Zangoose (Update)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by bugmaniacbob, Jun 5, 2009.

  1. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Zangoose is done; awaiting grammar checks, etc.



    Initial Changes:
    • Rewrote entire analysis, except for the EV section which seemed fine as it was. Most of the analyses were limited to 'Skarmory walls it, use anything except this' - so it needed a revamp anyway, really.
    • Added Team Options paragraph in every analysis and separate Team Options section.
    • Added Damage calculations for the Swords Dancer, though I am not sure what tags to use on them. (Tags corrected, thanks to Erazor)
    Stamps:
    [​IMG] (whistle)[​IMG] (Dr. Reid)
    [​IMG]
    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/zangoose
    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    [Overview]

    <p>Shunned and rejected in favor of better options in Standard play, it could be considered a true blessing that Zangoose set his sights lower and plunged into the unsettled waters of the UU tier. Sadly for the demon furball, however, he has failed to make any sort of impact in even this lower metagame and is still ousted from teams in favor of bulkier, faster, or harder-hitting alternatives.</p>

    <p>However, let us not be too hasty in condemning the white wonder to disuse. Though his stats are low, they are distributed excellently; he has a very reliable STAB to use and a collection of moves that back it up with both excellent coverage and desirable boosts. He can run many different movesets, all of which work excellently with a little thought. That said, he is hard to use correctly, but with adequate support, there is very little in UU who can stop him from doing what he was designed to do: cause a lot of damage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Return
    move 3: Close Combat
    move 4: Shadow Claw / Quick Attack
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Zangoose is one of a whole host of physical Normal-type sweepers once deemed too powerful for UU, and have since returned to the tier in order to justify that claim. Unfortunately, though, they have for the most part failed to make any significant impact on the metagame. On paper, Zangoose does not have many distinguishing features to make himself stand out from his Normal-type brethren — Tauros and Ambipom are faster, and Ursaring and Slaking have more initial attack power. However, this should not deter you from using Zangoose — he has above average stats in both Speed and Attack, and has one key factor that makes him exceptional: a very wide physical movepool.</p>

    <p>Swords Dance is the crux of this set, enabling Zangoose to boost his attack power and possibly open up a sweeping opportunity. Return is the given STAB move, boasting both a relatively high Base Power and reliable accuracy. Close Combat is a blessing for Zangoose, as he can retaliate with feeling against Steel- and Rock-types who resist his STAB. The last slot has a number of options going for it; Shadow Claw is likely the superior option as it enables Zangoose to hit frail Ghost-types such as Mismagius for super effective damage; however, Quick Attack can be surprisingly powerful after a Swords Dance and has the potential to KO frailer priority users such as Blaziken and Absol with Stealth Rock support. It also allows Zangoose to get the jump on faster, weakened opponents such as Swellow.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>After a Swords Dance, Zangoose has the ability to break slower walls with relative ease — even with a Jolly nature, just about everyone in UU is at least 2HKOed by him after a Swords Dance, and plenty more Pokemon are OHKOed:</p>

    <h3>Damage Calculations</h3>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 252 Def Bold Milotic: 84.0% - 99.2%</li>
    <li>+1 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 252 Def Impish Hitmontop: 73.0% - 86.2%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Registeel: 120.3% - 141.8%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Steelix: 96.0% - 113.0%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Regirock: 93.4% - 109.9%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 136 HP Rhyperior: 92.1% - 108.4%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Bold Cloyster: 111.8% - 131.6%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Quick Attack vs. 4 HP Alakazam: 115.9% - 136.9%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Quick Attack vs. 4 HP Sceptile: 78.7% - 92.9%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Quick Attack vs. 4 HP Dugtrio: 127.8% - 150.5%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Quick Attack vs. 4 HP Absol: 86.4% - 101.8%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>All of the above calculations were done assuming a Jolly nature. With an Adamant nature, however, Zangoose is guaranteed to OHKO many of these walls with one of his attacks, even without entry hazards, but will fail to outrun faster Pokemon such as positive nature Venusaur and Blaziken. Even so, an Adamant nature can be helpful to assure OHKOs on faster Pokemon with Quick Attack, such as Sceptile. With a Jolly nature, Zangoose has a fair chance to miss an OHKO on many walls, and while they will likely fail to OHKO him with one attack, their attack's damage on top of Life Orb recoil can end his sweep prematurely. Thus, it is recommended strongly that you save Zangoose for lategame when the opponent’s walls have had a chance to accumulate some damage. However, although his Speed is decent, he is outrun and halted by a number of common threats. Drapion, Mismagius, and Rotom all outrun him and, while none of them can OHKO with a single unboosted attack, they highlight the point that Zangoose can easily be revenge killed before he has a chance to sweep. Quick Attack can remedy this, but if you lack Shadow Claw you are setup fodder for Mismagius and Spiritomb. The item choice is also an important one — Life Orb is almost always the best choice, as it gives more power to all of Zangoose’s moves, and without it he can miss some crucial OHKOs. A Jolly nature is best here to outrun neutral base 95s and 100s, such as Drapion and Arcanine, as well as positive nature base 80s like Kabutops and Venusaur. With no EV investment in HP, Zangoose takes minimum damage from indirect damage, such as Stealth Rock and the rare sandstorm.</p>

    <p>Although Zangoose's damage output is spectacular, the process of actually setting up Swords Dance to sweep can be a difficult one. Zangoose has to both switch in, possibly taking entry hazard damage, and set up, giving the opponent two turns in which to end him. Zangoose's defenses are gut-wrenchingly frail even for UU, and even those with the poorest offenses can find a way to damage him, not to mention the fact that even those at the bottom of the offensive barrel, such as Registeel and Chansey, can find a way to ruin him through status afflictions. To help Zangoose set up, you can try to reduce the damage dealt to him by opponents by using dual screens, which can be set up by someone like Uxie, who can also set up Stealth Rock and use Memento to give Zangoose a free switch in. The use of Memento also lowers the opponent's offensive power, forcing them to switch and giving Zangoose that all-important turn to set up. In other situations you can simply wait and sacrifice one of your Pokemon in order to switch Zangoose in for free, or try to clear a hole using Explosion. When Zangoose is actually in play, you will need to find a way to set him up without taking too much damage. Against offensive teams, dual screens support is a great help, and you may also consider Baton Passing a Substitute to Zangoose to protect it from status.</p>

    <p>As for who Zangoose can actually set up on, those Pokemon with mediocre assaults are the best bets, the most notable being Chansey, since Zangoose can take a Seismic Toss and is immune to Toxic (just try to avoid Thunder Wave). You can also try Tricking a weaker Pokemon such as Registeel and letting Zangoose set up on him, but this has a very high chance of failing. If Zangoose can force an opponent out, either because you bluff the intention of attacking (if your opponent's Pokemon is on low health but still needed) or your opponent believes that the appropriate move is to switch to someone bulkier or a faster revenge killer (which can be good or bad depending on who they choose, but by this point you should have worked out your opponent's team accurately enough to know what this will entail).</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock support is heavily recommended for this set, as it can make the difference between a 2HKO and an OHKO. Paralysis support or a Baton Passed Agility is also viable in case Zangoose should be outsped, since the extra Speed can occasionally mean the difference between a win and a loss. Defensive Spiritomb is one of this set’s greatest foes, and thus Blaziken can be one of this set’s greatest allies since he resists Spiritomb’s Dark-type STAB and is immune to Will-O-Wisp, and has the potential to OHKO with STAB Fire Blast. Rest Talk Hariyama also resists Dark-type attacks, can heal off burns with Rest or use them to activate Guts, but does not have anything to hit back at Spiritomb with. Houndoom also resists both Ghost- and Dark-type attacks and can take advantage of Will-O-Wisp with Flash Fire. In the case of Hitmontop, a Spiritomb of your own will hinder your opponent, being immune to Fighting-type moves and Rapid Spin.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>First and foremost, Stealth Rock is highly recommended above all else when it comes to supporting Zangoose. It can make the difference between an OHKO and a dead Zangoose. Although several of Zangoose’s counters are resistant to Rock, Stealth Rock still affects them enough to warrant its use. Spikes are often just as important, hitting every Pokemon resistant to Stealth Rock for decent damage. Stealth Rock is highlighted since it takes just one turn to set up, and is widely accessible in UU. On the other hand, Spikers are limited, more or less, to Cloyster and Omastar. You may also want to bring a Ghost-type such as Spiritomb in order to block any Rapid Spin attempts by the opponent and stop Hitmontop. Zangoose has fairly average Speed, and a Baton Passed Agility boost or paralysis support helps greatly. Dual screen support can also be useful if you are afraid that Zangoose’s frailty will limit his ability to set up a Swords Dance, or else allow him to be OHKOed by someone faster.</p>

