Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

[Srn]

Since RotomPoison is doing this, I might as well.

Blissey & Stoutland: Blacklist and Derank

Did you see the shit it spawned? I don't want that to happen again. Outclassed by A rank Pokemon.

Jirachi: B+ ----> A-

Reasons I stated above.

Talonflame: A+ ----> A

Countered/Checked by a decent amount of the meta, with all of the Sand Teams and bird spam counters running wild, this thing has lost it's once amazing role in OU. It's still shines brightly, putting down offensive pressure and forcing switch outs, but we have Zapdos, Rhypherior, Rotom Wash, ScarfZone, Heatran, Lando T, Tyranitar, etc. and most of them are decently popular. Not to mention it's 4x weak to Rocks and extremely frail.

Mew: A ----> A

It's fine where it is. Nothing changed at all after the past few weeks with him.

Pinsir/MGarde/MHera: A+

All play different roles but are all great at what they do. MGarde spams Hyper Voice, runs a lot of movesets, and has an amazing SpA. Hera is POWER and breaks through subs with it's amazing ability. Pinsir has great versatility and has Flying Prio. Also Return is sooo Spammy.

Azumarill: S ----> S++++++++++++

Best poke in the meta. Please make an S+ rank for our god! Azu.

I disagree with mgarde to A+. Its stronk af but that's not enough to warrant A+ ranking. Mons like mhera and chary have actual bulk along with the same level of insane power, but mgarde reliably switches into.....Latios? And even then without 24 defense evs its just 2hko'd by psyshock lol.

Talonflame should stay in A+. With the increase in popularity of mew, stallbreaker talon is a fanfuckingtastic way to deal with it without resorting to ur mega to handle it. Taunt/Wisp/acro/roost w/no item is the set; it beats gliscor and a host of other crap too, including some impressive wallbreakers like char-y. You named all of its counters but really, the only ones that has seen a notable increase in usage is tar and exca, and the increased usage of one inconsistent revenge killer isn't enough to drop tflame. Besides:
+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 257-303 (71.1 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Practically any rock mon not named terrak is a "counter" to talon anyway, and ttar doesn't like switching into CB u-turns. SD sets have also become quite popular, beating former checks like raikou with a simple +2 flare blitz with a jolly spread.
I feel like most players just assume talon is a frail mon (it counters zard y,,,nice n frail) limited sorely to revenge killing and late game cleaning with a CB but not only have the usage of its counters stayed relatively the same, the increased popularity of more efficient sets (SD and stallbreaker) make it far more versatile and difficult to deal with than it was, say, 2 months ago.
Keep dat fkr in A+ pls

 

[Karxrida]

Mega Heracross is the only mega Wallrbreaker that deserves A+. It has the least amount of safe switch-ins (here's the list: Doublade), has actual bulk to switch into things itself and can even tank hits after a CC drop, and has the best matchup against Sand Offense since it can kill both T-Tar and Excadrill in Sand thanks to a nifty Ground resist. It also doesn't require Pursuit-trappers like Mega Medicham/Zard Y unless you really hate Doublade.

That being said, Zard Y should drop to A since it requires more support than Heracross to function (Defog and possible Pursuit trapper) and has several safe switch-ins like Lati@s and Talonflame.

 

[Flamer]

Talonflame isnt moving down anytime soon bud. This guy is similar to Aegi imo in that as soon as the meta adapts to one of its sets, another pops up that fucks shit up for a while until everybody forget about the old ones and they pop back up. As of right now, Talonflame has ~4 extremely viable sets, SD, CB, Stallbreaker and BU, each of these have slight variations within them. You think its safe to bring in your Lando-T when suddenly you get wisped, so you thing its stallbreaker, when suddenly it reveals it's SD one attack and wrecks your team. The main problem is that all of its sets can fit on similar teams, in fact all of them can be found on Balanced and a good deal of them on offense teams. And lets not forget its generally positive matchup against all playstyles, no matter the set. Nominating this to drop is a joke, keep at A+, nothing bar Aegislash has shaped the XY meta as much as this guy has.

 

[AM]

Talonflame has so much untapped potential that it's stupid sometimes. Stallbreaker set, Band, lure sets (which beats those rock types btw), bulk up,etc. In terms of viability, Talonflame is so basic to put on a team and doesn't need that much support that is already by default a necessity in OU. Scarfers aren't even the most reliable of checks when its ability alone bypasses the speed gap between that and the scarf users. Its numerous pros outweighs the cons that are mitigated with basic team building and because of that Talonflame should stay A+.

