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You have a strategy? What strategy?

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Punchshroom, Jun 16, 2013.

  1. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,948
    Hi guys, long time since I've been on the RMT forums. Here I present a Doubles Team with the primary intention of f**king up the opposing team's strategy and then overwhelm them with my team's powerful attacks before they can respond in turn. Enjoy!

    Teambuilding Process:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    First thing I wanted to do was to screw with weather. Sun, Rain and Sand all have very powerful abusers like Venusaur, Victini, Ludicolo, Kingdra, Excadrill and whatnot, but Hail has been left behind the 'diamond' dust. Wanting to be anti-meta, Abomasnow led the team off.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    My next step involved Trick Room, which turns the speedsters of the pokemon world into sitting ducks, allowing Abomasnow the chance to actually use Blizzard. Reuniclus was a perfect fit as its Magic Guard negated Hail and resists Fighting, while Conkledurr seemed very natural as a partner with its Dark, Bug and Rock resistances and high physical damage output, with Drain Punch being its countermeasure against Hail damage.

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    I looked for other pokemon that are not bothered by Hail. Escavalier immediately sprung to mind, with Overcoat offsetting Hail damage. Escavalier is also a potent weapon against Cresselia, who otherwise walls my team's attacks seamlessly. The brute force of its Megahorn can seriously dent many pokemon, and Hail chip damage is merely icing on the cake, shaving off more health against resists.

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    A Trick Room team would of course like another Trick Room setter. Chandelure is the perfect fit of power and defensive utility my team appreciates, with crucial Fire, Bug, Fighting and Steel resists that allow it to set up on pokemon that Reuniclus could not. Flash Fire is a massive boon against Fire-type assaults, particularly Sun teams, and its Ghost-typing means that Fake Out isn't an issue in terms of setting up. Its power after a Flash Fire and Sun boost is also pretty astonishing to say the least.

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    The sixth member of my team is the toughest to call. I was employing Hail, but by the looks of things I was only using it to cancel opposing weather and get extra damage, nothing more. I decided to have my last member make use of Hail, namely Glaceon or one of the Kyurems. Despite possessing the weakest Blizzard among the three, Kyurem-B is the most unpredictable, meaning that netting a kill or even cleaning a game with it is not hard at all. The insane bulk it has for a sweeper is nice too.

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    Conkeldurr was pretty good, but I'd like a bit more utility and not be completely helpless before a Cresselia, which really annoyed me since I often pair Conk with Reuniclus who is also walled. I decided Hitmontop's utility in Fake Out would help me set up Trick Room much more easily as well as Feint to ensure kills. While it did okay at either job, it feels like I was playing 5-6 as Hitmontop really didn't do much else, even though it had a maximum invested STAB Close Combat for good damage output, plus it didn't fix my Cress issues.

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    I couldn't believe I didn't think of this before. Any and all worries of Cresselia walling my ideal start are pretty much dashed since Reuniclus doesn't have to worry about Cress as Scrafty manhandles her, and I still have the utility of Fake Out to better ensure Trick Room goes up.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Escavalier may hit like a nuke, but its limited coverage held the team back when it came to sweeping the opponent clean and offered little support. I decided to try Amoonguss for a dedicated support mon to boost my consistency, and never looked back.


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    The premise of this team centers around stopping the opponent's weather or Tailwind strategies, and then crush them with the aid of Hail and Trick Room, with the former aiding in extra damage and 100% accurate Blizzards and the latter turning my snail-paced team into speed demons. Even the 'half-mirror' match is in my favor as they usually don't have the means to combat Hail or Trick Room.

    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Blizzard / Wood Hammer / Protect / Focus Blast
    My main stop against Rain and to an extent Sand, Abomasnow may be plagued by 7 weaknesses but that doesn't mean you should take it lightly. It boasts impressive coverage with STAB Ice and Grass attacks, threatening many pokemon that reside in Rain and Sand. STAB Blizzards are still a force to be reckoned with, as it can wreck the common Ground-type + Flying-type combo and nail Dragons. I originally had Giga Drain, but found that it instead of preserving my weather sweeper, I can benefit more if I get rid of their weather sweeper with a much more powerful attack, even if it costs me health or Abomasnow itself. Grass's targets are generally more specially defensive anyway, such as Politoed, Tyranitar under Sand, Vaporeon and Rindo Berry Gastrodon.