    <p>Finding a decent offensive complement to Zangoose is interesting, as the Swords Dancer will OHKO all but the bulkiest Pokemon, and just about everyone in the UU tier can be 2HKOed by one of his standard moves. Thus, what serve Zangoose best are a combination of hard hitters and Speed merchants — the hard hitters can draw out, weaken, or shuffle walls around in order both to gauge the opposition and weaken it sufficiently to allow Zangoose to finish them, while having faster teammates helps against faster teams, able to frighten away faster threats whom Zangoose may be facing. Mismagius is an excellent choice owing to his immunity to Fighting-type moves. Swellow can outrun and frighten off many Pokémon who outspeed or threaten Zangoose, including Blaziken, Sceptile, and Mismagius. Mixed Blaziken can also break or weaken walls such as Spiritomb and Steelix, paving the way for a sweep.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>Choice items are useful tools for Zangoose to have, as it alleviates concerns about either power or Speed in exchange for being locked into one move; however, for the most part Tauros and Kangaskhan can use those sorts of sets better. Zangoose also has STAB Flail in its arsenal, which can be useful alongside Swords Dance, Close Combat, and Shadow Claw, but with all the priority running around in UU, Flail sets have a much lower chance of succeeding in sweeping in comparison to the Swords Dance set. If running a Jolly nature on Zangoose, you may miss out on some OHKOs due to the loss in power. Zangoose has two stronger STAB moves than Return in the form of Double-Edge and Mega Kick. Both have 120 Base Power to Return's 102, but both also have very nasty drawbacks. Double-Edge has good accuracy and PP but deals recoil damage whenever Zangoose hits someone, which can be crippling with Zangoose's low HP stat on top of possible Life Orb recoil. Mega Kick has the same power and no damaging effect, but it has very low accuracy and PP.</p>

    <p>Silk Scarf is a viable alternative to Life Orb, as it does not have a detrimental side effect and can also lure your opponent into believing that Zangoose is Choice-locked, provided of course you do not use Swords Dance prematurely; however, it lacks the all-around power of Life Orb. Pursuit is a possibility on the Choice Band set, but lacks STAB, and there are few Ghosts or Psychics who switch out of Zangoose. Its main use, therefore, would probably be to finish off Pokémon like Chansey, and Drapion does that job much better. Don't bother with Taunt; everyone 2HKOes him. Zangoose packs an astounding special movepool, including Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Shadow Ball, and Focus Blast, and thus a gimmick mixed set is somewhat viable, though not advised owing to Zangoose’s very low Special Attack stat. Of the Elemental Punches, Ice Punch is the most viable, but is only more powerful than STAB Return against Altaria, Gligar, Torterra, and Tropius in UU. Lastly, Counter can be used with a Focus Sash to KO an unsuspecting opponent.</p>

    <p>You should always run max Attack and at least near max Speed. The recommended Speed EVs are the minimum you should be using, with any spare EVs dumped into a preferred defensive stat, but not HP. With 0 EVs, Zangoose has 287 HP, which is ideal; residual damage rounds down, so you lose 35 HP from Stealth Rock, 28 from Life Orb, and 17 from sandstorm. With 4 EVs and 288 HP Stealth Rock deals 36 damage and sandstorm deals 18.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Countering the Swords Dance variant of Zangoose directly is more difficult than one would imagine, because of its ability to at least 2HKO anyone in UU. Because of this, it is generally easier to attempt to force him out as he Swords Dances with someone faster with OHKO potential, such as Swellow; however, this runs the obvious risk of switching straight into a Life Orbed Return.</p>

    <p>Of the Pokemon considered at least decent checks to Zangoose, Spiritomb is by far the best. Spiritomb is not OHKOed by even a Swords Dance boosted Shadow Claw, and can cripple Zangoose with Will-O-Wisp or defeat him with some combination of Sucker Punch, Dark Pulse, and Hidden Power Fighting. Next on the list is Hitmontop, who can function as a wall or a revenge killer. Defensive Hitmontop can Intimidate Zangoose, destroy him with a STAB Close Combat, or Spin away entry hazards. Technitop can beat Zangoose through a combination of Fake Out + Mach Punch, but must be careful not to switch into Return. It should also be noted that Zangoose’s Quick Attack will 2HKO Technitop after a Swords Dance, so using Mach Punch first with Hitmontop rather than opening with Fake Out is probably a better strategy.</p>

    <p>Far more popular methods of dealing with Zangoose involve simply outspeeding and OHKOing him. However, Zangoose can and will occasionally run a Scarf set and is also capable of bluffing one with Silk Scarf, so this is not an entirely reliable strategy. The most popular Pokemon who are naturally faster are Mismagius, Alakazam, Swellow, Ambipom, Scyther, Arcanine, Drapion, and Rotom. Note that most of these Pokemon will usually fail to OHKO a full HP Zangoose with an unboosted attack. For reference, Mismagius’s unboosted Hidden Power Fighting will do about 70% damage to Zangoose, so Mismagius may have to abuse Life Orb recoil through strategic switching before attacking. Most faster Pokemon will have to watch out for Quick Attack, however. Finally, if Zangoose lacks Quick Attack, priority users such as Blaziken and Absol can revenge him.</p>
    --------------------------------------------------------------------


    Post-critique changes:
    • Changed Damage tags to correct version
    • Grammar check 1, thanks to moot
    • Removed references to Crobat, Shaymin, Roserade and Yanmega
    • Added references to Froslass, Alakazam, Raikou, Gallade, and Rhyperior
    • Removed references to Gallade and Honchkrow
    • Added references to Cresselia
    • Updated with new format
    • Removed references to Froslass, Cresselia and Raikou
    • GP Grammar Check 1, thanks to whistle
    • Removed Choice and Salac Flail sets
    • GP Grammar Check 2, thanks to Dr. Reid
    • Grammar Check 2, thanks to Snorlaxe
  2. Erazor

    Erazor ✓ Just Doug It
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    Nice job, I might do a grammar check later.

