Revenankh Analysis Workshop

[Hyra]

needs to be finished!

I will post comments later

 

[latinoheat]

knock off should be in other options because you think enough about it to list it in opinion.

 

[Hyra]

Okay, Bulk Up set is fine, just needs to have fine tuned EV's after some playtesting. I suggest adding a RestTalk set, although I am not sure how that would work out. Choice Set should probably be just Band, he's a little to slow to use Scarf. Maybe add a Nasty Plot, or at least mention it in Other Options.


Make this thing the new 3 Attack one and just call it Life Orb.

Sorry for the double post. I made some modifications to the Life Orb set I posted before.

[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Hammer Arm
move 2: Shadow Sneak/ Shadow Punch
move 3: Power Whip/ Ice Punch
move 4: Moonlight/ Rest
item: Life Orb
ability: Air Lock/ Shed Skin
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Speed

 

[Sunday]

ok so should it go:

Bulk Up set. Only Moonlight recommended.
Life Orb / 3 Atks, using Jonothans sugestions.
Choice Band set, easy peasy.

Nasty Plot is in other options, if only for the reason of telling people not to use it... Seriously this things special movepool is even worse than it's physical, and is walled by exactly the same things and more.

 

[Jonathan]

In my opinion Nasty Plot is not nearly as much of a joke as you guys make it out to be. Revenankh can reach 251 Special Attack with a positive nature and 252 EVs, and he certainly has the defenses to use NP.

A set like:

Revenankh @ not sure, maybe Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 6 Spd (these can be fine-tuned later)
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Electric] or [Ice] / Moonlight

could potentially be devastating, reaching 502 Special Attack after a single NP. Blissy can't do much expect T-wave, and it is easily 2HKOed by Focus Blast after a NP. HP Electric is mainly for Flying types, HP Ice for Dragons. Those Bulky Poisons who fare quite well against physical versions will be running for cover if they switch into a NP, fearing Shadow Ball the next turn. Speaking of which, Revenankh's lower SAtk is made up for by its stronger Special STAB moves. Observe:

Max SAtk (251) Shadow Ball vs. 252HP/252SDef Neutral Celebi (just chose a random Poke, I know this EV spread isn't likely but I just want to illustrate relative power): 37-43%

Max Atk (339) Shadow Punch vs. 252HP/252Def Neutral Celebi (see above note): 37-44%

Practically the same. And that's before Nasty Plot. And that's not even considering Shadow Sneak. And in the case of Celebi, its defense is usually higher, favoring attacking it from the special side. In fact, most Pokes you'd switch into Revenankh have a higher defense than special defense (expecting a physical assault). Consider this now:

Max SAtk (251) Focus Blast vs. 252HP/252SDef Neutral Jirachi (just chose a random Poke, I know this EV spread isn't likely but I just want to illustrate relative power): 27-32%

Max Atk (339) Hammer Arm vs. 252HP/252Def Neutral Jirachi (see above note): 31-36%

Okay, so Hammer Arm does about 4% more on average and doesn't suffer from accuracy issues. But then again, Focus Blast benefits from Nasty Plot, the surprise factor, and the fact that it'll usually be hitting Pokes with a worse Defense than Special Defense.

I came second in the 4th Official Smogon Tournament, so please don't take my comments too lightly. Normally I wouldn't brag about this, but I want to add some credibility to this post seeing as everyone else in this thread seems to think Nasty Plot is a joke.

 

[Hyra]

Agreeing with Jonathan again. No one thought Special Salamence or Tyraniboah were any good at first. This is just as good as NP Crobat, except it has better moves to use (Shadow Ball=Air Slash, Focus Blast>HP Fight). And it can hit Blissey, Cresselia, etc. SuperEffective. The only special walls it can't use type advantages on are Bronzong and Shuckle. The rest will just fall because they are hit SE.

Also, it increases its attacking Stat faster than a Bulk Upper (important in DP, which is why Suicune is the only CMer left):

Max SAtk -- 251
1 Nasty Plot -- 502
2 Nasty Plots -- 753

Max Atk -- 339
1 Bulk Up -- 508.5
2 Bulk Ups -- 678

After two turns, Nasty Plot has more Attack Stat and more Move Base Power. They are relatively equal for the first two turns though.

 

[Dane]

Variation of the Bulk Up set, focused more on survivability. Haven't had a chance to test it yet though. EVs swiped from the initial Bulk Up set.

