1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

You're Sure There Are More Than 10 Pokemon?

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Kiyo, Apr 13, 2012.

  1. Kiyo

    Kiyo

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    242
    Hey Everyone, welcome to my rmt. I'm still pretty new to smogon and competitive battling, but I definitely feel like I have a good grasp of the VGC 2012 Metagame. I'm getting really tired of going on PO and seeing literally the exact same team over and over, this really led me to screwing around and making stupid gimmicky teams. Although those teams were fun, they really didnt get much accomplished. So a new team needed to be made (story of my life) and I decided to make it with pokemon that were not traditionally used together.

    So at a glance the team looks a little like this:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Granted Cresselia and Tornadus are both very commonly used, the remaining members dont fall into that category in my opinion (Toxicroak is up there as he's an asset to rain teams, but meh.) Well without further ado, lets get to the team! I'll also cover the teambuilding process along the way.

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-H @ Charti Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Discharge
    - Overheat
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Protect

    Rotom-H was the starting member of this team due to the fact that it completely walls Zapdos! Rotom also has access to Will-O-Wisp which is great for crippling the physical attackers that are everpresent in the metagame, Charti Berry is chosen as the item to allow Rotom to survive a rock slide from any threat barring critical hits and allow him to burn them before they can do any further damage. Discharge is a great move in doubles, it has a 30 % chance to paralyze the opponent (When you do the math that means there is a 51% chance it will paralyze one of your opponents pokemon) which is crucial to slowing speedier threats down and even getting an occasional fully paralyzed (although I never use discharge to rely on the foe becoming fully paralyzed.) Overheat is a good move in general because it can hit almost anything that doesnt resist it for good damage and leave it in the range for Rotom's partner to KO. The Special Attack drop may seem like a burden at first, but it has never really come to hurt me in any match thusfar. The EV's and nature are pretty simple, Max in HP and SpA to allow rotom to tank hits and hit back hard with STAB Overheat or Discharge. Levitate is also a fun ability since those everpresent earthquakes dont even leave a scratch on the posessed toaster.

    [​IMG]
    Krookodile (F) @ Chople Berry
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Earthquake
    - Low Sweep
    - Protect

    Krookodile was the next member of the team. Krookodile made sense to form the core for so many reasons;
    1. He has intimidate support to allow Rotom to take hits even better from the likes of Tyranitar
    2. He is immune to Discharge and packs Earthquake to form the infamous disquake combo
    3. Krook tends to take out the pokes that Rotom has trouble handling on its own, such as Terrakion, SpD Cresselia, and the likes, that laugh off special attacks from Rotom.
    DisQuake is a huge threat in the current metagame and I'm surprised more people arent running it. The combo takes out a considerably large chunk of the top 25 used pokemon in the metagame with ease. Krookodile has usable base speed and tends to outspeed most of the threats it needs to, 92 is a happy medium of sorts and hits about the average of pokemon commonly used in the meta. The EV's are fairly simple again, maximizing overall bulk and attacking prowess. The item choice is Chople due to the fact that even with Intimidate fight gem hitmontop and standard terrakion KO Krookodile before it can do anything significant.

    [​IMG]
    Lanturn (M) @ Rindo Berry
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Discharge
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Protect

    So far the team is having a lot of trouble with water type attacks, both members of the core are weak to them and Rotom only has discharge and protect to run in the rain with much effectiveness (That being said it still OHKOs Scizor in rain with Overheat.) Lanturn is a fun solution to this problem because it not only resists water and ice attacks but it also has the possibility of running water absorb too so errant scalds never really come lanturns way. Ludicolo can be a problem with Giga Drain, but Rindo and a teammate can usually aid lanturn in getting rid of that stupid thing. Lanturn functions well on this team because he can fire off discharges freely with Krookodile on the field and he can take out dragons with ice beam (usually 2HKOs) Lanturn also takes advantage of rain with STAB rain boosted Hydro Pump. The Ev's are used to maximize attacking prowess and overall bulk (noticing a trend?) and I run Volt Absorb to have a safe switch in to thunderwaves and other electric moves, its also a happy coincidence that rotom's discharge has the same healing effect on Lanturn if the two end up on the field at the same time. It's also worth mentioning that lanturn is so light that it can laugh off grass knots.