    For damage calcs, you use: <pre>calculation</pre>
  3. moot

    moot

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    Messages:
    2,136
    Suggested changes are in bold. Nicely done!
  4. Draco Zephyr

    Draco Zephyr

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2009
    Messages:
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    This'll save you a lot of time - instead of formatting each calc individually with <pre> tags, just use a single set of tags to wrap the entire set of calcs. Here's a copyable version:

    <pre>
    - +2 Zangoose Silk Scarf Return vs. 32 HP Shaymin: 364 - 430 (104.30% - 123.21%)
    - +2 Zangoose Silk Scarf Return vs. 104 HP Crobat: 441 - 519 (130.86% - 154.01%)
    - +2 Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Registeel: 438 - 516 (120.33% - 141.76%)
    - +2 Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 148 HP 252 Def Bold Milotic: 331 - 391 (89.95% - 106.25%)
    - +1 Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 72 Def Impish Hitmontop: 262 - 309 (86.18% - 101.64%)
    - +2 Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Steelix: 308 - 364 (87.01% - 102.82%)
    - +2 Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Regirock: 308 - 364 (84.62% - 100.00%)
    - +2 Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 144 Def Bold Claydol: 301 - 355 (92.90% - 109.57%)
    - +2 Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 252 Def Bold Uxie: 238 - 282 (67.23% - 79.66%)
    - +2 Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 252 Def Bold Slowbro: 268 - 316 (68.02% - 80.20%)
    - +2 Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 248 HP 148 Def Bold Moltres: 337 - 397 (87.99% - 103.66%)
    - +2 Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 200 Def Altaria: 351 - 414 (99.15% - 116.95%)
    - +2 Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 252 Def Bold Blastoise: 285 - 336 (78.73% - 92.82%)
    - +2 Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Bold Cloyster: 340 - 400 (111.84% - 131.58%)
    - +2 Zangoose Life Orb Quick Attack vs. 0 HP Mild Blaziken: 232 - 274 (77.08% - 91.03%)
    </pre>

    Phew...that's easily the most calcs I've ever seen in one place...lol...
  5. whistle

    whistle
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    grammar check as requested… big fucking bump as well.

    I’m a little unsure about whether a Choice set should be included because Kangaskhan and Tauros both seem to outclass it – in different ways no less. the Flail set also seems a bit shaky since it either hits like a girl or can’t meaningfully damage several significant Pokemon, in contrast to the high and consistent damage output of the standard SD set. I am leaning towards “no” on both but comments from other people would be nice here.

    blue font denotes additions or changes, while red font shows where text was already removed (this doesn’t mean you should remove the red stuff). brackets are comments.

    note that you’re supposed to refer to Pokemon as people (him instead of it).

    GP Check 1/2 (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>Shunned and rejected in favour of better options in Standard play, it could be considered a true blessing that Zangoose set his sights lower and plunged into the unsettled waters of Underused play. Sadly for the demon rodent, however, he has failed to make any sort of impact in even this lower metagame and is still ousted from teams in favour of bulkier, faster or harder-hitting alternatives. Zangoose simply does not have the raw stats to be a truly viable Pokémon, despite his very desirable movepool, and is all too often dismissed by competitive battlers as far too frail to pose any threat whatsoever.</p> [I think you are a bit harsh here, even taking into account the next paragraph. I would just get rid of the previous few sentences since the next few provide a pretty accurate picture of Zangoose (relatively low stats but all in the right place for a sweeper).]

    <p>But let us not be too hasty in condemning the white wonder to disuse. Though his stats are low they are distributed excellently; he has a very reliable STAB to use and a collection of moves that back it up with both excellent coverage and desirable boosts. He can run many different movesets; all work excellently with a little thought, and his defensive stats, though not spectacular, are sufficient to allow him to survive most neutral assaults. That said, he is hard to use correctly, but with adequate support, there is very little in UU that can stop him doing what he was designed to do: cause a lot of damage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Return
    move 3: Close Combat
    move 4: Shadow Claw / Quick Attack
    item: Life Orb / Silk Scarf
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Zangoose is one of a whole host of physical Normal-type sweepers once deemed too powerful for UU, and have since returned to the tier in order to justify that claim. Alas, they have for the most part failed to make any significant impact on the metagame. On paper, Zangoose does not have many encouraging features to make himself stand out from his brethren – Tauros and Ambipom are faster, and Ursaring, Regigigas, and Slaking have more initial attack power. However, this should not deter you from using Zangoose – he has above average stats in both speed and attack, and has one key factor that makes him exceptional: a very wide movepool.</p>

    <p>Swords Dance is the crux of this set, enabling Zangoose to boost his attack power and possibly open up a sweeping opportunity. Return is the given STAB move, boasting both a relatively high base power and reliable accuracy. Close Combat is a blessing for Zangoose, as he can retaliate with feeling against Steel- and Rock-types who resist his STAB. The last slot has a number of options; Shadow Claw is likely the superior option as it enables Zangoose to hit frail Ghost-types such as Mismagius for super effective damage; however, Quick Attack can be surprisingly powerful after a Swords Dance and has the potential to KO frailer priority revenge-killers such as Blaziken and Absol with Stealth Rock support. It also allows Zangoose to get the jump on faster, weakened opponents such as Swellow. [I would move the next two sentences to Optional Changes since they talk about potential changes that apply to all Zangoose sets] Night Slash can be used over Shadow Claw, since there is no real difference between them. The Elemental Punches are not advised here as even a super-effective hit does less damage than a neutral Return, and in most cases Return is sufficient to KO the opponent’s pokémon. [Discussion of item choice, EVs, and nature goes into AC barring extreme circumstances – so everything from here to the end of the paragraph] The item choice is also an important one – Life Orb gives more power to all of Zangoose’s moves, and without it he can miss some crucial OHKOs. However, Silk Scarf does not have a detrimental side-effect and can also lure your opponent into believing that Zangoose is Choice-locked, provided of course you [keeping “you” here in contrast to the previous changes, because Zangoose misses KOs and Zangoose is Choice-locked, but the player is the actor who picks whether or not to use Swords Dance] do not use Swords Dance prematurely. A Jolly nature is the best choice to outrun neutral base 95s and 100s such as Drapion and Arcanine as well as positive natured base 80s like Kabutops and Venusaur. With no EV investment in HP, Zangoose takes minimum damage from indirect damage, such as Stealth Rock and the rare Sandstorm.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p> [removed sentence since that is true for literally everything lol] After a Swords Dance, Zangoose has the ability to break slower walls with relative ease – even with a Jolly nature, just about everything in UU is at least 2HKOed by him after a Swords Dance, and plenty more things are OHKOed:</p>

    <h3>Damage Calculations</h3>

    [the decision in the following thread may be applicable here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74184]

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Registeel: 100%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 148 HP 252 Def Bold Milotic: 89.95% - 100%</li>
    [needs a calc for 252/252+ Milotic which should probably replace the above calc]
    <li>+1 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 72 Def Impish Hitmontop: 86.18% - 100%</li>
    [needs a calc for 252/252+ Hitmontop which should probably replace the above calc]
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Steelix: 87.01% - 100%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Regirock: 84.62% - 100%</li>
    [I would take out all of these from Claydol to Blastoise since those are either too similar to calcs already done (Milotic for Blastoise) or aren’t commonly referred to as examples of bulky walls – not impressive enough to justify the space]
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 144 Def Bold Claydol: 92.90% - 100%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 252 Def Bold Uxie: 67.23% - 79.66%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 252 Def Bold Slowbro: 68.02% - 80.20%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 248 HP 148 Def Bold Moltres: 87.99% - 100%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 200 Def Altaria: 99.15% - 100%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 252 Def Bold Blastoise: 78.73% - 92.82%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 4 Def Rhyperior: 91.37% - 100%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Bold Cloyster: 100%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Quick Attack vs. 0 HP Mild Blaziken: 77.08% - 91.03%</li>
    [perhaps consider adding calcs for Quick Attack against offensive Alakazam, Sceptile, and Dugtrio… those would be very useful for someone trying to decide whether to use it]
    </ul>