    Focus Blast is used to dent Steels like Heatran and Ferrothorn, though a good number of options can go in that slot. Leech Seed went in that slot before but its effects were much too slow to be notable. I'm considering Brick Break as a way to surprise Dual Screens, one of the few strategies this team cannot stop. It does piddly to Steels though, and having 2 physical moves on a special set is less than ideal so I would have to gravitate to a physical set that can use Ice Shard, but losing Blizzard would hurt.

    [​IMG]
    Reuniclus @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Trick Room / Psychic / Focus Blast / Protect
    A powerful, bulky and reliable Trick Roomer, what's not to love? How about no damage from either Hail or Life Orb? Reuniclus commonly kickstarts the match by twisting the dimensions and the twisting its opponents inside out with incredibly strong boosted attacks. Many fast frail sweepers such as Jolteon or Salamence easily fall prey to Reuniclus, and even bulkier opponents can take a beating. Psychic is used over Psyshock for a clean OHKO on Conkeldurr, and is generally stronger partly because of greater base power. Focus Blast is used over Shadow Ball because Dark-types are a much greater to my team than Psychics, primarily because Chandelure can take on Psychics but not Darks.

    [​IMG]
    Scrafty (M) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Fake Out / Crunch / Drain Punch / Detect
    Reuniclus's partner in crime. Fake Out and Intimidate go such a long way in maintaining Trick Room, but its typing is also excellent for the job. Crunch is used to tear apart the Psychics and Ghosts that attempt to stop Reuniclus's rampage, while Drain Punch hits Darks, combos great with Crunch and keeps it alive and healthy under Hail. Even in lategame where Scrafty could be near dead, Fake Out and Intinidate remain useful throughout the game and can be worth preserving if it means you get to use Trick Room one last time. High defenses on both ends certainly help Scrafty's case.

    [​IMG]
    Amoonguss @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 212 HP / 108 Def / 188 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Spore / Rage Powder / Giga Drain / Protect
    This hell spawn of a mushroom has been the bane of many Doubles players, be it beginner or veteran. Amoonguss in most cases ensure I get Trick Room up safely. If Amoonguss proceeds to survive the turn, which it usually will, it can put a threat out of commission with Spore, suppoert further with more Rage Powders, or even pitch it with its STAB Grass moves that can annoy bulky Pokemon like Rotom-W or Gastrodon. Regenerator is also more fantastic on this thing than you'd imagine, it basically gives Amoonguss a second chance to Rage Powder some more, tanking resisted Electric, Water and Fighting attacks much more easily after getting a third of its health back.

    The EVs allow Amoonguss to take any hit from Dragon Gem Latios. Any. Psyshock, Dragon Gem Draco Meteor, Psychic, not a OHKO (LO Psychic-type attacks can net a maximum of 25% chance to OHKO). This is a pretty amazing feat for a Pokemon who not only isn't resistant to Latios's attacks but also weak to them. Since all Amoonguss does is support, it can get in the way when it's done its job, therefore it'll have to switch out to let a teammate come in so the double whammy can commence: this is why Regenerator's sweet bonus is much appreciated. 3 of my Pokemon are weak to Fighting attacks, so Amoonguss does a marvelous job at keeping them at bay, cockblocking Breloom, Terrakion, Scrafty and of course Hitmontop. Luring things like Shadow Balls, Taunts and Rain boosted Hydro Pumps away from my Trick Room setters is also really helpful in maintaining my advantage over the opponent.

    [​IMG]
    Chandelure @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Trick Room / Heat Wave / Shadow Ball / Protect
    My best (only) insurance against Sun, Chandelure either deters the use of Fire moves (good news for Esca and Aboma) or punishes them greatly with doubly (triply with Sun) boosted hits, which is really scary. As the only other Trick Roomer of the team, Chandelure plays a key part in my gameplan, even though it is generally not as 'safe' as Reuniclus. Its STABs are great for plowing through offensive teams, and is my best stop against Steels which trouble a good portion of my team.

    Fire Gem is used for all-out initial power, raising the power of double-target Heat Wave to near Fire Blast levels. Yeah, you're hitting 2 targets with Fire Blast off 145 base SpAtk at the same time. What's more, it can get stronger with a Flash Fire boost, Sun boost, or god forbid both (lord help my opponent should this occur). Shadow Ball is yet another way of dealing with Cress, and reliably finishes off targets if Fire Gem is consumed or if under Rain. There is no room for Imprison on this set, but there is usually no need for me to prevent Trick Room from going up really.