If we're talking about Victini it should be decided to move up or stay solely on the sets such as SubPup and the Lure/Mixed Attacker sets. It's B+ right now due to the stallbreaker and to a degree choice sets but I think the sub sets can push it to A- because it's a big FU to so much of the tier.

Mag should rise, it's obviously viable based on usage alone and scarf mag checks a bunch of stuff fairly well. No need to state the obvious or add on to the same stuff already said. Scarf Staraptor is ok, Band Staraptor is just absurd to face sometimes and Final Gambit is a pretty hilarious but effective tool for Staraptor. B+ makes more sense for the bird. I also support Wobbuffet to move up of sorts. It shuts down a bunch of stuff consistently and with ample support can do this repeatedly with few problems. C+ is definitely the best rank for it and realistically shouldn't move up higher.

That's all I really can say for now.

 

[Karxrida]

Srn, ofc a +2 stab 120 base power with 1.2 increase would hurt it. Drill has the worse defenses known to man. Although flame shines bright like a diamond to stall break, every single set has ugly scars in it.
It is also weak to rocks, weak to Rock type moves, gets countered by basically every rock type, some Electric types, and even some Steel types. With Scarfs being quite popular, things like Zone, Chomp, and Lando T check it. Also I can't see how it COUNTERS Zard X. It checks iirc. Anyways, 78/71/69 bulk is SOOO favorable, right? No.
Too many flaws, has a hard time setting up, not enough good. Bring it down to A.

Excadrill's defenses aren't that bad due to its high HP stat.

On Talonflame, you seem to be forgetting that Stealth Rock doesn't stop it from being an amazing Revenge Killer; it only needs 1 HP to Brave Bird something since it's difficult to out-prioritize it. Talonflame's counters are also very easy to lure out and deal with thanks to U-turn, or Talonflame can take care of them by itself using different EV spreads to speed creep or running Natural Gift/Will-O-Wisp. I'd actually support it moving up if anything because of how good and versatile it is.

Edit: Fuck it, nominating Talonflame for S for the reasons Flamer and AM mentioned.

 

[Albacore]

I've recently tried out Stallbreaker Talonflame and the amount of pain it causes stall teams is pretty astounding, not to mention that it checks a bunch of huge threats in the process. It's definitely Talonflame's best set right now, and a huge boon for balanced teams and even semi-stall teams, and if one set makes it worthy of A+ it's this one.

Talonflame for S on the other hand is pretty stupid, it's really not that easy to fit on teams since none of its roles are anywhere near irreplacable... we have stallbreakers and revenge killers already. If you want to use the stallbreaker set, unless you need Talonfalme's perks (typing which lets it counter a few things+prio recovery+speed) you're usually better off using Mew as a stallbreaker, if you want to use the band set (which is really not very good atm tbh) that role is usually better off served by a scarfer, etc etc. It's fine in A+ but it's nowhere near S.

Kinda confused as to why everyone is calling Starmie an offensive spinner, since I thought it was established that its best set, and the reason it was B+ in the first place, is the defensive set. As for it moving to A-, I agree, for the exact same reason I want Jirachi to move to A- : these 2 Pokemon are staples of current stall, even more so than Chansey and Skarmory. Every single good current stall team I've seen runs either Jirachi or Doubalde, most likely the former. Which is understandable since it counters the huge threat to stall that is MGardevoir, as well as dealing with other stuff like Clefable and Latios and just taking tons of special hits from the likes of Thundurus and Greninja, and filling Wishpassing duties while it does it.

Starmie is, if anything, even more common and valuable on stall teams than Jirachi, and has pretty much become the hazard remover of choice for defensive teams. It even does this without removing your own hazards (pretty nice since you don't have to go though the whole hassle of switching back to your rock setter and getting rocks back up therefore giving a bunch of free turns to your opponent which he can easily abuse), but it's also basically required on any team that relies on hazard stacking, and it also counters the big threat that is Keldeo which is pretty nice.

Basically, Jirachi and Starmie are 2 of the most defining Pokemon on Stall at the moment and deserve to be ranked alongside if not higher than Chansey and Skarmory, given that there are at least as important to the playstyle overral.

Edit : Also support Lando-T for S but I already went over this so I don't feel like repeating myself.