    <p>With an Adamant nature, Zangoose is guaranteed to OHKO many of these walls with one of its attacks, but will fail to outrun many faster Pokemon. With a Jolly nature, Zangoose has a fair chance to miss an OHKO on many walls, and while [British vs U.S.] they will likely fail to OHKO him with one attack, their attack's damage on top of Life Orb recoil can end his sweep prematurely. Thus, it is recommended strongly that you save Zangoose for lategame, when the opponent’s walls have had a chance to accumulate some damage. However, although his speed is decent, Zangoose is outrun and halted by a number of common threats. Drapion, Mismagius and Rotom all outrun him and, while none of them can OHKO with a single unboosted attack, they highlight the point that Zangoose can easily be revenge-killed before he has a chance to sweep. Quick Attack can remedy this, but if you lack Shadow Claw you are setup fodder for Mismagius and Spiritomb.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock support is heavily recommended for this set, as it can make the difference between a 2HKO and an OHKO. Paralysis support or a Baton Passed Agility is also viable in case Zangoose should be outsped, since the extra speed can occasionally mean the difference between a win and a loss. Defensive Spiritomb is one of this set’s greatest foes, and thus Rest Talk Hariyama can be one of this set’s greatest allies since he resists Spiritomb’s Dark STAB and can heal off burns with Rest or usethem to activate Guts. Houndoom also resists both Ghost- and Dark-type attacks and can take advantage of Will-O-Wisp with Flash Fire. Against Hitmontop, a Spiritomb of your own will hinder your opponent, since it is immune to Fighting moves and Rapid Spin. [Zangoose is not going to switch into Hitmontop’s Toxic because it will just switch right back out; plus, Hitmontop don’t run Toxic often so it’s kinda confusing]</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Return
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: Quick Attack
    move 4: Night Slash / Shadow Claw
    item: Choice Band / Choice Scarf
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Zangoose can also run a standard Choice Band set, sacrificing most of its sweeping potential for the ability to hit hard off the bat. Tauros can use Choice Band effectively as well owing to its far higher speed, but Zangoose has the advantages of a more useful movepool as well as a higher attack stat. This set also functions well with a Choice Scarf - while forfeiting a considerable amount of power, it allows Zangoose to outpace faster foes and defeat them before they get a hit in.</p>

    <p>Return gets a great deal of neutral coverage in UU, and only a handful of pokémon – albeit very common ones – can switch in comfortably. Close Combat and Shadow Claw hit what Return cannot, and also make an unresisted attacking combination. Night Slash, however, has no immunities, so cocky Swellow cannot succeed in getting a free switch. Additionally, the Dark + Fighting move combination is only walled by Heracross and Toxicroak, with the former happily absent from UU. A Jolly nature is recommended for the Choice Band set, to ensure that Zangoose outruns the majority of slower attackers. However, if you want Zangoose to specialise in hit and run attacks, you can use an Adamant nature – although Slaking is better for that sort of job. Adamant is advised if you are running a Choice Scarf, since you will need to salvage as much power as possible to have any chance at causing proper havoc. [usually sets should not reference comments made in previous sets in case orders are switched or sets are removed, but in any case the elemental punch discussion should be moved to Optional Changes].</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is best used for hit-and-run attacks, and most things are going to take a chunk of damage from a boosted Return; however, a bad prediction can, like with all Choice sets, result in a bad situation. Pokémon that can switch into Zangoose’s attacks with little risk are usually Ghosts, such as Mismagius and Spiritomb, and getting stuck on Shadow Claw allows a free switch for Swellow. Entry hazards are advised to allow accumulation of damage, as well as to give Zangoose an easier time with certain kills. Hariyama, as mentioned in the previous set, is again a great asset, as is Blaziken who is immune to Will-O-Wisp and resists Dark Pulse. Both Hariyama and Blaziken also threaten the Steel and Rock-types who switch in on Return, such as Steelix and Regirock, with STAB Fighting attacks. Drapion needs to watch out for Will-O-Wisp from Spiritomb but terrifies Mismagius and defensive Psychic-types such as Slowbro, who is a problem for the Scarf set with his high defensive stats. Hitmontop is a big problem for this set; the defensive variants can Intimidate Zangoose and spin away his precious entry hazards as well as threatening him with STAB Close Combat; Technician variants, though unable to switch in on a Choice Band Return, can revenge kill Zangoose before he is touched via Fake Out + Mach Punch. Most Poison-types work well to stop Hitmontop. [Drapion… not so much] Psychic-types like Slowbro dislike Toxic but still bear up reasonably well, and of course Spiritomb is a good choice due to a Fighting immunity and the ability to block Rapid Spin.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Salac Flail
    move 1: Substitute / Endure
    move 2: Flail
    move 3: Swords Dance / Shadow Claw
    move 4: Close Combat / Shadow Claw
    item: Salac Berry
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Zangoose is one of a small set of Pokémon who get STAB on Flail, making them immediately superior on paper to other Flail-wielders such as Pinsir and Kabutops. However, Zangoose does not immediately stand out from the crowd of STAB Flailers: Persian is faster, Dodrio is faster and has dual STAB, and Vigoroth has access to Reversal as well as Flail. However, Zangoose has a range of movepool options that make him one of if not the best choices for Flail in Underused, chiefly Swords Dance, Close Combat, and Shadow Claw.</p>

    <p>The idea of the set is quite easy to grasp, yet difficult to master – Get down to 1% of your health via Substitute or Endure, hopefully getting a Swords Dance boost along the way, and smash through everything in your way with a base 200-powered STAB move, +1 speed due to the Salac Boost, and Close Combat for anything that resists Flail. Substitute works better when faced with slower Pokémon such as Slowbro - by blocking their Thunder Wave, it forces them to attack lest Zangoose Swords Dance up thrice and massacre everything. However, against faster Pokémon such as Swellow, who are likely to attempt to kill Zangoose first, Endure works better. The last two slots are highly contested by Zangoose’s large movepool, and losing one can forfeit a sweep. Swords Dance adds extra sting to your tail and is vital to get some important OHKOs on Pokémon such as Steelix before they Roar you out. Close Combat is important to give you any hope of taking on Regirock and Steelix at all, and without Shadow Claw you are walled to oblivion by any Ghost-type. [move rest to AC] Quick Attack is also an option to allow you a bit of insurance against priority-users hoping to end your sweep, such as Absol. An Adamant nature is advised here, as it makes your Flails hurt far more than Jolly Zangoose and can ensure some OHKOs on pokémon such as Steelix and Regirock, and 248 EVs out-runs everything up to and including Hasty Electrode after a Salac Boost. With a Jolly nature, less speed is required, so you can boost your defensive stats a bit, should you want to.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Entry hazards are still just as important as ever on this set, but picking Zangoose’s teammates here all depends on the moves it is using. Substitute Zangoose can take on Spiritomb relatively well, provided it has Shadow Claw, but an Endure variant will have a comparatively more difficult time. If Zangoose lacks Swords Dance, he will likely lack the power to end Steelix or Regirock and they will pick him off easily, and if he lacks Close Combat the outcome is much the same. Lacking Shadow Claw leaves him vulnerable to Spiritomb and Mismagius, and without Quick Attack and a couple of Swords Dance boosts, pretty much any priority move will be able to pick him off. You should choose your team based on what move Zangoose lacks; Drapion and Houndoom can use STAB Pursuit on fleeing Ghosts like Mismagius and Rotom, while bulky Waters are in general the best choices against Steelix and Regirock. In the cases of Registeel and Spiritomb specifically, one can employ Blaziken or Hariyama, as appropriate.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>First and foremost, Stealth Rock is highly recommended above all else when it comes to supporting Zangoose. On the Swords Dancer, as shown above, it can make the difference between an OHKO and a dead Zangoose. Although several of Zangoose’s counters are resistant to Rock, Stealth Rock still affects them enough to warrant its use. Spikes, are often just as important, hitting every Pokemon resistant to Stealth Rock for decent damage. Stealth Rock is highlighted since it takes just one turn to set up, and is widely accessible in UU. On the other hand, Spikers are limited, more or less, to Cloyster and Omastar. You may also want to bring a Ghost-type such as Spiritomb in order to block any Rapid Spin attempts by the opponent and stop Hitmontop. Zangoose has fairly average speed, and a Baton Passed Agility boost or paralysis support helps greatly. Screen support can also be useful if you are afraid that Zangoose’s frailty will limit its ability to set up a Swords Dance, or else allow it to be OHKOed by something faster.</p>

