Team "For the Ages - A Guide to Survival"

[Enygma]

I know, I know.... This team looks very familiar, or so I've been told as I posted this RMT on another forum.... This looks very similar to Obi Stall (or at least a Platinum revamp to it), but just take a look at the sets. This is TOTALLY different to Obi Stall. TOTALLY. My strategy is to try to keep my team alive for as long as possible, to keep it living "throughout the ages". With this strategy in mind, this team, as a whole, is able to heal themselves, thus being able to stall many other teams effectively, even opposing stall teams.

With me being banned on Marriland (for organizing trolls and spamming, lol) just in time for my retirement, I am pleased to announce that I am officially retiring, (maybe) for good this time. My last team and its RMT as well as an Uber RMT (found here) sparked me to reenter the world of Pokemon. I purposely did not ladder with this team on Shoddy, since I wanted to keep this kind of stall from spreading everywhere and thus ruining my fun (thus the same logic was behind me when I decided not to post battles with this team on YouTube). I just wanted to post this team to see if there were any other possible changes that could have been made by my stupid ass, and if any good rates are received, I may play with it again as a revamped edition when I want to fuck around with common YouTube pricks.

I tried to make this more entertaining by describing it somewhat similar to the movie "9". So without any further ado, I present to you Team "For the Ages - A Guide to Survival".

Over The Horizon

It is now 2012. The world has faced sure destruction, and everything is in ruins. The world has been destroyed by a single machine armed with only human intelligence. The human race had managed to put the machine into hibernation mode, but did do with their dying breath. The only remnants of the human race were 6 puppets, destined to destroy the machine once and for all.

Programming Their Functional Capabilities

Hippowdon AKA #1 @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
Nature: Impish (+Def, -SpA)
EV's: 204 HP / 216 Def / 88 SpD

~ Stealth Rock
~ Roar
~ Slack Off
~ Earthquake​

With the fall of the human race, one leader knew he had to be in charge. He knew that to keep the others alive, he would need to keep the others hidden and safe, but most importantly, ALIVE.

Hippowdon is a very reliable lead on Stall teams. It can basically do its job, which is to set up rocks, against many other leads. Although residual damage from Sandstorm may seem like a bad idea on Stall teams, it would benefit me more in the long run since my whole team is able to heal itself. This is such a great lead, since it is able to bash out most Focus Sash leads, as well as set up SR.
I hate Azelf leads, so I usually play it safe and send in Rotom-H to take the Explosion/SR and OHKO with Shadow Ball. And against Swampert, I just set up rocks since Ice Beam can only manage 30.0% - 35.7% and Surf deals 67.1% - 79.0%. And against Ape leads, I just switch out to Rotom-H to take the Close Combat/Grass Knot and proceed to Will-O-Wisp or I can just send in Tentacruel.
Defense EVs are for effectively dealing with Salamence, particularly DDMence. A Smogon standard DDMence Outrage will deal 46.6% - 55.1% to Hippowdon, assuming I have full health and someone has sacrificed themselves for Hippowdon to enter in on a free switch. This pretty much hurts like a bitch, but all I hope for is Hippowdon to get a free switch and phaze him out to let him take SR damage. But if Gyarados was able to get in somehow and Intimidate Salamence, his Outrage would deal 31.1% - 37.0% to Hippowdon, thus allowing Gyarados to get the fuck out, sacrifice someone, bring in Hippowdon, and have Outrage 3HKO Hippowdon.

Gyarados AKA #5 @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
Nature: Impish (+Def, -SpA)
EV's: 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 SpD

~ Waterfall
~ Roar
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk​

To survive, the 6 realized they needed someone to someone strong enough to brave the foes ahead. At first no one stepped up, but #5 soon stepped up onto the plate.

RestTalk Gyara.... Never expected that he would be viable on a stall team. Basically, my original team was practically weak to many offensive threats available, yet when someone from another forum helped me with the threats list for this team, he said I had many of them handled.... WTF...
This set helps against things like Scizor, Salamence, Lucario, Infernape, Heatran, and several other attackers.
RestTalk combo for absorbing status while Roar exists for phazing.

Rotom-H AKA #4 @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
EV's: 252 HP / 164 Def / 12 Spe / 80 SpD

~ Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt
~ Will-O-Wisp
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk​

To haunt... To spite.... To spook... 'Tis the role of #4. None shall dare venture near their sanctuary, for fear of this ninja... Implementing fear... A staple to survival...

