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Pokémon Zygarde

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by ChaosNemesis, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. ChaosNemesis

    ChaosNemesis

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    Zygarde #718


    [​IMG]

    Type: [​IMG][​IMG]
    Ability: Aura Break
    Base Stats: 108 HP / 100 Atk / 121 Def / 81 SpA / 95 SpD / 95 Spe (600 BST)

    Complete Known Movepool

    Show Hide
    Level-Up Movepool

    Lv<70 - Glare
    Lv<70 - Bulldoze
    Lv<70 - Dragonbreath
    Lv<70 - Bite
    Lv<70 - Safeguard
    Lv<70 - Dig
    Lv<70 - Bind
    Lv<70 - Land's Wrath
    Lv<70 - Sandstorm
    Lv<70 - Haze
    Lv<70 - Crunch
    Lv<70 - Earthquake
    Lv<70 - Camouflage
    Lv<70 - Dragon Pulse
    Lv72 - Dragon Dance
    Lv80 - Coil
    Lv88 - ExtremeSpeed
    Lv93 - Outrage

    TM & HM Compatibility
    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM28 Dig
    TM31 Brick Break
    TM32 Double Team
    TM34 Sludge Wave
    TM37 Sandstorm
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM48 Round
    TM52 Focus Blast
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM71 Stone Edge
    TM78 Bulldoze
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM82 Dragon Tail
    TM86 Grass Knot
    TM87 Swagger
    TM88 Sleep Talk
    TM90 Substitute
    TM94 Rock Smash
    TM100 Confide
    HM04 Strength

    Notable Moves:

    Earthquake
    Dragon Tail
    Coil
    Stone Edge
    Rock Slide
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Dragon Dance
    Extremspeed
    Outrage
    Dragon Pulse
    Substitute
    Brick Break
    Crunch
    Haze
    Glare


    Set Recommendations
    Credit to dragonuser for those sets and their descriptions

    Zygarde @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
    Ability: Aura Break
    EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Extreme Speed

    This set trades bolstering Zygarde's naturally high physical bulk for boosting its offensive presence. Dragon Dance is its main means of doing so, as Zygarde is given ample opportunities to boost due to its incredible physical bulk. Zygarde's two STABs, Outrage and Earthquake, get excellent coverage against most of the metagame. Extreme Speed helps to alleviate Zygarde's rather sub-par Speed stat, while also preventing him from being revenged killed by priority users. Life Orb boosts Zygarde's damage output incredibly, but it is important to note that it drastically reduces its longevity. On the other hand, Lum Berry helps cure any status condition that Zygarde may acquire while setting up, while also possibly healing Zygarde of Outrage confusion.

    A Yache Berry is also a viable alternative for the Item choice, helping to reduce Zygarde's only 4x weakness. Additionally, Stone Edge is a viable option over Extreme Speed, as it shreds Togekiss, one of the main checks to Zygarde. If Stone Edge is used, an EV spread of 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spd with a Jolly nature should be used, in order to outspeed Mega Alakazam at +1.

    This set greatly appreciates checks to physical walls such as Skarmory and Hippowdon and checks to bulky Fairy-Type Pokemon such as Togekiss. Rotom-W works excellently, being able to reliably switch in on Skarmory and Hippowdon while also checking Togekiss. Gengar also works fairly well, with the Mega Evolution being able to trap and KO Skarmory and Togekiss, and the normal form being able to wall most Hippowdon sets.

    Zygarde @ Leftovers
    Trait: Aura Break
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Coil
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Tail
    - Extreme Speed

    This set attempts to mix Zygarde's incredible defensive capabilities with its offensive prowess. Unlike the Dragon Dance set, this set focuses more on Zygarde's bulk and attempts to become a bulky sweeper that is unable to be phazed out. Earthquake is the main attack of this set, with Dragon Tail providing useful coverage. Dragon Tail also prevents Zygarde from being Whirlwinded out by Hippowdon or Skarmory, heavily limiting the ways those physical walls can deal with Zygarde. In conjunction with Earthquake, Extreme Speed provides useful coverage, while also offsetting Zygarde's fairly sub-par Speed stat.

