XY UU Research Week #8

[Mazz]

Welcome, UUers and all those looking for an excellent comp. 'mons experience! A fresh tier means a fresh installment of Research Group!

Keep the following things in mind during every Research Group:

• Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, movepool, and typing and think something up!
• Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
• Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
• Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and / or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.

A few things to clarify:

• Early period means the first three days of the research week, so let's keep the theorymoning to a minimum after. The late period refers to the last four days of the research week, where raw evidence and discussion should become the basis of the thread.
• Sign-Ups close Monday nights (about three and a half days of sign-ups), so be sure to sign up before they close!
• The prizes for Research Week have been decided; winning a research week will grant you half-ops on our IRC channel, #xyuu. Win five, and you get a nomination for a Community Contributor badge.
• You must post a ladder ranking in order to win the above prizes.

This Week's Research Pokemon:

Dugtrio | Froslass | Azelf | Aromatisse
​

How useful are these Pokemon in XYUU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #xyuu as well!

The Research Group Challenge:

In order to participate you must do the following:

• Post here with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
• Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
• Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
• Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us!

The first stage of the challenge will be very relaxed so theorymon will be allowed as long as its backed up by good reasoning. During the later stage, discussion will be expected to be backed up by hard evidence, such as teams, actual sets, and logs. The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder on the alt they registered at the time the challenge ends. Prizes are currently being discussed with higher powers, so hang tight while I find something worth your guys' attention. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in the XYUU Hub Hall of Fame (once it exists).

Current Participants:

 

[En]

Alt: Scarfed Azelf

Pokemon: Azelf

I want to give Azelf a try in UU. Most of my experience with it had been in RU as a scarfer as that tier was seriously lacking in the amount of choice scarf users that were available. I'm hoping to use some other sets other than its bog standard scarfed one.

 

[Bouff]

alt: coochoflochie
pokemon: azelf

i will edit this later but i am way too tired rn to explain my thoughts :L

 

[Patrick1088]

Alt: mr.wonderful_1088_2
Pokemon: aromatisse

It gives bigger wishes than florges and cant be taunted. Everybody goes gaga over florges, but aromatisse is def underrated. Commence tbe era of smelliness!

 

[R. Walton]

Alt: R_W_Test3
Pokemon: Azelf

Doubt I'll actually get anywhere close to winning, but I've wanted to use Azelf for a while and this competition looks fun. Will edit this post (with the set I'm using and other stuff) when I have the time.

Proof of clean alt

 

[Metal Sonic]

alt: Pawn Storm
Pokemon: aromatisse


aromatisse is a boss and good friends of mine use it: great fairy typing, massive bulk, giant wishes and anti-taunt. shes fat and pink. who doesn't love pink blobs?


EDIT: please review replay of the power of Aromatisse
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-113179405

 

[Chronic Smash]

Alt: XB911 (Aromatisse)
Pokemon: Aromatisse

Aromatisse is a very fun pokemon to use, and it's pretty good in RU and UU.

Aromatisse doin' work here: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-113309571

 

[Meru]

I've already done a great deal of discussing the general traits of Aromatisse in other threads, so I'm not going to bother to go into that. However, Hydreigon is now in the tier. Bold Aromatisse should be on the rise, as even with SR up, Aromatisse has a good chance of surviving two LO Iron Tails in a row. However, Bold Aromatisse is 2HKOd by Specs Fire Blast, so Florges might still be the preferred method of handling Hydreigon. Looking to see how it plays out on the ladder.

Alt: Meruuu
Pokemon: Aromatisse

 

[Limitless]

Alt: My Legacy
Pokemon: Azelf

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

Pokemon: Azelf
Alt: Bats Don't Choke

 

[KM]

Alt: Azélf
Pokemon: (azelf)

http://imgur.com/MUtGB9u

 

[Calloflochie]

Alt: Gimme dat CC

Pokemon: Azelf

As for discussion, basically Azelf IS the best available suicide lead in my opinion. Through it's combination of Speed, amazing mixed Attacking Stats and a tremendous Movepool, it has all the necessary tools to be an extremely capable lead. The set I am choosing to run is basically the one I think all true suicidezelf's should run;

Strong Genie (Azelf) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Explosion
- Fire Blast / Knock Off