    [​IMG]
    Kyurem-Black @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Blizzard / Fusion Bolt / Earth Power / Protect
    This monstrosity is this team's definition of "trump card". Once it comes out, it almost always snags a kill, if not clean out the game. Its unpredictablity is truly what makes it dangerous, I bet you didn't expect Kyurem-B to have no Dragon move did you? This is because I want Kyurem-B to hit as much things as it can super effectively or at least have awesome neutral coverage, and the only things Dragon is hitting for more are Kingdra, Lati@s and opposing Ice-types, which are handled by the rest of my team. STAB Blizzards as aforementioned can lay the hurt on both opponents, but Kyurem-B possess some clutch moves that can easily swing the match to my favor against unsuspecting opponents.

    Despite having almost no Attack investment, Kyurem-B is still physically stronger than max invested Jolly Salamence, so it still has incredible power. This power, combined with Electric Gem, allows its Fusion Bolt to utterly break targets such as bulky Waters, Gyarados, Volcarona and Togekiss which can be pains for my team to bring down. Earth Power is used against Heatran who greatly troubles me otherwise, easily luring it out for a OHKO. Better yet, Kyurem-B is such a hilariously good stop against Rotom-W. Resisting its dual STABs and strikes it super effectively, all while possessing perfect neutral coverage? Yes please. Kyurem-B also has some amazing bulk for an offensive pokemon, so he will be KOing a good deal of things before going down itself.

    New Members:
    Team 1.2

    [​IMG]
    Bronzong @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Trick Room / Gyro Ball / Imprison / Protect
    Fantastic defensive typing, bulk and Levitate make Bronzing an adequate Trick Room user, replacing Reuniclus in this team. It provides a very important Dragon, Flying and Ground resist/immunity, but more importantly it isn't weak to Dark and Ghost attacks like my other TRers are, so my opponents would have to lead differently if they expect to stop both my TRers. With access to Imprison, Bronzong can stop anti-Trick Roomers such as Cresselia and Jirachi, as well as preventing Protects to drain out Trick Room. The main thing I dislike about Bronzong is that it is pretty deadweight against anything that resists Steel, such as Rain teams, Heatran, and Thundurus, but it is still good support for the team. Due to the fact that it will be supporting most of the time, Mental herb is the item of choice so that it doesn't become deadweight when Taunted or Encored. EVs allow Bronzong to survive a +1 Hydro Pump from Rotom-W in the rain.

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    Rhydon @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Lightningrod
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Earthquake / Rock Slide / Megahorn / Protect

    Eviolite Rhydon grants me a physical tank and is bar none one of the best weapons to use against Tornadus. It is also bulky enough to tank Ice Shards, Mach Punches and Bullet Punches, while pounding its opponents with powerful dual STAB spread coverage. Megahorn is awesome for skewering Cresselia and lands a solid hit on Latios and Breloom as well. It replaces Kyurem-Black as the team's main damage dealer and spread move user. Lightningrod is great for redirecting Electric attacks, commonly aimed at its main partner...



    [​IMG]
    Togekiss @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Air Slash / Follow Me / Helping Hand / Recover

    Togekiss replaces Amoonguss as the team's 'redirector'. Follow Me is a very safe way to ensure Trick Room goes up, and Togekiss has more than enough bulk to take those hits. The main difference between Amoonguss and Togekiss in terms of support is that Togekiss disables opponents via Air Slash. It only happens ~60% of the time, but Togekiss has greater offensive potential and can do good damage even against neutral targets, something the mushroom cannot boast. It also has Helping Hand and a Flying-typing, meaning it makes for a perfect candidate to boost Rhydon's Earthquakes and tear through the opponents. EVs survive Rock Gem Terrak Rock Slide, CB Victini V-create, Dragon Gem Latios Draco Meteor, Thundurus Thunderbolt.
    Team 1.3