On a stall team, it is essential to have a spin blocker, thus the reason for Rotom's existance on this team. Rotom-W can scare away the likes of Infernape and Gyarados, and anything else fearing a Will-O-Wisp to cut away their attack, thus allowing the entry hazards' damages to stack up and allowing me to easily KO them.
If I feel bored, I will choose Thunderbolt over Shadow Ball to take out Gyarados once and for all. But Shadow Ball is default because of my fear against Celebi, which no one on this team can effectively scare away. And Shadow Ball serves a check against opposing Rotom as well... Well... sorta...
The EV spread was suggested to me by vashta. Given the Speed EV's, it's just enough to outpace most Suicune, Tyranitars, and opposing Defensive Rotom-Appliances.

Forretress AKA #2 @ Shed Shell / Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
Nature: Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
EV's: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

~ Spikes
~ Payback
~ Rapid Spin
~ Toxic Spikes​

Shields... Fortress.... Shelter... She needs me...

Forretress takes care of my weakness to Refresh Latias as well HP Fire-less Gengar. With Forretress I also get a great rapid spinner that can actually harm and damage the spin blocker the opposing team has, for example Rotom-A and Gengar, it sets up spikes just like Skarmory can do, and can even set up Toxic Spikes to take care of Tyranitar.
Rest is a viable option over Toxic Spikes since my whole strategy is to keep myself alive, but that's why Blissey exists.

Blissey AKA #3 @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
EV's: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 SpD

~ Wish
~ Protect
~ Toxic
~ Seismic Toss​

Cleric... Scouting... Survival...

A staple to stall teams, and partner-in-crime to Forretress.
Toxic is to wound opposing stall pokes. Wish/Protect is for healing as well as scouting.
LO Outrage from Mild Mixmences does 59.80% - 70.45%, allowing me to Wish/Protect my HP back to normal. Max Attack CB Scizor U-Turn deals 48.58% - 57.24% damage, another perfect opportunity to Wish/Protect.
vashta pointed out that I was weak to LO Tran, so I decided to put back my original option of Seismic Toss on Blissey. But I would have trouble against the likes of Salamence with this. But I guess I can use Hippowdon to roar Salamence away and let him take SR damage.
Ice Beam is for putting Salamence into check. An Ice Beam coming from Blissey will do: 186 Atk vs 176 Def & 331 HP (95 Base Power): 292 - 344 (88.22% - 103.93%) against a Rash Min HP / Min SpD Salamence, an easy OHKO after Stealth Rock.
I put Aromatherapy as an inferior option over Protect to help Forretress and the other RestTalkers on my team if they ever need to wake up and rest some more.

Celebi AKA #6 @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
EV's: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe

~ Perish Song
~ Recover
~ Reflect
~ Grass Knot​

The chosen one... The one destined to finish the machine once and for all... Mankind's last and final hope in seeking revenge against the machine... Sacrifice for the greater good...

Celebi is a finisher on this team, when I need to sacrifice myself for the good of the team.
Perish Song is default here because it is the Smogon standard for stall, but Heal Bell works as a cleric to heal my team from Toxic Spikes if Tentacruel has fallen victim to death and can no longer rid the field of Toxic Spikes. Heal Bell is also viable for those RestTalkers on my team who need to be awake to counter when Celebi is dead.
Reflect is to effectively counter Gyarados. Without Reflect, Celebi takes 55.45% - 65.84% from an Adamant Life Orb'd Ice Fang Gyarados, whereas with Reflect, Celebi only takes 28.22% - 33.17%. Gyarados is 2HKO'ed back with Grass Knot, while factoring in SS and SR.

They Are Ready. Now What?

With all their functions fully programmed, the 6 puppets are now ready to face anything in its path. But what lies ahead is unknown. They must now lie and wait until the time comes to strike once more. They must wait. They must wait. Wait to die. Wait to live. Wait for a resolution that may never come......

Stall.... I never thought I would immerse myself into stall... But after trying it out for several months, I find myself loving stall, simply because you don't need luck to play stall; it's all about skill.

If I see that people took interest in this RMT, and gave it good rates, I may play with it again, if I ever do come back to Pokemon. But as for now, I want to retire with a good team on my shoulders. Comment. Rate. Critique.

Credits
I want to thank the following:

Global Trade Station Plus for the sprites.
MetalKid's Gaming Resources for the damage calculations.
Psypokes for their Nature chart.
Polelover44 and Astrith for providing a threats list for me.
Marriland for his Team Builder.
Jibaku for inspiring me to make a Stall Team.
Obi for giving me a guideline to follow for stall playing.
Me for making the banners.​

 

[Enygma]

Threats List

RED means if not dealt with properly it could sweep or wall my entire team.
ORANGE means it may require a sacrifice to deal with, but not generally.

