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Zapdos (Analysis) [GP 2/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by MysticClaydol, Jul 1, 2011.

  1. MysticClaydol

    MysticClaydol

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    [​IMG]
    Zapdos

    FYI: DC. handed this analysis over to me in my visitor messages.

    QC Approved: (3/3) PK Gaming, Oglemi and Snunch
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    GP Approved: (2/3) FateCrashers and jc104
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    -------------------

    [Overview]

    <p>A mainstay of OU for 4 previous generations, Zapdos has, for this first time, fallen into UU. Zapdos boasts a high Special Attack stat of 125 and a good base 100 Speed as well as solid 90/85/90 defensive stats along with good defensive typing, making it both an offensive and defensive threat. Zapdos's Electric / Flying typing means it only has two weaknesses&mdash;Rock and Ice. While it is weak to Stealth Rock, Zapdos is immune to both forms of Spikes. While others may be better at certain aspects of Zapdos's role (for example, Jolteon as a special sweeper), Zapdos hits a unique blend of typing, stats, and movepool which just may be what your team needs. </p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Toxic / Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Roar / Heat Wave
    move 4: Roost
    nature: Bold
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Zapdos makes a great defensive Pokemon with its bulk and Electric / Flying typing, which it shares only with Rotom-S and Emolga. Thunderbolt is your STAB move, dealing decent damage to those weak or neutral to it and providing good coverage with Toxic. Toxic itself is used to deal with non-Immunity Gligar and Rhyperior who are immune to Thunderbolt. Roar lets you phaze, getting rid of Quiver Dancers and Smash Passers as well as racking up entry hazard damage to support your team. Lastly, Roost restores half of Zapdos's health in an instant and allows you it to recover from Stealth Rock damage. Hidden Power Ice can deal with anything immune to Toxic Spikes, including Gligar, Flygon, and Nidoking. Heat Wave lets you deal with Steel-types, some of whom resist the rest of Zapdos's moves, as well as Grass-types.<p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread shown offers a good amount of bulk with enough Speed to outrun max Speed Honchkrow and Abomasnow. 248 HP EVs allow Zapdos to switch into Stealth Rock 5 times while the rest of the EVs are pumped into Defence along with a Bold nature for maximum physical bulk. The remaining 236 EVs can go into Special Defence with a Calm nature to make a special wall, but given Zapdos's resistances this is not as useful as the physical variant.</p>

    <p>Discharge can replace Thunderbolt, but this is not effective alongside Toxic. However, paralysis can help you stall out a lot faster Pokemon. If you opt to use Hidden Power Ice, Toxic Spikes support is very helpful to ensure that the opponent is poisoned for stalling. Rapid Spin support is needed to prevent Stealth Rock damage from building up. Hitmontop is one of the most viable spinners, covering Zapdos's Rock-type weakness and ensuring a spin with Foresight. Donphan also resists Rock-type moves and provides Stealth Rock support, but shares a weakness to Ice. If using Roar, you want as many hazards as possible, including Spikes and Stealth Rock, in order to rack up residual damage. This set can easily be destroyed by powerful physical Pokemon such as Scarf Flygon and Heracross possessing Stone Edge, but predicting the switch you can hit them with one of your super effective coverage moves or switch into a teammate with the same advantage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubRoost
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Toxic / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Thunderbolt
    nature: Timid
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Like the rest of the legendary birds, Zapdos can effectively stall opponents out with the combination of Substitute, Roost, and Toxic. With its base 100 Speed, Zapdos can set up a Substitute in front of many walls, threats to Zapdos, and on switches. Hit the opponent with Toxic and stall them out while Toxic wears your opponent down, using Roost for recovery. Use Substitute when the previous one is broken or about to be broken by a faster threat, and Thunderbolt to hit Taunters or if you have a turn when there is no need for you to use your other moves.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread listed can be changed slightly to suit your team, but max Speed and a Timid nature is needed to control and outstall as many threats as possible. 248 HP can be used to improve Zapdos's overall defences, and the 64 Def EVs can be put into Special Defence, but Zapdos shines in taking out anything relying on Stone Edge or Blizzard due to their limited PP. Due to Pressure, these moves have only 4 uses and with Leftovers, Zapdos can outspeed and block these moves with Substitute 4 times, while still being able to make a Substitute on a switch. 64 Def EVs make those physical sweepers you stalled out look more like a fluffy Jumpluff allowing you to use them as set up fodder for your Zapdos and stall out something else.</p>