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    Cresselia @ [​IMG] (maybe[​IMG])
    Trait: Telepathy
    EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Trick Room / Psyshock / Helping Hand / Protect (maybe Safeguard)
    Cresselia is pretty much the epitome of bulk in all of Doubles. Naturally this lends itself nicely when it comes to setting up Trick Room. Possessing Levitate and Helping Hand, she like Togekiss before her can support the team's Ground-type, this time being Rhyperior, spam those powerful Earthquakes to demolish almost everything. Lum Berry is nice for dodging Spores, though Cresselia can opt for Safeguard for the same effect (and blocks Amoonguss completely for the most part) while saving up the item slot for Sitrus Berry or Mental Herb, but at the cost of the ever useful Protect. EVs are set so Cresselia can avoid being 2HKOed by Tyranitar's Crunch (if Sitrus Berry is used), the rest in SpD to take weather-boosted moves better. Even if Sitrus isn't used, the distribution in bulk is well-rounded enough anyway, as it avoids the OHKO from unboosted Escavalier. It replaces Togekiss on this team, who initially replaced Amoonguss, meaning this team does not have a redirector.

    [​IMG]
    Hariyama @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Close Combat / Fake Out / Stone Edge / Detect

    Hariyama is the offensive Fake Out user on the team, because Scrafty isn't meant to sweep anyone. Basically, Hariyama disables the opponent, Trick Room & Toxic Orb are activated at the end of the turn, then Hariyama goes to town. Stone Edge is used over Ice Punch since Abomasnow already covers Landorus-Therian, so Stone Edge is used to pummel Gyarados, Thundurus and Volcarona. EVs into Defense since HP is already so huge.

    [​IMG]
    Jellicent @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpA
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Trick Room / Water Spout / Shadow Ball / Recover

    Replacing Chandelure as the Fake Out-immune Trick Roomer on the team. It still deals with Fire-types like Heatran and Volcarona well, if not better, and grants me a favorable matchup against Rain as well as Sand, and the cost of being much less effective against Sun and Steel-types. I don't have Protect on this thing which is pretty risky, but Recover is essential to keep Water Spout strong. EVs live a Crunch off of Tyranitar.


    [​IMG]

    Rhydon @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Lightningrod
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Earthquake / Rock Slide / Megahorn / Protect

    The main reason you'd use Rhyperior over Rhydon in Doubles is to make use of its extra power (don't let me catch you using type-resist berries!). The ability to use Gems is a big factor to this, as it grants Rhyperior some serious damage output when the time is right. A Ground Gem is used over a Rock Gem because Rock Slide is more easily spammable due to EQ hurting most of you dudes, so it is wise to save up your Gem for when you really need it. Like Togekiss+Rhydon, Cresselia is Rhyperior's partner in crime, dishing out crazy amounts of hurt with a Helping Hand-boosted Ground Gem STAB Earthquake. Yowza. Ocassionally I use Solid Rock since opponents rarely try to use Electric moves when Rhyperior is on the field (even if Jellicent is), in which case the greater resistance to super effective hits is much appreciated.


    Replaced team members:
    Show Hide

    upload_2006-1-1_1-21-22.jpeg
    Escavalier @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Overcoat
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    Megahorn/ Iron Head / Double-Edge / Protect
    If Scrafty is a defensive tank, Escavalier is the offensive tank. Its capability to tank a hit or two and deal massive damage right back to KO a threat is greatly valued by the team. Often my go-to guy if I want to get rid of a problem poke or want a good pivot, Escavalier can survive blows, zoom past enemies under Trick Room (like it's supposed to in the anime), and skewers foes left and right. It's only flaw is its mediocre coverage, but if it hits a threat neutrally it's taking a ton of damage.

    Megahorn punches through Cresselia, Lati@s and friends while Iron Head is for accurate STAB. Escavalier's sparse movepool means not much can replace Double-Edge (I so would've chosen Brick Break if it had it) aside from stuff like Knock Off, Toxic or Quick Guard, all of which are situationally useful, but Double-Edge gives Esca a way to retaliate against foes such as Zapdos, Volcarona and Gyarados which can threaten my team greatly if I don't get rid of them ASAP. I originally had Sitrus Berry over Lum, but Esca is a pretty big target for status, particularly burn or sleep, considering how hard it is to KO with neutral attacks.

    The main reason I got rid of Escavalier is that it doesn't add much to offensive synergy. The huge damage on Cress and Reuniclus are very nice, but it doesn't pair too well with any member on the team due to its limited coverage holding the team back from a clean sweep, and it doesn't support well either. In the end, I chose Amoonguss's great consistency factor over it.