[SET]
Name: Never Gonna Get You Down
Move 1: Bulk Up
Move 2: Taunt
Move 3: Drain Punch / Ominous Wind / Ancient Power
Move 4: Rest
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD

This set should only EVER be used in conjunction with Toxic Spikes support. Bulk Up is for obvious reasons. Use it to up your defense more than anything else, but it also increases attack which helps if using Drain Punch. Ominous Wind is an option for a STAB'ed chance at increasing all stats, while Ancient Power is an option for a chance at increasing all stats without worrying about the enemy being immune. Ancient Power also has an edge over the other options because of it's ability to hit many/most flying types super effective, who are otherwise immune to spikes.

Taunt is there just to prevent the enemy from roaring or whirlwinding you away, but could easily be replaced by one of the attack moves or even Moonlight. If you do replace it, I'd suggest finding some way to Baton Pass an Ingrain to Revenankh.

Rest and Shed Skin were chosen only for the higher PP of Rest over Moonlight, and the fact that Toxic wrecks this set otherwise.

The purpose is not to kill the opponent through brute force, but rather by creating an unbreakable wall and having Toxic Spikes do their dirty work. Being that Revenankh is a Ghost, they will be unable to Rapid Spin them away. Make sure their poison types are dead before you start this though.

 

[latinoheat]

Also what about a fully defensive set.

Moonlight/Rest
Knock Off
Glare/Force Palm
Shadow punch

 

[1059860]

There's like nothing that can take Revenankh down. With its beefy stats as well as availability off Shadow Sneak, it can kill Gengar. Ice Punch takes its Flying counters such as Togekiss. Not to mention that it has Moonlight.

 

[Sunday]

Alright, I'll be doing the update now. NP can be included for the hell of it I guess, we'll see if it fails when Revenenkh is up in the server.

There's like nothing that can take Revenankh down. With its beefy stats as well as availability off Shadow Sneak, it can kill Gengar. Ice Punch takes its Flying counters such as Togekiss. Not to mention that it has Moonlight.

Obviously hasn't read the section entitled "counters" Leech Seed is easily the bane of Revenenkh existence.

 

[Urza]

a minor point...on the choice set, hammer arm is a very valid option. choice users switch in and out all the time, often after one or two turns. the speed drop is very minor in this case. also, i don't think a jolly nature would ever be worth it if you used mach punch. i'd recommend (with my limited experience) mach punch with adamant and hammer arm with jolly. seems counter intuitive, but it allows it to get some higher power moves without speed mattering too much.


this is as a result of reading the analysis workshop thread. i haven't read this thread all the way through, and i know that slightly maligns my post. i did skim it though, and saw nothing similar to the point i'm making.

 

[User 12783]

It should be noted that since Tyranitar has the ability to automatically start a Sandstorm, Moonlight would only give you about 25% of your max HP back. I am only mentioning this because Tyranitar has some major usage, and Hippowdon is uncommon (depending on your prespective, I for one haven't seen any on Shoddy for some reason...). I think this should be noted in "Opinion" or "Other Options", but should really be noted in the former than the latter. I know Tyranitar won't be staying in against a Revenankh, but it could start the Sandstorm early in the match if it is a starter.

 

[Dane]

Except on an overly defensive set (like that one I posted), you'll only be using only one healing move, which generally will tie in directly with your ability. If you're using moonlight, you'll be using Air Lock more than likely.

 

[zxn666]

wow, just noticed this thing has moonlight+air lock
Now that is an amazing combo, I really do hate it when Tyranitar comes and ruins my Cresselia's fun with sandstorm nerfing it's moonlight.

 

[Amelia]

After a Nasty Plos

Should be Plot.

Edit: I think Rest / Shed Skin should be the main on the Bulk Up set, and the Moonlight / Air Lock on the Life Orb. In a Bulk Up set, you want to stay for a long time, so you can hardly afford to get Statused. In the Life Orb set, you'll be switching in and out, so you can use Moonlight for some quick healing.

Also, a Defensive Set is needed, as it works wonders on a stall team to block rapid spin.

 

[Aint No Sunshine]

I'm actually looking forward to running the LO set on Shoddy. I might run Thunderpunch just for Gyara, but that kind of leaves me open to other counters.

 

[Fishin]

Going through and making a bunch of spelling/grammar/prose changes. I also did a bit of re-arrangement on counters and added a few minor things (like the fact that Gyara can taunt and a minor clarification on Sleep Talk with Shed Skin) and removed some (like the sentence "On the plus side it's Substitutes cannot be broken by Seismic Toss.").

