Pokémon Zygarde

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by ChaosNemesis, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. Edgar81539

    Edgar81539

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    I love how everybody was quick to dismiss this little beast only on base to his stats. They got corrected, since Zygarde is one of the best, if not the best, setup sweeper on Overused Beta. I think that even if we get Dragon Rush as a tutor move, I won't stop using my EdgeQuake/ES/Coil Zygarde, it's just too perfect on this priority /AssaultVest packed metagame.
  2. Kaka-Sensei

    Kaka-Sensei

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    When I first saw Zygarde, I was appalled. Useless ability, Relatively Low BST, Typing that makes it look like a Wannabe Garchomp, and an ugly sprite.

    Upon further inspection, it's got some good defenses in 108/121/95. Electric Immunity is always good. And unlike Kyurem, this guy has a great, if not, amusing movepool in Dragon Dance, Coil, Rock Slide/Stone Miss, Earthquake, Outrage, Glare, Crunch, Dragon Tail, Extreme Speed, and Haze.
    If I'm going to use Zygarde I think I'd go for an Assault vest set. It has the offensive and defensive capabilities, as well as a wide movepool.

    Zygarde @ Assault Vest
    Trait: Aura Break
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Extreme Speed
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Tail

    He can phaze for hazard damage early-game. He can clean up late-game. He can hit like a truck, and he can take hits that aren't Ice-type.
  3. Specogrunt

    Specogrunt

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    But wait Guys... This thing can learn Defog XD... Just kidding, Gen 6 defog is useful because it removes all entry hazards (stealth rocks and stuff)
    So I was thinking

    Dragon Tail
    Haze
    Glare
    Defog

    with max Defence and attack Ev. Tell me what you think. By the way I am new to this forum :)
  4. GarchompPit

    GarchompPit

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    After a lot of research on wifi/PS and with the help of Smogon and other pokemon related websites I managed to create an in-depth video analysis for Zygarde..I don't know if this is should be posted here or not..If I am not allowed to post a youtube video here please remove my post..Thanks!
    So I think my video expresses MY opinion about Zygarde and its capabilities in today's metagame...(Watch the video analysis for more info(English is my second language so sorry if you find any mistakes))
  5. Cheatingtaco

    Cheatingtaco

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    Bottom line- Zygarde is good until you realise he's a legendary.
  6. Edgar81539

    Edgar81539

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    And so? Being a legendary doesn't make a pokemon automatically good. See Articuno, Moltres, Regice, Regirock, Phione, Entei, Mesprit, Cresselia and Kyurem.
  7. Specogrunt

    Specogrunt

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    Kyurem Is'nt actually that bad, BW kyurem is mediocre but B2W2 Kyurem (Normal Kyurem not blaack or white kyurem) anyway B2W2 Normal Kyurem's stats were raised so it has 130 atk and 130 spatk
    :)

    Zygarde isnt that ugly and BTW Assualt Vest only allows you to use Physical moves so you wouldnt be able to Dragon Dance
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2013
  8. Cheatingtaco

    Cheatingtaco

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    UP until this gen, though, we've always had really decent third legendaries. Suicune, Rayquaza, Giratina and somewhat Kyurem were all very good.
  9. Edgar81539

    Edgar81539

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    But not most of the ones I named. Point is, being legendary doesn't make a pokemon good, and being this useful on Beta OU when everybody was quick to dismiss Zygarde as pathetic, is amazing.
  10. Cheatingtaco

    Cheatingtaco

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    I'm not dismissing him, he's a great pokemon, I just think he lacks the firepower to even compete with his predecessors.
  11. Kairyu_Gen1

    Kairyu_Gen1

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    How is Zygarde not comparable to these 4? Nobody's claiming Zygarde will be an uber threat like Rayquaza and Giratina, but he's too good to be UU like Suicune, or no man's land (BL) like Kyurem (yes his forms are decent in OU and Uber, but if you think Zygarde's a disgrace to the legendary name, just look a Kyurem-B who has the 2nd highest BST ever, and isn't uber). I really don't know why we're even mentioning the L word, because for me the only thing it means is that they can't breed.
  12. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    Base Kyurem was the best Blizzard spammer in Doubles until Mega Abomasnow came along.
  13. Cheatingtaco

    Cheatingtaco

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    All I'm saying is that he is definatly not a unique pokemon and, in my opinion, has far too many checks & counters. Why has nobody brought up Azumarill yet? I'm definatly not dismissing him, I'm just saying his bad offensive movepool + terrible BST + very bad typing = UU at best.
  14. Kairyu_Gen1

    Kairyu_Gen1

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    Not unique? He has some pretty rare moves like coil and extreme speed. Access to extremespeed in this priority heavy metagame alone makes him worth a look. He can beat every priority user I can think of

    Aqua jets from Azumarill can 5HKO (18.7-22.6) an unboosted Zygarde (which is rare since Zygarde can coil very easily considering his bulk), while Earthquake 2HKO's (52.7-62.4) Azumarill. Azu's Play Rough 2HKO's (choice band sets do OHKO though) Zygarde , but since Zygarde's faster, Zygarde still wins in most situations

    Shallow? Yes. Bad? No. He has 2 great boosting moves that make up for his below average atk, and access to earthquake, extremespeed, stone edge, and crunch (yeah, that's pretty much it), but only 9 pokemon (Breloom, Virizion, Chesnaught, Torterra, Bronzong, Claydol, and Flygon, and only the last 3 can really hit him back if he gets a few coils in) resist earthquake and stone edge, meaning team support isn't that difficult. He doesn't have a lot, but he has what he needs.

