1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Yet another Lucario Team |OU RMT|

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Psychotic.., Aug 3, 2010.

  1. Psychotic..

    Psychotic..

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    OU RMT
    Hiya Smogon! Today i bring you another RMT. This one based around one of my favorite sweepers Lucario. I had good success with this team but i always feel i need to improve. After trying to get advice from serebii and getting shit worth responses i felt i needed to take it to the pros. Not much else to say In the intro i hope you enjoy my RMT and if you actually take the time to read every word and give me a solid rate. ILY <3

    Changes Will be in BOLD


    WELCOME

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    ------------------------


    ~Team Build~
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Stage 1:Obviously this is a Lucario team and, well you try building a Lucario team without Lucario himself. So i present the amazing sweeper himself

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Stage 2:The next three pokemon i decided on are apart of my G/W/F core that was popularized very quickly during the Salamence suspect period. Swampert/Heatran/Shaymin seem to have good synergy so i went with them. Not to mention Swampert is a hell of a tank. Heatran revenges nicely and Shaymin is a great sweeper as-well.



    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Stage 3:The next Pokemon Starmie was chosen for two reasons. One the life orb set is a surprising sweeper but the main reason is because of the way it deals with Lucario's checks. Gliscor, Gyarados, Heatran all get taken out by LO Surf/Ice beam making it an ideal choice on paper. Of course Starmie also has the ability to rapid spin those nasty spikes that might get in my way.




    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Stage 4: The 6th member of my team was introduced as a specs revenge killer. I added PZ for some extra pow on Gliscor/Skarmory who wall Lucario. I always thought PZ was a underrated sweeper that really had some potential. Also during this stage i noticed i really had no good lead so i plugged Swampert as a lead. To be honest i always thought Swampert was a good user of SR and a great tank but i never found it a good pokemon to lead. One of the reasons i made a RMT.



    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Stage 5: PZ simply wasn't cutting it and my team was getting walled by special walls(Mainly everyones favorite fatass). PZ wasnt doing much anyways so it got replaced by Gengar. Gengar lures blissey and wrecks her with Pain split. Not to mention Gengar has the ability to hit pretty much everything hard with Shadow ball/Focus Blast. Gengar also causes a lot of switches making it a good substitute sweeper
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Stage 6: As recognized by raters i have a large weakness to DD Gyara/Agility Empoleon. I also noticed Agility Lucario/Metagross can also be a problem. In response to this I made Gengar a scarf user and Heatran a LO taunt variant. I also replaced Suicune>>>Starmie to remove a weak Gyarados link. The Lucario-Suicune combo is also rather pleasing.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    -Team In Depth-

    ~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    ~~~~~~~~~

    The Lead:
    [​IMG]

    -Swampet@Leftovers[​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]
    -Ability:Torrent
    -Nature:Relaxed
    -EV's:252 HP, 252 Defense 4 Attack

    -Moves:

    • Earthquake
    • Ice Beam
    • Roar
    • Stealth Rocks


    ~ Swampert?

    • Swampert was added to the team as a tank that could also set up rocks. The move-pool is self explanatory Roar is a very helpful tool as it lets me roar away set up sweepers and BP's like Ninjask. Earthquake and Ice Beam are both coverage moves and SR becaue i need SR so Lucario can net important KO'so not much to explain here. I am however disappointed in Swampert. At first i thought it would be a good sufficient lead that would get up rocks easily but i find my self running away from Machamp,Roserade, Aerodactyl and Azelf all of which are extremely common and pose a threat to Swampert. Being a offensive team I dont like running away and losing the offensive momentum. I do however like Swamperts ability to wall, set up and phaze but having him in lead position hurts me.



    • Considered changes :Like I said Swampert has its uses but having a Swampert in lead irritates me. My goal is too somehow fit a Azelf/Machamp and keep swampert for his other purposes. Suggestions?

    ~~~~~~~~~

    The StallBreaker:
    [​IMG]
    -Heatran@Life Orb [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]

    -Ability: Flash Fire
    -Nature:Timid
    -EV's:252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    -Moves:

    • Fire Blast
    • Earth Power
    • Hidden power {Grass}
    • Taunt

    ~Heatran?

