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XY Sprite Project (read 1st post): Pixel Perfect

Discussion in 'Smeargle's Studio' started by Layell, Aug 5, 2013.

  1. TrainerSplash

    TrainerSplash

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    Great job Cynical, but I can't tell if you're talking about just the tail or the tail and leaf hands. We should probably work on the leaf hands though as the red ones should be longer than the green ones. The tail looks perfect but a little too tall towards the red part on the top front sprite.

    As for my Megagross here is my starting so far. Pieces and history of how I made them are on the right. current product on the left.
    [​IMG]
  2. Layell

    Layell Alas poor Yorick, I knew him, Peter Gabriel too!
    is an Artistis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
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    Hmm ok a few things.

    Typhlito I'm not sure the tail on Helio is the best it could be, I find that most BW animations tend to just wave the tail as a person might wave a protest sign.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I am fine with mostly everything else but idk the tail is a bit weird for me. Just because the tail doesn't move that way in the games doesn't mean it cannot be moved that way. We don't see the same level of movement on Pokemon like those in their xy models either.

    Sceptile is looking fine, I will of course not go into animating it or anything until I see the shiny in ORAS and have seen the model up close.

    I also asked axl to fix my mega swampert lineart a bit regarding fins and spikes but then he went and finished most of it oh well

    [​IMG]

    There is a clear orange difference in reference photos so I am fine with that part, we don't have good enough back references. I learned from XY pre-release I'm not going to touch backs if I'm not confident I have enough references. Also just to be clear I am certainly interested in getting the ORAS fronts all completed well before release. PS will need that, and ideally we complete fronts for all pre-release ones before the giant leaks occur.
  3. Kyuzeth

    Kyuzeth

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    Great job on the tail! You're definitely right on the amount of leaves, but the more they advance to the tip, the more and more narrow they become. The original tails did have this, but this version doesn't, sadly.
    A final note about the tail: After comparing the sprite to the Sugiart, I feel like the red tip at the end of Mega Sceptile's tail is too short on the backsprite, so either the tail needs to be bent a bit more or we need to make the leaves smaller and the point larger. Not sure how we could work that out, but hey, I'm sure we can get it fixed, at least somewhat.

    Here's Mega Sceptile's Sugimori artwork, for reference.
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]

    By the way, about the head, Typhlito: if the head on the frontsprite needs to be altered, then I suggest making a completely new one from scratch, since the official sprites' heads indeed look like they curve a bit too far.
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  4. Legitimate Username

    Legitimate Username YAY I'M HELPING!
    is an Artistis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  5. Speed-X

    Speed-X

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    Huh, I didn't actually notice any difference between the two until you pointed it out there! Yeah, that does look a little strange...I'll see what I can do! Then after that have to work on finishing the Mega Ttar back. XD
  6. TrainerSplash

    TrainerSplash

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    Oh appearntly Legitimate Username is working on a Megagross (pun intended). Is it fine if I help with the coloring on it? the legs are bothering me. we also need to add the "jet legs" onto the back of it.
  7. Legitimate Username

    Legitimate Username YAY I'M HELPING!
    is an Artistis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Yeah, feel free to edit the coloring on it, TrainerSplash, I'm not really happy with how it looks now and was planning to work on it eventually anyway. I'd definitely appreciate the help. The outlines especially should be colored in the lighter areas rather than being solid black. Another thing that's been bothering me, if you're willing to give it a try, is how the claws on the bottom right are more curved than the others, it would look better if it matched with the other three.

    I think that it would be best to hold off on adding the back legs until the backsprite has been done, since that'll give a better view of the anatomy and make the frontsprite easier to construct.
  8. The Cynical Poet

    The Cynical Poet

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    Here's another Mega Sceptile update:
    [​IMG]
    I've tried to more accurately portray how the leaves grow as they leave the tip. I think I've got it down, but like always, anyone is free to tinker with the sprite if they wish. I also extended the tip of the tail on the back sprite a bit more.
  9. toxicroaker

    toxicroaker

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    Judging from the artwork (shown above) it looks like the red part at the end of his tail should be longer on the front and especially the back sprite.
  10. TrainerSplash

    TrainerSplash

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    well I'm going to be editing these sprites (sceptile and metagross). I'll be streaming it here. Hopfully I can fix those metagross claws and fix sceptile more.
  11. TrainerSplash

    TrainerSplash

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    Well, here are all the edits I got done. the picture kinda explains it them selves. But what isn't said on this picture is that I slightly changed the color pallet of the stripped part of sceptile's tail. It shouldn't be dark green like on the original. The only parts of him that turn dark green is his chest and the christmas tree. So I turned the green stripes into his normal skin color, but it looks hardly noticeable. On both Megagrosses to the right have their crosses changed to a new shade of gold, which was taken from Starmie. Note that I have not tested how much colors are used so I have not idea if it's above or below 15 colors. Back to Mega Sceptile, the top left is the current one and the bottom is the new one, both have the tail color change. I will also like to thank anyone who stopped by and see how I was doing, even without actually saying anything, I liked it when you guys just saw how I was doing.
    [​IMG]

    Edit: I'm now working on my own version of mega sableye as I find it to be very easy to make.
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  12. The Cynical Poet

    The Cynical Poet

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    You did a pretty good job on the new head, TrainerSplash! Though I think the head needs a bit more QC.