Aerodactyl: Celebi can Grass Knot and destroy it, Rotom can Shadow Ball it or Will-o-wisp it and destroy it.

Azelf: My Blissey is able to take on any of Azelf's special attack moves. While Rotom can easily OHKO any Azelf set with Shadow Ball, along with Sandstorm and SR damage.

Blissey: My opponent using a Blissey awards me with ease of setting up Spikes or Stealth Rock and being able to Roar with Hippowdon. If I placed Heal Bell on Celebi, none of my Pokemon worry about status.

Breloom: LOL. RestTalk Rotom says hi. Gyarados can weaken it with Intimidate. Celebi can also take a Spore and Leech Seed and practically everything this (BAN ME PLEASE) throws at me.

Bronzong: Rotom can Will-O-Wisp it and destroy any harm from Bronzong. Easy set-up for Forretress and Toxic Spikes.

Celebi: Versions without HP Fire, meets Forretress. Shadow Ball from Rotom can counter Celebi. As well as being faster than any standard Celebi. While Blissey with Toxic can stop CM Celebis.

Cresselia: Toxic Blissey stops special attacking sweeper Cresselia with Moonlight. I can also Roar it out for residual damage to the rest of the opponent's team. While Shadow Ball Rotom can eventually destroy Cresselia. Or Perish Song from Celebi can be handy for end game.

Dragonite: Dragon Dancing Dragonite can be stopped by Hippowdon's Steath Rock and Roar. Rotom can cripple it with Will-O-Wisp. Celebi can also hand in Reflect to further stop it.

Dusknoir Blissey can Toxic it and stall destroy it. Rotom can Will-O-Wisp it and destroy it with Shadow Ball.

Electivire: Hippowdon can easily counter any type of Electivire.

Empoleon Blissey says hi.

Flygon: Hippowdon walls the shit out of Scarfgon. Forretress can use the Choiced Outrage to set up.

Forretress: Gotta admit I have trouble here... Hippowdon can take any type of attack it dishes out, but I have no surefire way to stop its set-up.

Gengar: lissey can take on any of its special attacks. I can use Blissey to Wish support a switch or weaken Gengar out with Sandstorm and Life Orb damage if its not carrying Leftovers.

Gliscor: Gyarados stops any of its attacks completely. Rotom's Shadow Ball can counter Gliscor. I can Toxic non-Taunt Gliscor with Blissey.

Gyarados: Rotom says hi. Celebi can counter Gyarados with ease. With Reflect and Stealth Rock up, Gyarados has no intention of switching and taking another Stealth Rock damage. While being 2HKO'd by Grass Knot after SR damage.

Heatran: Gyarados all the way baby!

Heracross: Hippowdon and Rotom can take care if it after scouting out the item it has been locked into.

Hippowdon: Celebi says hi.

Infernape: My best answer is Gyarados... If Gyarados is gone, I'm fucked. I can also try to weaken it with entry hazards, since this fucker is practically prone to all of them.

Jirachi: My Hippowdon and Rotom can both freely stop physical haxing Jirachi. Scarf versions that are stuck on any move besides Fire Punch allows Forretress to set up easily. Expert belt variants are a bitch to handle.

Jolteon: Blissey easily stops any of Jolteon's special attacking moves. While Hippowdon can take any of Jolteon's attacks easily and OHKO it with Earthquake.

Kingdra: Dragon Dance Kingdra is completely countered by Reflect Celebi, and never serves as a threat for me. While Rain Dnacing Kingdras with Ice Beam can be solved by Blissey. And Rain Dance sweep can be stopped by my Sandstorming Hippowdon.

Latias: Blissey can take on any of Latias' special attacking moves and Toxic it. Bringing Latias to its downfall. While if it carries Refresh, Forretress can set up all over its ass. Since Refresh Latias only can carry one move (Dragon Pulse).

Lucario: Probably one of the greatest threats of the team. But Lucario does not have a loop hole to set up on my stall team. As the only viable Pokemon Lucario can set up on is Blissey. While having Wish up I can easily switch to Hippowdon and take SD Close Combat and OHKO it. I have other Pokemon that can take on SD Lucario if it becomes too problematic. Such as Rotom given enough speed to outspeed Adamant Lucario and Will-o-wisp it. Or Celebi who can take a SD Crunch and Reflect. Gyarados can take care of it somewhat.

