ORAS OU Yet another weather team. This time: RAIN!

Hello again ladies :)

Since my last team ( http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/first-sand-offense.3583618/ ) apparently didn't raise too much attention, let's try again with another weather team (yeah, I really like those :P), this time I went for a Hyper Offense Rain Team.

I'll structure this thread the same way I did my last, so hopefully everyone will be able to comprehend my thought process behind the team :)

1) Unlike Sand, Rain doesn't have that ONE designated sweeper, but instead boosts several different sweepers, so this time, my first Pokemon was the weather setter right away, and since the only OU Pokemon with Drizzle is Politoed, here we go:


Politoed (F) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Encore
- Rest

I went for a full support set and spread instead the offensive choice specs one you see sometimes, since imo it's more important for Politoed to come in multiple times to set Rain, instead of adding yet another, rather half-assed, sweeper to the team. Damp Rock for max rain turns, Rest for recovery, encore and Toxic to cripple some opponents.

2) Now on to the actual sweepers. In Rain you usually want one physical and one special swift swimmer, and on the physical side, there are only 2 viable options: Kabutops and Mega-Swampert. I chose Kabutops, since that still left me open with a Mega slot on my team, which you'll see later on.


Kabutops (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet

Life Orb and maxed out Atk to make him hit as hard as possible, Waterfall and Stone Edge as Stabmoves. The last 2 slots were a bit more tricky though: At first, I didn't know if I wanted Swords Dance or Rapid Spin, so I left it open, and when I finished my team, I realized I don't have any pokemon weak to SR, so I went for SD. Aqua Jet was chosen over Low Kick because I added another check for Ferrothorn later and Aqua Jet does not only help me outside of Rain, but will also allow me to out-priority other Pokemon :P

3) For my special sweeper I chose Kingdra, mainly because of his ridicoulosly high damage output, but also because his Dragon offtype neutralizes the nasty Grass and Electric attacks that give rain teams so much trouble.


Kingdra (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor hit like a motherf***ing truck, Ice Beam is used as Coverage, and Scald is a more reliable option later in the game, and can also burn switchins. EVs and choice specs are selfexplaining :)

4) Now, with the rain core covered, my next choice was a steel type, since they benefit MASSIVELY from fire attacks being weakened by rain. M-Scizor came naturally because of that, and because he's able to power through Ferrothorn, one of the worst things you can meet as Rain


Scizor-Mega (F) @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Bug Bite

Full offensive set, SD to set up on defensive pokemon like Ferrothorn that often switch in to Rain, Technician Bullet Punch hurts. A lot ;)

5) Next thing on my list was a check for Thundurus, since that Pokemon alone can dismantle rain teams on it's own. I thought about Manectric for a while, but since I already had a mega evolution, I went for Kyurem-B instead. He's a great powerhouse and wallbreaker, that can sometimes beat stall teams alone.


Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt
- Outrage

I basically just went for the hardest hitting attacks I could get on this one, lol. Ice Beam and Outrage are stab, Fusion Bolt and Earth Power not only hit hard anyways, but also cover a lot of things I need checked for my rain sweepers.

6) Now as my last Pokemon, I tried and tried to find something fitting... I really wanted to incorporate Tornadus for those nasty 100% accuracy Hurricanes, but with the team being Hyper Offense, my choice actually fell on a suicide lead instead. Azelf has a great movepool and can Skill Swap with Mega Sableye to prevent it from bouncing back rocks.


Azelf @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 228 Def / 28 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Skill Swap
- Taunt

Focus Sash to get guaranteed Rocks, Explosion to prevent defogging for a turn, Skill Swap as mentioned above for the omnipresent Sableyes. The last slot was tricky... I thought about Rain Dance to maybe be able to save Politoed for later, but in the end felt like Taunt was just a lot more flexible. I might change that one again later though.

