STAB, it has to choose between carrying Heat Wave or HP Ice (For some teams they even carry Air Slash) and this is what makes it a bit tougher for you to pack it on a team because it is difficult to switch in on common leads if you were missing one or the other (No Heat Waves means vulnerability to Bisharp and quad fire weak mons and no HP Ice means you don't get to beat common leads such as Lando (I/T) and Chomp.

However, your team can always be tailored to fit one of the flyspam checks and Zapdos having respectable bulk + decent offensive presence makes it a great fit for many balanced and offensive teams alike. What really hinders it's effectiveness is the pressure that is exerted on it when it is forced to use recovery moves due to switching in on rocks and this, accompanied with how much chip damage you will be possibly taking for coming in as a check and the omnipresence of Sand, makes it extremely hard for Zapdos to shine (In fact, majority of defoggers who are weak to rocks will face this problem). But that doesn't make it bad or situational. (Althought most people will choose Lati > Zapdos as a defogger, but being able to pack 2 roles in 1 mon is a major boon for Zapdos.)

Conclusion: Zapdos is a very good mon and deserves to stay in B.

On a side note, alexwolf do you think it's possible to have the reasoning for why particular mons are ranked at where they are ranked at on the OP?

Problem with tailoring such a team: Why bother. There's so many flyspam checks and so many defoggers, all of which are top priority on teams, limiting it's usage, seeing as 1 flyspam check and 1 defogger is enough. While having 2 in 1 is nice and all, it's very hard for it to actually benefit the team. You could have 2 top tier Pokemon, one a flyspam check and one a defogger, but instead you pick this 2 in 1 thing that if it dies you've lost to flyspam AND hazards, increasing it's risk factor. High Risk... mid reward? In other words it has a decent amount of reward exerted but a lot of risk involved. As you said: it has to deal with chip damage from rocks and sand, 4MMs, ext, and these are very notable flaws. It can indeed fit on balanced very well, yes, but when building offence I'm not even going to consider this thing. Why would I run this over something with insane offensive presence/something with HEALING WISH over it as a defogger on an offensive team. It's not like fitting flyspam checks is hard on offence these days, I could always use shit like Scarf Zone or Scarf TTar, and they do more than just check flyspam. We play a metagame where a combo of a defogger and a flyspam check isn't needed due to how important it is to fit them on a team, and how easy it is to do so. Zapdos CAN move down to B-, because of it's large amount of flaws in our metagame and competition to fit on teams.

 

[Kyuzeth]

Time to give this another spin.

Rhyperior | I've already talked about this in a previous post and almost everybody agrees on moving it up.

Zapdos (B) -> B- | Zapdos really isn't that good in the current metagame. As a Defogger, there are two major problems Zapdos suffers from: the first being that, in spite of being a Defogger, it has a SR weakness, which is highly detrimental; the second being that as both an offensive and defensive Defogger, it's entirely outperformed by the Eons on the offensive side and by Skarmory and even Mandibuzz on the defensive side. To add things up, Zapdos can't even check Flying Spam effectively, as it can't switch into BU or SD Talonflame if the firebird has set up, nor does it want to come in on a CB Flare Blitz. Staraptor is a massive problem, as its monstrous Banded Reckless Double-Edge fucking hurts; all you need is to have your Rocks up on your foe's side and Staraptor will always OHKO with Double-Edge. Let's not forget that Zapdos does jackshit against Sand Offense and badly suffers from 4MSS: forgoing Heat Wave means Steels wall you to death, especially Ferrothorn, while forgoing HP Ice means Dragon-types use you as set-up bait and you're highly susceptible to most Rock- and Ground-types. It's nice that it can function as a Defogger and Flying Spam check in one, but it's highly inconsistent in trying to perform both tasks. This, along with the aforementioned flaws, is why Zapdos should fall to B-.

 

[BAKAResh]

Time to give this another spin.

Rhyperior | I've already talked about this in a previous post and almost everybody agrees on moving it up.