    [​IMG]
    Conkeldurr @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Drain Punch / Rock Slide / Wide Guard / Mach Punch
    Not to say Conkeldurr is bad, in fact it pulls its weight in a good number of matches. However, while Conkeldurr has power and survivability, it doesn't help that well with the consistency of the team. It is really how bulky Psychics easily block my primary starting duo in Reuniclus and Conkeldurr that I decided that my Fighting-type of choice shouldn't be deadweight in these sort of scenarios.

    [​IMG]
    Hitmontop @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Fake Out / Feint / Close Combat / Detect
    The spinning legs of pain scream 'utility' to the extreme. It has a whole plethora of useful support options that can benefit almost any team in some way. Here, I decided that the offensive nature of my team would like either free turns bought by Fake Out, buffers due to Intimidate, and guaranteed KOs with Feint to stop Protect. However, Hitmontop kinda fell behind because it really can't seem to fend too well for itself, with its STAB (it's either CC or Hi Jump Kick) compromising its good bulk. Since its primary (only) job is to support its teammates, I feel like I'm starting with a 5-6 disadvantage, as Hitmontop usually loses if it is the last one standing. It's only until I remembered Scrafty, a fellow Fake Outting Fighting-type, is not only part Dark but knows Drain Punch that I decided to give Hitmontop the boot.


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    Voila, the team(s) that shot me up into top 3! Have fun and enjoy if you decide to give this team a whirl!
    Team 1 (open)

    Yeti for President (Abomasnow) @ Grass Gem
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Blizzard
    - Wood Hammer
    - Protect
    - Ice Shard

    Fire in the Soul (Chandelure) @ Fire Gem
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Heat Wave
    - Shadow Ball
    - Protect

    The Idiot Test (Amoonguss) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 212 HP / 108 Def / 188 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Spore
    - Rage Powder
    - Giga Drain
    - Protect

    Got Belts? (Scrafty) (M) @ Chople Berry
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Fake Out
    - Crunch
    - Drain Punch
    - Detect

    Squishy~ (Reuniclus) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Protect

    Frozen Bolt (Kyurem-Black) @ Electric Gem
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Blizzard
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Earth Power
    - Protect


    Team 2 (open)

    Yeti for President (Abomasnow) @ Grass Gem
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Blizzard
    - Wood Hammer
    - Protect
    - Ice Shard

    Fire in the Soul (Chandelure) @ Fire Gem
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Heat Wave
    - Shadow Ball
    - Protect

    Serenity (Togekiss) (F) @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Air Slash
    - Follow Me
    - Helping Hand
    - Protect

    Got Belts? (Scrafty) (M) @ Chople Berry
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Fake Out
    - Crunch
    - Drain Punch
    - Detect

    Ding Dong Mofo (Bronzong) @ Mental Herb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Gyro Ball
    - Imprison
    - Protect

    Not a Weepin Angel (Rhydon) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Lightningrod
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Megahorn
    - Protect


    Team 3 (open)

    Yeti for President (Abomasnow) @ Grass Gem
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Blizzard
    - Wood Hammer
    - Protect
    - Ice Shard

    Jelly of my Stache? (Jellicent) (M) @ Water Gem
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Water Spout
    - Shadow Ball
    - Recover
    - Trick Room

    The Idiot Test (Amoonguss) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 212 HP / 108 Def / 188 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Spore
    - Rage Powder
    - Giga Drain
    - Protect

    Death by High Five (Hariyama) (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Fake Out
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Detect

    I made "Portals" (Cresselia) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Psyshock
    - Protect
    - Helping Hand

    Needs More Drills (Rhyperior) @ Ground Gem
    Trait: Lightningrod
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Megahorn
    - Protect
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,561
    Punchshroom, thanks for sharing this RMT! It's a pretty solid team, but I think your team has trouble against Fire-types, namely Heatran and Chandelure. Your main answer to these Fire-types is your Chandelure, who doesn't exactly scratch Heatran or appreciate a STAB Shadow Ball to the face. Having Abomasnow and Escavalier only exacerbates this problem.