---

As always, let me know what you think of the team, and if you found anything I could improve :)
 
Hey, nice team, but running a Dry Skin Pokemon, such as Toxicroak, helps a lot (Toxicroak can oneshot lot of Fairy Pokemon, Drain Punch kills a lot) or Heliolisk (100% accuracy on Thunder and other)
 
Hey, nice team, but running a Dry Skin Pokemon, such as Toxicroak, helps a lot (Toxicroak can oneshot lot of Fairy Pokemon, Drain Punch kills a lot) or Heliolisk (100% accuracy on Thunder and other)
Hi :)

Thanks for the suggestion, and the Dry Skin pokemon is actually a pretty valid point. What Pokemon would you replace for it though?

And about Heliolisk: I did indeed think about including a Thunder user, but Heliolisk is a bit too weak imo. I thought about Zapdos or Mega-Manectrict, but the latter was not an option because I had a mega evolution already, and Zapdos... meh, I actually think Kyurem-B works better in this kind of team, but maybe I'm wrong, so I'll definitely give it a shot when I play on ladder later.

Once again, thanks for your reply, and let me know what you think about the points I made :)
 
Hi there, NVT_Sart. Cool rain team you've put together here, albeit slightly linear, as all rain teams tend to be. A few issues I've noticed is a lack of reliable counter-play to opposing Sand teams, and a lack of a switch-ins to Life Orb Excadrill whatsoever. Furthermore, you're incredibly weak to Keldeo, having 0 reliable switch-ins, especially whilst rain is up. You also have zilch to come in on attacks such as Life Orb Draco Meteor from Latios, as your current MScizor spread has a 97% chance to drop to two full-powered attacks from Latios. Along with this, you also have a complete lack of switch-ins to Crawdaunt, which, especially when rain is up, OHKOs or 2HKOs the entirety of your team. Another sketchy match-up I've noticed is against opposing Electric-types such as Thundurus-I and Mega Manectric, your only counter-play to the prior being hoping that rain is up and getting it to 65% and KOing it with Aqua Jet from Kabutops, and if that isn't possible, one of your rain abusers is getting paralysed. These all can be fixed with a few tweaks here and there, and a change of a couple of Pokemon.

Firstly, a minor change I'd suggest is to go with Swords Dance+Low Kick over Aqua Jet on Kabutops, as, outside of the aforementioned Kabutops vs. Thundurus-I scenario, Aqua Jet provides little benefit to Kabutops in comparison to Low Kick, which is able to OHKO Ferrothorn at +2, making Kingdra's job a hell of a lot easier.

A slight tweak to your Mega Scizor spread can help alleviate the issues that Latios brings to the team, whilst also doing the same for the Crawdaunt match-up. I'd recommend using a spread of 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe with a Jolly Nature, over the spread that you currently have. What this enables Mega Scizor to do is outpace max-Speed Jolly Crawdaunt, and, the additional bulk changes Mega Scizor's chances of living two full-powered Draco Meteors from 2.3% to a whopping 96.1%. The damage loss from switching natures isn't really substantial, especially considering one of the biggest boons of running Adamant is to get better rolls on Rotom-W with +2 Bug Bite, which in any case, is a Pokemon that this team has no trouble pressuring through the combination of your rain abusers+Toxic Politoed.

->
I'd recommend switching out Kyurem-B to a bulky Life Orb Latias with a spread of 160 HP / 96 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid Nature, and a moveset of Draco Meteor / Thunderbolt | Thunder / Roost / Healing Wish. What the spread does is allow Latias to avoid the 2HKO from Specs Keldeo's Icy Wind, whilst still providing significant offensive presence, and hitting that nice 110 Speed-tier. Draco Meteor it a hard-hitting STAB move, Electric coverage seems off but it's to aid Mega Scizor in sweeping by significantly weakening Skarmory, one of Scizors roadblocks in the tier, Roost is for added longevity, and Healing Wish is a cool move that acts as a final gambit to bring back one of your weakened sweepers, be it Kabutops, Kingdra, or Mega Scizor. Latias also provides a solid check to the aforementioned Electric-type Pokemon.