Machamp: With Reflect up from Celebi, Machamp is completely stopped from any harm rather than confusion hax. Celebi can then freely destory Machamp with Grass Knot (which does a lot of damage to standard Machamps). Payback does hurt if I don't have Reflect up, however...

Magnezone: Hippowdon can counter any of Magnezone's variants. Blissey can counter Magnezone (excluding Explosion). Rotom can even stop Magnezone with Shadow Ball itself (since Magnezone can't take special attacking moves very well and lack moves to counter Rotom).

Mamoswine: Forretress can take on any Mamoswines and set up on them. While Celebi can OHKO it with Grass Knot. While Rotom can Will-o-wisp it and destroy its physical properties.

Metagross: My Rotom can easily Will-O-Wisp Metagross and make any physical Metagross versions futile. While Forretress and Hipowdon can both set up on it. Even Celebi with Reflect up can destroy Metagross one-on-one.

Porygon-Z: Blissey says hi.

Rotom (all formes): Forretress says hi to all of them except Rotom-h. Defensive sets are outsped by my own Rotom, and Blissey can use the advantage to Wish and heal.

Salamence: Salamence is obviously a threat for any team due to its various sets that make it unpredictable. But after scouting the type of Salamence it is I can freely counter it. MixMence can be handled by my Blissey, as I can freely Protect for Outrage scout, weaken its Sp.Atk after taking Draco Meteor and switch to Hippowdon or Celebi and stop its Outrage. Hippowdon takes Outrage very well and can restore its health with Slack Off. While Celebi can Reflect and restore its health, along with access to switching to Blissey with Reflect up. While Dragon Dance Salamence can also be handled by great devising of prediction to weaken and counter it with SR and Sandstorm and Life Orb damage. While SpecsMence can be countered by Blissey. I also put calcs against Salamence in my Hippowdon analysis.

Scizor: My Hippowdon, Forrtress, and Rotom can counter Scizor with ease (barring if it is not locked onto pursuit, but if it is, then it's free set-up for Forretress). Forretress and Rotom can both take a CB U-turn well. Even Hippowdon at a good health. Hippowdon can take any hit and Roar or Earthquake. Rotom can burn it with Will-o-wisp.

Skarmory: I can disable any threats from it with Will-O-Wisp Rotom. Forretress spins all its hard work away and allows me to set up (hoping it doesn't blow me away).

Starmie: My Blissey can take on any of its special attacking moves. My Celebi can OHKO it with Grass Knot. Factoring in SR, Spikes,Sandstorm, Toxic Spikes, Rotom says hi.

Suicune: The biggest bitch of them all. Practically all of my teams are weak to this (BAN ME PLEASE). My Blissey can take on any of its special attacking moves. My Celebi can OHKO it with Grass Knot. My Rotom can OHKO it with Shadow Ball, along with SR and Sandstorm damage. Crocune is a bit different to handle, however. Celebi, assuming that I put in Perish Song over Heal Bell, assures that I don't get beat by it. My whole team is fucked mainly by Crocune.

Swampert: Celebi. 'Nuff said.

Tentacruel Blissey can take on any of its special attacks. Forretress has a spin battle with him. Nothing on my team hurts him a whole lot, but he's not much of a threat.

Togekiss: Togekiss' special attacking mvoes can be stopped by my Blissey and Toxic can easily destroy Togekiss from any sweep. Unless it does insane flinch hax with Air Slash (which requires a lot of luck).

Tyranitar: Hippowdon can counter almost any type of Tyranitar with Earthquake. While Forretress is able to set up Spikes on certain types of Tyranitars. Such as the popular CB Tyranitar.

Vaporeon: Blissey can take on any of its special attacking moves. While it can Toxic it and stall it out. Celebi can 3HKO it (not factoring in entry hazards) with Grass Knot, which deals 30.4% - 36.4% to Vaporeon.

Weavile: Forretress can counter any kind of Weaviles with ease.

Zapdos: Blissey can take any of Zapdos' special attacks and be able to Toxic it to death. SR and SS might help me take it down faster when Rotom comes into play.

 

[joshe]

Just so you know this is -exactly- like Arin's "Eternal Stall" team that got trolled and deleted because it was a spin-off to obi's stall team, so I hope you didn't steal it. Secondly, you get raped by so many things its not even funny, and I severely doubt you got 81-9 when you said you didn't even ladder with it. Whatever though, I'm here to help.

