yee's assignment thread

#1
Time to re-do some nostalgic early bw analysis that haven't been changed for years.


Arcanine

-Only has a legitimate chance to be viable on sun

-Isn't viable on sun

OU Worthy: No


Chandelure

-Doesn't have Shadow Tag yet

-Really outdated analysis- I haven't seen a single good team with Specs / Scarf / Calm Mind / Sunny Day sets yet, but I know the Sub set works. It's the only viable set on there, everything else belongs in OO for being mostly outclassed/bad. Leftovers should probably be the primary option on the Sub set over LO.

-With those sets removed, a couple changes in the Sub set's writing (calcs on 4/0 Toed and 252/0 Dragonite are not needed), Sacred Beast/Keldeo mentions sprinkled in and a new Checks & Counters section, the analysis will be fine.

OU Worthy: Yes
Worth a Revamp: No


Crobat

-Currently only one set, the "stallbreaker" or "utility" one we've all gotten used to. I'm partial to it staying this way.

-It's still the average maybe viable pokemon it's always been, I would make Super Fang a lesser option than U-Turn or Toxic in the final slot. I think it has potential, it would need a mention of how it revenges Keldeo now. Again a better checks and counters section is needed.

OU Worthy: Most likely
Worth a Revamp: Have to see


Eelektross

-never seen one in all of BW so far

-Sub Coil and Mixed Coil looked sort of usable, but are simply not competitive sets in OU.

OU Worthy: No


Gallade

-Bulk Up and Swords dance sets are currently on site- Bulk Up doesn't seem to threaten any major playstyle and Swords Dance with Lucario and Terrakion available doesn't sound appealing.

OU Worthy: No


Hippowdon

-"Physical wall" and "Mixed wall" need to be made into one set, both EV spreads talked about under the current "Physical set". The Life Orb Tank I've mostly heard good things about and WeepinbellTamer likes it. Ginganinja also told me all about the good things it does.

OU Worthy: Yes
Worth a revamp: No


Krookodile

OU Worthy: No


Magnezone

-Looks good to me, just remove Dual Screens.

OU Worthy: Yes
Worth a revamp: Do mentions of new pokemon on a few sets call for a full revamp?


Ninjask

-Nothing notable got Perish Song or Haze.

OU Worthy: Yes
Worth a revamp: No


Rotom-H

-Not worth a team slot over a different fire type or Rotom-W.

-OU Worthy: No


Shiftry

-Does the same thing it originally did, it's viability is intact as long as Sun's is.

OU Worthy: Yes
Worth a revamp: No


Suicune

-Rain got more broken, but Offensive Calm Mind certainly hasn't gotten any better with Keldeo. Sub CM and Crocune aren't worth running at the moment either, which is a shame. Suicune has fallen out of OU entirely.

OU Worthy: No


Vaporeon

-The defensive sets are a tough call, but the offensive hydration rain set needs to be removed- no pokemon has a place as a purely offensive rain special water type with Keldeo around, unless it's filling a specific role like spinning/patching up a weakness. If it's decided they're "different" enough it can be kept. The defensive sets will most likely turn out to be as good as they were before, although the rain wall set should be first if the normal one is kept. Wish on it's own isn't THAT big of a selling point in BW.

OU Worthy: Yes
Worth a revamp: No


Xatu

-Current analysis is wack. Dual Screens is first followed by a defensive set with HP Fire and FeatherDance.

-Defensive needs to be first and needs to be updated by using it's useful support moves, like Reflect and U-Turn.

OU Worthy: Yes
Worth a revamp: Yes
 

shrang

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#2
Wow, do we really want to get rid of Suicune? Yeah, I know it's gotten a lot worse this gen, but removing entirely seems a bit... drastic, especially considering that Ninjask is keeping its OU analysis.

I think everyone knows that I hate Choice Scarf Magnezone already, but if removing that set is too much, can we at least move it down to the bottom? In terms of a Steel-trapping revenge killer, Magneton is seriously better like 80% of the time. If it were to stay, I want to see a considerable amount of that analysis making sure that if whoever's using Scarf Magnezone knows that Magneton exists and has a higher Speed (I'm a bit worried about how many people actually don't know this) and therefore knows the pros and cons of running both, making sure that their decision to use Scarf Magnezone is informed. The only reason we'd run Magnezone is to abuse its bulk and let it switch into stuff like Latios better, while Magneton outspeeds a lot of key threats that Magnezone can't, like Starmie, Tornadus-T, +1 Adamant Dragonite and Gyarados.