->
Next up, I'd recommend changing Azelf to a defensive/offensive hybrid of Landorus-T with a spread of 24 HP / 240 Atk / 148 Def / 96 Spe and an Adamant Nature, and a moveset of Swords Dance / Stealth Rock / Smack Down / Earthquake and a Lum Berry as its held item. The defensive investment is basically an optimised spread for avoiding the 2HKO from Life Orb Excadrill's Iron Head after Stealth Rock damage, the Speed investment allows it to Speed-creep defensive Zapdos, and, subsequently hit it with an Earthquake after a Smack Down, and the remaining EVs were dumped into Attack to make it hit as hard as possible. Swords Dance is used in conjunction with Lum Berry to force out Mega Sableye, giving you the opportunity to set up rocks, but it also allows you to break down standard F/W/G balance teams considering Landorus-T's impressive attack stat; Stealth Rock is self-explanatory, and Earthquake is necessary strong and reliable STAB for Landorus-T to fire off, especially in conjunction with Smack Down.

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Encore
- Rest

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Low Kick

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 160 HP / 96 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Roost
- Healing Wish

Landorus-Therian @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 24 HP / 240 Atk / 148 Def / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock
- Smack Down
- Earthquake
Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance

You could probably get away without running Superpower on Scizor anymore, seeing as you have Low Kick to pressure Ferrothorn and most Heatran these days are max-Speed. Roost would give you a means of sticking around throughout the match and providing more defensive utility.

I think these changes improve the match-up this team has against a lot of the relevant meta threats, and overall make the team stronger. Enjoy, and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to shoot me a PM :]
 
Last edited:
Hi there, NVT_Sart. Cool rain team you've put together here, albeit slightly linear, as all rain teams tend to be. A few issues I've noticed is a lack of reliable counter-play to opposing Sand teams, and a lack of a switch-ins to Life Orb Excadrill whatsoever. Furthermore, you're incredibly weak to Keldeo, having 0 reliable switch-ins, especially whilst rain is up. You also have zilch to come in on attacks such as Life Orb Draco Meteor from Latios, as your current MScizor spread has a 97% chance to drop to two full-powered attacks from Latios. Along with this, you also have a complete lack of switch-ins to Crawdaunt, which, especially when rain is up, OHKOs or 2HKOs the entirety of your team. Another sketchy match-up I've noticed is against opposing Electric-types such as Thundurus-I and Mega Manectric, your only counter-play to the prior being hoping that rain is up and getting it to 65% and KOing it with Aqua Jet from Kabutops, and if that isn't possible, one of your rain abusers is getting paralysed. These all can be fixed with a few tweaks here and there, and a change of a couple of Pokemon.
Firstly, a minor change I'd suggest is to go with Swords Dance+Low Kick over Aqua Jet on Kabutops, as, outside of the aforementioned Kabutops vs. Thundurus-I scenario, Aqua Jet provides little benefit to Kabutops in comparison to Low Kick, which is able to OHKO Ferrothorn at +2, making Kingdra's job a hell of a lot easier.

A slight tweak to your Mega Scizor spread can help alleviate the issues that Latios brings to the team, whilst also doing the same for the Crawdaunt match-up. I'd recommend using a spread of 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe with a Jolly Nature, over the spread that you currently have. What this enables Mega Scizor to do is outpace max-Speed Jolly Crawdaunt, and, the additional bulk changes Mega Scizor's chances of living two full-powered Draco Meteors from 2.3% to a whopping 96.1%. The damage loss from switching natures isn't really substantial, especially considering one of the biggest boons of running Adamant is to get better rolls on Rotom-W with +2 Bug Bite, which in any case, is a Pokemon that this team has no trouble pressuring through the combination of your rain abusers+Toxic Politoed.

->
I'd recommend switching out Kyurem-B to a bulky Life Orb Latias with a spread of 160 HP / 96 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid Nature, and a moveset of Draco Meteor / Thunderbolt | Thunder / Roost / Healing Wish. What the spread does is allow Latias to avoid the 2HKO from Specs Keldeo's Icy Wind, whilst still providing significant offensive presence, and hitting that nice 110 Speed-tier. Draco Meteor it a hard-hitting STAB move, Electric coverage seems off but it's to aid Mega Scizor in sweeping by significantly weakening Skarmory, one of Scizors roadblocks in the tier, Roost is for added longevity, and Healing Wish is a cool move that acts as a final gambit to bring back one of your weakened sweepers, be it Kabutops, Kingdra, or Mega Scizor. Latias also provides a solid check to the aforementioned Electric-type Pokemon.