 

[Srn]

Srn, ofc a +2 stab 120 base power with 1.2 increase would hurt it. Drill has the worse defenses known to man. Although flame shines bright like a diamond to stall break, every single set has ugly scars in it.
It is also weak to rocks, weak to Rock type moves, gets countered by basically every rock type, some Electric types, and even some Steel types. With Scarfs being quite popular, things like Zone, Chomp, and Lando T check it. Also I can't see how it COUNTERS Zard X. It checks iirc. Anyways, 78/71/69 bulk is SOOO favorable, right? No.
Too many flaws, has a hard time setting up, not enough good. Bring it down to A.

When did I say it counters zard x lmao, i said the bulky sets counter char-y. lrn2read :[
Besides, altho 78/71/69 bulk doesn't seem like much reliable recovery and solid defensive typing is gr8.
The only steel type its countered by is tran (and empoleon?). Not "some," just one. Not to mention that even defensive tran isn't even a counter, it loses to bulk up+taunt.

Anyways, I think its time to move Lando-T to S rank.
Lets assess its sets:
Defensive: Checks fucking billions of physical threats, sets rocks, pivots, and have offensive presence all in one mon. I think its self explanatory what it checks, and it checks SO MANY MONS HOLY FUCK.
Choice Scarf: An amazing revenge killer with actual bulk that actually maintains uses as a pivot, and can definitely bluff a defensive set as well. This scarfer isn't weak either, 145 base attack STAB EQ's hurt and it can u-turn out of ground immunities. Can also run superpower to revenge kill even m-gyara, which is huge cuz m-gyara is so fkin difficult to revenge kill
Double Dance: Imo the most overlooked and the sexiest set. After a rock polish not even exca, thundy, or any scarfer can revenge kill you, and you can just toss around adamant STAB EQ's coming off of 145 base attack to clean (and stone edge too, giving u nice edgequake coverage). Swords Dance on the other hand dents the fk out of everything, and is easy to pair with mons like char-x to pressure the hell out of common counters like slowbro. Seriously slowbro does not appreciate taking +2 earthquakes, and lando-T can live a scald with atleast 25% to spare. It's not even difficult to set up either, with intimidate and leftovers its easy as shit to set up a rock polish or swords dance and proceed to do your job. Also this set runs leftovers so its even easier to bluff defensive.
This isn't even all the sets it can run; Dekzeh used Power Herb Fly against CTC in a frontier match iirc, and I've seen a few SubSD sets around which can beautifully set up on mew and gliscor. If you felt like it you could throw a pinch berry in there too :O
It also fits into the meta nearly perfectly atm; with all the flyspam and excadrills around lando-t stands out as an excellent answer to both, no matter what set it runs. Its stats are well above average, with an outstanding 145 base attack, and its movepool is just big enough for it to accomplish everything it needs to. Ability is incredibly useful and lando-t would be so much worse without it. I think its notable that every single set can to an extent perform the same defensive role the pivot set can.

Lando-t fits on practically any kind of team, from balance to offense to volturn to stall. Lets look at the definition of S rank for a sec:

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

From defensive pivot to revenge killer to excellent and overlooked late game cleaner, lando-t practically defines versatile.
It fits on practically any kind of team and has a superb risk:reward ratio.
It has some common weaknesses, mostly water, but that's certainly patched up by a ridiculous number of positive traits.

TL; DR Can run many sets (pivot, revenge, clean) and perform each effectively, excellent in the current meta, and fits into many teams easily.
Lando-T for S

 

[Immortal]

Mega Heracross is the only mega Wallrbreaker that deserves A+. It has the least amount of safe switch-ins (here's the list: Doublade), has actual bulk to switch into things itself and can even tank hits after a CC drop, and has the best matchup against Sand Offense since it can kill both T-Tar and Excadrill in Sand thanks to a nifty Ground resist. It also doesn't require Pursuit-trappers like Mega Medicham/Zard Y unless you really hate Doublade.

That being said, Zard Y should drop to A since it requires more support than Heracross to function (Defog and possible Pursuit trapper) and has several safe switch-ins like Lati@s and Talonflame.

I'm fine with Hera going up but disagree on charizard y dropping, the fact that chansey, the best way to check it, has really dropped in popularity due to being overly passive has worked wonders for it. It also beats many top pokemon including common walls such as ferrothorn, slowbro and mega venusaur with absolute ease. It of course has great power that makes it very difficult to switch into. It can come in on scarf lando T who is locked on anything but Stone Edge and get the guaranteed OHKO and outspeeds and has a 93% chance to OHKO the defensive set as well. Speaking of Heracross, it fears switching in to rock blast but ouspeeds and OHKOs. it even beats greninja 1v1 as long as it has like 60-70% hp left. Defensively it has good bulk and reliable recovery along with what is actually pretty good defensive typing outside of the rocks weakness. Also the ability to change the opponent's weather is nice. Needing a pursuit trapper and defog/spin support just isnt a big deal because it has great synergy with pokemon that can provide those things anyway and I have always found them very easy to fit on a team with it. Charizard Y is a great and very threatening pokemon overall and in my opinion the meta shifting away from passive pokemon has only helped it. Keep Charizard Y A+