Also, if we've decided to include Analytic in Specs Magnezone, now would be a good time to put it in.
 
#3
My official opinion-

1. I hate to remove an analysis, but on a pure viability basis it's hard to justify keeping. I have had a lot of fun with Crocune in gen 5 but I don't think its good enough with the buffs to rain offense, mostly Thundurus-T. The other two sets certainly aren't worth running when Keldeo is available.

2. Choice Scarf Magnezone is probably the all around most useful Magnezone, so for the best compromise we would have that one high up with a comparison to Magneton included.

Also, Analytic is slashed on specs already :P
 

Arcticblast

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#4
Is Scarf Magnezone really the most useful Magnezone? From the times I've used SubCharge, I liked it way better than Scarf (ignore the fact that I wrote Magneton's analysis) and really think it should come before the Scarf analysis. Setting up on Ferrothorn and perhaps a Choice-locked Steel is just too good of an opportunity to pass up. We know Magneton does the Scarf set better, whereas Magnezone generally does the Scarf set better. I'm not saying that we remove the Scarf set, but merely that it shouldn't be the first set.
 

Worldtour

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#5
I think Suicune should keep an Analysis, but if so, I think only the CroCune set should stay on there. Honestly, the set can be a bit devastating with smart playing, and with enough Calm Minds (setting up several is the point of the set), it can take on Rain Offense since it is so bulky. The offensive sets are definently outclassed, but really, Thundurus-T alone shouldn't be the whole reason Suicune should lose its analysis. Also, since it is a Water-type, it can switch into every rain-boosted Hydro Pump with the sole exception of Specs Keldeo (which sometimes 2HKOs unless Suicune takes 72+ EVs from Defense and puts it into Special Defense), so it can Calm Mind on several Pokemon in rain.

Even though Suicune isn't nearly as effective as last generation, it still can run Crocune well in some cases, and the said rain actually helps it hit a bit harder (For example, after 1 Calm Mind, Suicune does 64-76% with Scald while Tornadus-T only does 38%-45% with Timid Specs Hurricane in return). It will almost never beat Thundurus-T (or Ferrothorn), but it can set up on quite a number of Pokemon, rain or not.
 

Pocket

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#6
I agree, Suicune's analysis should stay. What sets Suicune apart from other Water-types is its unparalleled overall bulk (unlike Slowbro) and access to Calm Mind. Keldeo uses CM as an offensive tool, while Suicune can also utilize Calm Mind for defensive purposes. Suicune can set up CMs on different mons than Keldeo. No weakness to Psyshock also helps, too.

I think Suicune still has its place in OU for checking physical threats, while not being set-up bait, thanks to Calm Mind and Roar. I believe its still viable in OU.

I do think the sets need to be re-tested for their effectiveness, though.
 

shrang

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#7
2. Choice Scarf Magnezone is probably the all around most useful Magnezone, so for the best compromise we would have that one high up with a comparison to Magneton included.
I disagree with this. Scarf Magnezone is the set that I personally think takes the least advantage of all of its fabulous traits. What are Magnezone's advantages? Magnet Pull, high Special Attack and excellent bulk and typing. In terms of Steel-trapping, it's the least effective out of all its sets. It doesn't do much to Ferrothorn in the rain at all, and the only real Steel-type that it does better at killing is Lucario. In terms of Special Attack, it's about the same, only difference is that you're forced to run Timid and not Modest. Also, it does not abuse its bulk in any better way than the other sets because it's the only one that doesn't run any form of bulk on it all, since you 252 Speed and Timid is absolutely compulsory. So what does it better than the other sets? Why revenge killing, of course, but then we just established that Magneton does that better. So yeah, I definitely think Scarf Magnezone is one of the most outclassed sets that it can use. If you want a bulky Steel-trapper, use one of its other sets like SubCharge or Specs, if you a fast Steel-trapper, use Magneton. This is why I am so against Scarf Magnezone.
 