    <p>Finding a decent offensive complement to Zangoose is interesting, as the Swords Dancer will OHKO all but the bulkiest pokémon, and just about everything in the UU tier can be 2HKOed by one of his standard moves. Thus, what serve Zangoose best are a combination of hard special hitters and speed merchants [why?] – Mismagius is an excellent choice owing to his immunity to Fighting-type moves. Swellow can outrun and frighten off many Pokémon that outspeed or threaten Zangoose, including Blaziken, Sceptile, and Mismagius. Mixed Blaziken can also break or weaken walls such as Spiritomb and Steelix, paving the way for a sweep.</p>

    <p>Zangoose isn’t winning any awards defensively, and is generally defeated by most neutral STAB attacks, though he will almost always survive at least one. He has only one weakness (Fighting), which has five resistances – Bug, Flying, Ghost, Psychic, and Poison. There are plenty of Pokémon in UU with these types, so Zangoose is not short of allies to call upon in his hour of need. Ghost-types such as Spiritomb and Mismagius are entirely immune to Fighting attacks and also block Rapid Spin attempts. Other than this, Slowbro, Uxie, Weezing, Altaria, and Muk all have decent defensive stats – the first three in particular – and can stop Hitmontop, Zangoose’s great nemesis. Spiritomb is Zangoose’s other deadly foe, and Blaziken and Houndoom resist [Hariyama is not a Spiritomb counter] Dark and are indifferent to Will-O-Wisp, while Drapion resists Spiritomb’s STAB moves (but does not appreciate a burn). Moltres also packs a resistance to Fighting along with an immunity to Will-O-Wisp.</p>

    <p>Spiritomb and Hitmontop, unfortunately for Zangoose, are quite popular partners, so it is not unusual to see both on the same team. Registeel can deal with both Swellow and Mismagius, but falls prey to Hitmontop, so you will need a very strong response to Hitmontop if you wish to run Registeel. Registeel’s many resistances also come in handy against neutral hitters seeking to oust Zangoose by pure power alone.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>If running a Jolly nature on Zangoose, you may miss out on some OHKOs due to the loss in power. Zangoose has two stronger STAB moves than Return, in the form of Double-Edge and Mega Kick. Both have 120 Base Power to Return's 100, but both also have very nasty drawbacks. Double-Edge has good accuracy and PP but deals recoil damage whenever Zangoose hits something, which can be crippling with Zangoose's low HP stat on top of possible Life Orb recoil. Mega Kick has the same power and no damaging effect, but it has very low accuracy. Pursuit is a possibility on the Choice Band set, but lacks STAB, and there are few Ghosts or Psychics who switch out of Zangoose. Its main use, therefore, would probably be to finish off Pokémon like Chansey, and Drapion does that job much better. Don't bother with Taunt; everything 2HKOs you. Zangoose packs an astounding special movepool, including Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Shadow Ball and Focus Blast, and thus a gimmick mixed set is somewhat viable, though not advised owing to Zangoose’s very low Special Attack stat. Of the Elemental Punches, Ice Punch is the most viable, but is only more powerful than STAB Return against Altaria, Gligar, Torterra and Tropius in UU. Fire Punch is only viable against Parasect and Wormadam-s, and ThunderPunch is only good for Mantine. [ UU analysis] Night Slash and Shadow Claw are virtually perfect substitutes. The former is better with Choice items, because nothing is immune to Dark. Other physical options include Rock Slide, X-Scissor and Poison Jab, none of which do much that a STAB Return doesn’t. Lastly, Counter can be used with a Focus Sash to KO an unsuspecting opponent.</p>

    <p>You should always run max Attack and at least near max Speed. The recommended Speed EVs for each set are the minimum you should be using, with any spare EVs dumped into a preferred defensive stat, but not HP. With 0 EVs, Zangoose has 287 HP, which is ideal; residual damage rounds down, so you lose 35 HP from Stealth Rock, 28 from Life Orb, and 17 from Sandstorm. With 4 EVs and 288 HP Stealth Rock deals 36 damage and Sandstorm deals 18.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Countering the Swords Dance variant of Zangoose directly is more difficult than one would imagine, because of its ability to at least 2HKO anything in UU. Because of this, it is generally easier to attempt to force him out as he Swords Dances with something faster with OHKO potential, such as Swellow; however, this runs the obvious risk of switching straight into a Choice Banded Return.</p>

    <p>Of the Pokémon considered at least decent checks to Zangoose, Spiritomb is by far the best. [deleted a ton of info cause it was outdated/wrong] Spiritomb is not OHKOed by even a Swords Danced Shadow Claw, and can cripple Zangoose with Will-O-Wisp or defeat him with some combination of Sucker Punch, Dark Pulse, or Hidden Power Fighting. Next on the list is Hitmontop, who can function as a wall or a revenge killer. Defensive Hitmontop can Intimidate Zangoose, destroy him with a STAB Close Combat, or spin away entry hazards. Technitop can beat Zangoose through a combination of Fake Out + Mach Punch, but must be careful not to switch into Return. It should also be noted that Zangoose’s Quick Attack will 2HKO Technitop after a Swords Dance, so using Mach Punch first with Hitmontop rather than opening with Fake Out is probably a better strategy. [Return doesn’t kill max Def Hitmontop]</p>

    <p>Far more popular methods of dealing with Zangoose involve simply outspeeding him and OHKOing. However, Zangoose can and will occasionally run a Scarf set and is also capable of bluffing one with Silk Scarf, so this is not an entirely reliable strategy. The most popular Pokémon who are naturally faster are Mismagius, Alakazam, Swellow, Ambipom, Scyther, Arcanine, Drapion and Rotom. Note that most of these pokémon will usually fail to OHKO a full HP Zangoose with an unboosted attack. For reference, Mismagius’s unboosted Hidden Power Fighting will do about 70% damage to Zangoose, so Mismagius may have to abuse Life Orb recoil through strategic switching before attacking. Most faster Pokemon will have to watch out for Quick Attack, however. Finally, if Zangoose lacks Quick Attack, priority users such as Blaziken and Absol can revenge him.</p>

    god this was long

    [​IMG]
  6. Frosty

    Frosty

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    I can't say anything about Choice Scarf, but CBgoose has the significant advantage of being able to 2HKO +Max/max Milotic with return with a jolly nature, SR and leftovers more often than not (48.9% - 57.5%), while CBTauros (44.5% - 52.7%) and CBKhan (43% - 50.6%) will struggle to do so. Also, if you are feeling like going kamikaze, Double-Edge will give you a comfortable 2HKO without SR on Milotic (57.5% - 67.9%) and a OHKO with SR on 252/0 Venusaur (86% - 101.4%) and without SR on offensive variants (104% - 122.6%).