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

Talonflame isnt moving down anytime soon bud. This guy is similar to Aegi imo in that as soon as the meta adapts to one of its sets, another pops up that fucks shit up for a while until everybody forget about the old ones and they pop back up. As of right now, Talonflame has ~4 extremely viable sets, SD, CB, Stallbreaker and BU, each of these have slight variations within them. You think its safe to bring in your Lando-T when suddenly you get wisped, so you thing its stallbreaker, when suddenly it reveals it's SD one attack and wrecks your team. The main problem is that all of its sets can fit on similar teams, in fact all of them can be found on Balanced and a good deal of them on offense teams. And lets not forget its generally positive matchup against all playstyles, no matter the set. Nominating this to drop is a joke, keep at A+, nothing bar Aegislash has shaped the XY meta as much as this guy has.

You make it seem like it's a based god who should be in S rank, when it's not. I'm gonna say it again.

MMan, Rhypherior, Raikou, Sand Rush Excadrill, TTar, Heatran, MAero, Scarfchomp, ScarfZone, Rotom W, MAggron.
Those all check/counter Tflame. Each one counters it's own special set, or multiple, maybe even all. Also:

Frail
Weak to rocks
Weak to Prio
Weak to common SE moves
Countered by a plethora of pokes
Checked by a plethora of pokes
Weak to scarf users
Nice 81 attack

But;

Stallbreaker set is good, sadly you guys only talk about SD and Stallbreaker.
Banded is good also, but all rock types laugh at it.
Needs little support, it's more of a "use and destroy" thing
You don't really need it after a select Pokemon is gone

Tflame is the best birdspam poke out there, not being outclassed at all, but has gnashing flaws that cripple it majorly. But, these valid one-sided arguments are well rounded. I still think it would be cool in A.

 

[Flamer]

You make it seem like it's a based god who should be in S rank, when it's not. I'm gonna say it again.

MMan, Rhypherior, Raikou, Sand Rush Excadrill, TTar, Heatran, MAero, Scarfchomp, ScarfZone, Rotom W, MAggron.
Those all check/counter Tflame. Each one counters it's own special set, or multiple, maybe even all. Also:

Frail
Weak to rocks
Weak to Prio
Weak to common SE moves
Countered by a plethora of pokes
Checked by a plethora of pokes
Weak to scarf users
Nice 81 attack

But;

Stallbreaker set is good, sadly you guys only talk about SD and Stallbreaker.
Banded is good also, but all rock types laugh at it.
Needs little support, it's more of a "use and destroy" thing
You don't really need it after a select Pokemon is gone

Tflame is the best birdspam poke out there, not being outclassed at all, but has gnashing flaws that cripple it majorly. But, these valid one-sided arguments are well rounded. I still think it would be cool in A.

.......
You just listed 10 mons that the majority of lose to multiple sets. Of those 10, only Washtom and Magnezone can consistently do their job, and both of those can easily be weakened and beaten by the SD set. You then proceed to list a bunch of cons that have little to no effect on Talonflame, "Weak to Scarf mons" "Weak to Priority"....... Seriously? Of all of those, only relative frailty and a rocks weakness hold it back, and even then its not very much, nothing in the tier apart from maybe Megados has an easier time setting up and sweeping than this thing. idk if you've even used anything other than CB because that appears to be what you're basing your argument on but you clearly look at it on face value rather than what it actually does.

 

[yummynbeefy]

Im a bit surprised to not see roserade even considered on this list and yet quite a few other pokemon i feel are less worthy are on it

Pretty good list overall though, interesting read

 

[Aragorn the King]

Im a bit surprised to not see roserade even considered on this list and yet quite a few other pokemon i feel are less worthy are on it

Pretty good list overall though, interesting read

Roserade was actually just recently demoted for not having a real niche in OU. Yes, it's an offensive grass/poison type that hits really hard, but venusaur's defenses are what makes it much better most of the time.

Also I'm just curious what mons you think are less worthy, since if they're really worse than Roserade, they shouldn't be ranked at all.

 

[yummynbeefy]

Well im a tad confused why entei is so high, and why mantine is even on the list, are there specific pokemon that they check or something? also whats tangrowth's main niche in OU?