[SET]
name: Bulk Up
move 1: Bulk Up
move 2: Shadow Punch / Shadow Sneak
move 3: Hammer Arm
move 4: Moonlight / Rest
item: Leftovers
ability: Air Lock / Shed Skin
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Revenankh can easily come in on its many resists and immunities, and this takes advantage of the switches it causes. Bulk Up makes it all but impregnable to physical attacks, as well as boosting its already decent attack stat to make it an even greater threat. It has two of the best STABs in the game, Fighting and Ghost, that hit everything for at least neutral, thus it is advised to stick to these moves for offense. Moonlight+Air Lock is the recommended healing method as the possible two turns spent sleeping with Rest+Shed Skin could allow an opponent to set up on you, forcing you to switch to a counter and lose your Bulk Ups in the process.

[SET]
name: Three Attacks / Life Orb
move 1: Hammer Arm
move 2: Shadow Punch / Shadow Sneak
move 3: Power Whip / Ice Punch
move 4: Rest / Moonlight
item: Life Orb
ability: Shed Skin / Air Lock
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
This set has advantages over the Bulk Up set in the extra move slot, giving much better coverage and making it more of a immediate threat. STAB again provides a reasonable form of offence, even without stat upping. The final move can either be Ice Punch to deal with Dragons or Power Whip to take down Bulky Grassers and Bulky Waters. Knock Off could also be an option to help this less durable Revenankh against Choice wielders, by crippling them of their much needed Item. Sleep Talk is not recommended in the third spot mainly thanks to Shed Skin, and as the extra moveslot is a critical advantage this set has over the Bulk Up set.

[SET]
name: Choice
move 1: Shadow Punch
move 2: Mach Punch / Brick Break
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Power Whip
item: Choice Band / Choice Scarf
ability: Shed Skin
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
A generic Choice set. Hammer Arm is no longer an option as its Speed drop is unwelcome, so the less powerful Brick Break is present. If you are running a Choice Band then Mach Punch becomes the preferable Fighting STAB, as its priority becomes a great asset on such a slow Pokemon. Ice Punch covers Dragons, and Power Whip deals with Bulky Waters and Bulky Grounds. The options on the left side should be paired with a Choice Band, and the rightmost options with a Scarf. The main advantage Revenankh has against other Choice Pokemon is that Shed Skin means status no longer permanently cripple it.

[SET]
name: Nasty Plot Sweeper
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Ice / Moonlight
item: Leftovers
nature: Modest
evs: 252 Hp / 252 SAtk / 6 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
After a Nasty Plot Revenankhs Special Attack can reach 502, not insignifigant in anyones books. D/Ps main Special wall, Blissey, can do little in retaliation except Thunder Wave (which Shed Skin could eventually heal) and is 2HKOed by Focus Blast after a Nasty Plot. This set gets the jump on many of Revenenkhs usual counters, who tend to favour Defense. It will not, however, help you against opponents who counter Revenankh by means of resisting its STAB attacks. You can use the fourth slot to cover your weaknesses with Hidden Power, or use Moonlight to heal. Be careful Revenankh does not turn into a weaker version of the Bulk Up set, as it utilizes almost exactly the same typed moves.

[Moonlight Vs. Rest]
On most of the tanking sets both Rest+Shed Skin and Moonlight+Air Lock are valid options. Both have their equal pros and cons. With Rest, Revenankh is protected from status and can heal 100% of it's HP instantly. It also has a 51% chance of waking up earlier than usual thanks to Shed Skin. Moonlight on the other hand has the benefit of not spending a possible two turns sitting there doing nothing, possibly giving the opponent an opportunity to set up on you. Air Lock also prevents Sandstorm of Hail from wearing you down.

[Other Options]
Sleep Talk can be used on any set that includes Rest, but with Shed Skin Revenankh has a 51% chance of waking up early so it won't see much use. Note that Shed Skin cures status at the end of a turn, however, so there is no chance of using Sleep Talk and wasting a turn due to waking up. Knock Off and Taunt are great utility moves which can be used to stop enemy tanks, stat-uppers and Choice users respectivly. Substitute and Focus Punch can be used if you want an alternate way to protect yourself from status as well as a stronger Fighting attack, but it saps Revanankh of the HP it so dearly relies on.

[EVs]
When using Bulk Up, SpD should be a priority. Careful, 252 Hp EVs and 136 Sdef EVs should provide you with adequate coverage. On any other defensive set more EVs should be invested into Def. Maximum HP should not be tampered with as it reaches optimal Leftovers recovery. 128 Atk EVs could be invested to 1HKO Blissey with Hammer Arm after a Bulk Up. Alternatively, Careful Revenankh needs 160 Spe EVs to outrun 4 Spe Blissey after a Hammer Arm, but Blissey isn't much of a threat to Ravenankh. 44 Speed EVs can be invested to outspeed 0 EV Skarmory, which can be useful to Taunt it before it can set up, but Revenankh can't do much in return without Bulk Up. Offensive sets should just max Speed and their attacking stat of choice.