    This set greatly appreciates entry hazard support, not only to aid in its sweep but to complement the forced switching caused by Dragon Tail. This set also appreciates partners who can handle bulky Fairy-type Pokemon, such as Togekiss and Sylveon, making Scizor an ideal partner. Similarly, Mega Gengar also serves as a fairly effective partner, being able to trap and kill weakened Fairy-type Pokemon, while also being able to block Rapid Spin in the effort to keep hazards on the field.

    Zygarde @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Aura Break
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Impish Nature
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Tail

    With Zygarde's naturally high physical bulk, it can easily run a purely defensive set. Rest serves as Zygarde's main means of recovery, alleviating any status conditions acquired as well, while Sleep Talk prevents it from being setup bait for a majority of the metagame. Earthquake and Dragon Tail have good synergy with each other, while Dragon Tail helps discourage Pokemon from setting up on Zygarde. Rocky Helmet awards more residual damage, forcing the opponent to take damage whenever contact is made with Zygarde, however it is important to note that the lack of Leftovers reduces Zygarde's longevity.

    Specially Defensive Fairy-type Pokemon make excellent partners for this Zygarde set. They are immune to one of Zygarde's main weaknesses and often carry cleric moves and Wish, which aid Zygarde. Entry hazards are also greatly appreciated, due to the heavy amount of phazing Zygarde performs.


    Checks and Counters

    Bulky Fairy-type Pokemon, particularly Togekiss, serve as excellent checks to Zygarde. Togekiss is immune to Zygarde's STABs, while also being able to threaten it with a STAB Fairy-type attack. Skarmory and Hippowdon do particularly well against the Dragon Dance set, being able to phaze it out or use it as entry hazard setup bait. Additionally, Bronzong and Forretress do fairly well versus Zygarde, being able to resist Outrage, and in Bronzong's case, immune to Earthquake, allowing them to damage Zygarde fairly reliably. Gliscor is able to tank a hit while inflicting it with Toxic. Ice Shard users such as Mamoswine and Weavile are reliable checks to any Zygarde lacking Extreme Speed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2013
  2. Codraroll

    Codraroll
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    Well, I think I can answer that question:
    As you might see, its BST is kinda underwhelming in a game introducing Mega Evolutions. Even then, good ol' Garchomp gives it stiff competition. As far as legendaries go, it's really nothing to write home about. While its BST is solid, it doesn't stand out in any department, so it can't specialize that well. It can hit decently hard, but there are plenty of Pokémon that can hit a lot harder. It's decently fast, but there are many faster ones out there. It can take hits decently enough, but lacks the brute stopping power possessed by many other walls. For any task you set Zygarde to do, there exists up to several others who can do it better.

    Zygarde appears to lack good STAB moves, or moves that set it apart from the crowd in any way. I guess Dragon Dance + Extremespeed is kinda cool, but it remains to be seen how useful it will be.

    Its ability is also almost worthless. It only affects TWO Pokémon, both of which is immune to one of Zygarde's STAB attack types, and neutral to the other.

    I think we'll end up in a Kyurem situation here. Kyurem in BW was bad, but it got a couple powerful formes in the "third version" games. There will probably be a follow-up game to XY (I can't wait already!), in which Zygarde will play a bigger role, and get a new forme or two (or a Mega Evolution), which brings it into relevance again. Until then, however, it's simply mediocre.
  3. Hiphopanonymous

    Hiphopanonymous

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    I completely agree with Cobraroll. It looks to be POTENTIALLY (correct me if I'm wrong here), a Jack of all Trades type. Even at +1, an unSTABed ES coming off of base 100 Atk seems pretty underwhelming. In the lower tiers it'll make a nice dent, but I'm doubting Zygarde will even end up UU when the meta finally settles, due to those damned Fairies. I suppose I shouldn't be counting my chickens before they hatch though, GF will more than likely bring out a 3rd game and buff the living bajeezus outta this thing, if BW was any indication.