    I think you should mitigate this weakness by replacing Escavalier for a more fire-resistant mon. This will be a controversial idea, but what about Snorlax? With Thick Fat, Snorlax shrugs off Fire-type like nothing, and it can tank a Draco Meteor like Escavalier if it has to. Snorlax has beefy 110 Attack and has some nifty options like Selfdestruct / Counter / Curse that you may want to try out. I have no experience with Snorlax in Doubles, so take this suggestion with a grain of salt, but I think it fits this Hail Trick Room theme well. Just to get you started, here's a sample set to test out:
    Snorlax (open)
    [​IMG]
    Snorlax @ Chople Berry / Expert Belt / Silk Scarf / Quick Claw
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 236 Atk / 52 Def / 220 SpD
    Brave Nature
    - Return
    - Earthquake / Superpower
    - Counter / Blizzard / Crunch / Self-Destruct
    - Protect

    Lots of options for this mon. Earthquake is primary slashed, because it hits both Heatran and Chandelure for super-effective damage. However, if you don't like spread moves hurting your own mons, you can go with Superpower (for Heatran) and Crunch (for Chandelure). Counter is nice to take advantage of Snorlax's gigantic HP; with Chople Berry, Snorlax can even tank a +1 Close Combat from Terrakion at full health. The defensive EVs also allow Snorlax to tank a Gem-boosted Draco Meteor from Latios with plenty of health to spare, surviving the second -2 Draco Meteor with ease. Blizzard is mainly for Landorus-T that would otherwise be a nuisance to Snorlax. STAB Self-Destruct is super-strong coming from Snorlax, but the risk is also quite big

    If you want a more conventional answer to Fire-types, you can try Tyranitar, who can also tank a Draco Meteor. Tyranitar needs Sandstream if it wants to tank hits like Draco Meteor for the team, though, and that would eliminate Hail.

    Another option is Shuca Berry Heatran. Whether you want it to be a fast variant that can work outside of Trick Room or a slow variant that works inside of Trick Room is up to you. I am particularly partial to the Shuca Tran or Snorlax > Escavalier.
  3. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Tbh I had little trouble with most Fire-types as its mere presence can prevent the savvy player from spamming Heat Waves or severely punish the more reckless one, but you're right that they can be problems sometimes.

    The thing about Escavalier is that it is an Overcoat mon that just happens to smash bulky Psychics like Cresselia, Reuniclus, Latias and to a certain extent Jirachi, so my replacement should be able to handle these threats as well. It should also be able to handle Genesect and Jirachi better because they are giant assholes.

    Snorlax is an noteworthy choice, I won't be using Earthquake on it though as my team isn't equipped to handle self-spread attacks (Vaporeon was a strong contender before this, but I didn't like Muddy Water as my chances of hitting both opponents were pretty low) with the possible exception of Selfdestruct, which is a big bang kind of thing so I don't have to Protect consecutively. It certainly has the bulk to last and alleviates my Ghost weakness (Gengar + Focus Blast) so I will definitely consider it.

    ShucaTran is even more appealing, as it walks over Steels such as Genesect, Ferrothorn and Jirachi that my team dislikes, and is extra insurance against Sun and better insurance against opposing Hail. Standing up to Dragons is always a nice thing and would go seamlessly over Esca's tanking role. The only problem is that it opens me up to Rain, arguably one of my trickier matchups, and while Chandy can at least fall back on STAB Shadow Ball, Heatran becomes deadweight with only unSTABed 90 base power moves as its strongest attacks, while Esca can still skewer faces and actually be an asset against Rain as opposed to a liability thanks to Rain not packing any Fire move.

    Tyranitar is easily the most controversial choice as you pointed out. While it is the most well-rounded and versatile of the replacements, it would drastically restructure my team, most notable Kyurem-Black who dislikes Sandstorm. While dual weather can screw with Sun and Rain, as well as Sand beefing T-Tar's bulk to take Meteors and whatnot, the risk of detracting from my primary offense (BlizzSpam) can hold this team back and thus my team would need many changes to get back on the offensive properly.

    It is interesting to note that all of your suggestions leave me wide open to Fighting-types, so there is the possible scenario that none of your changes would be implemented if it becomes problematic :/
  4. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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  5. Nollan

    Nollan EV Master Nollan
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    One thing I opted for when I ran a team like this was Togekiss. Sure, it's now the slowest Follow Me/Rage Powder abuser in the box. But with Amoonguss, you have a crippling Tornadus weakness, as it hits 3 of your mons for OHKOs and pressures you not to bring in Scrafty, as at +1, it will blow a hole in every member of your team. Togekiss is nice because it does not compound this, can use Follow Me, and has some potential offensive value thanks to its notable 120 base SpA. At the same time, you have a Rock-type weakness that Togekiss would compound (the Rock-weakness also needs some attending to imo). :[

    Jellicent might be an option over Chandelure here. Thanks to Water Spout, it can hit very hard, not to mention it has efficient 100/70/105 defenses as well as Recover or Will O' Wisp.