[Opinion]
Revenankh is a very solid choice as a tank. Two excellent forms of healing, the best STABs in the game, and the ability to boost both its offense and it's defense at the same time with Bulk Up makes it a formidable opponent if not dealt with swiftly. If Revenankh is not carrying Bulk Up it is signifigantly less threatening in the long run, but short term could easily cripple most Pokemon with Knock Off or get an unexpected kill with Ice Punch or Power Whip. Choice sets have the ability to land a few surprise kills, but as with all Choice sets they require prediction to work effectivly.

[Counters]
Bulky Posion type Pokemon stand a good chance against Revenankh, resisting Fighting and most taking little from Shadow Punch. Vileplume, Venusaur and Crobat can all put Revenankh to sleep, and all but Crobat can sap his health with Leech Seed. Drapion can set up Swords Dance or Toxic Spikes and Whirlwind away any Bulk Ups, and Weezing can WoW any Moonlight versions. That being said if any of these get Taunted on the switch in the tables could turn very quickly. Celebi takes less then 50% from Shadow Punch even after Revenankh has used Bulk Up, and can threaten to 2HKO with Psychic or use Leech Seed to sap Revenankh of its health. Any bulky Flying type, expecially those Normal types who are immune to Shadow Punch like Togekiss or Staraptor can come in easily and threaten with a STAB Flying attack. Many other bulky Flying-types work effectively as well, including Gyarados (who often carries Taunt and has a higher base Speed than Revenankh as well) and Zapdos. More defensive Ground or Water types take little from anything Revenankh can throw at them except for Power Whip.
*Major WIP*

Now, as for more controversial changes...

IIRC, with max attack the Bulk Up set is capable of OHKOing both Gengar and Azelf with Shadow Sneak (as well as Medicham, Gallade, and Alakazam), which is worth mentioning in EV's.

In Counters, I'd mention Spiritomb - immune to Rev's stronger STAB and neutral to the weaker one, and Tomb has STAB Shadow Ball to hit Rev with. Jirachi is capable of using STAB Psychic attacks on either side and isn't weak to any of Rev's attacks either. Togekiss could probably use a slightly better mention as Revenankh is not only very weak against Togekiss offensively (CB Ice Punch might 2HKO, but I'm guessing that's about it) Air Slash completely destroys Rev on top of Flinching it.

Somewhere in Opinion, it should be mentioned well Rev walls Heracross really badly. 4x resistance/immunity to STAB and 2x resistance to second most used attack is pretty amazing, even Gliscor doesn't have that.

That's all I can think of for now.

 

[beej]

Revenankh has been doing wonders for me, but that's probably because a lot of people don't even know who he is. :(

I've been sweeping with this set:

Revenankh w/ Leftovers
252 HP/252 Attack/4 Defense
Adamant/Air Lock
- Taunt
- Bulk Up
- Hammer Arm
- Shadow Sneak

Taunt means that things slower than Rev can't status or even Leech Seed him, then you can just spam Bulk Up until you think you're unsafe. Sacrifices healing for better setup.

 

[Dane]

Taunt means that things slower than Rev can't status or even Leech Seed him, then you can just spam Bulk Up until you think you're unsafe. Sacrifices healing for better setup.

He has 65 base speed. Unless you catch the taunt on the switch, what's that slow that uses Leech Seed? (Actually asking, since the only leech seeders I've ever used were Sceptile and Celebi/Shaymin, all 100 speed or higher.)

 

[eric the espeon]

After a little testing I have found this set to be quite effective:

Revenankh@leftovers
Careful
252 HP/252 Defence/4 Sp. Defence
Shed Skin
Mean Look
Rest
Toxic
Spite

I have found this very effective against tanks and walls, it can stall out anything that cant 3KO it. ShedRest is used to stop other pokemon from doing much damage with status (mostly toxic). Without mean look this set would fail as your oponent could simply switch around until you run out of PP. Spite is what makes it better than the other ToxiTrapers, it lets you beat steel and poison types by forceing them to run out of PP.

This is probably not Revenankh's best set but its decent IMO and may deserve a mention in other options, something along the lines of:

Revenankh can use a Mean Look/Toxic/Rest/Spite set with some sucsess, however it will have trouble with stat uping oponents and powerful attackers.

