1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Zoroark

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by jumpluff, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. NDenizen

    NDenizen

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2010
    Messages:
    452
    There's also the fact that Night Daze is completely obvious and makes Illusion utterly redundant.
  2. Judicator

    Judicator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    415
    If I'm disguised as something that can't even learn Dark Pulse, I'll just run Night Daze anyway. I like to think it's a matter of preference rather than clear cut DARK PULSE IS BETTER or whatever. Like Flamethrower/Fire Blast only less different.
  3. Ms. Denbo

    Ms. Denbo

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    148
    Barely anything worth disguising as learn Dark Pulse; that's not the best reason to run it over Night Daze imo.
  4. NDenizen

    NDenizen

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2010
    Messages:
    452
    It's more the fact that:
    Night Daze = Absolutely Completely Zoroark
    Dark Pulse = Probably Zoroark ...but what if?

    Night Daze won't be netting KOs that Dark Pulse can't, it can miss, and it doesn't have a flinch chance. The accuracy loss relies on successive luck to reap the benefits. Choosing Night Daze and in the process also losing some synergy with Illusion seems unwise, you may as well not be running Zoroark in that case.
  5. XienZo

    XienZo

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    746
    If you're using Zoroark to use Dark Pulse disguised as another pokemon that actually uses Dark Pulse, you might as well have used the disguise pokemon to start with, and put something more useful on your team than a Zoroark that tries to surprise the opponent by doing nothing surprising.

    Edit: That being said, Dark Pulse is still better for the other reasons you mentioned. Just don't use Zoroark like that.
  6. Ms. Denbo

    Ms. Denbo

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    148
    Yes, that's exactly what I was trying to say. :)
  7. kmuffinman

    kmuffinman

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    169
    Hey not sure if this has been mentioned before, but is it worth mentioning that on the PO Dream World server there is no team preview, which is very useful for Zoroark. I know Smogon uses the Smogon server, but this can be very useful for anyone who uses Zoroark. I've used it as a lead in PO DW and it is very effective.
  8. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,939
    I actually disagree with this. I do use Dark Pulse, but I also sometimes disguise Zoroark as someone who can learn it. In order for it to work though, you have to do one of two things:

    1) Have the Pokemon you are disguising it as have a vastly different coverage move pool (not easy to do)
    2) Disguise as a gimmick. This is the better one. I don't know how many times I have had people laugh at my NP Dark Pulse "Weavile" only to be destroyed by Zoroark. Additionally, disguising as someone like Weavile can trick your opponent into switching to a Physical wall rather than a special one.

    The key to using Zoroark is to trick your opponent. If you can lull them into thinking that you are being stupid or that they have an advantage, you can win. Just because the disguise is similar to Zoro itself does not mean it is a bad disguise.
  9. NDenizen

    NDenizen

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2010
    Messages:
    452
    On that subject, i've tried a Substitute + Dark Pulse + Focus Blast Gengar and raged at how many people simply went ahead and attacked with psychic attacks anyways, not even thinking why it would have Dark Pulse instead of Shadow Ball. Nope, clearly a Gengar through and through herp derp.

    There is such a thing as being too clever when it comes to Illusion.
  10. XienZo

    XienZo

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    746
    That's the exact same thing though. If Dark Pulse does decent damage, then they know it's not actually a Weavile. That works, but it's not like it would have been any different if you had used Flamethrower or w/e since your opponent knows anyway as soon as you attack.

    If the Dark Pulse damage is low enough that they can't tell it's not a Weavile, then you're doing horrible damage.
  11. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,153
    This won't work against competent opponents. Weavile never runs Dark Pulse and Zoroark's appearance in team preview will instantly tip your opponent off. Its the same with pretty much any Pokemon that doesn't "use" Dark Pulse (like Gengar and Heatran, stop mentioning them as partners -_-), you can't pull the bluff off against smart opponents.

    The only Pokemon who uses Dark Pulse competitively besides Zoroark are Spiritomb (pressure ruins the disguise) and Houndoom (Stealth Rock weak)

    Edit: And really guys, using weavile as a partner even though its SR weak? :/
  12. Bruno Magno

    Bruno Magno

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    744
    If you don't have Stealth Rock on the field, Crobat is a good thing (but can be hit by Electric- and Ice-type moves), it lures Psychic moves and, obviously, not Fighting ones (who will use Focus Blast or Close Combat on Crobat? lol).