    • After noticing my large problem with DD Gyara/Agility Emp. I decided to make Gengar my resident scarf user who out-speeds these pokemon after they set up unlike Heatran. This change made my team weaker to stall so i made Heatran a LO variant. LO tran rips through walls like its his job. Fairly impressed with this set. ScarfTran has been replaced by Life Orb Tran as suggested by IBanez.


    • Considered Changes: N/A
    ~~~~~~~~~

    The Gimmicky Ghost:
    [​IMG]
    Gengar@Choice Scarf[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Ability:Levitate
    Nature:Timid
    EV's: 252 SpA, 252 SpE, 4 HP
    Moves:

    • Shadow Ball
    • Thunderbolt
    • Hidden Power{ICE}
    • Trick/Focus Blast

    ~Gengar?

    • Heatran as a revenge killer is not bad but he can't deal with Empoleon/Gyarados/Metagross/Lucario etc after they set up. Gengar's blistering speed hits 525 with a scarf on. This helps me deal with my DDGyara weakness(who can otherwise tear through my team). ITs rather unpredictable and can be a problem with trick. The ScarfGar suggestion was made by IBanez


    • Considered Changes: N/A
    ~~~~~~~~~

    The Support:
    [​IMG]
    Shaymin@Leftovers [​IMG][​IMG]
    Ability: Natural Cure
    Nature: Timid
    EV's:
    252 HP / 36 SpA / 220 Spe
    Moves:

    • Seed Flare
    • Hidden Power{Fire}
    • Substitute
    • Leach Seed

    ~Shaymin?

    • SubSeed Shaymin is a very helpful tool on this team. Thanks to Shaymin's ability to cause switches, Shaymin usually manages to get a sub up. After that It can leech seed and start forcing more switches. Thanks to Salamence's ban to ubers very little standard in Shaymins way of seeding and sweeping to its hearts content. This little thing is really a powerful beast. It even works as a nice status absorber thanks to natural cure. Thanks to UlyssesI now run HP fire over Earth power so i can hit the likes of Celebi,Breloom and other grass types that cant be hit by leech seed.Thanks Ulysses

    • Considered Changes: I'm thinking of changing this to a offensive variant. Suggestions? o.o

    ~~~~~~~~~

    The Supporting Sweeper-
    [​IMG]
    Suicune@Life Orb[​IMG][​IMG]
    Ability:Pressure
    Nature: Timid
    EV's: 252 SpA, 252 SpE, 4 HP
    Moves:


    • Surf
    • Ice Beam
    • Hidden Power {Electric}
    • Calm Mind

    ~Suicune?
    Suicune replaced Starmie as i found it to be a weak link. Offensive suicune also makes a nice partner to Lucario. The offensive set is my final response to the DD Gyara weakness. Suicune also unlike Starmie can boost and sweep leaving it easier for Lucario to clean up.

    ~Considered changes
    : Someone on IRC actually suggested I use a DD Gyara in replace of Suicune so i can lure out physical walls before Lucario sweeps. Suggestions? O_o

    ~~~~~~~~~

    The Star Of The Show-
    [​IMG]
    Lucario@Life Orb[​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]
    Ability: Inner Focus
    Nature: Jolly
    EV's: 252 Atk, 252 speed, 4 hp

    Moves:

    • Swords Dance
    • Close Combat
    • Crunch
    • Extreme Speed
    ~Lucario?

    • When Salamence got banned to ubers, Lucario lost one of its best checks, Because of this Lucario became a even better sweeper than it already is. To take advantage of this i decided to make a Lucario based team. So far Im fairly impressed with Luke. Good move pool and offensive stats make it a prime pokemon for sweeping. I decided to go with SDLuke over AGULuke because the power after two swords dances is incredible. I usually try to get Lucario in a choiced hit or set up when i have the offensive momentum. The move set is fairly obvious. SD for boosts Close Combat for stab, Crunch for coverage and Extreme Speed for priority.