    [​IMG]
    Toxicroak (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Sucker Punch
    - Drain Punch
    - Protect
    - Fake Out
    Toxicroak is a pretty cool mon, he functions well in the rain, can abuse a focus sash with priority sucker punch and he also has access to fake out. I swear I dont know how many times I've faked out something just to have the opponent double protect, so i originally ran Swords Dance, however too many a tim edid i wish i had protect because croak would be nailed by EQ. Normally I'd run this with substitute over SD but Toxicroak is so frail i find that sash is the best item choice. Even if the opponent attacks toxicroak trheywill have to attack him again the next turn to KO (barring a rare double target or a spread move that KOs the powerful frog) which means they'll have a +2 sucker punch coming their way. Fake Out is there just in case the situation is crucial, such as breaking a suspected sash or stoping TR or Tailwind for a turn. Croak also outspeeds Hitmontop easily so being outsped on FO is not a concern. Drain Punch is there for a reliable STAB move that has the benefit of recovery. The original EV Spread had 252 in HP but i found it a waste considering croak was holding a sash, so into speed the EVs went. Toxicroak is probably the least used member of this team, but he is also a very important part of it.

    [​IMG]
    Cresselia (F) @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 88 SAtk / 40 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Thunder Wave
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic
    - Energy Ball
    Oh Cresselia, the pokemon dreaded most by all VGC players. This thing is a tank and everyone knows it. I run cress with some SpA EVs mainly just to 2HKO 252 HP Hitmontop everytime, thunder wave is an asset to my team as so far its actually pretty slow and somewhat bluffs as a tailwind team with tornadus in team preview. Ice Beam is reliable damage on dragons and flying types and Psychic is good neutral STAB for most types as well as supereffective damage on fighting types. Helping Hand is there to ensure that Cress isnt dead weight on the field when its other 3 attacks basically prove to be pointless, it also scores 2HKOs with discharge that would normally be 3HKOs.
    [​IMG]
    Tornadus (M) @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Acrobatics
    - Taunt
    - Tailwind
    - Protect
    Ah Yeah, mah boi Tornadus. This thing is a boss on my team, Acrobatics literally cleans up the coverage on threats to my team and Hammer Arm is there to score hits on steels and Tyranitars that I dont have Krookodile for late game. Taunt is a nifty move that shuts down support pokemon, and protects (barring mental herb) for five turns, This come in handy against eviolite porygon2 and non mental herb cress and company. Protect is there to shield Tornadus from stray Discharges and Rockslides. The EVs maximize Tornadus' speed and attack since tornadus is weak to many common threats HP investment is less crucial. If there were a VGC version of a revenge killer, Tornadus is definitely mine.

    DEM THREATS:
    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W

    This thing can be a bitch, I have nothing to hit it for SE damage and basically have to sack one of my mons to ensure it doesnt sweep my whole team. If I see Rotom-W in team preview i have to go with lanturn and hope i can KO him with Discharges before he can KO the other members of my team.
    [​IMG]
    Gastrodon

    Once again i have nothing to hit this thing for SE damage and it has such awesome natural bulk that Tornadus is the only thing worth attacking it with for solid neutral damage.
  2. The Knights of Wario Land

    The Knights of Wario Land

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    819
    Hmm, good team I'm seeing here. However, I do have a bit of critique to imput here:

    -With so many type-resist berries on your team, an Unnerve user such as the rare but still very-threatening Aerodactyl will have loads of fun with your team.
    -With already three Fighting-type moves on your Pokemon, I think Krookodile can go without Low Sweep. It's not powerful enough to really do much even to common threats such as Terrakion. Give it Rock Slide, it's one of the best spread moves in the metagame.
    -Toxicroak should 100% be carrying Protect over Swords Dance. Something as frail as this can't really abuse boosting moves due to my experience, and you're gonna want Toxicroak to stick around longer than two turns, trust me.
    -I'd run Icy Wind over Ice Beam, Ice Beam won't really do much to foes that don't take 4x from it, and the foe loosing Speed is an awesome thing.
    -Drop Hammer Arm and Bulk-Up on Tornadus, replace the latter with Taunt seeing as stopping foes from setting up the ever-common Trick Room/Tailwind is awesome, and maybe consider replacing HA with another attacking move or Tailwind.
  3. Ignitrua

    Ignitrua

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    98
    Unnerve is a rather rare ability. Aerodactyl and Galvantula see nearly no play, and Tyranitar is better off with Sand Stream anyways. But yeah, I do agree with the 'croak suggestion, Protect is far more helpful. Also, Ice Beam is still quite helpful on Cress, it's just down to exactly how dragons murder you. And while I don't particularly second dropping Hammer Arm on Tornadus, Tailwind should definately be in there.