EDIT : What is gorebyss's niche as well?

 

[Slashari]

Well im a tad confused why entei is so high, and why mantine is even on the list, are there specific pokemon that they check or something? also whats tangrowth's main niche in OU?

EDIT : What is gorebyss's niche as well?

• Entei has Espeed and can spread burns while also hitting hard with Sacred Fire.
• Mantine can Defog and beats stuff like Zard Y and most Gyarados variants (I think there's some other stuff I'm missing as well).
• Tangrowth is bulky as hell, has Regenerator, and can run a pretty cool AV set.
• Gorebyss can pass Shell Smash boosts.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Well im a tad confused why entei is so high, and why mantine is even on the list, are there specific pokemon that they check or something? also whats tangrowth's main niche in OU?

EDIT : What is gorebyss's niche as well?

Entei is a really good physical attacker, thanks to its access to Sacred Fire, which a) is powerful, and b) is able to beat some of its checks and counters with its 50% burn rate. It also has adequate coverage (EdgeQuake) + powerful priority, which makes it a really nice band user.

Mantine is on the list because of its ability to check Charizard-Y, Keldeo, and Landorus-I while being a reliable Defog user.

Tangrowth can either be an assault vest pivot, capable of dealing massive damage with Leaf Storm + hitting possible switch ins with Knock Off, EQ, HP fire, or rock slide, or a physically defensive mon, capable of walling pretty much every physical attacker without a fire/flying/bug/poison/ice move, never dying thanks to all of its recovery options (synthesis, leech seed, regenerator, giga drain, leftovers), and ability to put mons asleep. It's not the best, but it does have a niche over amoong/venu, in that it handles drill a lot better (it resists eq while they don't).

Gorebyss has access to Shell Smash and Baton Pass, so it's capable of turning any attacker really scary within two turns. It also is powerful and relatively physically bulky, so it isn't entirely useless outside of passing (unlike smeargle).

 

[Celticpride]

A few quick hits that may end up being not so quick:

Mega Tyranitar can definitely run Stone Edge/Fire Punch/Ice Punch/Dragon Dance. It's only walled typing-wise by Keldeo and Poliwrath, and I'm thinking not to many things can handle it at +1. Slowbro gets 2HKOed by Stone Edge and Skarm does as well. It also still has the option of running Crunch or Earthquake instead of Fire Punch for other coverage. I said the same thing on page 6 of this thread and it's still true now. Tyranitar has so many coverage options it has very few answers. Stone Edge, Dragon Dance and two coverage moves is a pretty great set for it to run. It can stay in A.

Staraptor could go to B+. It can function outside of BirdSpam with CB and Scarf sets, and it's STABs and CC allow you to hit everything very hard. It also has two decent abilities and U-Turn to round off the set. I know most people only think about it and see it with Talonflame and Mega Pinsir, but it can actually fit on a lot of different offensive teams. It can form a very effective VoltTurn Intimidate core with Mega Manectric and Lando-T.

Magnezone is more effective than Goth because it can be used on more different teams, and can effectively and efficiently kill several annoying Steels in the tier. ScarfZone also can pull it's weight outside of trapping Steels, it's a helpful check against BirdSpam and certain Thundy-I sets. Goth can't pull it's weight outside of stall breaking on balance teams. Magnazone fits in the A- rank.

Starmie is great in the current Meta, it's the top spinner along with Exca. It has a good defensive set, and it can also pull off Greninja-lite with the addition of spinning. It could be an A- candidate.

Roserade is not that great currently in OU yummynbeefy. It falls a little short in the speed category and isn't particularly bulky. It is great in UU, however ;)

Talon is freaking great. It belongs in A+. The stallbreaker set is great and SD takes great advantage of all the switches it causes. I'm not a huge fan of Natural Gift Talon, but it can be used I guess. However, I see people selling the CB set short. Yeah, it's the easiest to straight up handle and is probably the most boring of it's sets. But CB Talon is still probably the top Revenge Killer in OU. It revenges virtually every set-up sweeper to some degree outside of Mega Tyranitar and Mega Amphy. That should not be undersold. Also, if you don't have one of the hard counters it will eff your team over, no ifs ands or buts.

Victini could move up to A-. SubPup is a great set, and StallTini is very useful for the reasons stated above. However, similar to Talon, don't sleep on the good ole CB set. Between V-Create, Zen Headbutt and Bolt Strike it can punch holes in damn near any team when given the chance (and it's not that hard to find a chance). CB Tini and CB Talon are very similar, they both have shiny new sets. But sometimes the Choice Band and wreck things option can be great too.