Ok, I really don't even know where to start. MixMence absolutely rapes you, and you can't do anything besides toxicing it with Blissey, any Infernape will easily 6-0 you, SD Luke totally destroys your team, as does Dragon Dance Salamence, any Tyranitar, Life Orb Heatran, Any Gengar, Latias, Rotom-a, and even Scizor will all take care of this team quick and easy. This team needs an overhaul to be honest, and I think I can help you by changing at most 3 pokemon. Firstly, get rid of Tentacruel. Its absolutely ass (lol no toxic spikes), and it harms the team more than it helps. With your current evs (wtf??) you run the risk of getting 2HKO'd by a MixApe's Close Combat, meaning it'll easily 6-0 once it gets through Tentacruel. Hippowdon gets easily OHKOed by Grass Knot (or a nasty plotted Fire Blast) while the rest of you team doesn't stand a chance with the combination of Flamethrower and Close Combat. Instead, use a Rest Talk Gyarados over it to help you out against Infernape and the mass of physical attackers that plague the very existence of your team. 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 SpD, Impish, the item Leftovers, and the moves Waterfall, Roar, Rest, and Sleep Talk will give you another status absorber, phazer, and an Intimidate to help you out against things like Scizor, Salamence, Lucario, and the aforementioned Infernape. It'll also help you against Heatran and some other special attackers.

You no longer have a Rapid Spinner now and Gengar, Rotom-a, Latias, Tyranitar, and Salamence still beat you. One pokemon can easily take care of your spinning and the weakness to Refresh Calm Mind Latias, and Gengar without HP-Fire. The Answer is Forretress. 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD/ Careful, the item Shed Shell, and the moves: Spikes, Payback, Rapid Spin and Rest or Toxic Spikes. With Paypack, you can do alot of damage to Gengar, Latias, and Rotom (watch out for fire moves). With Forretress you also get a great rapid spinner that can actually harm and damage the spin blocker the opposing team has, for example Rotom-a and Gengar, it sets up spikes just like Skarmory can do, and can even set up Toxic Spikes (which will greatly help against Tyranitar) should you use it.

You need Perish Song on this team to ensure you don't lose to Crocune or Calm Mind Latias with Refresh, and if you think you need heal bell, just put it over Reflect as Celebi is pretty bulky even without a reflect up. Next, I should think you can change Rotom's set to something like Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Will-o-Wisp, and Pain Split with the EV spread of 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe and Bold to ensure you get a little speed to get the first Pain Split alot of the time. You already have a Status absorber in Gyarados and healer in Celebi, and your Rotom set is very outdated. You get the luxury to use all 3 moves with this too, something that is very needed for Rotom-h to do its job.

Finally, use Ice Beam on Blissey over Seismic toss to greatly help your MixMence troubles. An Ice Beam coming from Blissey will do: 186 Atk vs 176 Def & 331 HP (95 Base Power): 292 - 344 (88.22% - 103.93%) against a Rash Min HP / Min SpD Salamence, an easy OHKO after Stealth Rock. You can also do some damage to Gengar which you previously couldn't do because of Gengar being immune to all over your moves thanks to that Ghost/Poison -typing. You have Gyarados for Heatran anyway.

I gave you lots of needed changes here and patched up plenty of weaknesses. Good Luck in the future.

 

[Enygma]

Dammit.... I thought i had this team first.... But with stall, teams are so limited these days that its hard for other stall teams not to look alike.

And i tried to follow obi's guide, being new to stall and all. But i did get 81-9, confessing to the fact that i played against noobs on marriland, since all the pros rarely hang in wifi battles anymore.

And i guess i forgot to put in that some ev spreads are fake, since i didnt want to have anyone use this team but me.

I appreciate your rate. Ape has never been a real trouble for me however, but you just opened my eyes to more valid threats. Seeing DDmence does scare me, as well as mixmence.

 

[polelover44]

Great team. Seeing as I'm mentioned in the credits, I've gotta rate it, no?
You say you have Infernape troubles. You don't, as long as Gyarados is alive. However, you're relying on Gyarados a bit too much. For this reason, I'm going to advise that you change Rotom to a Rotom-w, keeping the set. This allows you to scare ofd Infernape, allowing Spikes and SR damage to rack up.

There were a few moves that you were unclear on, here's my advice:
Forretress: TSpikes > Rest - Toxic Spikes are a must on any Stall Team.
Blissey: Protect > Aromatherapy - Wish/Protect is an amazing combo.
Celebi: Heal Bell > Perish Song - Cleric is needed.

Hope I helped!

 

[Enygma]

Great team. Seeing as I'm mentioned in the credits, I've gotta rate it, no?
You say you have Infernape troubles. You don't, as long as Gyarados is alive. However, you're relying on Gyarados a bit too much. For this reason, I'm going to advise that you change Rotom to a Rotom-w, keeping the set. This allows you to scare ofd Infernape, allowing Spikes and SR damage to rack up.

