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Zigzagoon (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Charmander, Jan 12, 2011.

  1. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    [​IMG]
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    Zigzagoon

    - - - - -

    [Overview]

    <p>Black and White brought many new threats to the table, as well as many new ways of taking care of them; however, almost nothing has changed for our little raccoon
    friend, Zigzagoon. Zigzagoon has terrible stats, a small physical movepool, and is generally underwhelming. With access to Belly Drum and ExtremeSpeed, Zigzagoon is liable to sweep any team short of a Steel-type. Luckily for Zigzagoon, there are few Steel-types in Little Cup, and they can generally be easily removed with the help of Magnemite. Few Normal-type sweepers or Belly Drum users have been introduced to Black and White, so Zigzagoon is still the best at what he does. Don't underestimate our little furry friend, Zigzagoon is back and ready to wreak havoc!</p>

    [SET]

    name: Belly Percussionist
    move 1: Belly Drum
    move 2: ExtremeSpeed
    move 3: Return
    move 4: Seed Bomb
    item: Salac Berry
    nature: Adamant
    ability: Pickup
    EVs: 196 Atk / 28 Def / 28 SpD / 196 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is the only set
    that Zigzagoon can pull off, but everyone and their grandmothers know that he does it damn well. Belly Drum and ExtremeSpeed work together in harmony to make Zigzagoon a complete monster. After a Belly Drum, this little raccoon's Attack stat skyrockets to a downright scary 52. ExtremeSpeed, alongside Sucker Punch, is the strongest priority move in the game, and with the STAB boost, it hits a satisfying 120 Base Power. Return is used as a secondary STAB to defeat Koffing, and it will always OHKO it with Stealth Rock after a Belly Drum. Seed Bomb is the only move that Zigzagoon gets to complement its Normal attacks, and it does a pretty good job at it too. After a Belly Drum, Seed Bomb will always OHKO standard Gastly and max HP max Defense Eviolite Frillish. Seed Bomb will also OHKO any Rock-types that attempt to wall ExtremeSpeed.</p>

    <p>The problem with this set is that it deals very little damage to Steel-types; Pokemon like
    Ferroseed and Bronzor can put an end to Zigzagoon's sweep easily. However, there is a simple way to remedy this problem: Magnemite; Magnemite's ability, Magnet Pull, will ensure that Steel-types can't escape from the battlefield, allowing Magnemite to dispose of any Steel-types with Hidden Power Fire or Thunderbolt.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>At first glance, Dig might seem like a viable option
    for defeating Steel-types; it's not, most of the commonly used Steel-types in the Little Cup metagame, like Bronzor and Ferroseed are barely scratched by Dig. Dig is also easy to predict around and can often get you phazed away by the likes of Murkrow if it switches in on the turn you burrow into the ground. Pursuit could work in place of Return, but Seed Bomb does enough damage to Ghosts already, making Pursuit unnecessary. Magnemite is a required teammate as it's the best way to eliminate Steel-types before Zigzagoon can even attempt a sweep. Sadly, Gluttony is illegal with ExtremeSpeed at Level 5 and can't be used. If this really bothers you, then Substitute can be used over Return to help Zigzagoon net that Salac boost.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Outside of Pursuit, Zigzagoon literally has nothing else to work with. Dig can be used if your opponent is
    without a Flying-type or a Levitator., although it's not advised.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p> Any Steel-type can put a stop to Zigzagoon's sweep; Bronzor is a good candidate as it can set up Stealth Rock, Reflect, Light Screen, Trick Room, or just kill Zigzagoon
    outright with Gyro Ball. Ferroseed resists Normal as well as having a 4x resistance to Seed Bomb. Ferroseed also has the ability Metal Thorns, meaning every time it is hit with a contact move, Zigzagoon will take damage. Bulky Ghost-types such as Duskull can take a hit, and then proceed to burn Zigzagoon with Will-O-Wisp. Anything with a powerful Fake Out, such as Meowth, can defeat Zigzagoon at 50% health.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Zigzagoon gets Quick Feet as a Dream World ability; with a Toxic Orb, Zigzagoon
    hits 24 Speed, and can effectively revenge kill most threats with STAB, 140 Base Power Facade. However, Zigzagoon will only have 12 Attack, which is far too weak to do anything without Belly Drum.</p>
  2. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    you may want to add pursuit as an option as it's the only way zigzagoon hits gastly
  3. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    Please read additional comments too

  4. KratosAurion

    KratosAurion

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    Not on Gastly, Seed Bomb is 4x Resisted given Gastly's Typing, and in this case, I can't really see 2x Pursuit doing the same damage as 0.5x Seed Bomb. I'll be running the calcs on this.

    Watch this space.

    EDIT: Your set lacks a Nature.

    EDIT 2:

    Adamant Max Atk Zigzagoon's Pursuit Vs Standard Misdreavus:
    13 Atk vs 12 Def & 22 HP (40 Base Power): 8 - 10 (36.36% - 45.45%)

    Adamant Max Atk Zigzagoon's Seed Bomb Vs Standard Misdreavus:
    13 Atk vs 12 Def & 22 HP (80 Base Power): 3 - 4 (13.64% - 18.18%)

    They don't do the same damage, I'd suggest running Pursuit, or else Zigzagoon would greatly appreciate Fighting Type support to eliminate Rock and Steel Types. Seed Bomb does remain a valid option, then a Komatama would become an excellent teamate for Zigzagoon.