    Jellicent (open)

    [​IMG]
    Jellicent @ Water Gem
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpA
    Quiet Nature
    - Water Spout
    - Shadow Ball
    - Recover
    - Trick Room

    This is a standard offensive set. The EVs live a Crunch off of Tyranitar, but you can just go for 252 in Special Attack if you aren't very concerned about it. Recover heals you back up so Hail damage won't be an issue and keeps Water Spout usable. While you may think finding the time for Recover is difficult, in playtesting I have found that the other sweeper can usually snag at least one KO if not more, not to mention Trick Room will get you multiple double Protects, presenting an opportunity to Recover.


    Some other options to consider might include Marowak/Rhyperior/Rhydon or Bronzong

    The first three are all powerful Lightningrod attackers that could possibly be used over Kyurem-B. They would be very useful if you were to opt on Jellicent and less if you don't. They all are heavy hitters (Marowak especially) that present powerful offensive presence. Earthquake will also destroy teams alongside Blizzard. I'm more inclined on using Rhydon or Rhyperior on this team however, as they can put a stop to Tornadus. If you don't opt to use Jellicent, running Solid Rock on Rhyperior is certainly an option as well.

    Bronzong is a choice I like because it is not weak to the same attacks as conventional Trick Room setters. This means that you can choose one or the other as a lead based on the opposition's team, keeping things versatile. I like Bronzong > Reuniclus for a couple reasons. The most notable is Reuniclus's Taunt/Spore weakness. Sure, you have Amoonguss, but if the opponent can OHKO it, they can hit Reuniclus with Taunt or Spore (i.e. a classical Tornadus + Breloom core). Bronzong can run either Mental Herb or Lum Berry for these situations. You can always run these items on Reuniclus if you prefer it over Bronzong (which I obviously don't). Don't mistake Bronzong for lacking offensive abilities though, as a Zen Headbutt or Gyro Ball will hurt and it has several options for slot 3, such as Earthquake (I tried out Imprison one time since it could stop the opponent from reversing Trick Room).


    Finally, some move suggestions. A possibility for Abomasnow is Giga Drain > Wood Hammer, which allows it to abuse Focus Sash (which I believe is one of its best items to run). I also highly recommend Ice Shard > Focus Blast. The priority is important, allowing you to hit first outside of Trick Room and outspeed Breloom's Mach Punch in it (which is very nice). Focus Blast also is p. unreliable and I don't see why Steel-types would be a problem granted you have Scrafty and Chandelure on the team, and Earth Power Kyurem-B (oh and Focus Blast Reuniclus too :s). Ice Shard would be best used on the standard Sash set:
    Sash Abomasnow (open)

    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Quiet Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain / Grass Knot
    - Ice Shard
    - Protect

    Already explained everything here, more or less.


    Finally, Sitrus Berry > Black Sludge on Amoonguss. I don't really think this one needs to be explained.

    Note that I'm not saying your team needs to be changed up a bunch, these are just options I think should be considered. The only things I legitimately am not a fan of are A) Reuniclus (which is more of a preference thing, it's probably perfectly usable here) and B) Kyurem-Black. Kyu-B seems weird to me, Abomasnow is there (at least from my angle) to counter weathers, not create weather for a team. I think one of the above Ground-types (Marowak/Rhydon/Rhyperior) would make for a better option, as Earthquake gives the team a very powerful offensive presence (thanks to the Ice/Ground spread attack combo). You would need to shift the team around a bit to accommodate Earthquake though, mostly getting some immunities to it on the team.
  6. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Yeah, Tornadus is a gigantic dick to deal with for me (thankfully a good Blizzard sets it straight). Togekiss is certainly an interesting choice, it's slow enough for TR (though usually not enough for flinches) and has decent offensive presence as you've mentioned. The biggest thing I like about Kiss is that it can trouble Ghost-types into not hitting my TR setters (Scrafty can't Fake Out them), can boost spread moves via helping Hand and Air Slash can be a 'makeshift Spore' to disable opponents, albeit momentarily. The Rock weakness and lack of Regenerator is certainly something to account for, but I'll definitely give Kiss a shot!