There were a few moves that you were unclear on, here's my advice:
Forretress: TSpikes > Rest - Toxic Spikes are a must on any Stall Team.
Blissey: Protect > Aromatherapy - Wish/Protect is an amazing combo.
Celebi: Heal Bell > Perish Song - Cleric is needed.

Hope I helped!

I like the rotom-w idea, since it scares away infernape, who is a bitch to this team... but i would lose out on scaring away CB Scizor who might choose to pursuit... but if its not stuck on pursuit, i can easily t-bolt to kingdom come... meh... i will try that out. and i guess i would have to deal with predicting around scizor. but if scizor is stuck on pursuit and kills rotom, at least it would give forretress free set-up time, no?

i agree with your recommendations on forretress and blissey, since the moves you rec'd are already on my team. but celebi is still iffy, and im not totally convinced. without perish song, i totally lose to crocune, who walls the shit out of my team. but i DO need a cleric, but that brings up the whole new subject of making blissey the cleric....

thanks for the rate POLE!

 

[vashta]

Hello.

I see your team has been rated already, but I still disagree with one or two current movesets on the team that were suggested/implemented. Now, joshe was right to note that your original team was weak to Life Orb Heatran, but I don't think he got the right approach when it came to dealing with it specifically because you still have hella problems with Taunt Life Orb Heatran in particular, probably the most common of Life Orb Heatrans. Now, joshe has said that Gyarados could handle Life Orb Heatran easily if Blissey was carrying Ice Beam, so you wouldn't have to worry -- this is not the truth. In reality, however, Gyarados is taking heavy damage from Life Orb Heatran which is doing 31.55% - 37.40% with Fire Blast. With Stealth Rock and sandstorm, that's a potential 2HKO on switch, which means Heatran is then left able to sweep the rest of your team with ease. But you may be thinking, what if I've gotten rid of Stealth Rock? Well, that's all well and good but this may not be the case if your opponent keeps setting up then counter switching into your Forretress who is forced out, meaning Blissey (who can only cushion attacks) and Gyarados (who is potentially 2HKOed). To put things straight, Gyarados can't be switching in continuously, especially into Heatran which threatens your own Rapid Spinner, too. In this case I thoroughly suggest using Seismic Toss over Ice Beam for the sake of dealing with Heatran and other Steel-type Pokémon that may trample over you -- heck, even Choice Specs Lucario (though uncommon) is gonna give you problems since you can't hit it hard) -- not only Steel-types, though, but generic Water-types who are paired with Scizor, such as Suicune, could prove troublesome. Believe me -- it's a common strategy.

You address Infernape as a real problem, but I guess it can be played around with a bit of smart thinking through Gyarados, Blissey and Rotom-h through forceful play, in which you where down opponents with the use of Toxic Spikes provided by Forretress, sandstorm, Spikes, and Stealth Rock.

As you've relieved Gyarados of the potential responsibility of checking several Pokémon in which it didn't need to, you still address Swords Dance Lucario as a threat, where, in reality, it isn't a massive deal and is more or less handled by Gyarados, Rotom-h, and Celebi depending on what set you're carrying; Gyarados only really fears Stone Edge Lucario, and can actually switch in freely on the Swords Dance and switch out to something like Hippowdon to take Stone Edge (if it has it (that's why you switch to scout)), then Rotom-h to take Close Combat, then back to Gyarados to take Crunch -- by then Lucario is back on neutral damage losing two Attack stages thanks to Intimidate -- because of this easy switching, you're able to scout what set your opponent is carrying, thus I don't see what is giving you so much problem in the first place, except for the fact that you'll be forced to Rest if you lack the removal of Stealth Rock from the field. Rotom-h can also take Ice Punching Lucario with Gyarados to ease the strain, and a normal defensive set will still be able to hit it with Will-O-Wisp, meaning you're not entirely risking a potential sweep, whereas you could be if your opponent is carrying a Jolly nature (though this maybe better for Gyarados if Stealth Rock is out of the way) because of your lacking of solid Defense. Finally, Celebi is able to take Stone Edging Lucario with some assistance from Hippowdon anyway, so again I don't see where the intial problem comes where your long-term aim, of preserving your Pokémon throughout a game (this applies for all stall teams) to maximize indirect damage, is endangered. With that all said, I believe that your current Rotom-W set doesn't need to be so speedy and that a normal defensive variant will suffice well enough. I would suggest the EV spread of 252 HP / 164 Def / 12 Spe / 80 SpD -- the Speed is just enough to outpace most Suicune, Tyranitars, and opposing Defensive Rotom-Appliances. Talking about specific appliances, I don't know how much of an issue it is of having your Rotom-W changed back to a Rotom-h; polelover says that Rotom-W scares away Infernape, but once you've switched in on its attack and it notices that you carry Leftovers, why would it hesistate to attack you attack with its STAB Life Orb Fire Blast (or whatever)? To be honest, Rotom-h would be more threatening thanks to the fact that it helps you scare away Swords Dance Scizor which laughs at your team, and Gyarados, especially bulky Roost variants.

