CAP 7 CAP 7 - Part 12 - Supporting Moves Discussion

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Magmortified

<b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Our Pokemon so far:

Phoxfinal.jpg


Beej said:
Name: Ultimate Scout
Description: A Pokemon that is very capable of forcing the opponent to reveal vital information about their team members and their moves using various techniques.
Click to expand...

Type: Steel / Ghost
Ability: Frisk / Limber
Stats: 80 HP / 103 Atk / 85 Def /55 SpA /80 SpD /110 Spe

An "Attacking Move" is a move that deals significant damage to an opponent. All other moves are considered "Non-Attacking Moves". As a general rule, any move that can be used under Taunt, is considered to be an Attacking Move. However, there are a few exceptional moves that deal a small amount of damage, but their primary battle purpose is based on a secondary move effect, and Are therefore considered Non-Attacking moves. For example, Rapid Spin and Knock Off are considered to be Non-Attacking Moves, even though they can be used under Taunt. The Topic Leader has sole discretion for interpreting which moves are considered Attacking or Non-Attacking Moves for a given pokemon.

All moves will be categorized as Competitive, Non-Competitive, or Required.
  • Competitive moves are moves that are viable for use in battle on a given pokemon. This categorization is applicable depending on the pokemon. Sometimes a move will be competitive on one pokemon and non-competitive for another.
  • Required moves are moves that must be included in the final movepool, and are generally not up for discussion. A list of commonly Required moves can be found in X-Act's movepool guide.
Move Discussion Posting Rules
  • The list of moves in this post will serve as the single point-of-reference for the current state of the discussion.
  • Post arguments for moves to be Allowed or Disallowed from the pokemon's final movepool. All posts should be presented with reasoning.
  • Posting lists of moves is strictly prohibited. Do not copy the TL's list, and then add "Yes/No" or a similarly worthless comment, beside each one. Posts that contain lists of moves will be deleted, even if the post contains additional reasoning and content.
  • The Topic Leader will update the list continuously throughout the discussion, using recent posts to determine changes to the move list. Moves may have a fluctuating status as the community debates for or against the move in response to changes in the OP.
  • Posts should be based on the current state of the list in the OP. It is the responsibility of each member to check the OP before making any post in the thread. Posts that demonstrate lack of familiarity with the current OP will be deleted.
  • The Topic Leader is the sole arbiter for determining "general community consensus". The TL may ignore arguments for or against certain moves, if they feel the argument is not presented with sufficient evidence or reasoning. Do not assume that the existence of a few dissenting posts will ensure that a move will be categorized as Controversial.
  • All moves that are considered Competitive for this pokemon are included in the list in the OP. Non-Competitive moves should not be discussed in this thread, unless you feel they are miscategorized and should be considered Competitive (see next rule).
  • If you disagree with the TL's categorization of a move as Competitive or Non-Competitive, you can post arguments in this thread, but reasoning must be supplied.
Supporting Moves List

Allowed:
-Perish Song
-Torment
-Whirlwind
-Charm
-Metal Sound
-Screech
-Fake Tears
-Featherdance
-Safeguard
-Taunt
-Yawn
-Haze
-Memento
-Glare
-Hypnosis
-Curse
-Confuse Ray
-Snatch
-Will-o-Wisp
-Trick
-Grudge
-Magic Coat
-Tickle
-Scary Face
-Heart Swap
-Moonlight
-Synthesis
-Me First
-Baton Pass

Controversial:
-Light Screen
-Reflect
-Psycho Shift
-Dark Void
-Lovely Kiss
-Transform

Pending:

Unallowed:
-Moves that increase stats by stages (i.e. Swords Dance).
-Moves that always recover 50% HP (i.e. Recover).
-Spore
 
First of all, I think Perish Song is basically the best way to theoretically force the opponent to switch, lest he die. ...IMO

I suppose Roar/Whirlwind could work too...
 
I would like to add Featherdance and Memento to allowed. For Featherdance, I believe it would be a great move to force switches with, lowering the opponent's attack. I also think that Memento would be a great move to force switches and keep up momentum once the scout's job is done by giving one of your Pokemon a free turn.
 
Gonna nominate the obvious Roar/Whirlwind. Cap7 will have an easier time looking at the opponent's team with Roar.


With Roar, you can roar away walls that would easily switch into this pokemon (I'm thinking skarmory) and also give insight to the team. It's not broken at all, and should be a solid move in this pokemon's movepool.
 
Billy Mills here for Featherdance.

It wipes the physical attackers right out, and it's stackable.
In other words, it forces all (slow) physical attackers out, before they do any real damage. Unlike WoW, it is stackable, both with itself and with status. I'm assuming this will get WoW also, but featherdance is the superior alternative.
 
I'd welcome any and all stat lowering moves though let's be wary of Screech used in conjunction with Pursuit.

Has the threat of Yawn been discussed in previous threads?

Also, this is pedantic, but couldn't we just call Featherdance, Charm?

edit: Looks like someone beat me to Yawn. Tickle then.
 
I'm strongly for Perish Song, but I'm against Mean Look.

If CAP7 got both, it would be a Perish-Trapper...not a scout. Plus, it doesn't have the defenses to pull of Perish-Trapping.

Perish Song is a great way to force switches and induce a little bit of panic, as Deck Knight mention with his war metaphors. Plus, I think it fits the ghost typing very well.