    Anyways, I have an update for Mega Sceptile's tail. I went back to the bushy design because that was the most polished, in my opinion. But I made sure to make some changes to it, such as the amount of leaves and how much they stick out:
    [​IMG]
    Other updates include shortening the tail to increase the size of the red tip, and trying to fix up the new head. I included both the old and new head, just in case we need to make more changes to it.
    Kyuzeth likes this.
  13. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Duck Hunting Dawg
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    Nice job on the head! But dont you think hes not turning his head far enough this time? If you turn it a bit more, you could add more detail to its face without making him look like he snapped his head again.

    Heres the head pose I was thinking of.

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]


    As for the tail, I think it looks great now. Dont notice anything noticably off with it now :]

    edit: Can you see this one?

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
    The Cynical Poet likes this.
  14. TrainerSplash

    TrainerSplash

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    Thanks for the feedback guys. I can possibly add more to the head, I even thought it wasn't look too far. Who new such a simple thing would need so much edits haha. However Typhilito your picture in the orange box doesn't show up so I can't really tell how you were thinking the head should be. As for Sableye, I can't tell how to make the giant ruby. I'll come out with a report on it in a bit.
  15. The Cynical Poet

    The Cynical Poet

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    I think I'm starting to get its head on the right track. It still needs QC, especially with its neck, but it's the right direction I think.
    [​IMG]
    Typhlito likes this.
  16. TrainerSplash

    TrainerSplash

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    Typhlito I can see it this time, and yeah that's a good example.
    As for Cynical's new head. I don't think it matches at all with out current back sprite. was the oen one you made from scratch or and edit of a base? We could probably take the the one I made (which was abase of normal sceptile) and slightly alter it. Sceptile has an odd headshape so I don't hope to get this guy done down and easy
    .
    Shiruba likes this.
  17. The Cynical Poet

    The Cynical Poet

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    I respectfully disagree with you, Trainersplash. I feel that, at the angle the current back sprite's head is at, this new head is just fine. And it is a custom, yes.
    Anyways, here is an update on the new head:
    [​IMG]
    I rearranged where the eyes were, extended the neck out, made the head more slim, and experimented with how far the mouth goes.
  18. TrainerSplash

    TrainerSplash

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    Looks a lot better, but I'm still indifferent on it, it still looks drastically different. I do like like though I just think it could be done better. If anyone else likes it than I'll accept it. Keep up the nice work!
  19. The Cynical Poet

    The Cynical Poet

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    Another slight update. I made the back of the neck a bit less clunky, fixed the front ear, and shortened the red stripe.
    [​IMG]
    Also, I edited the back sprite some. The back sprite is now 96 pixels wide again, with a slightly longer arm, tail, and red tip.
  20. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Duck Hunting Dawg
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    Maybe you could try making his face longer. I think his face is a little on the flat side. It would give you more room for its face too. Also, remember to adjust the red strip so it can go along the back of his neck. The strip has to curve a bit to do so. Hope this helps make it even better.
  21. princessofmusic

    princessofmusic soprano
    is an Artist

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    We made it to the centennial page at last and nobody died. Great.

    Funny story, between Monday and right now, I noticed that Spritzee's non-animated sprites didn't match the animated ones. My bad. @__@ I've exported and edited the correct versions into my update post, so everything's fine.

    Before I go, here's some last-minute feedback for the three musketeers: Kyuzeth TrainerSplash The Cynical Poet

    The current Mega Sceptile looks decent, but I personally don't like it. Why? To me, it looks obviously like the sprites are made up of a bunch of different parts. This isn't good. You may disagree, but my personal standpoint is this: good spriting has less in common with a collage, and more in common with a traditional painting or a sculpture. This isn't the first time I've said this, but the most well-made sprites have a sense of depth and form. They look solid. If you need examples of what I'm referring to, look no further than just about anything that user aXl has made, including the (high quality) Barbaracle QC on the previous page. The things in my update post are also generally decent examples. This is what I'm looking for.

    If you're still not buying what I'm selling, I dug up a pixel tutorial here: http://finalbossblues.com/form-and-light/ That's one in a very good series of tutorials, and I strongly recommend reading them if you've got the extra time. Granted, the information isn't specific to PKMN-style sprites, but there's a lot of interesting stuff about colour and contrast worth looking at. In any case, that's proof that at least one other artist out there thinks the way I do and I'm not pulling this stuff from the aether.

