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Yanmega (Analysis) [QC 2/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Heracrossed, Apr 28, 2011.

  1. Heracrossed

    Heracrossed

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    [​IMG]
    #469 YANMEGA

    [Overview]

    <p>With its excellent Special Attack, decent Speed, and superb coverage Yanmega is a pokemon that can tear through teams that lack the ability to deal with the two main sets that Yanmega runs. Gifted with two of the best abilities in the game, Yanmega is either able to increase its speed each turn with Speed Boost, outspeeding the entire metagame after one or two boost or, have flawless coverage with one of its attacks with Tinted Lens. The effectiveness of both of Yanmega's main sets play entirely his abilities therefore making him a very predictable Pokemon that can be easily countered but if a team is not prepared for either set, Yanmega could easily rip through teams.</p>

    <p>Yanmega's transition to 5th Generation has been quite unfavorable. He does not learn any new moves and Yanmega finds himself somewhat outclassed by the likes of Volcarona and Venomoth as a special attacking bug due to Quiver Dance. With Sharpedo getting Speed Boost from Dream World and having much better overall coverage, Yanmega can no longer boast being the best Speed Boost user. In addition the now prominent weather also has not been favorable to Yanmega. With all the abilities doubling speed Yanmega finds himself outspeed, requiring two turns of Speed Boosts to outrun threats such as Chlorphyll sweepers and Excadrill.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Attacking Lead
    move 1: Protect
    move 2: Bug Buzz
    move 3: Air Slash
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ground
    item: Focus Sash / Life Orb
    ability: Speed Boost
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Most effectively used as a lead before SR can get thrown up since it severely hinders Yanmega.
    • Protect once to ensure you get the stage increase from Speed Boost and then you outspeed all non-boosted Pokemon in the metagame, including Scarf Abusers. (sans Garchomp)
    • Focus Sash is there to allow Yanmega to stay alive and get the 2HKO. Life Orb if you don't feel like using Yanmega as a lead.
    • Even at 1 HP Yanmega can be deadly.
    • An alternative set sees Yanmega using 104 Def EVs allow Yanmega to survive a +2 Extreme Speed from Lucario and hit back with Hidden Power. It also gives Yanmega enough Def to survive LO Bullet Punches from Scizor, a common counter thought to be a 2HKO but instead Yanmega survives and is able to 2HKO with Air Slash.
    • But Def EVs can be placed in Spe to allow Yanmega to outspeed random threats, especially with the weather speed boosters around.
    • Can 2HKO Ninetales (HP Ground) and Politoed (Bug Buzz), allowing it to take down common weather leads allowing for control of weather. [ damage calcs to be added after QC checks ]
    • Bug Buzz and Air Slash are mandatory STABS that hit hard and are only resisted by a small handful (Skarmory, Heatran). Note: This is only Modest Yanmega, Timid fails to 2HKO Politoed.
    • HP Ground is good to hit all of the Fires that threaten Yanmega, especially Heatran who otherwise walls this set. However, HP Fire is a good alternative due to the overwhelming popularity of Ferrothorn (but its also 2HKOed by Bug Buzz).
    • This set is also not as good as it was last Gen due to the fact that there are a ton more bulky pokemon in this metagame, compared to last and Yanmega can't reliably revenge kill mid-health sweepers since common sweepers are not as frail.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Having a Rapid Spinner is ESSENTIAL for Yanmega due to the fact that he is x4 weak to Stealth Rock and having those pointed rocks up really hinders his ability to late-game sweep since it breaks his Focus Sash, if using the Attacking Lead set, but losing 50% is bad anyway.
    • Decent Synergy with Starmie (due to rapid spin) or fast fighting types since they can take down the things that wall Yanmega such as Blissey.
    • Could run Timid over Modest but there is no need since you are constantly boosting Speed and the extra power that Modest packs is much more reliable in the long run.
    • Hypnosis, but not as reliable as Protect. The idea of hoping you get the sleep to preserve Focus Sash.

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Bug Buzz
    move 2: Air Slash
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Ground / Fighting
    move 4: Giga Drain / Shadow Ball / U-Turn
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Tinted Lens
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Not resisted by anyone, therefore there is no safe switch-in, a feat that no other choice user can claim.
    • EV Spread is obvious.
    • Bug Buzz/Air Slash mandatory STAB, similar to previous set just without Protect for obvious reason.
    • Last spot can be used based on what your team needs.
    • Giga Drain is the best option especially with the buff it got this gen, hitting bulky waters and ground types while regaining some lost health.
    • Heatran 2HKO'd by HP Fighting since they carry Balloon most of the time but it is also 2HKO'd by Air Slash, so the decision on whether to run Ground or Fighting really is about what you'd rather hit. Plus Air Slash is safer since due to team preview, a Heatran switch can be seen and predicted.
    • Shadow Ball has redundant coverage with Bug Buzz, but is the next strongest special attack
    • U-Turn is good for scouting but lacks the power due to it being a Physical attack and therefore gets no Specs boost.