Featherdance would also be a nice way to screw over Physical sweepers.
 
Yeah, it doesn't have any feathers... Charm would be better.

I do not support Mean Look. It would imply Perish Trapping and would not make the scout's job ANY easier.
 
I'm gonna support Light Screen - When you get OHKO'd by a draco meteor from a Specsmence, did you really scout their team?
And i'm gonna nominate Reflect (has it been said yet, i don't think it has)
Same reason with safeguard, just ........... a physical move instead of special.


(thanks for pointing out my stupid mistake)
 
I'm gonna nominate Perish Song. It's an excellent way to force switches.
Also nominating Whirlwind/Roar, this will make CAP7's scouting job more easier. Nominating Screech/Metal Sound, another excellent way to forces switches and help with destroying their defenses. Yawn reasons stated by Tsukikage.
 
The_Dark_Sage said:
I'm gonna support Safeguard - When you get OHKO'd by a draco meteor from a Specsmence, did you really scout their team?
And i'm gonna nominate Reflect (has it been said yet, i don't think it has)
Same reason with safeguard, just ........... a physical move instead of special.
Click to expand...

I think you mean Light Screen, not Safeguard.
 
The_Dark_Sage said:
I'm gonna support Safeguard - When you get OHKO'd by a draco meteor from a Specsmence, did you really scout their team?
And i'm gonna nominate Reflect (has it been said yet, i don't think it has)
Same reason with safeguard, just ........... a physical move instead of special.
Click to expand...

Safeguard grants 5 turn status immunity. You're thinking of Light Screen.

I'm also adding Scary Face for consideration.

Sure, you might say "It's a bad Thunder Wave," but it also happens to screw any Scarfed Ground type who comes in (say, Flygon?) to EQ you back to Hades. It also affects pokemon afflicted by non-para statuses.

On that note, is anyone opposed to Glare?
 
Deck Knight said:
Safeguard grants 5 turn status immunity. You're thinking of Light Screen.

I'm also adding Scary Face for consideration.

Sure, you might say "It's a bad Thunder Wave," but it also happens to screw any Scarfed Ground type who comes in (say, Flygon?) to EQ you back to Hades. It also affects pokemon afflicted by non-para statuses.

On that note, is anyone opposed to Glare?
Click to expand...

Scary Face COULD work... if you can predict the Scarfed Ground, it'll help. I say it's worth considering (maybe not a Must Have move, but I'm considering it nontheless).

I also have no objections to Glare. Accuracy is a bit shaky, but we've used 75% accurate status moves before (Sleep Powder, anybody?). So yeah, that works.

I know it's been stated a few times, but I also feel this way: We CANNOT give this thing Mean Look if we allow it Perish Song. I think Perish Song, though, works great. It'll eventually cause a switch and Scoutmon can U-Turn his way out before the death clock strikes midnight (unless that's not the way it works... never U-Turned out of a Perish Song).
 
No Sword Dance and/or Bulk-Up. People were complaining about it turning into a powerful sweeper, well with a Sword Dance under it's wing it has the potent to sweep. Bulk Up is a lesser stat-up but still don't want it.

Majority of the support move suggested I'm okay with, though I have to make sure.
 
Hypnosis, Confuse Ray and WoW are all iconic ghost moves that could be of use.
i am definitely in support of Torment, just imagine the scouting abilities when you force an opponent to use multiple moves or when you force a switch from using it on a choiced poke.
 
Gothic Togekiss said:
No Sword Dance and/or Bulk-Up. People were complaining about it turning into a powerful sweeper, well with a Sword Dance under it's wing it has the potent to sweep. Bulk Up is a lesser stat-up but still don't want it.

Majority of the support move suggested I'm okay with, though I have to make sure.
Click to expand...
i agree with this, but would like to add No Howl as well. this is not a sweeper, so thus its attack stat is not the end-all-be-all.
 
I see Mag has put Perish Song on the "Allowed" list. Then I'm now completely against Mean Look. Because then we'll have made a Perish Trapper. Besides, Mean Look is kinda counter-intuitive of what the "Ultimate Scout" is trying to do. We need to find out everything possible, and we can't find out about the team in general when an opponent's Pokemon is so petrified it can't switch out.
 
I oppose Reflect/Light Screen as the long term support isn't what we're going for here.

If the argument is that by using Reflect, we can force a switch to see what kind of Special Attacker your opponent has in the wings, Charm/Wow offers that same function because the knowledge that CAPmon has that move would be enough to deter a Physical sweeper switch without the long term benefits of direct team support. Captivate offers the same deterrents on the Special side.
 
I'm also against Mean Look and other trapping moves like Block. Reasons stated by Darkie and Bpblu. It will go completely against it's job as "Ultimate Scout".
 
I want to nominate Guard Swap. Whats better for making a wall switch then giving it crap defenses?

Im against all trapping moves.
 
What about Transform? That was brought up in one of the earlier stages.And possibly Desitny Bond, but Im not sure how that would help a scout.Im also not liking the idea of a trapping move.
 
I would like this CAP to have Glare instead of T-wave. I know it has accuracy drop, but still, with the design, it goes perfect!

I also like the ideas of WoW, Taunt, Roar/Whirlwind and Metal Sound.

Someone has thought about giving it Trick?
Tricking a choice item into something you know the item is holding (screw you black sludge) causes switches.
 
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