    • Considered Changes: Not much. This team is for both Wifi and Shoddy so maybe BP over Crunch?

    ~~~~~~~~~

    Closing Words
    I hope you liked my RMT and i hope you give me a good rate. The main focus of this RMT is too Find and new lead, find any possible threats to this team and overall get an impression of what smogonities think of this team. Any Advice from a small ev adjustment to replacing pokemon seems good to me. Well Thanks for reading my RMT i hope you enjoyed.

    Last Look

    ------------------------
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    ------------------------
  2. Azlanslayer

    Azlanslayer

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    259
    Sup Smug,Hope You Are Back From Florida..I Need Some Pokesav Pokes =)

    Rate Time! God,Swampert Actually Is Slow And It Doesnt Beat Any Lead As Taunt Stop Him From Setting Up.Actually Use Azelf > Swampert As It Set-Up's SR With Ease.Use Colbur Berry Lead.Machamp Owns This Team With His Dynamic And Payback Punches.So Use Colbur Berry.Payback Fails To KO And Kill Him With Explosion!

    Solid Team Smug,But Well,Wanna Battle?

    Good Luck!
  3. Jedgi

    Jedgi

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Messages:
    66
    Use protect over earth power on shaymin, trust me, you won't be disappointed.
  4. Lucien Lachance

    Lucien Lachance

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    669
    You have problems with Special walls becuase 4 of your pokemon, including your ENTIRE F/W/G core, I'm using Starmie >> Pert, is easily walled by a Blssey. Try a MixNape >> Heatran. He's quick to revenge kill and laughs at all blisseys.
  5. Psychotic..

    Psychotic..

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    Well that's the main reason i added Gengar. Lure out special walls and pain split. Heatran can explode and Shaymin can sap away HP with leech seed.

    Ill still try MixApe as adding a wall breaker does seem nice.
  6. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,801
    You are slightly weak to Taunt Dos (starmie is the only thig that can beat it short of exploding with Heatran) and a Gengar (which comes in on Shaymin).
    personaly I would run a Scarf Tar or something over Heatran to beat Gengar which causes Lucario problems. Scarf Tar also buts a huge dent in Blissey with Pursuit is it can get in safely. I would prefer it also if a Gliscor was used over Swampert sicne I think you stated that you wanted a new lead. Gliscor sets up SR but can also function as a nice check to Blisey with Taunt and it works nicely with Tyraitar pursuiting Bliss after a Taunt.

    Have a Nice Day!
  7. Psychotic..

    Psychotic..

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    Psycho used post thread!

    Its not very effective.

    Psycho used bump!
  8. Ulysses

    Ulysses

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    376
    This is actually a very nice team with most threats and angles covered. I'll advise some small changes as to not devoid you of your synergy.

    On Shaymin, I recommend switching Earth Power for Hidden Power Fire. You might snap a surprise kill on Heatran, but for the most part HP Fire is going to see more use because it hits Grass-types, the only Pokemon whom Shaymin cannot stall with Leech Seed, for super-effective damage.

    I could see Starmie or Gengar giving you trouble with some proper prediction, however you have the benefit of tying Starmie and not giving Gengar many opportunities to set, since Shaymin's HP Fire breaks Gengar's Substitute-though repeated switch-ins to Shadow Ball will leave you grasping. For this, I'm going to recommend switching Heatran's nature from Naive to Timid. You'll notice a minimal change in the power of Explosion, and you'll take Gengar's Shadow Ball and Rotom-A's Thunderbolt better.

    Good luck!
  9. Psychotic..

    Psychotic..