Zapdos (B) -> B- | Zapdos really isn't that good in the current metagame. As a Defogger, there are two major problems Zapdos suffers from: the first being that, in spite of being a Defogger, it has a SR weakness, which is highly detrimental; the second being that as both an offensive and defensive Defogger, it's entirely outperformed by the Eons on the offensive side and by Skarmory and even Mandibuzz on the defensive side. To add things up, Zapdos can't even check Flying Spam effectively, as it can't switch into BU or SD Talonflame if the firebird has set up, nor does it want to come in on a CB Flare Blitz. Staraptor is a massive problem, as its monstrous Banded Reckless Double-Edge fucking hurts; all you need is to have your Rocks up on your foe's side and Staraptor will always OHKO with Double-Edge. Let's not forget that Zapdos does jackshit against Sand Offense and badly suffers from 4MSS: forgoing Heat Wave means Steels wall you to death, especially Ferrothorn, while forgoing HP Ice means Dragon-types use you as set-up bait and you're highly susceptible to most Rock- and Ground-types. It's nice that it can function as a Defogger and Flying Spam check in one, but it's highly inconsistent in trying to perform both tasks. This, along with the aforementioned flaws, is why Zapdos should fall to B-.

I was already leaning on pushing Zappy down to B- but TerrorDave didn't push for a very strong argument. This was all I needed to be convinced that Zappy should move down to B-.

 

[alexwolf]

On a side note, alexwolf do you think it's possible to have the reasoning for why particular mons are ranked at where they are ranked at on the OP?

Maybe, if i have the free time to collect all the descriptions. However, it's definitely not happening in this thread because it will derail the hell out of it. If it happens i will make a new thread for it, where you can all submit small descriptions of each Pokemon.

 

[Rosen]

Also can we go ahead and add Greninja n Talonflame to the "conclusion reached" section? They've been there almost since the beginning and have shown no signs of going anywhere

 

[Durant]

Also can we go ahead and add Greninja n Talonflame to the "conclusion reached" section? They've been there almost since the beginning and have shown no signs of going anywhere

Yeah but just about nobody is talking about them going up or down so it is kind of useless to put them in the conclusion reached section.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Yeah but just about nobody is talking about them going up or down so it is kind of useless to put them in the conclusion reached section.

Doesn't that sorta show that we've reached a conclusion though?

 

[alexwolf]

What Durant said. At that point, most Pokemon have reached a definite conclusion, but i want to put in the ''conclusion reached'' list only the Pokemon that derail discussion because they are always nominated to change ranks. I guess, i would include most Pokemon in A rank in this list, but it seems a bit pointless. Not sure, will see what will do about it...

 

[Call me 911]

This list looks pretty good actually!
Just 2 changes I'd like to see happen to make it perfect;)


Infernape from C+ to B-, This mon is coverage himself, also a great speed stat allows it to be as offensive as can be. With a great movepool that allows it to have perfect coverage with elemental punches (mainly thunderpunch), priority in mach punch and uturn for initiave. Aside from just those moves it has the very powerful moves in flare blitz and close combat, both stab! When not being choice locked there are very few mons that take the combination of these moves without getting killed. With access to all sorts of set up, both physical and special it can be very unpredictable. This also allows it to run mixed which can very well break teams when unprepared. Infernape also gets a wide variety of support moves so offensive hazard setter with s/r is a common choice aswell.
All of these things listed above make it very viable to me for a B- rating. Despite it's relatively low attack and sp att stat it packs a punch. Compare it to Greninja, both its physical and special attack are lower then Infernape's. I don't think anyone will even try and say that l/o greninja doesn't hit like a train. Hydro pumps are 120 base power, so are (stonger) close combats and flare blitzes from Infernape. I feel that people easily forget what offensive pressure infernape lies on a team since it has little bulk and its typing is very lackening defensively. I hope my opinion will have some value :)
After all B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the OU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

Cobalion from unlisted to C-, Cobalion has a pretty unique typing, allowing it to take a good amount of hits with it's great physical bulk. Also as an offensive hazard setter it is really good and underappreciated. 108 speed like its family is (as proven by them) very fast, even in OU. Few mons outspeed without being choice locked. Last but not least it has good coverage in stabs, stone edge, etc. and a wide variety of support moves in volt switch, stealth rock, twave, etc.
I understand that mons used in lower tiers aren't exactly popular to many (ignorant) OU players. But Cobalion has its niches that makes it very viable, even in OU. Sets like Swords Dance or w/e will not be viable per se since many mons outclass it. But for a team support role it really is underestimated.
C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the OU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon. Many sets can be effective depending on your team. But niches it really has over other mons are its 108 speed stat, coverage in stabs and rock move, fast taunt (prevent defog for example) and the ability to set up hazards or twave support the rest of the team. I can understand that Cobalion won't fulfill all roles like many other OU mons do, but that's why I suggest it for C- after all. It's best role is as an hazard(lead) by setting up stealth rocks and prevent them from being defogged away.