Mega Heracross is a set-up from the other Mega wallbreakers for two reasons. One, he handles Sand offense so much better than the other two. Two, he has the best typing (I know, 4x Flying, but that's the only big one) and best overall bulk of the three. Just look at this:

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 304-359 (97.7 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

I mean, that's basically a KO, but it's a SE attack from one of the strongest Psychic types in the tier with a Life Orb and it's a close KO. It's got bulk like that on both sides. It can take a lot of non-SE hits on both sides and retaliate, which is not something the other two can say to the same degree. Against offense it can usually take down something while sacrificing itself. Not to be overlooked when that's its supposed bad play style match-up. It not only wallbreaks against stall, it holes punches against HO and bulky offense alike. Also, the new sub and SD+sub sets allow it to stack up great against offense. That's why Mega Heracross is A+ and the other two are not.

 

[RotomPoison]

A few quick hits that may end up being not so quick:

Mega Tyranitar can definitely run Stone Edge/Fire Punch/Ice Punch/Dragon Dance. It's only walled typing-wise by Keldeo and Poliwrath, and I'm thinking not to many things can handle it at +1. Slowbro gets 2HKOed by Stone Edge and Skarm does as well. It also still has the option of running Crunch or Earthquake instead of Fire Punch for other coverage. I said the same thing on page 6 of this thread and it's still true now. Tyranitar has so many coverage options it has very few answers. Stone Edge, Dragon Dance and two coverage moves is a pretty great set for it to run. It can stay in A.

Staraptor could go to B+. It can function outside of BirdSpam with CB and Scarf sets, and it's STABs and CC allow you to hit everything very hard. It also has two decent abilities and U-Turn to round off the set. I know most people only think about it and see it with Talonflame and Mega Pinsir, but it can actually fit on a lot of different offensive teams. It can form a very effective VoltTurn Intimidate core with Mega Manectric and Lando-T.

Magnezone is more effective than Goth because it can be used on more different teams, and can effectively and efficiently kill several annoying Steels in the tier. ScarfZone also can pull it's weight outside of trapping Steels, it's a helpful check against BirdSpam and certain Thundy-I sets. Goth can't pull it's weight outside of stall breaking on balance teams. Magnazone fits in the A- rank.

Starmie is great in the current Meta, it's the top spinner along with Exca. It has a good defensive set, and it can also pull off Greninja-lite with the addition of spinning. It could be an A- candidate.

Roserade is not that great currently in OU yummynbeefy. It falls a little short in the speed category and isn't particularly bulky. It is great in UU, however ;)

Talon is freaking great. It belongs in A+. The stallbreaker set is great and SD takes great advantage of all the switches it causes. I'm not a huge fan of Natural Gift Talon, but it can be used I guess. However, I see people selling the CB set short. Yeah, it's the easiest to straight up handle and is probably the most boring of it's sets. But CB Talon is still probably the top Revenge Killer in OU. It revenges virtually every set-up sweeper to some degree outside of Mega Tyranitar and Mega Amphy. That should not be undersold. Also, if you don't have one of the hard counters it will eff your team over, no ifs ands or buts.

Victini could move up to A-. SubPup is a great set, and StallTini is very useful for the reasons stated above. However, similar to Talon, don't sleep on the good ole CB set. Between V-Create, Zen Headbutt and Bolt Strike it can punch holes in damn near any team when given the chance (and it's not that hard to find a chance). CB Tini and CB Talon are very similar, they both have shiny new sets. But sometimes the Choice Band and wreck things option can be great too.

Mega Heracross is a set-up from the other Mega wallbreakers for two reasons. One, he handles Sand offense so much better than the other two. Two, he has the best typing (I know, 4x Flying, but that's the only big one) and best overall bulk of the three. Just look at this:

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 304-359 (97.7 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

I mean, that's basically a KO, but it's a SE attack from one of the strongest Psychic types in the tier with a Life Orb and it's a close KO. It's got bulk like that on both sides. It can take a lot of non-SE hits on both sides and retaliate, which is not something the other two can say to the same degree. Against offense it can usually take down something while sacrificing itself. Not to be overlooked when that's its supposed bad play style match-up. It not only wallbreaks against stall, it holes punches against HO and bulky offense alike. Also, the new sub and SD+sub sets allow it to stack up great against offense. That's why Mega Heracross is A+ and the other two are not.

I agree with this as I mentioned it myself except the last part.