    So yeah, I really feel CBgoose is diferent enough from Tauros to warrant a CB set (and I would go as far as to mention Double-Edge in the Additional Comments, as the extra 2HKOs e OHKOs it can get are rather useful).
  7. whistle

    whistle
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    cb tauros can afford to run adamant which can still beat +nature base 95s, which makes the power difference negligible (one point). plus, since adamant tauros + jolly zangoose both have enough attack to 2hko everything that doesn't resist normal (except um impish donphan and tangrowth), any extra attack that adamant zangoose gets is cool but not too important.

    meanwhile, tauros has one of the best offensive abilities and a lot more physical bulk (75/95 vs 73/60, which is 46.9% bulkier if i just multiply hp vs defense and take the ratio assuming 0 evs). the extra bulk and intimidate lets tauros check - counter, really - lots of pokemon that zangoose cannot, including dd lo adamant feraligatr waterfall (57.7% - 68% vs 126.8% - 149.5%), sd lo jolly kabutops aqua jet (42.3% - 49.8% vs 81.9% - 96.5%), sd lo jolly toxicroak sucker punch (52.9% - 62.5% vs 103.1% - 121.6%), all base 95s such as houndoom/arcanine/leafeon (the last somewhat), rotom, etc, not to mention intimidate emergency checks everything physical even if tauros can't switch in safely.

    in return what does zangoose get... a slightly better attack to use against rocks and steels (tauros's earthquake 2hkoes registeel all the time but needs about 10% residual damage to kill steelix and rhyperior which is frankly not too hard) and quick attack. maybe once in twenty battles one of those might make a difference, but tauros's bulk + ability come in handy in essentially every match.

    kangaskhan has less attack, true, but has scrappy which makes the prediction game much easier.

    all in all i don't see a reason i would ever use cb zangoose over either of those two normal types. i prolly wouldn't use scarf either one of them since i don't like the concept, but if i had to pick i would probably still use tauros because of intimidate. either way there's not a reason the scarf set for zangoose is comparatively better than the choice band set.
  8. MetaNite

    MetaNite
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    In the overview you state it is a demon rodent. Mongooses are actually small carnivores most closely related to weasels and cats, in the family Herpestidae. Thought I'd just throw that out there. Maybe call it a demon weasel. Yeah I realize it may not make all that big a difference, but its like a human being called monkey. You wouldn't like that.
  9. Towelie

    Towelie

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    Wow those SD calc's look extremely well, but it doesn't seem easy to set up. Another nitpick: you said that nearly all Hitmontop have Toxic... Toxic isn't even a slash on the analysis so I would probably remove that mention. Anyways, it looks good.
  10. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    I don't like the choice set at all, for pretty much the same reasons as whoostle and also because Tauros' 75/95 defense and Intimidate and Kanghaskhan's excellent natural bulk give them a lot of opportunities to switch in, which is important in a choice user. The flail set also gets a big no from me. Not only priority rampant in UU, you don't even outrun the most common scarfer in the tier after a salac boost (Rotom) AND to boot it's immune to your sweeping move. I just don't see it working well at all in common battle conditions. The calcs on the SD set are certainly very impressive, however. I actually think Adamant deserves the main slash just because of all the ohkos it guarantees, which would basically make this function like a mini Lucario (SD/STAB/Coverage/Priority).
  11. EonADS

    EonADS

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    I think that the Choice Band set is viable next to Tauros' and Kahngaskahn's CB sets because Zangoose has something neither of them do: A reliable Priority move. Sure, Kahn has Sucker Punch and Fake Out, but neither are what you could call reliable, especially on a Choice set. It's defenses are weaker, but if you're looking for a fast, reliable Choice user, Zangoose is still a good choice.
  12. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Short summary of updates and potential changes:
    • Removed Choice and Salac Flail sets; added to Optional Changes (possibly need more opinions)
    • Removed Silk Scarf as an option on the Swords Dance
    • Recalculated damage calculations for Swords Dance
    • Corrected Linnaean fallacy in Overview
    • Should Adamant be slashed in on Swords Dance? (need more opinions if possible)
    If you disagree with any points above please point them out.

    Also, I reran the damage calculations in accordance with the new stance on damage caps; however the calculations I ran for Steelix and Regirock were considerably higher than my previous stated value. For reference, I used Libelldra the first time and Smogon this time. I checked the calcs again but nothing changed. Is it possible that someone else could run some calculations to double-check on these two?
  13. whistle

    whistle
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    Jolly +2 LO CC vs 252/0 Regirock: 93.4% - 109.9%
    Jolly +2 LO CC vs 252/0 Steelix: 96% - 113%

    also, I think you should discuss how to get Zangoose a SD, since that seems to be the main issue when I look at that set.

    <&whistle> i cant think of anything it sets up on though...
    <&Lady_bug> lucario of uu
    <&Lady_bug> chansey
    <&whistle> choice locked rotom
    <&Lady_bug> only thing i have in my mind
    <&whistle> except it will just revenge you
    <&whistle> dual screens
    <&whistle> and yeah chansey

    for Adamant... hmm... it seems like a good option initially since it pushes so many of the calcs into 100%+ land, but when I look at it more I don't think it is needed much. basically all the defensive Pokemon die with 5% residual damage and Jolly (or won't die even with Adamant in the case of Hitmontop), and the offensive ones either are way dead from Quick Attack or won't die - Sceptile is the only exception and I can see Adamant being useful for him.

    also, the Blaziken calc should be against 4/0 Timid/Jolly Blaziken (69.5% - 81.8%) since some people will use -Def and others will use -SDef on mixed sets, so it's not fair to assume the best case scenario.
  14. EonADS

    EonADS

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    I think Zangoose needs to keep its Choice Band Set for the same reason I posted above: Reliable Priority. Not only that, it has stronger offense than both Kangaskahn and Tauros, and it can still run an Adamant nature. Even with a neutral nature, it still outspeeds quite a number of slower Pokemon, neutral Venusaur, neutral Milotic, Blastoise, and Claydol among them.

    I'd say that you should go ahead and slash in Adamant on the SD set. Much as Jolly is going to usually be more viable, the extra increase in power on some of those calcs shouldn't be ignored so readily.

    Here's a few calcs I've done quickly to show the difference in power.

    Show Hide

    +2 Adamant Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 252 Def Bold Milotic: 92.6% - 109.4% (assured OHKO after Stealth Rock)
    +2 Adamant Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 200 Def Calm Milotic (RestTalk set): 106.9% - 125.9% (assured OHKO)
    +2 Adamant Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Steelix: 104.5% - 123.2% (assured OHKO)
    +2 Adamant Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Regirock: 101.6% - 119.8% (assured OHKO)
    +2 Adamant Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 136 HP Rhyperior: 100.7% - 118.8% (assured OHKO)
    +2 Adamant Zangoose Life Orb Quick Attack vs. 0 HP Mild Blaziken: 84.7% - 100% (81.7% chance [if my math is correct] of an OHKO after Stealth Rock)
    +2 Adamant Zangoose Life Orb Quick Attack vs. 4 HP Sceptile: 86.5% - 102.1% (94% chance of an OHKO after Stealth Rock)
    +2 Adamant Zangoose Life Orb Quick Attack vs. 4 HP Absol: 95.2% - 112.5% (assured OHKO after Stealth Rock)


    I wouldn't just pass over the chance to do that kind of damage so easily, so Adamant should be included.
  15. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    - I've added Adamant as a slash on Swords Dance and some extra comments on it below the damage calculations.

    - Need more opinions on Choice sets.

    - I also added in an extra paragraph on setting up Zangoose in the Additional Comments of the Swords Dancer.