    Chandelure is not only on the team to ward off Fighting and Fire attacks, its main job is to roast Steels like Jirachi and Metagross that would prove to be absolute pains for much of my team to overcome. Chandelure also takes a giant dump on Sun and sometimes opposing Hail. I've definitely considered Jellicent for those resistances and a better matchup against Volcarona, but Water Spout Jellicent I feel is under quite a bit of pressure from Hail to to really do work. It does synergize well with Amoonguss, but since you recommended Togekiss over it first (which I'm genuinely interested in trying out) I'll try out Jellicent later.

    Earthquake users were on the forefront on my mind when I first started building this team, but as you can see my team is currently ill-equipped to allow them to start spamming EQs alongside their partners. Togekiss or Musharna would make decent partners for them though, so they are definitely still in the running. Obviously I'll run Togekiss over Amoonguss alongside these EQers, so Marowak is out. I think I might try Rhyperior due to its access to Gems, though Eviolite Rhydon, who is slower, can't hurt either (doesn't Eviolite outclass Solid Rock anyway lol?). Either way, smashing Steels and Volc is nice.

    I use Reuniclus primarily for its sweeping potential and weather immunity, so using Bronzong can slow me down a bit in terms of offense and force me to play more defensively (not something I want for a Trick Room user) since Bronzong lacks both OHKO potential and many support options. Its STABs are nifty though and it has a good slew of resistances, so it is still a solid option over Musharna which I've considered prior.

    I admit Focus Blast was more of a paranoid option ever since Laga screwed me over with his Substitute Heatran. Ice Shard is definitely a good option to consider otherwise so I'll switch that back (though KOing Bisharps is sweetass). Giga Drain over Wood Hammer I'm more hesitant about: since Abomasnow is the team's main answer to Water-types (as well as Kyurem-Black), I want to KO as much of them as possible. Politoed, Suicune, Vaporeon...all would be troublesome if I don't get rid of them, especially the former. Giga Drain doesn't really KO any Water-type bar Gastrodon who can Rindo that shit anyway. Focus Sash is nice, but OHKOing Water-types is nicer for me. If I do get rid of Kyurem-Black, then there's probably even more need for the power since Aboma is literally my only hope.

    I have tried Sitrus Berry prior, but the Hail did take its toll on Amoonguss time and time again. Considering how often I use Regenerator (~2-3 times per battle), Sitrus Berry wasn't missed much. I may not even use Amoonguss after this if Togekiss proves to be superior.

    Yeah Reuniclus is definitely a preference thing (though if you're not using it here, where would you? :P), but the power is definitely much appreciated since the Hail can add more to your damage. Kyurem-Black was initially added to make use of Hail, but found out it makes use of Blizzards and its Water + Electric resistance better than both Aboma and Amoonguss due to its survivability and power, and the fact that it is much faster than most TR teams, meaning I can get right to attacking while they try to set up Trick Room, which puts them on the backfoot. Its coverage is also perfect, so there's that. Nevertheless, I'll take up your suggestions, so thanks a lot~
  7. Aasgier

    Aasgier

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    Its coverage is also perfect, so there's that.[/quote]
    Rotom-H... oh wait Teravolt.

    This team is a beast to face, one of those rare teams that bring my stall-team down on a reliable basis.

    It does have some issues, like Wood Hammer being somewhat troublesome and Focus Blast's shaky accuracy, but when, for example, Grass Gem Giga Drain only deals ~55% to SDef Jellicent, you know you need to have more damage output. Ice Shard instead of Focus Blast looks like an improvement but doesn't help against Stall (which can easily become a dick for this team since it walls four members of this team with ease, even though Scrafty and Chandelure can defeat it).

    This team does have some weaknesses, but I can't see any obvious ones, but things like Defiant Tornadus (or even Braviary) + Snorlax could prove very troublesome as Scrafty and Amoonguss - your only counter and check, respectively, to Snorlax - can't risk switching in on Tornadus, and it is worth noting that Snorlax benefits from Trick Room as well.
  8. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Defiant Tornadus was definitely a big issue, but the addition of Rhyperior (or Bronzong) stopped it cold for the most part.
  9. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Updated new teammates.

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