    It DOES get all of Glare, DD, and Coil, so I think it's more than possible that a good niche will be found for it. Paralyzing incoming counters seems pretty awesome, crippling them for the rest of the match to be taken out later. Or giving it paralysis support via Rachi or something would give it some decent setup opportunities.

    That movepool looks to leave much desired though, the two Ghost/Grass types could easily bait an Outrage (depending on which tier), and then switch into a Steel or Fairy and win all the momentums. Well, assuming the moveset you posted allows Zygarde to be used to it's full potential, that is. Kinda looking forward to seeing where this slug-dragonfly goes. We'll just have to wait and see.
    Hyota, Luigifan and unfixable like this.
  4. JSND

    JSND

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    As with every kind of "mediocre" pokemon, the first question to ask yourself whenever you use Zygarde is "what can this thing do, that other things can't?"

    ....not so much

    Glare
    Coil

    These two are the only moves that it have that no other Dragon type, or at least, not other relevant Dragon types have, or use.

    From here, you can go with something like....

    Leftovers
    252 HP/252 DEF/6 SP.D
    Relaxed
    - Coil
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Subsitute

    or


    Leftovers
    252 HP/252 DEF/6 SP.D
    Relaxed
    - Toxic
    - Dragon Tail
    - Glare
    - Subsitute

    Which every Dragonite and their mom can do


    Note that both of these set faces the typical problem known as "Throw random Dragon #53465364562168 on my face"

    I can see it having a niche if its base was like 630 or 650 and it have higher bulk and somewhat higher offense, but as of now? nope
  5. SmashBrosBrawl

    SmashBrosBrawl

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    Any attempt at running dragon dance+extremespeed is completely outclassed by dragonite. Any attempt at choiced items or all-out-attacker is outclassed by garchomp. I think a coil+glare set seems to have more potential as a bulk attacker that can support its team. At this point its really hard to judge, and no one knows in what tier zygarde will end up in. For example, if it ends up in a lower tier than most other dragons, then it can easily run any set it wants without fear of being outclassed. But until then, we need to work with its unique characteristics to make the best out of it.
    Luigifan and Hiphopanonymous like this.
  6. CoolStoryBrobat

    CoolStoryBrobat The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
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    It's like Dragonite and Flygon had a disappointing baby...I legitimately think the only thing it has over Flygon is DD and ES. Going off JSND's comment though and stretching it a bit, a Coil + Dragon Tail set would be interesting to say the least
  7. Hiphopanonymous

    Hiphopanonymous

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    I didn't even think of this. Being faster than Dnite and lacking a SR weakness should definitely give it a niche as a somewhat bulky DDer, especially in lower tiers. Although, Dnite DOES have Multiscale...

    Until it accidentally brings in something that packs an Ice move. Anybody know if Zygarde gets Roost or some form of reliable recovery? That would make Coil + Dragon Tail pretty amazing imo.
    Luigifan likes this.
  8. JSND

    JSND

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    I think its less Dragonite and Flygon having a disapointing baby and more Volcarona, Rayquaza, and Giratina trying to have hot Fiery Dance flavored threesome with each other.

    Sadly you can guess how well it goes when two of its parents are sterile


    Rest Talk DT set seems less attractive with Fairy Types around
  9. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
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    Zygarde isn't comparable to garchomp. The only thing they have in common are their typing which in zygardes case is pretty awful considering it has to function as a wall. Aura break is useless, xerneas isn't threatened by it while yveltal can stall it out, it has no use in any other tier. Zygardes lacks offensive presence, it can't wall shit, there's not much it really can do at all.

    On a side note it has one of the best signature moves of all legendaries, being a 90 bp earthquake with the extra effect of being unable to hit dig users. Yes plz
  10. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    I don't know what others are rambling about but this pokemon is gonna make any team that chooses Xernas or Yveltal (I can't spell any of the new gen 6 pokemon, spare me) a team with a liability. A team that has an Aura reversed means not only are those two losing STAB on their most powerful attacks, it also means any other pokemon counting on Dark or Fairy coverage or STABs are playing with 3 moves only.