    Any more comments or grammar/content checks are appreciated.
  16. EonADS

    EonADS

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    ^Quick thing I noticed, in the first SD set paragraph, you mention Silk Scarf as a viable alternative, but earlier in the thread you removed it. You'll want to fix that.
  17. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
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    Additions in blue, deletions in Red.
    Sorry, I did it quickly, but it didn't seem there was anything too outwardly wrong. But it was a little wordy.

    GP CHECK 2/2
    [​IMG]
  18. M BLADE

    M BLADE

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    I think we should give Choice Scarf a go.
    It serves as a revenge killer so defenses aren't that much of a issue.
    It's movepool is good enough too. Better than Tauros (who doesn't really need Scarf) and about as good as Kangaskhan (Zangoose is much stronger).
  19. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    Yeah I'm tired so I'm probably gonna miss stuff -.-

    pink for grammar edits
    blue for prose/content edits


    [Overview]

    <p>Shunned and rejected in favor of better options in Standard play, it could be considered a true blessing that Zangoose set his sights lower and plunged into the unsettled waters of the UU tier. Sadly for the demon furball, however, he has failed to make any sort of impact in even the UU metagame and is still ousted from teams in favor of bulkier, faster, or harder-hitting alternatives.</p>

    <p>However, let us not be too hasty in condemning the white wonder to disuse. Though his stats are low they are distributed excellently; he has a very reliable STAB to use and a collection of moves that back it up with both excellent coverage and desirable boosts. He can run many different movesets, all of which work excellently with a little thought, and his defensive stats, though not spectacular, are sufficient to allow him to survive most neutral assaults. That said, he is hard to use correctly, but with adequate support, there is very little in UU who can stop him from doing what he was designed to do: cause a lot of damage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Return
    move 3: Close Combat
    move 4: Shadow Claw / Quick Attack
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Zangoose is one of a whole host of physical Normal-type sweepers once deemed too powerful for UU, and have since returned to the tier in order to justify that claim. Unfortunately, though, they have for the most part failed to make any significant impact on the metagame. On paper, Zangoose does not have many distinguishing features to make himself stand out from his Normal-type brethren — Tauros and Ambipom are faster, and Ursaring and Slaking have more initial attack power. However, this should not deter you from using Zangoose — he has above average stats in both Speed and Attack, and has one key factor that makes him exceptional: a very wide physical movepool.</p>

    <p>Swords Dance is the crux of this set, enabling Zangoose to boost his attack power and possibly open up a sweeping opportunity. Return is the given STAB move, boasting both a relatively high Base Power and reliable accuracy. Close Combat is a blessing for Zangoose, as he can retaliate with feeling against Steel- and Rock-types who resist his STAB. The last slot has a number of options going for it; Shadow Claw is likely the superior option as it enables Zangoose to hit frail Ghost-types such as Mismagius for super effective damage; however, Quick Attack can be surprisingly powerful after a Swords Dance and has the potential to KO frailer priority users such as Blaziken and Absol with Stealth Rock support. It also allows Zangoose to get the jump on faster, weakened opponents such as Swellow.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>After a Swords Dance, Zangoose has the ability to break slower walls with relative ease — even with a Jolly nature, just about everyone in UU is at least 2HKOed by him after a Swords Dance, and plenty more Pokemon are OHKOed:</p>

    <h3>Damage Calculations</h3>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 252 Def Bold Milotic: 84.0% - 99.2%</li>
    <li>+1 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Return vs. 252 HP 252 Def Impish Hitmontop: 73.0% - 86.2%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Registeel: 120.3% - 141.8%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Steelix: 96.0% - 113.0%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Regirock: 93.4% - 109.9%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 136 HP Rhyperior: 92.1% - 108.4%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252 HP Bold Cloyster: 111.8% - 131.6%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Quick Attack vs. 4 HP Alakazam: 115.9% - 136.9%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Quick Attack vs. 4 HP Sceptile: 78.7% - 92.9%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Quick Attack vs. 4 HP Dugtrio: 127.8% - 150.5%</li>
    <li>+2 Jolly Zangoose Life Orb Quick Attack vs. 4 HP Absol: 86.4% - 101.8%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>All of the above calculations were done assuming a Jolly nature. With an Adamant nature, however, Zangoose is guaranteed to OHKO many of these walls with one of his attacks, even without entry hazards, but will fail to outrun many faster Pokemon. Even so, an Adamant nature can be helpful to assure OHKOs on faster Pokemon with Quick Attack, such as Sceptile and Blaziken. With a Jolly nature, Zangoose has a fair chance to miss an OHKO on many walls, and while they will likely fail to OHKO him with one attack, their attack's damage on top of Life Orb recoil can end his sweep prematurely. Thus, it is recommended strongly that you save Zangoose for lategame when the opponent's walls have had a chance to accumulate some damage. However, although his Speed is decent, he is outrun and halted by a number of common threats. Drapion, Mismagius, and Rotom all outrun him and, while none of them can OHKO with a single unboosted attack, they highlight the point that Zangoose can easily be revenge killed before he has a chance to sweep. Quick Attack can remedy this, but if you lack Shadow Claw you are setup fodder for Mismagius and Spiritomb. The item choice is also an important one — Life Orb is almost always the best choice, as it gives more power to all of Zangoose’s moves, and without it he can miss some crucial OHKOs. A Jolly nature is best here to outrun neutral base 95s and 100s, such as Drapion and Arcanine, as well as positive nature base 80s like Kabutops and Venusaur. With no EV investment in HP, Zangoose takes minimum damage from indirect damage, such as Stealth Rock and the rare sandstorm.</p>

    <p>Although Zangoose's damage output is spectacular, the process of actually setting up Swords Dance to sweep can be a difficult one. Zangoose has to both switch in, possibly taking entry hazard damage, and set up, giving the opponent two turns in which to end him. Zangoose's defenses are gut-wrenchinglyfraileven for UU, and even those with the poorest offenses can find a way to damage him, not to mention the fact that even those at the bottom of the offensive barrel, such as Registeel and Chansey, can find a way to ruin him through status afflictions. To help Zangoose set up, you can try to reduce the damage dealt to him by opponents by using dual screens, which can be set up by someone like Uxie, who can also set up Stealth Rock and use Memento to give Zangoose a free switch in. The use of Memento also lowers the opponent's offensive power, forcing them to switch and giving Zangoose that all-important turn to set up. In other situations you can simply wait and sacrifice one of your Pokemon in order to switch Zangoose in for free, or try to clear a hole using Explosion. When Zangoose is actually in play, you will need to find a way to set him up without taking too much damage. Against offensive teams, dual screens support are a great help, and you may also consider Baton Passing a Substitute to Zangoose to protect him from status.</p>