~Call me 911

 

[QuickBH]

This list looks pretty good actually!
Just 3 changes I'd like to see happen to make it perfect;)

Scizor from B to A-, last gen this monster was used the most out of all legal mons in OU and this gen not much has changed it tbh. Statwise it is really scary and can perfom many roles. An almost perfect movepool makes it great as full offense, offensive support or fully defensive. The glaring fire weakness is easily patched by team mates and only makes it only hinders him somewhat from being a great mon. I am really surprised that it's rated this low as it is so versatile and the versatility factor helps alot aswell. A great movepool with support moves in uturn, bullet punch (offensive) and defog/roost. Idk why it's so underappreciated tbh!

Infernape from C+ to B-, This mon is coverage himself, also a great speed stat allows it to be as offensive as can be. With a great movepool that allows it to have perfect coverage with elemental punches (mainly thunderpunch), priority in mach punch and uturn for initiave. Aside from just those moves it has the very powerful moves in flare blitz and close combat, both stab! When not being choice locked there are very few mons that take the combination of these moves without getting killed. With access to all sorts of set up, both physical and special it can be very unpredictable. This also allows it to run mixed which can very well break teams when unprepared.

Cobalion from unlisted to C-, Cobalion has a pretty unique typing, allowing it to take a good amount of hits with it's great physical bulk. Also as an offensive hazard setter it is really good and underappreciated. 108 speed like its family is (as proven by them) very fast, even in OU. Few mons outspeed without being choice locked. Last but not least it has good coverage in stabs, stone edge, etc. and a wide variety of support moves in volt switch, stealth rock, twave, etc.

If you want to promote changes, especially new one. You should bring comparisons to other Pokemon to what they do to deserve those ranks. Yes, Scizor and Infernape are good Pokemon, but they have a lot of competition which makes them niche picks, such as Mega Scizor for the former and Keldeo for the latter. you should bring up examples that really make the readers see how useful the niches they have are. Especially with Cobalion, since he's not even ranked.

 

[RotomPoison]

This list looks pretty good actually!
Just 3 changes I'd like to see happen to make it perfect;)

Scizor from B to A-, last gen this monster was used the most out of all legal mons in OU and this gen not much has changed it tbh. Statwise it is really scary and can perfom many roles. An almost perfect movepool makes it great as full offense, offensive support or fully defensive. The glaring fire weakness is easily patched by team mates and only makes it only hinders him somewhat from being a great mon. I am really surprised that it's rated this low as it is so versatile and the versatility factor helps alot aswell. A great movepool with support moves in uturn, bullet punch (offensive) and defog/roost. Idk why it's so underappreciated tbh!

Infernape from C+ to B, This mon is coverage himself, also a great speed stat allows it to be as offensive as can be. With a great movepool that allows it to have perfect coverage with elemental punches (mainly thunderpunch), priority in mach punch and uturn for initiave. Aside from just those moves it has the very powerful moves in flare blitz and close combat, both stab! When not being choice locked there are very few mons that take the combination of these moves without getting killed.

Cobalion from unlisted to C-, Cobalion has a pretty unique typing, allowing it to take a good amount of hits with it's great physical bulk. Also as an offensive hazard setter it is really good and underappreciated. 108 speed like its family is (as proven by them) very fast, even in OU. Few mons outspeed without being choice locked. Last but not least it has good coverage in stabs, stone edge, etc. and a wide variety of support moves in volt switch, stealth rock, twave, etc.

~Call me 911

Usage =/= viability, then and now. A lot has changed for Scizor too, being mostly outclassed by his own Mega Evolution in everything but CB sets (and some people run a fast LO set but that's not really good.) The Fire weakness isn't his only problem either, as Charizard X and Y are everywhere and it has no hope of breaking them. I still say it should drop, CB isn't even that good because every move it has outside U-turn is a bad move to be locked into as Steel is a bad offensive typing and Superpower just makes you weaker and lowers your Defense. Standard bulky SD Mega Scizor takes advantage of Scizor's qualities, it just does nearly everything better. The poor SpDef is another problem.

Infernape I don't have much experience with. It's not a bad Pokemon but it suffers from some of the same things Volcarona does with the exception of Heatran, the main one being Talonflame. I know that Quickbobhero has a lot of experience with Infernape so he can say the rest. Edit: come on really you just ignore that and you post before me...