    [Other Options]

    • HP Fighting
    • HP Rock
    • Roost is an option since Yanmega's lead switch can force switches and allow for surprising recovery, especially if the opponent switches to a priority abuser to negate all Yanmega's speed boosts.
    • Tailwind could be used to boost Yanmega's Speed on a Tinted Lens set. Hopefully scare the opponent out with the threat of Specs but go for unpredictability with Tailwind, boosting Yanmega's speed and allowing for a sweep for three turns. This should be paired with Life Orb if anything to get that extra boost on attacks.
    • Scarf could be used over Specs if you would rather hit and run since Yanmega's base 95 Spe doesnt allow it to outspeed the threats it is meant to kill.
    • Endure/Reveral is gimmicky but could do some damage.

    [Checks and Counters]

    • The deadly 4x weakness to SR
    • Leads that resist his STAB attacks also give him trouble like Aerodactyl (can set up SR which makes it even worse)
    • Trick Room sets can render useless since he gets slower each round instead of faster.
    • Priority ruins Yanmega since it ignores all his Speed Boosts and can finish off that last point of HP if running a Focus Sash.
    • Tyranitar
    • Weather that wears the user down is also bad since it breaks Yanmega's Sash.
    • Paralysis puts a damper on any sweep you might due, although in rare occasions, +6 Speed might still out speed some stuff
    • Nothing truly walls Specs Yanmega aside from Blissey since he can hit all pokemon for at least neutral damage. </p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Yanmega's Dream World ability is Frisk. This ability allows Yanmega to see their opponent's item when he enters battle. While Frisk does play well into the idea of Yanmega as a scout, it pales in comparison to Speed Boost and Tinted Lens.</p>
  2. Heracrossed

    Heracrossed

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    I've finished a Skeleton and almost half of a first draft so if I could gets some comments, that would be nice. I'd like to hear some other options but there isn't really much else Yanmega can do since his movepool is somewhat limited and there is no reason to not run either the Lead or Specs sets since they are his best sets.
  3. Janza

    Janza

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    "Gifted with two of the best abilities in the game, Yanmega is either able to increase its Speed each turn with Speed Boost, outspeeding the entire metagame after one or two boosts. Yanmega's other ability, Tinted Lens, allow it to have flawless coverage and hit every Pokemon for at least neutral damage with one of its attacks" should probably read something like "Gifted with two of the best abilities in the game, Yanmega is either able to increase its speed each turn with Speed Boost, outspeeding the entire metagame after one or two boost or, have flawless coverage with one of its attacks with Tinted Lens."
  4. Heracrossed

    Heracrossed

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    Fixed! Thanks.
  5. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    bug buzz is still resisted by heatran even with tinted lens. pokes that x4 resists moves will still have a x2 resist. all the steel/bugs and nattorei will resist giga drain. and i believe aggron (not that this matters) resists air slash. kingdra resists hp fire.

    basically word this differently because there are still pokemon who resist yanmegas moves through tinted lens
  6. Bugbot

    Bugbot

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    "Has not been kind" is already used in a few analyses (unless they were corrected in recent GP checks). It doesn't REALLY matter, but it pleases the reader if he or she reads different stuff instead of the same thing in every analysis.

    You also do not have to mention Blaziken, since he's in the Uber tier now.

    The rest of the analysis looks fine. I don't think other sets than the Anti-Lead and the Choice sets are viable. Maybe mention Roost and Tailwind (for a non-Choiced Tinted Lens set), but that's about it.
  7. Heracrossed

    Heracrossed

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    Obviously you wouldn't use Bug Buzz if Heatran came in, you could opt for Hidden Power Ground or just Air Slash it and possibly hope for hax or just switch out. A specs boosted Air Slash does 45.2% - 53.3% which is not amazing but not laughable.

    I'll throw in a mention about Heatran and Lucario since I planned to talk about them in the Checks/Counters section anyway.
  8. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    well your using choice items, not life orb, so if you predict wrong then it wont work. and also hp ground is just a bad idea switch it with hp fighting because almost all heatran run ballons now, ttar is a bitch, and you would still have se coverage on ferro if you run hp fighting over hp fire.
  9. Heracrossed

    Heracrossed

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    Added all of this! It also reminded me to mention something about Life Orb which is an option for the Specs set if someone doesn't want to get locked into a move.
  10. Heracrossed

    Heracrossed

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    On the lead set HP Fighting won't 2HKO Heatran while if you use a turn to use Air Slash / Bug Buzz to pop the balloon and then use HP Ground to finish it off. I don't think that HP Fighting is smarter on the Lead Set but I will slash it in on the Specs set.