A set my friend Limitless came up with. SR cause best move in the game, Taunt to stop the opponent using the best move in the game, Explosion to spinblock mons like Blastoise, Tentacruel and Donphan and Fire Blast to hit Forretress but due to it's relatively low usage on the ladder, I think i'll probably stick with Knock Off to try and mess with a few guys Items. But yeah, the only problem I can see with this RW is that the lead Azelf vs Azelf match ups are going to be really frustrating to deal with so hopefully there isn't too many of them :]

 

[Metal Sonic]

I've already done a great deal of discussing the general traits of Aromatisse in other threads, so I'm not going to bother to go into that. However, Hydreigon is now in the tier. Bold Aromatisse should be on the rise, as even with SR up, Aromatisse has a good chance of surviving two LO Iron Tails in a row. However, Bold Aromatisse is 2HKOd by Specs Fire Blast, so Florges might still be the preferred method of handling Hydreigon. Looking to see how it plays out on the ladder.

Alt: Meruuu
Pokemon: Aromatisse

no pls no i'm using your team xD

 

[Lost Soul]

Alt:Save The Venusaurs
Pokemon:Azelf
(possibly might even throw Aromatisse in at some point)

Proof

 

[newfren]

Alt: Tarpmaster
Pokemon: Dugtrio

Dugtrio can trap a whole bunch of crocune counters, and the rest are pretty easily dealt with by mega-mane's overheat or scarf darm. Plus it isn't fucking aromatisse or azelf.

 

[KM]

Yay progress.

http://imgur.com/2doQgt1

so far, sashed np azelf is doing work. its coverage is pretty sick and the amount of damage it can deal to defensive threats that would otherwise wall most special attackers (florges) is pretty legit. It's especially good versus galvantula leads, because most of them, expecting taunt, will bug buzz straight away, allowing you to get the guaranteed 2HKO on them and nullifying sticky web (or just killing them in exchange for web without breaking sash). even after people see psyshock and fire blast, they still might not expect dazzling gleam, and the amount of people who try and predict the psyshock and switch into honchkrow (who's near OHKOd by +0) is pretty insane. same goes for krook, mega-sol, hydreigon, etc. It also has quite a lot of sweeping potential if you choose not to sacrifice it very early game. Most teams only have one or two pokes who can take +2 azelf moves, so once they're weakened it's just a matter of switching into something that you scare out, which is helped significantly by azelf's handy ability.

P.s. sorry for the obnoxious lack of capitalization my right shift key is broken
p.p.s. i'll update with replays, completely spaced on that

 

[iliekmudkipz123456789]

Alt: Nene king
Pokemon: Azelf
Proof of clean alt: http://gyazo.com/53b25fd8ea69045374baec8ec116fd8c

 

[DiscoDucky]

I'm not going to participate (due to time), but I'll give my general impressions.

Dugtrio: Dugtrio is definitely super-underrated atm. With Bulky Elecs and Fire-types floating around in the meta, Dugtrio can easily remove them. The fact that Dugtrio can easily shut down Mega-Houndoom, Mega-Manectric, Darmanitan (locked into something other than U-Turn), and others of the same vein makes it a very interesting.

Froslass: Froslass still functions nicely as a Suicide lead with Spikes + Destiny Bond. However, with the buffs to Knock Off and Defog, I'm not too sure how her role holds out.

Azelf: Still as versatile as ever. It can function as a Lead, Anti-Lead, and sweeper all with very good efficiency.

Aromatisse: Aromatisse is undoubtedly the biggest sleeper threat among the four. With a rise in Heracross and Honchkrow usage, Aromatisse serves as a very strong counter to both. Although its WishPassing skills are largely outclassed by Florges and Umbreon, its RestTalk set is one of the strongest because of Moonblast's lack of immunities as well as Aroma Veil's power to stop Taunts.

 

[Bouff]

ok, so i reached a shitty ranking with the alt that i will post when screenshots are due, but anyways Azelf is pretty much the best suicide lead in the tier. It can definitely pull off some offensive pressure, like Galvantula, but like Smeargle, it can actually do things other than set up hazards and explode, like knock off the opp's item, or prevent them from setting up hazards. it can also go fire blast > knock off if you hate forry but tbh it has never really worked for me.