Cobalion is just outclassed by every single defensive Steel in some way, though it did like Aegislash leaving. The only sort of viable set would be a fast stallbreaker but that set is weak and would run into problems like Close Combat lowering defenses, among other things. Not to mention the 4MSS of Close Combat/Stealth Rock/Volt Switch/Taunt/Toxic as well as possibly needing a 2nd attack.

I also might make a really long post here later about some other Pokemon

 

[Aragorn the King]

Call me 911

Scizor from B to A, last gen this monster was used the most out of all legal mons in OU and this gen not much has changed it tbh. Statwise it is really scary and can perfom many roles. An almost perfect movepool makes it great as full offense, offensive support or fully defensive. The glaring fire weakness is easily patched by team mates and only makes it only hinders him somewhat from being a great mon. I am really surprised that it's rated this low as it is so versatile and the versatility factor helps alot aswell. A great movepool with support moves in uturn, bullet punch (offensive) and defog/roost. Idk why it's so underappreciated tbh!

The reason Scizor is ranked so low is because Mega Scizor exists. All of your positive arguments also apply to Mega Scizor, so you really have to think about what Scizor has over Mega Scizor. It's frailer + slower, so it on paper doesn't look very good. And it really isn't in practice, since its only truly viable set, the band set, gets worn down a lot and can't recover, so it doesn't have any defensive utility, unlike Mega Scizor. Mega Scizor has viable Defog, 3 attacks + roost, and SD sets, which are all pretty great, while the only set normal Scizor can perform decently is band, and it really doesn't have an effect on the metagame. I'd say its effect on the metagame (band scizor) is the same as SD lucario, so a drop totally makes sense to me.

Infernape from C+ to B-, This mon is coverage himself, also a great speed stat allows it to be as offensive as can be. With a great movepool that allows it to have perfect coverage with elemental punches (mainly thunderpunch), priority in mach punch and uturn for initiave. Aside from just those moves it has the very powerful moves in flare blitz and close combat, both stab! When not being choice locked there are very few mons that take the combination of these moves without getting killed.

Infernape has three interesting sets, but all struggle because of how mediocre its stats are. It isn't bad, per se, but it fails to have as much of an effect on the metagame as even Weavile, who isn't even all that great. While it may have access to SR, excellent coverage, Taunt, Endeavor, priority, will-o-wisp, and recovery, it still struggles to stand out, due to the existence of better wallbreakers (heracross), walls (heatran), and sr leads (mamoswine). It's certainly underrated and deserving of a rank, but b- is pushing it.

Cobalion from unlisted to C-, Cobalion has a pretty unique typing, allowing it to take a good amount of hits with it's great physical bulk. Also as an offensive hazard setter it is really good and underappreciated. 108 speed like its family is (as proven by them) very fast, even in OU. Few mons outspeed without being choice locked. Last but not least it has good coverage in stabs, stone edge, etc. and a wide variety of support moves in volt switch, stealth rock, twave, etc.

This is a mon that isn't terrible, but unfortunately has no niche in OU. It faces competition from Rhyperior + ttar as a physical wall, thanks to it not resisting many common attacking types. The Pokemon it's known to wall the best, Bisharp, is deceasing dramatically in usage, so I don't truly see a niche at all. I think of it as a Crobat, something that is all around decent, but struggles to stand out.

 

[Jirachee]

On a related note, I think it's time for Zard Y to drop. It rose up thanks to its defensive set who's claim to fame was dealing with Mega Mawile, who's now in Uberland.

?????????????????????????

Who the fuck uses defensive Zard Y? The standard set itself is more than enough to warrant A+ rank, and I'm 100% sure that's why it rose in the first place. Zard Y didn't lose much with the recent bans, in fact things like Thundurus got even less common, and it tends to match up well against the most common megas, except for Zard X. The only downside is that the Latis got a little better but it's not like they're hard to remove, especially when Fire Blast does so much that they're forced into certain moves.

Scizor from B to A-, last gen this monster was used the most out of all legal mons in OU and this gen not much has changed it tbh. Statwise it is really scary and can perfom many roles. An almost perfect movepool makes it great as full offense, offensive support or fully defensive. The glaring fire weakness is easily patched by team mates and only makes it only hinders him somewhat from being a great mon. I am really surprised that it's rated this low as it is so versatile and the versatility factor helps alot aswell. A great movepool with support moves in uturn, bullet punch (offensive) and defog/roost. Idk why it's so underappreciated tbh!