Mega Gardevoir can do the same as Heracross. Everything you mentioned can be done by Gardevoir as well, as Gardevoir's physical bulk may not be amazing, it has enough to live 2 Psyshocks from Latios which is the only real physical attack it should be taking. Fairy is also an amazing offensive and defensive typing that grants it s HUGE immunity to Dragon. On the same point, what stops Gardevoir from running Substitute? You can even sub as they switch to Chansey, then Taunt it, then start CMing up and sweep with mono-Fairy coverage (not recommended for obvious reasons, the more practical set would be Sub + Taunt + 2 attacks or Sub 3 attacks)

I plan to ladder for the next OLT cycle and have a Sub Gardevoir team I plan on using, so who knows maybe I'll get some replays to prove it.

 

[Aragorn the King]

I agree with this as I mentioned it myself except the last part.

Mega Gardevoir can do the same as Heracross. Everything you mentioned can be done by Gardevoir as well, as Gardevoir's physical bulk may not be amazing, it has enough to live 2 Psyshocks from Latios which is the only real physical attack it should be taking. Fairy is also an amazing offensive and defensive typing that grants it s HUGE immunity to Dragon. On the same point, what stops Gardevoir from running Substitute? You can even sub as they switch to Chansey, then Taunt it, then start CMing up and sweep with mono-Fairy coverage (not recommended for obvious reasons, the more practical set would be Sub + Taunt + 2 attacks or Sub 3 attacks)

I plan to ladder for the next OLT cycle and have a Sub Gardevoir team I plan on using, so who knows maybe I'll get some replays to prove it.

On paper, I'm not really sure about that set (the second one), since you're either forgoing Focus Miss/HP Ground or Psyshock/Psychic, and by not running either you're gonna either be handled by Heatran or Venusaur really easily. I personally think gard's best set is Psyshock / Psychic | HYPER VOICE [thx Karxrida] | HP Ground / Focus Blast | Taunt / Will-o-Wisp.

Anyway, Gardevoir's defensive answers are limited to basically Victini, Jirachi, Scizor, and Doublade, while Heracross' are limited to just Doublade and Clefable, so I'd say v. stall Hera is better. Garde's better speed makes it slightly better v. offense, but realistically, it's just speed-tying with most of things hera can't outspeed (what's really between 75 and 100 that runs max speed and doesn't have a method of boosting its speed?), and that's really risky. Its Dragon immunity is huge, i'll totally grant you that, it's just that it's ohkod by most dragons, which makes it sometimes hard to play around them, even if you're immune to their stab moves. I think Gardevoir's lack of bulk + "surplus" of answers (compared to hera) makes it a step down from hera, and thus just A.

 

[Celticpride]

I would be very hesitant to drop Focus Blast or Hidden Power Ground on Garde due to Heatran. I will admit I didn't know Sub Mega Gardy was a thing. I'll have to test it out. Is the EV spread the same as standard Taunt+3 attacks Mega Gardevoir?

 

[Karxrida]

I would be very hesitant to drop Focus Blast or Hidden Power Ground on Garde due to Heatran. I will admit I didn't know Sub Mega Gardy was a thing. I'll have to test it out. Is the EV spread the same as standard Taunt+3 attacks Mega Gardevoir?

Sub doesn't drop Focus Blast/HP Ground, it drops Will-O or Taunt, and I'm pretty sure the EV spread is the same.

Also Aragorn the King, don't you mean that Gardevoir runs Hyper Voice, not Moonblast? :P

 

[Tressed]

Okay, so Mega Houndoom is sitting in C Rank right now, no one seems to notice it's there, and I have no idea what it's doing there. It's pretty quick, which is nice, but it has nothing else going for it. 140 Sp Attack with no boosting item is pretty weak, 75/90/90 bulk isn't exactly good, it's weak to Rocks, and you're bait for Azumarill, Terrakion, Tyranitar, Gyarados, and ZardX, not to mention basically anything with some special bulk to it. The nail in the coffin for me is that, since it's a Nasty Plot user, I have to justify using it over Thundurus or Azelf, both of whom are roughly as powerful as Houndoom, occupy a similar Speed tier, have Taunt, and neither of whom use your Mega slot.

The fact that this thing faces competition from far more gamechanging Megas for a slot, plus being inferior to Thundurus and bloody Azelf of all things, plus that I haven't actually seen anyone actually trying to use this thing in a serious battle makes me question it's inclusion in a rank with mons like Doublade, Bronzong, and Porygon2, who all their small yet useful niches in the tier. Like, I know that usage =/= viability, but I haven't seen or heard any sort of feedback on it at all, haven't watched a replay with it, and haven't played against it before, which means it's either A) bad, B) not worth the effort of making a team where it works, or C) outclassed. Probably some combination of the above.