    <p>Discharge can be used over Thunderbolt for paralysis, which lets you stall out some Pokemon you normally could not, but paralysis can collide with poison and not be favourable for you. Hidden Power Ice works extremely well with Toxic Spikes support, making it a good replacement for Toxic . With this, Zapdos does not have to waste a turn using Toxic, instead simply KOing Gligar, Flygon and Nidoking with Hidden Power. As well as Toxic Spikes support, Heal Bell support is recommended for when Zapdos is paralysed or poisoned and Wish support when Zapdos has a quarter of its health left from stalling out Stone Edges, but is only really needed if it would better support other teammates. Rapid Spin support ensures that Zapdos can come in at full health, which is needed for stalling. The main threats to Zapdos are Rock Slide or Rock Blast users and faster Pokemon with a super effective move when Zapdos has no Substitute.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Sweeper
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Heat Wave
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Roost / Volt Switch
    nature: Timid / Modest
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a great Special Attack stat of 125, Zapdos can deal a lot of damage to unprepared teams. Thunderbolt is your STAB, capable of dealing massive damage to Water and Flying-types dumb enough to stay in. Heat Wave hits Grass and Steel-types who resist Electric-type moves and is very powerful with 100 Base Power. Next up is a Hidden Power of your choice. Grass hits the Water / Ground-types who wall your other attacks, while Ice hits Gligar and Flygon, who also wall your other attacks, so it really depends on what your team needs. Roost increases Zapdos's longevity and with Zapdos being the threat that it is, you can easily find the time to recover entry hazard damage or recoil damage. Volt Switch deals respectable damage while allowing Zapdos you get gain the switch advantage, but be warned, a Ground-type will prevent this manoeuvre.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Max Speed with a Speed boosting nature allows Zapdos to sweep to the best of its ability, with 252 Special Attack EVs for maximum damage output. Modest can be used but there are numerous base 100 Speed Pokemon in UU, such as Shaymin and Celebi, against which you will lose out on a tie. Discharge can be used over Thunderbolt, but the power difference is off-putting and the paralysis rate unnecessary. and Signal Beam can be used in slot 2, 3 or 4 to hit Psychic and Dark-types if your team needs it, but the options above have better coverage. Life Orb lets Zapdos deals more damage than Leftovers at the cost of decreased life expectancy. This can usually be solved by Roost if your opponent attempts to stall you out.</p>

    <p>Zapdos appreciates entry hazard support along with the lack of hazards on its side, as its weakness to Stealth Rock does hurt . Hitmontop is one of the most viable spinners, resisting Zapdos's Rock-type weaknesses and ensuring a spin with Foresight. Donphan also resists Rock-type moves and provides Stealth Rock support, but shares a weakness to Ice. This set can easily be countered by revenge killers such as Scarf Heracross, Scarf Fygon and Froslass who are faster and have super effective moves. To prevent this, Substitute can be used alongside Leftovers, letting you scout the opponents switch-in and preventing the opponent from simply sacrificing a Pokemon and then revenge killing Zapdos.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass
    move 3: Heat Wave
    move 4: U-turn / Volt Switch
    nature: Timid / Modest
    item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Instead of simply sweeping, Zapdos also can play something of a revenge killing or wallbreaking role by equipping a Choice item. With a Choice Scarf, Zapdos can outspeed more of the metagame. Notably, Zapdos can outrun Choice Scarf Heracross and tie with Choice Scarf Flygon and Choice Scarf Victini some of the time. With Choice Specs, Zapdos receives a welcome damage boost to its moves. While underwhelming compared to a Scarf, a pair of Choice Specs helps you deal with defensive threats like Milotic and Registeel, who can usually withstand Zapdos's neutral moves. Due to the nature of Choice items, limiting you to one move, using Zapdos as a late game sweeper lets you maximise its potential. The moves available are similar to the sweeper set: Thunderbolt is for STAB, Hidden Power provides coverage against Ground-types, and Heat Wave hits Grass- and Steel-types. Being locked into Roost is a liability, and so a scouting move is chosen instead; U-turn is more reliable, though Volt Switch is more powerful.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is standard, offering maximum speed and power. The choice between Modest and Timid and between Scarf and Specs depends on whether Speed or power is more important. Generally, any combination of item and nature can be used, whichever suits your team best. The most useful combination is Timid Scarf, as it can revenge kill Flygon and Heracross whatever set they are running. Also, most base 100 Speed sweepers will have max Speed, so Timid is needed to tie with them. Hidden Power Flying deals surprising super effective damage on Fighting-types and Ludicolo, but serves little on the Choice Scarf.</p>