    <p>As for who Zangoose can actually set up on, those Pokemon with mediocre assaults are the best bets, the most notable being Chansey, since Zangoose can take a Seismic Toss and is immune to Toxic (just try to avoid Thunder Wave). You can also try Tricking a weaker Pokemon such as Registeel and letting Zangoose set up on him, but this has a very high chance of failing. If Zangoose can force an opponent out, either because they bluff the intention of attacking (if your opponent's Pokemon is on low health) or your opponent believes that the appropriate move is to switch to someone bulkier or a faster revenge killer (which can be good or bad depending on who they choose, but by this point you should have worked out your opponent's team accurately enough to know what this will entail).</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock support is heavily recommended for this set, as it can make the difference between a 2HKO and an OHKO. Paralysis support or a Baton Passed Agility is also viable in case Zangoose should be outsped, since the extra Speed can occasionally mean the difference between a win and a loss. Defensive Spiritomb is one of this set’s greatest foes, and thus Blaziken can be one of this set’s greatest allies since he resists Spiritomb’s Dark-type STAB and is immune to Will-O-Wisp, and has the potential to OHKO with STAB Fire Blast. Rest Talk Hariyama also resists Dark-type attacks, can heal off burns with Rest or use them to activate Guts, but does not have anything to hit back at Spiritomb with. Houndoom also resists both Ghost- and Dark-type attacks and can take advantage of Will-O-Wisp with Flash Fire. In the case of Hitmontop, a Spiritomb of your own will hinder your opponent, being immune to Fighting-type moves and Rapid Spin.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>First and foremost, Stealth Rock is highly recommended above all else when it comes to supporting Zangoose. It can make the difference between an OHKO and a dead Zangoose. Although several of Zangoose’s counters are resistant to Rock, Stealth Rock still affects them enough to warrant its use. Spikes are often just as important, hitting every Pokemon resistant to Stealth Rock for decent damage. Stealth Rock is highlighted since it takes just one turn to set up, and is widely accessible in UU. On the other hand, Spikers are limited, more or less, to Cloyster and Omastar. You may also want to bring a Ghost-type such as Spiritomb in order to block any Rapid Spin attempts by the opponent and stop Hitmontop. Zangoose has fairly average Speed, and a Baton Passed Agility boost or paralysis support helps greatly. Dual screen support can also be useful if you are afraid that Zangoose’s frailty will limit his ability to set up a Swords Dance, or else allow him to be OHKOed by someone faster.</p>

    <p>Finding a decent offensive complement to Zangoose is interesting, as the Swords Dancer will OHKO all but the bulkiest Pokemon, and just about everyone in the UU tier can be 2HKOed by one of his standard moves. Thus, what serve Zangoose best are a combination of hard hitters and Speed merchants — the hard hitters can draw out, weaken, or shuffle walls around in order both to gauge the opposition and weaken it sufficiently to allow Zangoose to finish them, while having faster teammates helps against faster teams, able to frighten away faster threats who Zangoose may be facing. Mismagius is an excellent choice owing to his immunity to Fighting-type moves. Swellow can outrun and frighten off many Pokémon who outspeed or threaten Zangoose, including Blaziken, Sceptile, and Mismagius. Mixed Blaziken can also break or weaken walls such as Spiritomb and Steelix, paving the way for a sweep.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>Choice items are useful tools for Zangoose to have, as it alleviates concerns about either power or Speed in exchange for being locked into one move; however, for the most part Tauros and Kangaskhan can use those sorts of sets better. Zangoose also has STAB Flail in its arsenal, which can be useful alongside Swords Dance, Close Combat, and Shadow Claw, but with all the priority running around in UU, Flail sets have a much lower chance of succeeding in sweeping in comparison to the Swords Dance set. If running a Jolly nature on Zangoose, you may miss out on some OHKOs due to the loss in power. Zangoose has two stronger STAB moves than Return in the form of Double-Edge and Mega Kick. Both have 120 Base Power to Return's 100, but both also have very nasty drawbacks. Double-Edge has good accuracy and PP but deals recoil damage whenever Zangoose hits someone, which can be crippling with Zangoose's low HP stat on top of possible Life Orb recoil. Mega Kick has the same power and no damaging effect, but it has very low accuracy. Silk Scarf is a viable alternative to Life Orb, as it does not have a detrimental side effect and can also lure your opponent into believing that Zangoose is Choice-locked, provided of course you do not use Swords Dance prematurely; however, it lacks the all-around power of Life Orb. Pursuit is a possibility on the Choice Band set, but lacks STAB, and there are few Ghosts or Psychics who switch out of Zangoose. Its main use, therefore, would probably be to finish off Pokémon like Chansey, and Drapion does that job much better. Don't bother with Taunt; everyone 2HKOes you. Zangoose packs an astounding special movepool, including Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Shadow Ball, and Focus Blast, and thus a gimmick mixed set is somewhat viable, though not advised owing to Zangoose’s very low Special Attack stat. Of the Elemental Punches, Ice Punch is the most viable, but is only more powerful than STAB Return against Altaria, Gligar, Torterra, and Tropius in UU. Lastly, Counter can be used with a Focus Sash to KO an unsuspecting opponent.</p>

    <p>You should always run max Attack and at least near max Speed. The recommended Speed EVs are the minimum you should be using, with any spare EVs dumped into a preferred defensive stat, but not HP. With 0 EVs, Zangoose has 287 HP, which is ideal; residual damage rounds down, so you lose 35 HP from Stealth Rock, 28 from Life Orb, and 17 from sandstorm. With 4 EVs and 288 HP Stealth Rock deals 36 damage and sandstorm deals 18.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Countering the Swords Dance variant of Zangoose directly is more difficult than one would imagine, because of its ability to at least 2HKO anyone in UU. Because of this, it is generally easier to attempt to force him out as he Swords Dances with someone faster with OHKO potential, such as Swellow; however, this runs the obvious risk of switching straight into a Choice Banded Return.</p>

    <p>Of the Pokemon considered at least decent checks to Zangoose, Spiritomb is by far the best. Spiritomb is not OHKOed by even a Swords Dance boosted Shadow Claw, and can cripple Zangoose with Will-O-Wisp or defeat him with some combination of Sucker Punch, Dark Pulse, or Hidden Power Fighting. Next on the list is Hitmontop, who can function as a wall or a revenge killer. Defensive Hitmontop can Intimidate Zangoose, destroy him with a STAB Close Combat, or Spin away entry hazards. Technitop can beat Zangoose through a combination of Fake Out + Mach Punch, but must be careful not to switch into Return. It should also be noted that Zangoose's Quick Attack will 2HKO Technitop after a Swords Dance, so using Mach Punch first with Hitmontop rather than opening with Fake Out is probably a better strategy.</p>

    <p>Far more popular methods of dealing with Zangoose involve simply outspeeding and OHKOing him. However, Zangoose can and will occasionally run a Choice Scarf set and is also capable of bluffing one with Silk Scarf, so this is not an entirely reliable strategy. The most popular Pokemon who are naturally faster are Mismagius, Alakazam, Swellow, Ambipom, Scyther, Arcanine, Drapion, and Rotom. Note that most of these Pokemon will usually fail to OHKO a full HP Zangoose with an unboosted attack. For reference, Mismagius’s unboosted Hidden Power Fighting will do about 70% damage to Zangoose, so Mismagius may have to abuse Life Orb recoil through strategic switching before attacking. Most faster Pokemon will have to watch out for Quick Attack, however. Finally, if Zangoose lacks Quick Attack, priority users such as Blaziken and Absol can revenge him.</p>


    pretty wordy analysis, but good job ^_^
  20. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Edited in changes from Dr. Reid and Snorlaxe, many thanks.

    Also, now that this has two GP checks, is it ready to be uploaded?
  21. whistle

    whistle
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    uploaded.
  22. whistle

    whistle
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    this was already uploaded, but we just had a minor discussion about the SD set. me, Eo, LonelyNess, and kd24 all agree that Quick Attack is a better option than Shadow Claw in the last slot. I flipped the slash in the last slot and changed the comments a little to accommodate the switch. PM me if you disagree with the change; keep in mind the reasoning given in the second paragraph of the set and make sure to respond to them in your PM.

    here is what I added (open)
    Quick Attack is the superior option since it can OHKO faster Pokemon like Alakazam, Sceptile, and Swellow after Stealth Rock. It also lets Zangoose defeat priority users such as Blaziken, Absol, and Hitmonlee. Shadow Claw can also be used to hit Ghost-type Pokemon; however, it is not very reliable, since Mismagius and Rotom are faster and usually carry Substitute for scouting, while Spiritomb is not hit super effectively.

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