Unless someone has actually seen Doom in action and can attest to it's usefulness, I'd like to see it drop to D Rank or unranked.

And yes, the timing of this post had some forethought to it. hail Satan :)

 

[Aragorn the King]

Okay, so Mega Houndoom is sitting in C Rank right now, no one seems to notice it's there, and I have no idea what it's doing there. It's pretty quick, which is nice, but it has nothing else going for it. 140 Sp Attack with no boosting item is pretty weak, 75/90/90 bulk isn't exactly good, it's weak to Rocks, and you're bait for Azumarill, Terrakion, Tyranitar, Gyarados, and ZardX, not to mention basically anything with some special bulk to it. The nail in the coffin for me is that, since it's a Nasty Plot user, I have to justify using it over Thundurus or Azelf, both of whom are roughly as powerful as Houndoom, occupy a similar Speed tier, have Taunt, and neither of whom use your Mega slot.

The fact that this thing faces competition from far more gamechanging Megas for a slot, plus being inferior to Thundurus and bloody Azelf of all things, plus that I haven't actually seen anyone actually trying to use this thing in a serious battle makes me question it's inclusion in a rank with mons like Doublade, Bronzong, and Porygon2, who all their small yet useful niches in the tier. Like, I know that usage =/= viability, but I haven't seen or heard any sort of feedback on it at all, haven't watched a replay with it, and haven't played against it before, which means it's either A) bad, B) not worth the effort of making a team where it works, or C) outclassed. Probably some combination of the above.

Unless someone has actually seen Doom in action and can attest to it's usefulness, I'd like to see it drop to D Rank or unranked.

And yes, the timing of this post had some forethought to it. hail Satan :)

I'll summon Vertex to talk about it, since ik he likes it. btw, jtlyk,

The nail in the coffin for me is that, since it's a Nasty Plot user, I have to justify using it over Thundurus or Azelf, both of whom are roughly as powerful as Houndoom, occupy a similar Speed tier, have Taunt, and neither of whom use your Mega slot.

a) offensive Azelf (with np) isn't really viable, and b) Mega Doom, or at least Vertex's variant, uses Taunt.

Other than that idrk about doom since the only time i tried it is was on a really gimmicky team with sunny day memento whimsicott (it was awesome btw).

Sub doesn't drop Focus Blast/HP Ground, it drops Will-O or Taunt, and I'm pretty sure the EV spread is the same.

Also Aragorn the King, don't you mean that Gardevoir runs Hyper Voice, not Moonblast? :P

ugh. lol. at least i got the name of a fairy-type move right.

 

[Siggu]

Okay, so Mega Houndoom is sitting in C Rank right now, no one seems to notice it's there, and I have no idea what it's doing there. It's pretty quick, which is nice, but it has nothing else going for it. 140 Sp Attack with no boosting item is pretty weak, 75/90/90 bulk isn't exactly good, it's weak to Rocks, and you're bait for Azumarill, Terrakion, Tyranitar, Gyarados, and ZardX, not to mention basically anything with some special bulk to it. The nail in the coffin for me is that, since it's a Nasty Plot user, I have to justify using it over Thundurus or Azelf, both of whom are roughly as powerful as Houndoom, occupy a similar Speed tier, have Taunt, and neither of whom use your Mega slot

You forgot to mention the worst issue of it: Its ability, the one that lets it hit hard, requires sun to be used, and if you are using Mega Houndoom, your only sun setter is... Ninetales, which says enough that it has virtually no ability, unless you decide to set up Sunny Day (Which means either no NP or bad coverage).

 

[Vert]

mega doom should actually move to b- rank. ill right why tomorrow cuz I don't got time now my niggas.

 

[Slashari]

After using Jirachi some, I'd definitely support moving it to A-. It's just as annoying as ever to play against and can run a wide range of equally viable sets, like SpDef, SubToxic, Scarf, CM, etc. making it quite unpredictable. It's a great check to some top tier mons right now, namely Mega Garde, Heracross, non-Dark Pulse Greninja, Cefable, and the Latis. It provides excellent team support through passing Wishes (it's the only WishPasser in the tier with access to U Turn as well, which is great for momentum), spreading status, using Healing Wish, wearing stuff down with Iron Head, and being annoying as fuck to face. It's definitely a great utility mon right now and I would say its effect on the current meta is more on par with things like Breloom and Skarmory up in A- rather than the things in B+.