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    Thanks for the rate! I was actually testing HP fire and i think ill stick with that. I also test out Timid nature Heatran because i had some problems with rotom, :/


    Can i has more rates?
  10. Moo

    Moo Professor
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,446
    Hi :D
    I'm no expert, but if you want a different lead, you can switch swampert for starmie. Starmie makes an effective lead, with possibly Grass knot > Tbolt for very common lead perts, and maybe Psychic > Ice Beam for lead Machamps. These seem like strange changes, but it helps you deal with threats in the lead phase rather than late game. Just a suggestion
  11. Neoixan

    Neoixan

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2010
    Messages:
    22
    Why mix swampert? he really doesnt have enough spatk to make a different in the damage unless you have a spatk+ nature.
    ...Kinda weak to ground type moves tbh.
    This team is too copy/paste really. Anyone Could outpredict you, and you don't have any healing moves on any pokemon except gengar. I like the shaymin idea, though leech seed... idk... it's helpful Sure, but still.
    I don't like life orb on lucario..... Not with Sword Dance, I'd suggest Bullet Punch > Extremespeed.
    heatran is fine, just as move coverage.
    I don't see many safe switches there but idk ><

    kool team <3
  12. Psychotic..

    Psychotic..

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    Thanks for the rate Moo! Ill try that out for sure. Seems logical enough, except if i lose Starmie i have nothing to check Gyarados, Heatran and Gliscor

    The main reason i have ice beam on Swampert is to deal with Physical walls like Gliscor who can other wise hurt me as a lead. I have noticed the ground weakness so i try to keep Shaymin and Gengar alive to take them. Not too big of a problem.

    I actually tried BP>>>>Extremespeed but failed miserably. I lost important ko's on the likes of Flygon. Life orb so i can net those KO's and i need it since im not running Adamant.

    Thanks :P
  13. (makeup)

    (makeup) kevin
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,874
    This is a nice, solid team, but let me recomend a few things.

    1: Gengar owns your Lucario, so you need something like Weavile to Pursuit it before Lucario can sweep.
    2: I scarf Mixape tearing through this team

    The solution:
    Slapping a scarf on gengar can defeat opposing gengar as well as defeat scarf Mixape. It also defeats opposing Lucario that can trouble this team after Swampert is gone (or even when Swampert is present, after it has two Swords Dances in).

    Other than those things, this is a nice, solid team. Good job.
  14. Beelogical

    Beelogical

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    17
    By scarfing Starmie, you can trick incoming bliss, it also lets you revenge kill things such as scarf nape. It does cause you to become pursuit bait, but then you can get out Lucario with no problems
  15. IronBullet93

    IronBullet93 free as a bird
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,504
    Hey,

    Pretty solid team. You seem to have a pretty big DD Gyara weakness, and really big weakness to Grass Knot Agility Empoleon. If it manages to set up, it sweeps your team with practically no problem. To help out with these Pokemon, I'd suggest replacing Gengar with a Scarf Rotom-w, who takes care off the above threats with practically no problem. The moveset I suggest is Thunderbolt/Hydro Pump/Shadow Ball/Trick. I recommend Rotom-w mainly for its ability to hit the omnipresent Scarftar switch-in for pretty consistent damage with Hydro Pump.

    Now, since the removal of Gengar makes you slightly weaker to Stall, I recommend changing your Heatran's set to a Life Orb Taunt version. This guy rips stall apart, and even Blissey can't do much to it. A moveset of Fire Blast/HP Grass/Earth Power/Taunt should work well. It still provides you with a nice check to Scizor, Jirachi and other Steel types.

    Nice team, and gl!
  16. george182

    george182

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2009
    Messages:
    506
    So as every1 is saying you have a DD gyarados weakness, I suggest changing your starmie, it appears to be the weak link. Try out an offensive suicune:

    Suicune @ Leftovers
    4hp/252 ap.atk/252 speed
    Timid
    - Calm mind
    - Surf
    - Ice beam
    - Hp Electric

    Firstly suicune has the bulk to take even a DD boosted life orb bounce from gyarados, and she is a better sweeper than starmie due to her access to calm mind. You don't need a rapid spiner as your not weak to stealth rocks, and any team laying spikes/toxic spikes down will have a ghost, and you don't have any great ghost counter's or pursuit users. So imo rapid spin is useless on this team.

    One noticible loss is you don't outspeed infernape, however your gengar/heatran and infernape can't OHKO suicune without a boosting move to ko cune anyway e.g. nasty plot boosted grass knot, or a sword dance boosted close combat.