About your moves that you're unsure about: with Celebi, Perish Song is probably your best and most reliable bet when it comes to defeating the likes of Calm Mind Refresh Latias and Calm Mind Suicune, just to name a few, because you seem to have a lot of problems with dealing with general late-game stat-up sweepers in general anyway -- a common foe to most generic stall teams in this metagame at the moment, too. With Blissey, Protect may be optional for the purpose of stalling out (with Wish) mixed opponents, such as Salamence, who aren't OHKOed immediately by Seismic Toss -- it's also a very useful scouting tool; bare in mind, however, that Hippowdon and Forretress are then left prone to status ailments, but is the only Pokémon directly affected throughout the duration of the game, whereas Rotom-A and Gyarados can Rest-off status, and Blissey and Celebi have Natural Cure which relinquishes their bond with status.

Finally, a random note that I forgot to mention earlier: you could consider giving Celebi Hidden Power Fire over Reflect if you have more doubts about making Rotom-A defensive again.. just so you have some sort of way for checking Scizor; I do not 100% endorse this, though, as it could leave you with problems against other prominent physical attackers such as the aforementioned Swords Dance Lucario and Dragon Dance Salamence.

There was something else that I wanted to say but I forgot. I'll probably post back here if I remember by editing this post or just making another. Good luck with the team.

 

[Enygma]

@ vashta

Thanks for the rate, mate. I gotta admit, it feels nice to have decent people rate teams once in a while, since Marriland raters suck :P

I put back Seismic Toss as an option again for Blissey, but I am concerned with my Salamence weakness pointed out by joshe. I already have Gyarados to put LO Tran in check, while hoping Forretress has done his job and cleared the field. But it is always nice to have Blissey be somewhat useful as well, but I still have fears from DDMence...

I didn't change Rotom's set like you suggested simply because I want to outrun Adamant Lucario and Will-O-Wisp his ass and proceed to set up Reflect from Celebi. I also like the fact that I can outrun opposing RestTalk Rotom-a and bash their head against the wall with Shadow Ball.

 

[vashta]

I put back Seismic Toss as an option again for Blissey, but I am concerned with my Salamence weakness pointed out by joshe. I already have Gyarados to put LO Tran in check, while hoping Forretress has done his job and cleared the field. But it is always nice to have Blissey be somewhat useful as well, but I still have fears from DDMence...

I don't know how much of a problem Dragon Dance Salamence is to you, to be honest, as like you said, you scout what variant it is depending on what it switches-in on. Hippowdon+Blissey easily manhandle Mixed Salamence as it is, and Dragon Dance Salamence even moreso by Hippowdon who can take an Outrage and pHaze it away, though it must be wary switching into it indeed. Besides, Seismic Toss on Blissey is still doing a big amount to Salamence with Life Orb and sandstorm in play, and, for bulkier variants, Toxic will ware them down. If anything, using more Defense (I dunno, maybe 216 Def (?)) may just give you more insurance with Hippowdon against Salamence -- I believe just a couple of smart moves will deal with it easily -- it can't switch-in and set-up on most Pokémon without losing a chunk of its health anyway. The only exception is probably Forretress.

I didn't change Rotom's set like you suggested simply because I want to outrun Adamant Lucario and Will-O-Wisp his ass and proceed to set up Reflect from Celebi. I also like the fact that I can outrun opposing RestTalk Rotom-a and bash their head against the wall with Shadow Ball.

I think you're taking the long-winded approach to dealing with Lucario as Crunch variants are easily handled by Gyarados who can Intimidate and pHaze them away or hit them with Waterfall -- most Adamant Lucario are Crunch-users, bare in mind -- I wouldn't stress with it too much unless you're always losing Gyarados before Lucario switches-in. Stone Edge and Ice Punch users are easily dealt with by Defensive Celebi and Rotom-h, respectively, also, and those Lucario are usually seen with Jolly natures.