    EDIT 3: It's only a 2x Resist, never mind these.
  5. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    It's actually only a 2x resist.

    Zigzagoon @ Salac Berry (196 EVs, +Nature, +6) Seed Bomb vs Gastly @ Life Orb (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 84.2 - 100% (16 - 19 HP)

    Zigzagoon @ Salac Berry (196 EVs, +Nature, +6) Pursuit vs Gastly @ Life Orb (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 178.9 - 210.5% (34 - 40 HP)

    Of course, Pursuit will be stronger on Gastly, but Seed Bomb will usually OHKO after SR anyway.

    Zigzagoon @ Salac Berry (196 EVs, +Nature, +6) Pursuit vs Misdreavus @ Life Orb (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 109 - 136.3% (24 - 30 HP)

    Zigzagoon @ Salac Berry (196 EVs, +Nature, +6) Seed Bomb vs Misdreavus @ Life Orb (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 109 - 131.8% (24 - 29 HP)

    Zigzagoon @ Salac Berry (196 EVs, +Nature, +6) Seed Bomb vs Pururiru @ Evolution Stone (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 96 - 120% (24 - 30 HP)

    Zigzagoon @ Salac Berry (196 EVs, +Nature, +6) Pursuit vs Pururiru @ Evolution Stone (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 48 - 64% (12 - 16 HP)

    Also, I know that 252/252 is more than needed, but I know it's max and I'm too lazy to check the "efficient" amount because it doesn't matter here anyway. Really Seed Bomb is so much more useful than Pursuit. Also, anyone that knows you have Pursuit won't switch so they can live, and anyone who doesn't know you have Pursuit won't switch anyway because you have nothing to scare them away with.

    EDIT: oops, I'll add the nature. Good catch, thanks
    responce to your edit:

    Your calc for Seed Bomb is wrong

    Zigzagoon @ Salac Berry (196 EVs, +Nature) Seed Bomb vs Misdreavus @ Leftovers (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 27.2 - 36.3% (6 - 8 HP)

    Ghost doesn't resist Grass incase you didn't know that. Also, we're not calculating for max attack, we're calcing at +6 (after a belly drum). At +6 they will both KO Misdreavus. If we were gonna run all the calcs with no boosts, we wouldn't be proving anything. Seriously, no boosts, this thing is useless.

    another edit: btw, don't be afraid to post again, editing your old post makes it harder for people to see there was a new post/new information in this thread, and you won't be double posting :/
  6. Banryu

    Banryu

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    EDIT: I skimmed it, didn't see Wynaut in there. No need to get all bitchy about it. >___>
  7. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    Sorry, but does no one ever read AC/Team Options anymore?

  8. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    Fake Out and its priority over Extremespeed revenge this set, particularly with Technician/after Belly Drum.

    But Quick Feet is pretty redundant with Espeed...and Teddiursa sorta does that shtick better.
  9. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    Yeah Teddiursa outclasses Zigzagoon in general except for the Belly Drum set. Better movepool and stats, and doesn't suck. At least Zigzagoon got the Extremespeed buff this gen
  10. Chubbs

    Chubbs

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    Couldn't you get a pair of pomeg glitched zigzagoons and breed them in a game where they get gluttony? As both parents have bellydrum and espeed, and the ability should be random.
  11. Nexus

    Nexus Day 358: Believe
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    Gluttony was introduced in fourth generation games. ExtremeSpeed is an event move, not an egg move, so breeding won't pass it down, doesn't matter if both parents have the move.
  12. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    it should be:

    item:
    ability:
    nature:
    evs:
  13. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    Edit: my bad guys - sorry
  14. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    ^Fake out's priority is now +3, I believe, according to the research thread.
  15. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    Yeah Fake Out is +3 now, according to Serebii.
  16. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    This is now Written. I'm waiting for QC approval
  17. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    10 day bump.

    EDIT: Just saying, I know there is an LO set on site for D/P, but I don't think it's viable any longer thanks to the advent of new Fighting-types (Zuruggu, Meditite, Dokkora, Kojufuu...) wrecking Zigzagoon. Without Belly Drum, it's not doing anything. Plus, it's incredibly weak. With no investment, Gligar still has higher attack than max attack Zigzagoon. Gligar only gets up to 18 attack :/
  18. macle

    macle ribbit
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  19. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    OK cool thanks
  20. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

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    Minor grammar error I noticed, bold is what I would put in.
  21. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    Good catch, thanks.
  22. Elevator Music

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    What macle said.

    My only nitpicks are to 1) take out the mention of Gluttony in the overview since it cant use it on the main set and 2) take out or change the sentence about ESpeed in the set comments. Even though its at +2, both Meditite and Croagunk still beat it at 25% with a +3 Fake Out

    Everything else looks fine to me though
  23. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    ok will do thanks
  24. Engineer Pikachu

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    Let's go.
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    Just wondering, how will Zigzagoon manage to activate Salac Berry? Also, should Zigzagoon manage to activate Salac Berry, Scarf Gastly outspeeds and kills.
  25. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    Belly Drum takes off 50%, and Gluttony activates held berries at 50%.

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