#8
scarf magneton hits many more important benchmarks like + 1 dragonite and the new tornadus t and I believe it does indeed out class magnezone
 
#9
Sorry for dp but I'm on my phone, I noticed you want to combine spdef and physical hippo but they are very different and deserve their own sets. for starters the slashes are different since the spdef set can't take two + 1 outrage and they check many different things. Be sure to add that SR + whirlwind is legal and should replace roar coz mr mime in bp
 
#10
Scarf Magnezone can't even outspeed Starmie, which is pretty pathetic. I might even go as far as suggesting the relegation of Choice Scarf to the AC for all the reasons shrang mentioned and more. Lucario isn't even common in the metagame anyway, and tons of other Pokemon can easily take care of it.
 

shrang

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#11
Yeah, I've also brought up scrapping Scarf Magnezone altogether as well, but it does have uses as a bulky Steel-type Volt-Switcher that is moderately fast. It is mostly outclassed by Magneton and the other sets, but I've been shown that it does have a place in some teams, so therefore it shouldn't be scrapped completely. However, due to the way it is so outclassed by Magneton and its other sets, I do believe it should be the last set on the analysis.
 
#12
Suicune- We've been talking and Crocune will most likely stay. It still poses a huge defensive boosting threat, not even being 2HKOed by Ferrothorn's Power Whip (you win in the long run unless you're horrible with Scald luck), and takes on attackers like Landorus and Terrakion very well in rain. CB Terrakion 2HKOes with CC but it still loses with Stone Edge and has Pressure taxing both moves.

Magnezone- SubCharge used to be really good with Natt as everyone's bulky spiker but people are using Deo-D for that now- it's not getting multiple free kills every other game anymore. Even when it did the drawback of being slow and a liability against offense was quite a big one. Scarf can still trap every other Steel without problems and is actually useful in it's own right with speed instead of needing a Sub and boosts. As for comparing it to Magneton, when Starmie was the only real cost speed wise I didn't care much because you get 20 extra base stat points all over. With Tornadus-T however it is likely Scarf Ton will get the nod over Scarf Zone more than it did before. I don't see why this means Scarf has to be Magnezone's lowest set.

Hippowdon- The writing on the "Mixed wall" set shows there wasn't much for me to talk about, there's spD Hippo for not getting forced out by Draco Meteors and handling stuff like CM Jirachi better (even phazing out CM Viriz if you need it to) and there's physical Hippo that does really well vs boosting Dragonite / Terrakion / Lucario. That doesn't warrant 2 whole sets. Whirlwind however will replace Roar.
 
#13
What advantages does scarf magnezone have over magneton to not have the set deleted besides living more attacks like random rain boosted scald's..being able to outspeed a dragonite and tornadus is much more important and most of us agree magneton outclasses it so why not scrap the set?
 
#14
Sand Force Hippowdon deserves a mention as a good tank as well as a good counter to many common sand storm pokemon, such as Landorus. Also, Hippowdon recently recived the ability to use Stealth Rock with Sand Force, increasing its viability.
 
#15
What advantages does scarf magnezone have over magneton to not have the set deleted besides living more attacks like random rain boosted scald's..being able to outspeed a dragonite and tornadus is much more important and most of us agree magneton outclasses it so why not scrap the set?
More power I think? But it can't revenge Tornadus-T while Magneton can.
 

shrang

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#16
More power I think? But it can't revenge Tornadus-T while Magneton can.
Just saying, you can actually run Modest Magneton, outspeed the same amount of things Timid Magnezone can and sport more power. Its mix of bulk and power are what I think everyone sees in it, although I tend to not think it's that important.
 
#17
I personally think any mention of scarf Magnezone should be removed. Magneton just completely outclasses, bar a slight power decrease. I don't know why the scarf was allowed on Magnezone analysis in the first place.
 
#18
I just wanted to throw out:
BW Sun Guide said:
Despite losing its part-Ghost typing in the generation transition, Rotom-H is another excellent supporting choice for sun teams, with both good bulk and offenses. Its Electric / Fire typing is unique; while Overheat's Special Attack drop holds it back from being a sun sweeper, STAB Electric-type attacks are excellent for taking out rain abusers and Ninetales' nemesis Politoed; an immunity to Ground-type moves, courtesy of Levitate, as well as access to Will-O-Wisp allows Rotom-H to fare well against sand teams too. Shadow Ball takes out Latios and other threatening Psychic-types, while Choice sets can run Trick to cripple stall teams.
Does ok versus sand and rain for sun I guess?