    With Mega Sceptile specifically, I have doubts about the way the head is turning on the front sprite. While we typically have the pose of the front and back match, it might be worth it in this case to try making it face the other way. The arms are too diagonal and don't connect high enough to the body. The leaf cross looks unnatural. The back sprite's doing a little better, but the leaf cross doesn't look like it's aligned the right way. You guys have been working really well and you're probably attached to what you have, but I frankly think you'd have better luck starting over with a different perspective in mind.

    All of this stuff goes double for Tyrell D. Barnes and Mega Pinsir. I come in peace with this critique, and your sprite should not come in pieces.


    Over the next two weeks, if you'd like me to look at something once I'm back, it's OK to send me a PM.



    and for the love of god if i have you on skype, do not skype me while i'm gone. that includes you Layell


    Anyhow... so long, farewell (auf wiedersehen, adieu)!
  22. The Cynical Poet

    The Cynical Poet

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    Well, you definitely can't please everyone, and that goes double when it comes to politics art. I don't expect a reply (or, at least one right away) seeing as you're going on a vacation, though I feel obligated to reply anyways. When it comes to you feeling that Mega Sceptile looks like it's too composed of individual parts, I both see what you mean and, at the same time, I can't. Perhaps it depends on how one analyzes the sprite, but I see the sprite in both its full figure and its individual parts. The thing about PKMN-styled sprites, primarily with Unova Pokemon, is that they are entirely comprised of individual parts. In that regard, I don't see this as a bad thing myself, but I might be biased as I'm one of the main three people working on this.

    In regards to the Mega Sceptile's head on the front sprite, I too am not completely satisfied with how the head looks on it. Although I feel as if it has gotten a lot better from having the neck of an owl. I can see how the arms on the front sprite might look a bit too diagonal, though I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say the leaf crest looks unnatural. I guess a more detailed explanation would be needed (or a demonstration of what you mean), since the critique seems somewhat vague in terms of what is wrong with it. As for starting over with a different perspective, I'm not sure how I feel about that. In my opinion, the sprite blends in pretty well with official B&W sprites, and needs fine-tuning rather than a complete redirection.

    I appreciate the critique, and I'm trying to analyze it in an unbiased and objective manner.

    Anyways, for a small update on the sprite itself, I've extended M. Sceptile's head by a pixel, readjusting his eyes and mouth accordingly. I also tried to make sure that his stripe was going in the right direction. I'm not sure what all I can do to make the head less flat, though I do agree that it isn't the prettiest thing at the moment.
    [​IMG]
  23. TrainerSplash

    TrainerSplash

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    Thanks for the review, princessofmusic, but I also agree with Cynical. But since I was the one that first started on Mega Sceptile I feel like I hugely biased. I'll make sure to look at your link. And I do think we need to at least redo SOME parts of the front sprite.
    As for Cynical's new sprite it looks nice and way way better. Something about the chest on the back sprite bothers me and I'll edit it soon. I'm not going to go on full explanations to save time unlike the past to post lol.
    Again, thanks for the review princess, it means a lot believe it not, as I am not very good sprite TBH
  24. Kyuzeth

    Kyuzeth

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    Thanks for the critique and helpful advice! I know I'm not the best spriter, but I just did what I could to make the sprite better. I know I still have a long way to go compared to aXl, Layell, X-Speed or you, but I'm definitely picking things up by analyzing your sprites. Keep in mind, I'm no spriting genius and I really can't compare myself to the previously listed spriters.

    I've struggled for hours spriting the leaf cross and I know it's still not good enough, but I've had to use several references and none of them were at the exact angle. That's the big problem; I need a clear reference that completely views Mega Sceptile as we intend to make the sprite, either that or I need to wait until November to look at Mega Sceptile's model.
    The arms may look like they connect low to the body, but really, that's just how they're positioned. I just followed the official artwork and in-game screenshots as references; Mega Sceptile just has a really long neck, as I've emphasized in previous posts.

    If we had to redo the sprite, I'd have bittersweet feelings about it; on one hand, the current sprite has been a great experience that got me back into spriting, but on the other hand, I feel like all those hours of hard, meticulous work will be in vain.
    Once again, thanks for the feedback and the helpful tutorial! It's given me more insight on how lighting and shading work on artworks of all sorts, especially the last paragraph is a useful spriting reference.

    Enjoy your vacation!

    EDIT:
    [​IMG]

    Once again, I've tried my hand at QCing the sprite; I've changed the shading on the leaf cross (hope it now looks more natural, still kind of a WIP) and I've brought some fixes to the head. Still needs some work, but hey, it's at least something. The red leaf tips have been elongated as well. The lower left leg on the backsprite (our perspective, Mega Sceptile's lower right leg) has been lengthened by one diagonal pixel as well.
    I hope I've improved the sprite, since I swear, that blasted head took me long enough.
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  25. The Cynical Poet

    The Cynical Poet

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    You just seem to be the saving grace for any flaw on the sprite, I swear. I'm loving the changes that you've made to the head. Something that I noticed on the back sprite, is that its red tail tip shouldn't be covered by the tail leaves. In other words, it should emulate how the tail looks in the front sprite.

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