->
Next up, I'd recommend changing Azelf to a defensive/offensive hybrid of Landorus-T with a spread of 24 HP / 240 Atk / 148 Def / 96 Spe and an Adamant Nature, and a moveset of Swords Dance / Stealth Rock / Smack Down / Earthquake and a Lum Berry as its held item. The defensive investment is basically an optimised spread for avoiding the 2HKO from Life Orb Excadrill's Iron Head after Stealth Rock damage, the Speed investment allows it to Speed-creep defensive Zapdos, and, subsequently hit it with an Earthquake after a Smack Down, and the remaining EVs were dumped into Attack to make it hit as hard as possible. Swords Dance is used in conjunction with Lum Berry to force out Mega Sableye, giving you the opportunity to set up rocks, but it also allows you to break down standard F/W/G balance teams considering Landorus-T's impressive attack stat; Stealth Rock is self-explanatory, and Earthquake is necessary strong and reliable STAB for Landorus-T to fire off, especially in conjunction with Smack Down.

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Encore
- Rest

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Low Kick

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 160 HP / 96 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Roost
- Healing Wish

Landorus-Therian @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 24 HP / 240 Atk / 148 Def / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock
- Smack Down
- Earthquake
Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance

You could probably get away without running Superpower on Scizor anymore, seeing as you have Low Kick to pressure Ferrothorn and most Heatran these days are max-Speed. Roost would give you a means of sticking around throughout the match and providing more defensive utility.

I think these changes improve the match-up this team has against a lot of the relevant meta threats, and overall make the team stronger. Enjoy, and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to shoot me a PM :]
Hey, and thanks for the really detailled answer and the offer to DM you! If you don't mind, I'd like to discuss it publically though, in case some other people are lurking, who might be interested in our results too :D

You brought up a lot of good points, and reminded me again that I should start checking my EV spreads for 1/2HKOs, instead of just checking type/threat coverage... I keep telling myself that, but keep ignoring it when building a new team ^^ Anyways, on to the actual points:

I thought about Low Kick on Kabutops too first, but since I had M-Scizor already, who can get rid of Ferrothorn with Superpower, I thought it wasn't necessary. I need to check your "new" EV spread on Scizor and if he's still able to do that, but if he can, I think I should stick to Aqua Jet. The reason for that is because it can give me the edge when facing another priority user, to "out-priority" the enemy in rain, no?

About having a Crawdaunt counter... is it actually that common on ladder? :o I almost never met it before in OU, but maybe I was just lucky. I see your point about Keldeo and Latios destroying me though, so I'll definitely change my Scizor EVs. The only problem I have with it, is... if I want Latias as a check to Keldeo... why don't I run Psyshock as one of its moves? Maybe I'm missing something here, but that seemed like an auto-include if I want to use Latias. I agree with the other move choices though, giving Latias Electric coverage seems totally right, especially Thunder.

And for the last spot, I never actually thought Sand Rush Excadrill would trouble me too much, unless I get outplayed af in terms of weather setting? But if it really is, then the inclusion of Landorus looks reasonable like that, indeed.

Once again, thanks for your detailled reply! It helped me a lot, and please let me know what you think about the points I made here :)
 
Something else... If I replace Kabutops with Mega-Swampert and Mega-Scizor with another steel type... let's say... ferrothorn? That would make my team a lot better vs Sand, no?
 
Alright, I made the changes you suggested, this is the current form of the team:

Politoed (F) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Encore
- Rest

Kabutops (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Low Kick

Kingdra (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Scizor-Mega (F) @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Bug Bite

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 160 HP / 96 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Roost
- Healing Wish

Landorus-Therian @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 24 HP / 240 Atk / 148 Def / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock
- Smack Down
- Earthquake


Going to try it on ladder now, I'll let you know how it went and what I had problems with :)
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top