    Edit: Actually I changed my mind. I don't think that HP Fighting is viable since it won't OHKO Heatran so it would be smarter to switch out to something that could possibly pop the balloon and then go back to Yanmega if you are still having issues with the Heatran. I'll mention it in the Additional Comments but it is not a viable move on either set. Especially since it won't OHKO Ttar either due to the boost he gets from Sandstorm.
  11. Diana

    Diana Fennekin the cutest
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    Couldn't Hidden Power Rock have a bit of utility on the first set? It still gets Ninetales and also lets you hit Thundurus and Zapdos. It's your hardest hit on Dragonite as well.
  12. Heracrossed

    Heracrossed

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    It has its use but hitting Zapdos and Thundurus is not really worth losing out on hitting either Ferrothorn for x4 or the numerous pokemon that are weak to Ground/Fire. Your team should have a counter or check to both Thundurus and Zapdos, that isn't Yanmega's job. I'll add a bit in the other options, but it really is more about what balances out your team. I personally always use HP Ground, but think that Fire is the next most useful due to the abundance of Ferrothorn.
  13. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    i just read the first sets name.... there arent any leads in 5th gen, so change that cause qc will tell you that anyway. name it all out attacker or something

    also it seems that the first set only works as a lead because of that, because if stealth rock is out then your sash is useless, at least slash life orb in. also if you do opt life orb mention hp fighting there at least because tbh heatran will ohko.

    also remove all comments of stealth rock ont being common, because its still used on many many teams. also stress more on a spinner because without it yanmega cant be used very well.

    when i think about it will the anti lead set even work, because tar is quite possibly the most common "lead" due to sandstream and it wont die from anything yanmega has, set up rocks, while sandstorm breaks your sash rendering yanmega ohkoable by tar's stone edge/ ice beam/ fire blast if still alive, or the next pokemon

    EDIT: also sorry if it sounds like im trying to make it sound like yanmega sucks, cause ive used him he doesn't suck, but he has a lot of glaring problems that are coming up in my head.
  14. Heracrossed

    Heracrossed

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    Then I will do it when QC tells me to do it, to say there are no lead pokemon just because of Team Preview is not true. Some pokemon function very well at the beginning of the battle and Yanmega is a pokemon that does exactly that. If it comes into the battle later it can't function as well due to entry hazards like SR.

    I will mention in the Additional Comments that you can put a Life Orb on it, but once again you might say that there are no leads anymore which is kinda naive since there will always be leads in single battles even if Team Preview exists or not.

    No. Some people still use SR but it is not as common as other entry hazards and I mentioned a spinner already.

    That is why Tyranitar is Yanmega's main counter other than Blissey. Not only is it able to set up SR, it puts up Sandstorm which breaks sashes. I'm fully aware of how much Tyranitar wrecks Yanmega but there really isn't anything to do about it since HP Fighting doesn't even OHKO it. Which is why weather support and rapid spin are helpful if you run Yanmega.
  15. Friar

    Friar

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    Mention that the 104 def evs are to survive +2 lucario extremespeed. Sure it bulks yanmega up in general also, but raikoulover made those evs to survive that particular attack, so might as well mention it.

    I second slashing Life Orb alongside sash on the first set. The sash makes sense if your general plan is to lead with yanmega, so you get two speed boosts anyway, but Life Orb works better as a sweeper later in the game with more power, and can still check stuff by protecting for the speed boost. To me, Life orb makes more sense on the whole, but I can understand how Yanmega could be a team's usual lead, making focus sash just as useful.

    One other thing I thought was interesting was that you noted that yanmega could 2hko weather leads ninetales and politoed to gain control of the weather. The only time I could think of that this would be useful would be if you used yanmega on a sun or rain team to kill of the opposing inducer and then have the jump on the abusers due to speed boost. Using yanmega on a sand team seems pretty suicidal, so it wouldn't really apply in that circumstance. So, if that is the context you were thinking about, you should elaborate on it or take.out that sentence.

    Keep up the good work.
  16. Heracrossed

    Heracrossed

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    Thanks!