    Besides Kyurem, 600 is the highest BST in OU and is higher than every non [psuedo] legendary there is. How is that terrible?

    weak to ice, dragon, and fairy, 3 common offensive types, but if you had read the thread, we had already discussed how he can beat salamence, dragonite*, garchomp, kyurem, and every fairy/ice type 1 on 1 almost every single time. That basically leaves Noivern, Hydreigon, lati@s, and floating ice beams that can really hurt him.

    *we didn't fully discuss dragonite, while zygarde can beat a DD set, weaknite and mixed sets rip this snake apart

    I think I've made it clear that he can hold his own and then some in OU, and there's really no reason he should end up any lower imo. Yes he has checks, but if he didn't he'd be banned to uber. I realize you were just pointing out some flaws in this pokemon, but would you please do some more research before making a statement like putting this guy in UU. He's a fantastic physical tank, and an even better late game cleaner. And most importantly, he's pretty easy to fit onto a team. I'd say that zygarde's only real negative attribute is that he's banned from vgc (land's wrath woulda been awesome in season 2).
    ImperialWrath, BlackLight and Banryu like this.
  15. Kadabrium

    Kadabrium

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    Only if it had Shed Skin it would be OU. A supposed slow boosting attacker with a 4x weakness and no recovery of either hp or status? Siriusly?
  16. Kairyu_Gen1

    Kairyu_Gen1

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    /sigh
    1. there's no legal way for him to get shed skin, so why are we talking about it?
    2. I'd love to here your reasoning for this statement. Is it that Zygarde has too many counters? Are his stats too low? Will he fall victim to too many people labeling him as bad without adequate reasoning and not have the usage to make OU? Your previous posts show it having a weakness to ice beams and WoW, but so is every physical dragon in OU (except for dragonite, who laughs at ice beams). This gen's looking like it'll have a lot more bulky attackers and a defensive focus than BW2, and really, who does bulky attacking better than this guy (don't answer that, I know there are some, but he's still an honorable mention), and on top of that, he's hardly slow, 95 base speed is enough to beat a lot of its would-be counters
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  17. TrippingRocks

    TrippingRocks

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    Isn't that kind of like Gyarados?
  18. Kadabrium

    Kadabrium

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    Gyarados has dual stabs that nothing is immune to, Taunt, an immunity, and two useful abilities. Nor is there an electric type priority.
  19. PokemonMasterDebater

    PokemonMasterDebater

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    1. Gyarados has to use Bounce as a secondary STAB, which is inaccurate and takes a charge up turn.
    2. Why would you put Taunt on a "boosting sweeper"?
    3. Zygarde also has an immunity, to electric.
    4. Zygarde has ESpeed, which has higher priority than Ice Shard.
    Also Gyara is weak to rocks, which hurts his bulk substantially.
  20. Edgar81539

    Edgar81539

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    Let's see the max Mamoswine, the best Ice Shard User on OU, can do to Zygarde:

    252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 244-292 (58 - 69.5%)

    And taking into account that being locked into Ice Shard is terribly stupid, let's use the normal Mamoswine, the one with Lefties or Sash

    252+ Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 168-196 (40 - 46.6%)

    3HKO.

    While Zygarde...

    +1 252+ Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 270-318 (63.6 - 75%)
    +1 252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 144-170 (33.9 - 40%)


    At the +1 Zygarde gets when you switch out or use U-turn, he 2HKOes trough a combination of Earthquake and Extreme Speed, unless Mamoswine uses
    Icicle Crash. So the argument of "weak to priority" is stupid.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  21. TrippingRocks

    TrippingRocks

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    We can easily state what Gyarados has over Zygarde or what Zygarde has over Gyarados, but they both are set-up sweepers that have no reliable form of recovery or status healing and 4x weakness. Yet... Gyarados has been in OU for a while and may stay in OU for this new generation.
  22. Kadabrium

    Kadabrium

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    1.Gyarados has much higher attack, is much more unpredictable with sub/taunt/mega, and can actually afford to run only 2 attacks without losing too much coverage.
    2.Gyarados forces out and sets up on most EQ users without roar(gliscor for example), while most electric types that even are OU shit on zygarde with another move.
    3.GYarados can afford to run max speed/attack which fills a completely different role than Z. Some of you are assuming that Zygarde runs both coil and DD and has 1020 EV points.

    +1 4 Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 195-229 (54.01 - 63.43%)
    +1 4 Atk Zygarde Extremespeed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 104-123 (28.8 - 34.07%)

    252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 296-348 (82.68 - 97.2%)
  23. Edgar81539

    Edgar81539

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    I'm talking about the Coil set, so please, use the same set I'm using for calculations. You reduced Zygarde ev's in attack to 4 (very stupid) and also his HP evs to 4. Also, as I said, you're going to use Mamoswine as a switch-in or revenge killer, because you're never going to switch-in Zygarde into Mamoswine.
  24. Kadabrium

    Kadabrium

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    I myself have swept in OU with Zygarde many times, and still I think the only reason why some consider it good is that there isnt anything else to compare it to.
    Its stats are in between Gyarados/Salamence and Conkeldurr/Reuniclus all of thich are OU, but has neither the raw power of the former group or the longevity of the latter, which severely undermines its general usefulness.
  25. Kadabrium

    Kadabrium

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    My fault. If you run 252HP/252Atk, EQ+Espeed 2hkos, but then Mamoswine outspeeds and uses Icicle Crash instead.
    +1 252+ Atk Zygarde Extremespeed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 143-169 (39.61 - 46.81%)

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