    If you're having trouble with Rotom-W and Gastrodon, I recommend a Zapdos with Hidden Power Grass (unless you're really adamant about running the less used pokemon). Electric Gem OHKOs any Rotom-W investing significantly in speed, and Hidden Power Grass is one of those less used attacks for Gastrodon. You can even keep Tailwind!
    The set is:
    Zapdos @ Electric Gem
    Modest: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
    -Thunderbolt
    -Hidden Power [Grass]
    -Heat Wave
    -Tailwind
  4. Kiyo

    Kiyo

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    242
    Thanks for the rate, I'm not too concerned about type resist berries being neutralized but it is something to keep in mind for team preview. I'll try protect over swords dance on toxicroak but in most cases i like that toxicroak is seen as the threat so attacks tend to be directed towards him. I've run protect before actually and I've found that Toxicroak doesnt really stay on the field as long as I'd like even with the extra turn. The reason i run Ice Beam is simple, it breaks subs. Icy Wind on Latios will never break its sub for example, plus other than lanturn its nice to be able to deal damage to some common pokemon. I've tried running tailwind on Tornadus before and found that with all the para discharge is spreading i really outspeed most threats anyways. Taunt is an interesting option that for some reason ive overlooked even though its completly standard, I'll run that. Also rockslide on krookodile is cool and all, but its non stab and with the spread modifier its BP is a whopping 56 which means stab crunch is a better attacking option. Low sweep is a cool move because it leaves the opponent at -1 speed, thats more the reason i picked it. And you mention i have 3 fighting moves on my team already, I always find it interesting how people say this because ive found i never really find a time when those 3 pokes are sent out in the same group so type coverage isnt an issue.
  5. Kiyo

    Kiyo

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    242
    Hammer Arm and Ice Beam are both valuable attacks that I've never looked back on wishing I'd replaced them with other moveslots. Ice Beam breaks subs that icy wind cant, and it also hurts dem dragons. Hammer Arm is important because it deals damage to threats that Tornadus has trouble with ordinarily (and the ones that outspeed will be most likely paralyzed at this point.)
    The suggestion for HP grass Zapdos is cool, but i find the power behind it to be extremely lacking. non STAB base 70 is still a 2HKO on both gastrodon and rotom (seeing as how rotom and gastro normally run max HP. And for the tailwind suggestion, I've never really found myslef in a situation where i felt like tailwind helps me so imo its a waste for this team. This team spreads paralysis so fast it already outspeeds everything.
  6. Dozz

    Dozz Has anyone in this family ever seen a chicken?
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    Okay, the above have really covered a lot of what stuck out to me, but there is one point I'd really like to hammer home. Get a grass move in your team. Also, reconsider some of the above, you have disregarded it a bit too rapidly imho.

    You have identified two major threats to your team, both of which share a common weakness. Even if it is a 2HKO, it's such a great type to have somewhere, Not only will it help against those two threats, but rain teams in general. I know it's lovely to be netting OHKO's, but 2HKO's are just as good at nullifying your threats. I really think there's room for HP grass somewhere at least. Just try it out.

    Also, you seem to have a lot of discharge, but only a couple of good partners. When theres are out of the game, you'll be hurting your frailer mons like tornadus or croak, and putting them at risk of paralysis. Might be an idea to mix it up, and get some thunderbolt in there, even if it doesn't hit both opponents.
  7. Kiyo

    Kiyo

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    242
    What do you think about energy ball over psychic on Cress, or over Helping Hand(I feel as if i underuse it anyways)? I'm going to try energy ball over HH for now. I feel as if thats the best place to fit it in. And The advice with discharge is good I originally ran t bolt on lanturn but I've just been trying discharge, its power is underwhelming anyways so Thunderbolt seems like the better option. And Thanks for the rate
  8. Kiyo

    Kiyo

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    242
    Also I'll toy around with tailwind over hammer arm on Tornadus to see if being less dependent on paralysis makes my playstyle a little safer in general.
  9. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,965
    Just a minor nitpick, on your 252/252 EV spreads you still have 4 EVs left over. It's not much, but I have had Pokémon survive an attack with 1-2 HP left in the past, so 4 EVs actually can make a difference sometimes.

    Also, if you want to use Discharge, and you're still focused on using under-used Pokémon, then how about replacing Cresselia with Musharna? It plays very similarly, trading some of the bulk for more Special Attack. You'd lose Ice Beam, but HP Ice hits just as hard with the extra SpA behind it anyway.
  10. Kiyo

    Kiyo

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    242
    Wow, this never even occurred to me! Thanks for the idea voodoo, I'll definitely try out Musharna. The added SpA will help with KOing Rotom and Gastro more consistently in 2 hits with energy ball. And I'll add the 4 leftover EVs after I'm done testing Musharna
  11. OVERGRO

    OVERGRO

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    320
    Just at a glance, I would go 252 Speed 252 Attack on Krookodile.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)