    Glare should be abused like hell, and his main set a defensive one. Something like this should work fine:

    Zygarde@Leftovers/Lum Berry
    252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
    Relaxed/Brave Nature

    Earth Quake
    Dragon Tail
    Glare
    Subsitute


    Substitute on anything that doesn't threat it like Ferrothorn and the like, Shuffle, if they send out Xernas to Geomancy, Glare them, and then hit them with Earth Quake. Someone should calculate how much evs need to be invested in Atk so Zygarde can 2HKO the reindeer with EQ. I suspect Ubers will toy a lot with Clefairy or Jigglytuff because of their Normal/Fairy nature and how they mess up Tina so badly, so this is a nice replacement.
  11. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
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    +2 xerneas really doesn't give a shit and will still ohko with moonblast after sr.

    Yveltal mostly uses oblivion wing with sub anyhow so losing dark aura isn't that big of a deal. And zygarde is set up bait since it can't threaten yveltal in any way
  12. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    A paralyzed Xerneas is a dead one, you just stopped a monster in it's tracks and that's assuming you've only Paralyzed it.

    Edit: And till now a Yveltal has no boosting moves, so it's basically just lost it's STAB.
  13. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
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    Factoring accuracy, and the fact that only laddertards would switch in xerneas into zygarde, it's safe to say it can't do much if anything to xerneas.
  14. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Except Zygarde is weak to Fairy. Assuming Aura Break inverts the Aura abilities to they're x0.7 instead of x1.3, it means that Xerneas will be doing x1.4 damage before STAB as opposed to the usual x1.3 on neutral targets. That is not an improvement.

    Also, as far as we know, the legendaries' abilities only apply when they're on the field, just like any other, so in Singles, it'll only help against Xerneas and Yveltal anyway. Essentially, it makes it neutral to Xerneas's Fairy moves and resistant to Yveltal's Dark moves, and nothing more.
  15. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    90 accuracy is not an issue, and paralysis to Xerneas is a huge blow to it seeing how it will almost always carry a Power Herb to it.
  16. Hiphopanonymous

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    I agree with Haruno here--even IF Xerneas gets paralyzed on the switch, Zygarde doesn't seem to have anything to club it to death with, and the mere thought of switching screams "GEOMANCY GO GO GO," so I think it'll need Scizor as a teammate to be able to deal with the reindeer properly. Hell, even IF Zygarde doesn't switch, Xerneas might just Geomancy anyways and negate the Para speed drop, then start squishing things via Moonblast.
  17. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
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    Xerneas IS NOT switching into anything that could para and ruin it's sweeping potential. Why you think otherwise is beyond me.
  18. sparktrain

    sparktrain

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    It will certainly be useful in ubers just for the aura reversing effect, but it'll be a very obscure mon in OU... I think a more defensive set or a bulky attacker would be one of the better ways to go because it seems to be outclassed offensively by other dragons.
  19. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
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    Shame the only two mons that it "stops" either ohko's it in xerneas' case or turn it into setup bait in yveltals case. Utterly useless while being unable to do jack shit to the rest of the tier.
  20. ace combat

    ace combat

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    This is simply not true in game it says Mold Breaker and Turboblaze andTeravolt are clones of each other during the TM quiz.