    <p>Zapdos is a special attacker and so should be dealt with a special wall. Notable pokemon include, : Registeel, Chansey, Rotom-H, Deoxys-D, Snorlax, and Milotic. Registeel can wall anything but the Heat Wave, with Milotic walling anything but Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Grass. The rest are neutral or resistant to all of the attacks, Rotom-H being resistant to every single one. Hitmontop can deal with anything but Deoxys-D and spin away hazards that hurt Zapdos, which is especially important since this variant has to switch frequently. Hitmontop also resists Rock-type moves for Zapdos, while Donphan does the same. It also sets up Stealth Rock, which is needed for some KOs, but it is weak to Ice.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>The other main options are Weather Support, Rest, and Baton Pass. Having access to both Rain Dance and Sunny Day, Zapdos makes an excellent weather supporter. It can benefit from the rain by running Thunder, but sun is best as Zapdos can deal with Water-types and get a boosted Heat Wave.</p>

    <p>RestTalk and Baton Pass are also options but suffer from being less useful than the other sets. Zapdos could lead an UU Baton Pass Team, setting up with Agility, but with Team Preview and bigger threats, everyone can tell what Zapdos will do and will open with a counter. An Agility sweeping set is also viable, but sacrificing Roost or a coverage move can leave Zapdos as setup bait.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Chansey and Snorlax stop all of Zapdos's attacks cold. Electric-types do well against Zapdos, especially those who are immune to Thunderbolt, such as Jolteon and Electivire. Flygon and Gligar have a relatively easy time against Zapdos lacking Hidden Power Ice, while Gastrodon can wall Zapdos who aren't running Hidden Power Grass. Grass-types such as Celebi or Roserade function well against some Zapdos, but must be wary of Heat Wave and U-turn.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p> Zapdos gets Lightningrod, giving it a Special Attack boost when switching in on Electric-type moves. While not weak to the type this lets Zapdos come in on more Pokemon. However, Pressure is still better for SubRoost. The Special Attack boost can be very useful on the sweeping and choice sets. However, be warned, you get no Heat Wave using Lightningrod, causing you to lose coverage.</p>

    ------------------------------------
    Any form of improvement is welcome in the form of EV sets, damage calcs as I can't get any and sets in general but no gimmicky ones. Thank you.
  2. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
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    few notes: agility passing hasn't been viable since adv really, so i'd drop the last set. there could be a mention somewhere that you could use zapdos for your speed in a baton pass chain i guess, but it's still not that great of an option.

    not sure subroost needs to be that fast, or have it's own set. you could probably just throw substitute as an option on the defensive sets and mention more speed for a faster sub. i'm not against it having its own set if the defensive ones start to get a bit bloated though.
  3. MysticClaydol

    MysticClaydol

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    Changes made
  4. breh

    breh ⁰ ゝ⁰
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    you mention subpetaya in scarf, it doesn't exist
  5. MysticClaydol

    MysticClaydol

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    What I meant by that is offensive Empoleon with Sub, Agility with Petaya berry, if it is used in this gen but the set can be used for offensive empoleon in general.
  6. breh

    breh ⁰ ゝ⁰
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    but petaya berry literally does not exist yet. petaya is currently unreleased.
  7. MysticClaydol

    MysticClaydol

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    oh, I'll change SubPetaya to Offensive
  8. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    You should definetily flesh this out a bit mate, it's looking a bit skinny to me.

    Additional Comments is where you discuss the EV spread(s) and nature, alternative attacks / items / natures etc, as well as what counters the set and what pairs up well with it. Keep that in mind when writing the section and I'm sure you can find a lot more to write about

    also Jolteon has Volt Switch so it can scout
  9. MysticClaydol

    MysticClaydol

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    yeah but what if your opponent switches into a Ground type, so it does not have a "safe" scouting option and believe me Krookodile makes for a common switch in on Jolteon and Zapdos but U-turn can hurt it and give you the switch advantage you want. But this debate should probably be in the discussion section, anyway I should work on stuffing this analysis
  10. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    Something like this would make more sense imo:

    "Defensive"

    Zapdos

    -Thunderbolt
    -Roost
    -Substitute/Roar
    -Toxic

    Bold
    Leftovers
    248 HP/232 Def/24 Spe

    Covers both the phazer and the subroost sets. Specially-defensive can get a mention in AC, because to be honest I have never seen a specially defensive zapdos in the metagame. I'm not sure why the set in the OP has so many attacks with no SpA investment.
  11. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    Needs more Baton Pass and Rain Dance
  12. Sir Spanky

    Sir Spanky

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    I can't see Zapdos staying out of OU for all that long... it is a great pogey!