Scizor's p much always had 3 sets which were Choice, Offensive SD, and Bulky SD. Offensive SD is p much outdone by Bisharp which is not only faster but also has way better STAB, including (arguably) better priority in STAB Sucker Punch which is more powerful than Bullet Punch and has way better typing. Bulky SD is not only outdone by its Mega variant but regular Scizor just can't pull it off. It's pretty weak and not bulky enough to get enough boosts to compensate for that, especially since the number of things it's able to counter has lowered significantly since BW. Choice sets aren't outdone by anything but there's no real reason to run Choice Scarf Scizor. It can't outspeed Greninja which is one of the big targets for Scarfers this gen. I guess you could compare it to ScarfTar but the truth is ScarfTar outdoes it in most situations. CB is pretty much the only set worth running, but it's pretty frail and Bullet Punch is resisted by so many faster Pokemon that it just fails to grab momentum against many offensive teams, while defensive teams just don't care about its moves because they're kinda weak.

I'd actually like to see regular Scizor drop because there's no real reason to use it. All the other mons in B do something that makes them worth using. Whenever I pick Scizor, it's going to hold a Scizorite.

 

[Call me 911]

Call me 911

The reason Scizor is ranked so low is because Mega Scizor exists. All of your positive arguments also apply to Mega Scizor, so you really have to think about what Scizor has over Mega Scizor. It's frailer + slower, so it on paper doesn't look very good. And it really isn't in practice, since its only truly viable set, the band set, gets worn down a lot and can't recover, so it doesn't have any defensive utility, unlike Mega Scizor. Mega Scizor has viable Defog, 3 attacks + roost, and SD sets, which are all pretty great, while the only set normal Scizor can perform decently is band, and it really doesn't have an effect on the metagame. I'd say its effect on the metagame (band scizor) is the same as SD lucario, so a drop totally makes sense to me.


Infernape has three interesting sets, but all struggle because of how mediocre its stats are. It isn't bad, per se, but it fails to have as much of an effect on the metagame as even Weavile, who isn't even all that great. While it may have access to SR, excellent coverage, Taunt, Endeavor, priority, will-o-wisp, and recovery, it still struggles to stand out, due to the existence of better wallbreakers (heracross), walls (heatran), and sr leads (mamoswine). It's certainly underrated and deserving of a rank, but b- is pushing it.


This is a mon that isn't terrible, but unfortunately has no niche in OU. It faces competition from Rhyperior + ttar as a physical wall, thanks to it not resisting many common attacking types. The Pokemon it's known to wall the best, Bisharp, is deceasing dramatically in usage, so I don't truly see a niche at all. I think of it as a Crobat, something that is all around decent, but struggles to stand out.

I definately understand that Mega Scizor is better then the normal form, but because this is a viability rating I don't think that scizor should be ranked less viable just because it has a mega?

Standard sets on infernape shouldn't be the only thing that rate the viability of a mon right? It has a huge amount of options and it can perfom many very very well.
For example mixed attacker, or offensive hazard setter. It so called mediocre stats, which I assume are the att/sp att, are comparable to greninja's and I don't think it's stopping Greninja from being ranked A in the viability ratings?
Cobalion has more uses then just being a counter for bisharp. I have edited my post to hopefully make everyone understand why I suggested it for a C- rank.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

I definately understand that Mega Scizor is better then the normal form, but because this is a viability rating I don't think that scizor should be ranked less viable just because it has a mega?

Standard sets on infernape shouldn't be the only thing that rate the viability of a mon right? It has a huge amount of options and it can perfom many very very well.
For example mixed attacker, or offensive hazard setter. It so called mediocre stats, which I assume are the att/sp att, are comparable to greninja's and I don't think it's stopping Greninja from being ranked A in the viability ratings?
Cobalion has more uses then just being a counter for bisharp. I have edited my post to hopefully make everyone understand why I suggested it for a C- rank.

Greninja has an ability that multiplies the power of all its moves by 1.5x and it has a godlike speed tier, as well as great coverage

Infernape only has great coverage when compared to Greninja

 

[KztxL7]

I definately understand that Mega Scizor is better then the normal form, but because this is a viability rating I don't think that scizor should be ranked less viable just because it has a mega?