    On topic I don't think you should be comparing them to Xerneas or Yveltal and pitting Zygarde against them because they will probably (almost 100%) be in different tiers. I think that it is really better to compare him to Flygon because that is probably going to be the best pokmon to compare him to as he will probably be in the same tier. In this case, he completely outclasses Flygon with his extra bulk and having dragon dance.
    Luigifan likes this.
  21. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
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    Shame how levitate is a massive advantage over zygarde due to being immune to spikes but more importantly immunity to sticky web.
    LuvdiscSushi and Luigifan like this.
  22. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    People are hating on Zygarde way too much. Solid stats all around, good typing, and good movepool make him a good Pokemon already. Its stat spread and movepool is also very different from Garchomp and has the right tools to avoid being outclassed by its more offensive competitor. I mean, this thing is more bulky than freaking Hippowdon, way faster, and has a very good boosting move (Coil) as well as strong priority. Here is what i think will be its best set:

    Zygarde @ Leftovers
    Ability: Aura Break
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk or 252 Spe (or any spread between 252 Spe and 252 Atk)
    Nature: Adamant or Jolly
    - Coil
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge / Dragon Tail
    - Extremspeed

    With his phenomenal bulk and good typing finding setup chances won't be difficult. With just one Coil under its belt this thing is unkillable from the physical side. You don't believe me? Check out for yourself:

    252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Outrage vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Zygarde: 336-396 (80 - 94.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Zygarde: 244-292 (58.09 - 69.52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Of course special attackers can still take it out with Ice Beam or special Dragon moves, but at late-game it won't be that hard to wear down those special attackers to the KO range of +1 Exremspeed. Earthquake + Stone Edge provides unresisted neutral coverage on anything except from Bronzong while Dragon Tail bypasses would-be counters such as Hippowdon and Skarmory. Extremespeed is what makes this set work and makes Zygarde useful even against offensive teams, giving it a very strong priority attack that has good neutral coverage and even bypasses opposing priority hits (Ice Shard from Weavile for example). Having a good physical bulky booster (i am talking about Bulk Up or Coil users) that isn't hopelessly slow (Conkeldurr) and has really great coverage is something that was lacking from OU, and Zygarde fits this role like a glove. Of course its effectiveness will depend on how the metagame will shape up but i think it has potential and it fills a unique role that OU has been lacking for a long time.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
    Buckert, MikeDawg, Magnemite and 15 others like this.
  23. escarlata

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    This actually looks pretty good on paper. The fact that it gets Coil means it doesn't get screwed over Stone Miss and gets perfectly accurate, perfect neutral coverage with ES. Salamence can work well with Zygarde because since it can lure in and KO Hippowdon and Skarmory to Zygarde with Fire Blast and Draco Meteor respectively, allowing Zygarde to come in and get a few Coils up. For speed, I think you should run at least 144 EVs so that you can outspeed and 2HKO Balloon Heatran before it 2HKOs you in return with HP Ice
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2013
  24. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    As far as I can tell, this thing doesn't learn Dragon Claw. As far as physical dragon moves are concerned, Outrage and dragon tail are your options.

    Also, I don't see why this thing has to run extremespeed on its dragon dance set to have a niche. The only other pokemon with this typing don't get dragon dance, and are less bulky. You should be looking to set up more than one dragon dance, probably, in order to make up for the lack of power, and at that point the priority is not particularly useful. Perhaps Substitute would be a sensible 4th move?
  25. Jirachee

    Jirachee Kaleidoscope
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    holy fuck, this thing is going to wreck in ou.

    Sure, it doesn't have the same ridiculous attack stat as the other Dragons, but it still got a pretty decent stat, especially since it can boost it. It also has high powered STAB moves that offer good coverage so I don't think it will be lacking in the offensive department. The thing that strikes me as absolutely fucking awesome is that it gets DD and has better bulky than Hippowdon, which happens to be one of the bulkiest Pokemon Game Freak ever created. DD Zygarde @ Yache Berry will be almost impossible to revenge kill. With that bulk, you need a super effective move to KO. This thing has 3 weaknesses (Ice x4, Dragon x2, Fairy x2), and Yache solves the problem since most scarfers carry weak Ice moves anyway that will not KO with Yache. Dragon Scarfers took a huge hit this gen with the introduction of the Fairy type, so something like Scarf Latios is going to be much less common and effective anyway. Fairies, from what we've seen, are pretty much all slow so if they run a Scarf set, they won't outspeed Zygarde anyway. This thing looks absolutely incredible lol
    Aoda, Arikado and AccidentalGreed like this.

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