 

[iliekmudkipz123456789]

User: neneking
FormatEloGXEGlicko-1COILWLT
uu1433791758 ± 66--2130
Got some progress done, though this isn't gonna be my final rank obv, too low lol. So far, Azelf is pretty amazing. He is THE best suicide lead in the tier, being able to act as both a lead and an anti-lead, much like Deoxys-s/d. I like how much Explosion does from this thing though. I pair this up with CM Rachi so that I can turn 2HKOs into OHKO's. I also pair it up with Mega-Manectric and scarf Heracross since they're both fast and powerful. this thing is just so good at supporting the team because of its movepool. I also like how it gets Knock Off for coverage, that's really nice to cripple usual switch-ins like Porygon-2. Overall Azelf is a pretty great mon, although I wish it was a little more bulky so I could run NP effectively lol.

 

[Metal Sonic]

View attachment 12640

not very interested any more but if you can surpass this score then great !

 

[Calloflochie]

Just gonna update a bit since Mazz made it a requirement to do so. Currently sitting at 18-1, my only loss to a DC but Azelf has been absolutely fantastic. With just Stealth Rocks alone paired on such a hyper offensively orientated team, the momentum that it builds is a huge part in why I have such a nice record. With Stealth Rock up so early game, power wallbreakers are easily allowed to break down the checks and counters turning a lot of would be 3HKO and 2HKO'es into 2 and 1HKOes. Furthermore, Azelf does an extraordinary job of baiting out potential spinners and doing a sizable chunk with Explosion while simultaneously spinblocking at the same time, essentially leaving a 6-5 advantage with SR on their side on the field, an obstacle almost impossible to overcome when appropriate offensive pressure is maintained. Even with the increase in the use of defoggers, Azelf still has the option of Taunt and when coupled with other Taunt mons or mons that threaten almost every defogger the tier has to offer, Stealth Rocks can almost always come at the cost of at least 1 pokemon's life.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-114543394

This was a game I had just then (which turns out to be against Metal Sonic which i found out as i was writing this post, kek hi fren) of just what SR can do in order to aid a mon that obviously threatened his team (in Choice Band Victini). After a good lead match up on turn 1 (using Azelf to bait the Sableye to lead so Victini could lead from the front and lay a huge hit) I saw the damage output of V-Create on Slowking, a 3HKO. With this in mind, i decided to immediate get up rocks turning not only the 3HKO on Slowking into a 2HKO but also turning the would be 3HKO on Snorlax into a 2HKO also. A testament to just how effective Stealth Rock is even though at times it seems like such a small amount of damage, the support it brings to teams can again be the difference between winning and losing. So yeah, Azelf is great, I recommend using it and i'll see if i can catch PK before it is too late :]]]]]]

Edit: Added more Azelf sprites to make the post look prettier.

 

[Patrick1088]

Aromtisse is one bulky mon! That's all I have to say. I've been running a great core of Physically Defensive Aromatisse with AV Snorlax and Defog Flygon with an offensive core of Mega Doom/Banded Hera and scarf Shao to good success. This one replay just shows how hard it is to break that core. Fighting types that threaten snorlax are handled by aromatisse. Special attackers like the Nidos have no hope of breaking AV Lax (especially since most are carrying sludge wave over Focus Blast). The ice and dragon weakness of flygon is easily handled by aromatisse and snorlax.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-114678367

 

[KM]

Just gonna update a bit since Mazz made it a requirement to do so. Currently sitting at 18-1, my only loss to a DC but Azelf has been absolutely fantastic. With just Stealth Rocks alone paired on such a hyper offensively orientated team, the momentum that it builds is a huge part in why I have such a nice record. With Stealth Rock up so early game, power wallbreakers are easily allowed to break down the checks and counters turning a lot of would be 3HKO and 2HKO'es into 2 and 1HKOes. Furthermore, Azelf does an extraordinary job of baiting out potential spinners and doing a sizable chunk with Explosion while simultaneously spinblocking at the same time, essentially leaving a 6-5 advantage with SR on their side on the field, an obstacle almost impossible to overcome when appropriate offensive pressure is maintained. Even with the increase in the use of defoggers, Azelf still has the option of Taunt and when coupled with other Taunt mons or mons that threaten almost every defogger the tier has to offer, Stealth Rocks can almost always come at the cost of at least 1 pokemon's life.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-114543394