    If you use the standard set (Flamethrower - Hidden Power - Grass Knot - Focus Blast) Infernape and Slowbro works, even if a 105 Speed Slowbro is quite strange
  13. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,153
    Basically with Zoroark, team preview is ****ing it over. All you need to do is toss up some hazards and Zoroark's disguise will be blown 9/10 times, making it just another random shitmon. WAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY too many flying/ levitate/ steel/ SR resists for Zoroark to be able to get an actual disguise.
  14. kmuffinman

    kmuffinman

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    169
    The only exception to this is if Zoroark acts as a lead, which actually can be viable for scamming others since there are no entry hazards just yet. However, Fake Out ruins it for Zoroark
  15. bluemon

    bluemon

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,519
    YOU GUYS ARE USING IT WRONG.
    NO
    NO
    NO

    thats not how you use it.

    heres how you REALLYYY USE IT.

    use a sandstorm team.
    disguise it as excadrill as terrakion

    use a set
    @expert belt/balloon
    -hp ice
    -flamethrower
    -dark pulse
    -focus blast

    use team preview to see excadril and terrakion counters.
    if there are skarmories:
    flamethrower when it sees excadrill
    glicor:
    hp ice when it sees excadrill
    tangrowth: flamethrower
    slowbro: dark pulse.

    all are ohkoed and makes way for an excadrill sweep.

    balloon is for the extra awesomeness since illusion doesnt copy itemss and excadrill with balloon is common.

    only problems are stealth rock and ss damage but no one notices.
  16. XienZo

    XienZo

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    746
    I think they'll start noticing if you get a good match up and actually deal some damage, so it's really only good on it's first switch in (after a KO), before it actually takes SS damage. If you haven't KOed the opponents Excadrill/Terakion counter in that one turn, it's kinda dead weight.
  17. Heroes Fall

    Heroes Fall

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    207
    Meh, Zoroark won't be viable as long as team previewer is around. The second you see him with preview you know what to expect. The entire point of Illusion is for the surprise factor, when you remove that he is lackluster.
  18. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,153
    except that Excadrill and Terrakion don't take sandstorm damage, kinda wierd when an excadrill comes in and loses 18.75% isn't it?
  19. min min

    min min

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2010
    Messages:
    939
    Even when you know the other guy has a Zoroark, you still can't know and that's the brilliance of it. I just lost to a guy cloaking Zoroark as Zapdos, except that it wasn't Zoroark and the Zapdos raped.
  20. Cold Fusion

    Cold Fusion

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    146
    Uhh... Hydreigon? Though I doubt they would work well together, because of the compounded Fighting and Bug weakness.
  21. Heroes Fall

    Heroes Fall

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    207
    You didn't have any types of hazards on the field? Stealth Rock or Spikes would have been an indicator.
  22. bluemon

    bluemon

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,519
    Lol most of the guys i play are like

    "wtf what kind of excadrill has flamethrowe"
    *sends out tyranitar*
    "wtfff what kind of excadrill has focus blast"
    *sends out jellicent*
    "dark pulse?!"
    *rage quits*
  23. Drifloon

    Drifloon

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    199
    A competitive player would know Excadrill doesn't get flamethrower.
  24. Ms. Denbo

    Ms. Denbo

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    148
    And that even if he did no one would use it. Don't know how you're playing so many utter noobs that the majority of people can't figure it out, but it's really obvious.
  25. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,677
    I think a lot of you guys are missing the point. Of course anyone who is paying close attention and is knowledgeable about mechanics and movesets is going to be able to tell a Zoroark most of the time. The purpose isn't to fool those types of people, the purpose is specifically to catch those who aren't paying close enough attention, or who don't know the full movepools of almost all pokemon. For those of you who play TF2, you'll know the way this works from the Spy class. Experienced players won't be fooled by almost any disguise unless you go to extreme lengths, but you'll fool many, many more who aren't so experienced or perceptive.

    Still, this isn't going to win you any high ranking battles or tournaments obviously. It can help with laddering however, as a lot of the people you're playing aren't going to have their whole attention on the battle, or won't be experienced, etc.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)