    Swampert doesn't make a very good lead imo. But he does seem right for the team, so I would swap him for gengar, and then swap gengar for an azelf. Then use an anti lead azelf set like:

    Azelf @ Life orb
    Naive
    4 atk/252 sp.atk/252 speed
    - Psychic
    - Grassknot
    - Explosion
    - U-turn/fire blast/Hp Ground

    Azelf surprise OHKO's almost every common lead including Max hp:
    Machamp, Swampert and Hippowdon

    Fire blast/hp ground can be used for celebi, metagros, jirachi, skarmory and heatran. However Celebi, metagross and heatran normally can on occa/shucca berry and can all OHKO azelf. Jirachi is normally scarfed and will beat you with iron head flinch hax. While skarmory is probably not staying in fearing a taunt/fireblast.

    It's can also be effective against stall teams as it can rips holes in them and a timely explosion can also break through.

    The other thing is most of your pokemon are special, so they will be keeping there physical walls hidden until lucario comes out. I would suggest having something like a scarf flygon to lure them in, otherwise you will find lucario countered every time he sets up.

    Hope I helped.
  17. Psychotic..

    Psychotic..

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    45


    Well I'm going to test all of these:


    I actually put Taunt over Explosion on Heatran. I'm also thinking of trying Scarf Flygon over Shaymin because i feel Shaymin is contributing the least and Flygon can also help with my Gyarados problem with Thunderpunch.

    More rates? o-o
  18. IronBullet93

    IronBullet93 free as a bird
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,504
    Actually, I meant for you to try out a Life Orb Heatran with Taunt, mainly because a Scarfed Taunt is practically useless and the extra power helps him blast his way through walls. If Rotom-w doesn't work on WiFi, then Scarf Gengar is an excellent alternative. Try a moveset of Shadow Ball/HP Ice/Thunderbolt/Trick. This allows you to revenge both DD Gyara and DD Nite, as well as pack a nasty surprise for Blissey. I'm not too keen on replacing Shaymin, as it's your main defense against bulky waters. If you find that its power is lacking, try a Life Orb attacking set. A moveset of Seed Flare/Earth Power/HP Ice/Rest should work well, with Max Speed and Special Attack. Shaymin's Natural Cure ability makes Rest a great option, so you get a full recovery move with practically no drawbacks.
  19. Psychotic..

    Psychotic..

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    Yeah i actually made Heatran LO Tran a while ago just forgot to edit it. I'll be sure to test out those changes to Gengar and Shaymin.


    EDIT: Changed Gengar to scarf variant and Suicune>>>Starmie
  20. qwertytommy

    qwertytommy

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    7
    -Heatran@Choice Scarf

    -Ability: Flash Fire
    -Nature:Timid
    -EV's:252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    -Moves:

    • Fire Blast
    • Earth Power
    • Hidden power {Grass}
    • Taunt

    ok well I was about to say that taunt on a scarftran was useless but then I read the last comment. I'm not sure why the switch of LO to scarf was necessary between gengar and heatran, as you could give heatran hp electric instead as it's not as expected and nets a lot of surprise kills on gyarados switch ins. Also dragon pulse could be used in place of taunt/explosion. You should update the team up top so we can actually see what it is we're rating though, because otherwise some comments are going to be useless, like mine probably is :p
  21. Psychotic..

    Psychotic..

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    lol. Yeah the reason Gengar was switched to a Scarf Variant Is because it helps be deal with DD Gyara easier. ScarfGar still outspeeds offensive Gyara after two dragon dances. Same goes with Empoleon.

    Yes i'll update x.x

    /is lazy
  22. HolyCow166

    HolyCow166

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    2
    <3 snuggie - tbh this team is atrocious. A gimmick gengar... :/, stupid, i recommend using a choice scarfed gastly, thats more original. Lead perts are failing due to most leads in the metagame carrying grass knot or taunt. i rate this team a 0 out of 10. <3 snuggie :P

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)