    Anyway on topic, no mention of Substitute at all? It is a generally great move, and only helps with a bulky Pressure-stall set. Even on a more offensive set it is a great way to scout out switches and get a super-effective hidden power in before the counter can break your sub. (i.e. it eases prediction)
  13. Omicron

    Omicron
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    I really like SubRoost in this meta. Even with shit like Rhyperior, it is always nice to tie with other base 100s and have decently powered attacks. Also, pressure outstalls things like Flygon and Heracross´s Stone Edge if predicted correctly. In fact, at full health, I believe Scarf variants never OHKO.
  14. MysticClaydol

    MysticClaydol

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    @the people who mentioned Substitute, i.e. SubRoost and Subbing for prediction.

    Substitute always has been a good move and using it for stalling or scouting is a good idea so I'm slashing it on the 4th move on the sweeper set but the only thing is that jolteon can do the same but Jolteon can't stall out Hera's moves which I mentioned in the origional SubRoost set just it is more predictable so it desrves a slash over the scouting moves. For the defensive sets i'm not so sure. So let's say after a Double-Down we have Physicaly Defensive Zapdos vs Life Orb Heracross. You sub as he predicts Heat Wave and goes in to Flygon bearing in mind no Rocks. In such a situation like this it would work but if Flygon was brought in it would not work so it takes very heavy prediction which is the only way to make it work but I'm hating myself for being so negative so i'll try to slash it in somewhere.

    Also, I'm using my 3ds internet to reply to this so don't expect any work until Friday.

    @chanzan Thanks for mentioning that fact, I should put entry hazards are required for the KO on Hera but are we talking just Rocks or the 3 layers of spikes just for clarification.

    @FlareBlitz Looking at the set it seems to be pretty well rounded but I was thing an alternative EV set up of max speed timid for Stalling out base 100s for AC aswell something like 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spd but if it turns out to be useless I won't bother.
  15. Santuga

    Santuga

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    I think SubRoost Zapdos should be included as people have been mentioning in the comments. It has been a very nice set for Zapdos since older generations, so I don't know why it should not work in this one.

    [SET]
    name: SubRoost
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Toxic / Hidden Power Ice
    nature: Timid
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 Spe
  16. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    Those are both fine as alternate spreads. I just wanted to help you consolidate the sets and make them more metagame relevant :)
  17. MysticClaydol

    MysticClaydol

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    Thanks to the acquirement of a proper PC I can finish this analysis's corrections tomorrow then it should be ready for QC checks.
  18. MysticClaydol

    MysticClaydol

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    Updates finished and ready for QC checks
  19. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    You mean just Abomasnow right? The Special sweeper set should have Timid as the primary nature. Always outspeeding opposing base 100's (Flygon, Staraptor*, Mew, Celebi) and some notable base 95's (Houndoom, Arcanine) is a pretty big deal.

    Good job otherwise.

    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  20. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    i personally run 248 hp / 252 spa / 8 spe. it takes hits extremely well, and hits hard. i guess this is up to QC, but a bulky spread with modest should be put into ac of the special attacking set
  21. Oglemi

    Oglemi gimme
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    Just a reminder.

    Special Attack should be abbreviated as SpA, Special Defense should be SpD, and Speed should be Spe.
  22. Snunch

    Snunch
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    Wait what? Since when did max speed subroost not deserve its own set?

    When I get home I'll talk to other QC members, but it plays completely differently than the wall set and it's effective, so I dont see a reason to merge them.
  23. Snunch

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    Yeah after talking with other QC remove sub from the wall set and make a dedicated subroost set
  24. MysticClaydol

    MysticClaydol

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    Added a SubRoost set decided by the majority.
  25. Oglemi

    Oglemi gimme
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    Next time don't fully write out the analysis until you're passed the QC stage. That way any changes that have to be made are easier to apply, and it saves both you and us time.

    Otherwise, these look fine.

    [​IMG]

    QC 2/3

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