If there is no reason to use regular Scizor because its Mega Form (and other Pokemon) do its roles better then that makes the pokemon essentially less viable.

 

[Call me 911]

Greninja has an ability that multiplies the power of all its moves by 1.5x and it has a godlike speed tier, as well as great coverage

Infernape only has great coverage when compared to Greninja

I mentioned hydro pump, which is stab boosted anyways. Yes the coverage moves are alot stronger, but I used this example to show Infernape's damage output.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

I mentioned hydro pump, which is stab boosted anyways. Yes the coverage moves are alot stronger, but I used this example to show Infernape's damage output.

You want every single one of your coverage moves to OHKO what they are supposed to, Greninja can do that

Infernape can at best land a 2HKO on what its coverage moves should kill, and even then HP Ice can't kill a Garchomp
44 SpA Life Orb Infernape Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 281-333 (78.7 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(44 satk provided by calc)

a mon this pitifully weak most certainly cannot go above C+, especially when you are hopelessly outperformed by Keldeo, an S rank mon

 

[AM]

I definately understand that Mega Scizor is better then the normal form, but because this is a viability rating I don't think that scizor should be ranked less viable just because it has a mega?

Standard sets on infernape shouldn't be the only thing that rate the viability of a mon right? It has a huge amount of options and it can perfom many very very well.
For example mixed attacker, or offensive hazard setter. It so called mediocre stats, which I assume are the att/sp att, are comparable to greninja's and I don't think it's stopping Greninja from being ranked A in the viability ratings?
Cobalion has more uses then just being a counter for bisharp. I have edited my post to hopefully make everyone understand why I suggested it for a C- rank.

It's not ranked less (Scizor) solely on the purpose of being outclassed by its mega. It's ranked lower because in terms of OU as a whole, it's not as efficient as a lot other mons and in most cases doesn't really warrant a slot on a team unless you want its niche of using banded Scizor or one of its other sets. Agreeing with the fact regular Scizor should drop as well.

Sets and practical use of Infernape, and everything in general, is what is used to consider placement of a certain mon. Huge amounts of options doesn't mean much if the huge amount of options dwindle down to only a handful of sets due to how the metagame is. Where in one tier it can excel like in UU, other tiers it won't excel as much, which is the case for Infernape. Too much sand offense, revenge killers, and general threats that makes infernapes job hard to accomplish.

Cobalion is one of those cases where it checks a couple of things, and then is outclassed entirely in the numerous other roles it plays. This can be said about a lot of lower tier stuff but they shouldn't be ranked simply cause it can pull off a couple of things in a niche situation. Bisharp usage for the most part has declined and that's one of Cobalions main selling points. All the other traits you mentioned are done better by others and shouldn't be considered for a rank.

 

[Call me 911]

I'll drop the regular Scizor discussion and can understand it's viability rating, but still hold my ground on both others. If you have anything to comment on that, make sure to read the full (edited) version.

 

[Baharoth]

I find it kind of sad how underrated Zapdos is in this topic. I mean its specially defensive set (imo its best set) hard counters Pinsir and Lando-I two very dangerous mons in the current meta along with checking/countering other high rank threats like Talonflame, Thundurus, Mega Scizor etc. And it can also use defog if you want it to. I guess that stuff like Rihyperior is better when it comes to checking Flyspam but they give up on other threats that Zapdos handles so well, not to mention defog.

Someone mentioned that its outperformed by Mandibuzz and Skarm but i realy cant see that. Mandibuzz is hardly worth a teamslot nowadays. Aegi is gone and he is hardly able to handle common threats. He cant switch into LO Exca with rocks up, loses to scarf Ttar, cant stop Pinsir (and dies to CB Talon/Raptor after SR) and is a free switch for Greninja, Keldeo, Azu and other dangerous things. Skarm used to be better on Stall teams but with Magnezone beeing everywhere right now its basicly forced to use Shed Shell limiting its utility. Not to mention that its worse at checking Talonflame and has a harder time dealing with Pinsir now that everyone runs Close Combat. Every Pinsir team out there is prepared to deal with Skarm but who thinks about Zapdos? Nobody. So even if they were equally good in a vacuum, in practise Zapdos is more reliable imo.

Its certainly not the best defoger out there beeing SR weak and beeing unable to deal with some common SR setters but its a great answer to many common threats and pairs nicely with fly weak Megas like Venu or Heracross. It deserves more than a measly B- imo.