This was a game I had just then (which turns out to be against Metal Sonic which i found out as i was writing this post, kek hi fren) of just what SR can do in order to aid a mon that obviously threatened his team (in Choice Band Victini). After a good lead match up on turn 1 (using Azelf to bait the Sableye to lead so Victini could lead from the front and lay a huge hit) I saw the damage output of V-Create on Slowking, a 3HKO. With this in mind, i decided to immediate get up rocks turning not only the 3HKO on Slowking into a 2HKO but also turning the would be 3HKO on Snorlax into a 2HKO also. A testament to just how effective Stealth Rock is even though at times it seems like such a small amount of damage, the support it brings to teams can again be the difference between winning and losing. So yeah, Azelf is great, I recommend using it and i'll see if i can catch PK before it is too late :]]]]]]

Edit: Added more Azelf sprites to make the post look prettier.

"my name is meru. hear me roar" times like these make me actually sort of love you col x

also nice lefties crobat

and you'll probably overtake me I sort of fell off the ladder lol. sunfish is an absolute terror and it needs to die for what it does against hyper offense teams :>.

this is the closest replay I have to a look at azelf do work replay. basically, azelf allowed me to eliminate noivern (which was a big threat) and also scout his heracross, even though I probably should have switched. it's a very suicide-y sort of team, though so it works out fine.

edit: lol i forgot to link replay http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-114391661

 

[KM]

Sorry in advance for the double post, but this is probably going to be my last post for this week, as I really don't see my peak rank going much higher. If it does, I'll most likely just update this post.

So, I've found NP azelf to be an extremely potent threat in the metagame. Perhaps the best show of what Azelf can do is in this replay.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-115078863

starting at turn 16 or so. So many people don't expect dazzling gleam on Azelf, so they blindly switch in their honchkrow, krookodile, Mega-absol, or Hydreigon, eagerly awaiting that missed psyshock and the subsequent loss of momentum. As you can see, my first kill with Azelf comes when he switches out his roserade into his Honchkrow and I bop it. Next, he brings in darm, and I know he'll end up killing himself, so I just go for the NP, knowing I can sweep the rest of his team, as I outspeed.

What makes "lead" NP azelf so great is that you don't even have to use it as a lead, or sack it early game - something I didn't really realize for a while. azelf's awesome speed tier and surprise value of nasty plot and sash, combined with a solid defogger like empoleon, mean that you can easily get a late-game sweep or clean-up using him. There are very few pokes who don't get straight OHKO'd by +2 azelf, and many of those that don't can't deal super significant damage in return.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-115058746

In this replay, surprise value and pure damage output let Azelf wrack up a ton of kills. He thinks that his florges is safe, and he ends up getting 2HKO'd (albeit with a lucky crit). However, most people still haven't caught on at this point that azelf can run more than one damaging move, so he loses his esca for free too. Next, his exploud dies to two psyshocks while he breaks my sash - and after I sack azelf to donphan, I get the momentum back in my favor for the rest of my team to clean up.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-115117402

finally, this replay (which was an awesome if somewhat derpy on my part match vs limitless) shows what azelf really can't break through. as soon as I see his team, I know that azelf really isn't going to be all that useful. He's got an spd mew, a slowbro, and a mienshao (which I assumed was scarfed, but actually wasn't). I ended up completely misusing azelf, misunderestimating the damage of fire blast and sacking it to mew for practically nothing at all, but either way, these pokes represent the things that fuck up azelf the most. first of all, fast u-turns, like those of mienshao. Although azelf can still sometimes get one kill, fast u-turns prevent it from killing the one thing faster than it on the opposing team, and often ends up turning azelf into nothing more than a bit of a wall-weakener that dies quite early. Slowbro (and slowking, I suppose) are incredibly annoying, as they take very little damage from even +2 attacks, and scald does quite a lot in return. I try to never lead with azelf when they have a slowbro, because it'll end up just providing damage that's healed off with regenerator later anyway. Finally, SpD mew represents pokes with status moves like t-wave who can easily take one or two of azelf's attacks and completely cripple him. A paralyzed azelf is practically useless on most teams, so it's really important not to play Azelf too early if there's pokes like this still on the field.

I'm not sure whether or not the ranking is based off of the final score or the peak, so I'll just upload the peak for now.

http://imgur.com/2hivT86