 

[Sunday]

Going through and making a bunch of spelling/grammar/prose changes. I also did a bit of re-arrangement on counters and added a few minor things (like the fact that Gyara can taunt and a minor clarification on Sleep Talk with Shed Skin) and removed some (like the sentence "On the plus side it's Substitutes cannot be broken by Seismic Toss.").



Now, as for more controversial changes...

IIRC, with max attack the Bulk Up set is capable of OHKOing both Gengar and Azelf with Shadow Sneak (as well as Medicham, Gallade, and Alakazam), which is worth mentioning in EV's.

In Counters, I'd mention Spiritomb - immune to Rev's stronger STAB and neutral to the weaker one, and Tomb has STAB Shadow Ball to hit Rev with. Jirachi is capable of using STAB Psychic attacks on either side and isn't weak to any of Rev's attacks either. Togekiss could probably use a slightly better mention as Revenankh is not only very weak against Togekiss offensively (CB Ice Punch might 2HKO, but I'm guessing that's about it) Air Slash completely destroys Rev on top of Flinching it.

Somewhere in Opinion, it should be mentioned well Rev walls Heracross really badly. 4x resistance/immunity to STAB and 2x resistance to second most used attack is pretty amazing, even Gliscor doesn't have that.

That's all I can think of for now.

Is that before or after Bulk Up with those 1HKO calcs? Thanks for the rest of those sugestions / straight out edits.

Revenankh has been doing wonders for me, but that's probably because a lot of people don't even know who he is. :(

I've been sweeping with this set:

Revenankh w/ Leftovers
252 HP/252 Attack/4 Defense
Adamant/Air Lock
- Taunt
- Bulk Up
- Hammer Arm
- Shadow Sneak

Taunt means that things slower than Rev can't status or even Leech Seed him, then you can just spam Bulk Up until you think you're unsafe. Sacrifices healing for better setup.

Taunt is probably worth a bigger mention on the Bulk Up set.

After a little testing I have found this set to be quite effective:

Revenankh@leftovers
Careful
252 HP/252 Defence/4 Sp. Defence
Shed Skin
Mean Look
Rest
Toxic
Spite

I have found this very effective against tanks and walls, it can stall out anything that cant 3KO it. ShedRest is used to stop other pokemon from doing much damage with status (mostly toxic). Without mean look this set would fail as your oponent could simply switch around until you run out of PP. Spite is what makes it better than the other ToxiTrapers, it lets you beat steel and poison types by forceing them to run out of PP.

This is probably not Revenankh's best set but its decent IMO and may deserve a mention in other options, something along the lines of:

 

[Fishin]

Is that before or after Bulk Up with those 1HKO calcs? Thanks for the rest of those sugestions / straight out edits.

Actually, in retrospect, I overshot on Azelf. With Bulk Up and max attack/Adamant it takes roughly 86-101%, which is still useful (very good chance of a OHKO if SR is up). Gallade takes 96-113% (certain OHKO with SR), but all the others are definite OHKOs with one Bulk Up boost. My mistake on those calcs (dunno if I was factoring some item in at the time or what), sorry about that.

This set has advantages over the Bulk Up set in the extra move slot, giving much better coverage and making it more of a immediate threat. STAB again provides a reasonable form of offence,

After a Nasty Plot Revenankhs Special Attack can reach 502, not insignifigant in anyones books. D/Ps main Special wall, Blissey, can do little in retaliation except Thunder Wave (which Shed Skin could eventually heal) and is 2HKOed by Focus Blast after a Nasty Plot. This set gets the jump on many of Revenenkhs

Should be offense and Revenankh.

 

[Time Mage]

I'd add Yanmega to the counters section. It 4x resists fighting and is neutral to Ghost, so the most Revenankh can do to it once it has switched in is sneaking in a Shadow Sneak before being put to sleep or being hit with Air Slash.

 

[Sunday]

Duely noted.

Rest+Shed Skin is now mandatory on the Bulk Up set. Dam it just owns so much!

 

[Time Mage]

Duely noted.

Rest+Shed Skin is now mandatory on the Bulk Up set. Dam it just owns so much!

Don't forget to change the set comments, too. Right now the set favors Rest+Shed Skin and the comment favors Moonlight+Air Lock.

And I think it shuld get more SDef EVs on the Bulk Up set. I run 252, and maybe that's too much, but 136 isn't enough in my opinion. Bulk Up quickly solves the lower Def stat, this isn't Snorlax.