    I will expand on the weather idea and obviously it was meant for Rain/Sun, haha. Yanmega with HP Fire is actually pretty good on Drought teams since that extra boost from Sun even though he takes more damage from Fire moves, but he wouldn't survive a Fire move most of the time anyway.
  17. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
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    [23:35:19] <+supermarth64> can we agree that any comment in an analysis about stealth rock not being as common is wrong?
    [23:37:19] <&iconic> Yeah!
    [23:38:17] <+supermarth64> also that there are no dedicated leads/anti-leads and that the use of a set as a lead should be mentioned in the comments?
    [23:38:41] <&iconic> yeah

    [23:40:23] <&iconic> yeah
    [23:40:31] <&iconic> you can correct him
    [23:40:38] <&iconic> Say The Boss Iconic Agrees

    So yea fix those two things (this coming from Iconic, a QC member).
  18. Heracrossed

    Heracrossed

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    I took out the mentions of SR being common, but I don't quite get the whole thing you guys are saying about leads. There are still pokemon that function well as leads and I think that Yanmega is one of those pokemon. I switched the name to Attacking Lead as opposed to Anti-Lead but I don't know what else is expected.

    Also I will throw some damage calcs for the weather leads up tomorrow but other than that does anyone think anything needs to be added before QC Checks?
  19. twash

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    Yanmega works just as well as a late-game sweeper, as the metagame is pretty offensive and Yanmega can clean up a lot of threats after a bit of prior damage. Whilst it may work as a lead, it's not really appropriate to name it on just one thing that the set does, when it can work in a completely different style as well. I'd just name it "Offensive", stick Life Orb as the main option, with comments about how Focus Sash and leading with it can work.

    Take out the 104Def EVs, add it to Other Options or something. Luke isn't half as common in BW as he was in DP, and Yanmega shouldn't be using EVs to take it on when other common Pokemon can do so much better. When Luke is used, it tends not come out early game, so if you're using Yanmega as a lead, then it's not going to be facing Luke. If you're using Yanmega late-game, either Stealth Rock is down (you lose to +2 ES), or you have your Focus Sash in tact (EVs to survive then pretty pointless), or you have a Life Orb (shouldn't be taking on Luke!). Personally, I'd just stick it into Speed, there's no reason not to max it, as it will allow you to hurt stuff like +2 Adamant Excadrill and Chlorophyll Timid Venusaur, who may be the opposing team's best answers as a revenge killer to Yanmega. It will also help you be a bit safer against a lot of lesser-seen random threats like Adamant Scarf Heracross and Scarf Heatran. Finally, you outspeed Jolly Gyarados and Timid Togekiss (better against DDGyara/Roost Togekiss respectively). All these random threats (there are obviously more) add up, and it's generally better to be suited against these "unexpected" threats, as opposed to bodging some EVs to survive a +2 Luke ES. In fact, it's interesting to note that even with just 4Def EVs, Luke's Life Orb +2 ES does 79.87% - 94.25%, so the 104Def EVs are only really useful for residual damage, but even then I still think that the Speed is better.

    Hidden Power Ice deserves a mention, hitting Landorus, Gliscor, Dragonite, the Genies, and so on. Hidden Power Fighting and Rock are kind of so-so options at best.
  20. Heracrossed

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    I've always felt that those Def EVs were kind of pointless, especially since I ran this set with the Focus Sash most of the time. But when you have the Life Orb it actually helps survive OHKOs, turning them into 2HKOs, allowing you to get another attack off.

    But when I use Focus Sash I've found that the Def investment was most useful in surviving 2 LO Bullet Punches from Scizor, who would commonly come in against Yanmega. They would expect the 2HKO but they don't get it while you turn around and are able to get the 2HKO with Air Slash.

    I think that overall the Def EVs are important, but I will most certainly discuss moving them back into Spe in the additional comments.
  21. Majora_younglink

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    Isn't this more of an analysis at this point? I may be rusty on my terms but it seems like you've put enough info into most of these sets for them to be able to be QC checked.

    Unless you're just having it under Skeleton so you can solely get user input then I suppose it can be considered skeleton.
  22. cosmicexplorer

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    For Hidden Power Ground, it should be mentioned that most Heatran run Air Balloon, making it significantly less useful.

    Also, Modest Choice Specs Air Slash 2HKOs most Heatran, which is one of the most common switch-ins to Yanmega, so that might be useful to mention.
  23. Heracrossed

    Heracrossed

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    I added both of those points to the skeleton and am looking for QC checks! I will send out some PMs later today.
  24. Moo

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    Seems like you've copied the 4th gen sets, which isn't bad, but change the first sets name. All out attacker or something. Mention how it's a good poke to lead off with though, because it doesn't have to worry about Stealth Rock damage if it is in first thing in the game.
  25. Heracrossed

    Heracrossed

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    That is the first bullet point on the first set.

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