Opposing Rotom-a (Defensive) usually use 8 Speed nowadays because of Life Orb Gyarados, so running that much Speed for that reason seems very unnecessary. Shadow Ball on Rotom-h over Thunderbolt is just going to mean that Scizor can hit remove you from play even if you manage to hit it with Will-O-Wisp, as Pursuit is still going to take a chunk out of your health if you switch -- then again I guess you can attempt to stall it out. I'm not 100% certain about how to go about Shadow Ball vs Thunderbolt... heh.

 

[Enygma]

Thanks for helping me out again, vashta.

If anything, using more Defense (I dunno, maybe 216 Def (?)) may just give you more insurance with Hippowdon against Salamence

I did as you suggested; taking several HP EVs so I can shove some into Def to make it 216. i did the calcs as well, and i LOVED, absolutely LOVED the results. and i totally forgot about Gyarados, who can weaken salamence's attack and make his outrage a 3hko to hippowdon. all of a sudden, salamence isnt so scary anymore, but by seeing him, usually someone has to die....

I think you're taking the long-winded approach to dealing with Lucario as Crunch variants are easily handled by Gyarados who can Intimidate and pHaze them away or hit them with Waterfall -- most Adamant Lucario are Crunch-users, bare in mind -- I wouldn't stress with it too much unless you're always losing Gyarados before Lucario switches-in. Stone Edge and Ice Punch users are easily dealt with by Defensive Celebi and Rotom-h, respectively, also, and those Lucario are usually seen with Jolly natures.

Opposing Rotom-a (Defensive) usually use 8 Speed nowadays because of Life Orb Gyarados, so running that much Speed for that reason seems very unnecessary. Shadow Ball on Rotom-h over Thunderbolt is just going to mean that Scizor can hit remove you from play even if you manage to hit it with Will-O-Wisp, as Pursuit is still going to take a chunk out of your health if you switch -- then again I guess you can attempt to stall it out. I'm not 100% certain about how to go about Shadow Ball vs Thunderbolt... heh.

yes. i realized i was. i changed it my rotom set to make it more defensive. i gave it a try. and i liked it a bit. i still outsped rotom RestTalkers, which i loved, but i found that i can no longer outspeed some celebi.... :(

but overall, i liked it. pfft. i rarely see celebis anyway.

Again. Thanks for your help.

 

[george182]

This team is perfect for a sub calm mind Jirachi, although thsi takes you away from full stall, it is capable of settign up on blissey and taking it out, it also greatly benifits from toxic spikes and can take advanatge of sanstorm aswell. I personanly think a stallish sweeper like Jirachi is perfect, ater stalling the oponents team to death, somethign like Jirachi can really help late game, and can flahs cannon an anoying tyranitar.

It would have to come in over celebi, and then rotom would have to change to the trick scarf rotom. Your celebi appears to be dead weight and trick scarf rotom handles gyrados, starmie, most threats celebi was handlign, it is also faster than lucario, and can trick a scarf onto crocune, who is then handled by blissey, or set up on by Jirachi.

However if you want to stick with bulk a crocune of your own could be used, which also benifits greatly form toxic spikes, but crocune is unreliabel at taking out blissey, while sub calm mind Jirachi can take blissey on and has better coverage with 2 attacks. If you really want heal bell, then wack aromatheropy/heal bell on Blissey, but I think wish will benifit your team more.

I hope you found my rate useful, your team doesn't need Jirachi, I just noticed that Jirachi really likes your team and trick scarf rotom can cripple antistall players like tyranitar and suicune, while it can be healed up realiably with wish from blissey as its imune to fighting and relatively bulky. The metagame I think requires a little touch away form pure stall for it to be effective against the common semi bulky teams now the top of the usesage board contains bulky pokemon liek scizor, salamance, gyrados and heatran.

 

[Enygma]

This team is perfect for a sub calm mind Jirachi, although thsi takes you away from full stall, it is capable of settign up on blissey and taking it out, it also greatly benifits from toxic spikes and can take advanatge of sanstorm aswell. I personanly think a stallish sweeper like Jirachi is perfect, ater stalling the oponents team to death, somethign like Jirachi can really help late game, and can flahs cannon an anoying tyranitar.

It would have to come in over celebi, and then rotom would have to change to the trick scarf rotom. Your celebi appears to be dead weight and trick scarf rotom handles gyrados, starmie, most threats celebi was handlign, it is also faster than lucario, and can trick a scarf onto crocune, who is then handled by blissey, or set up on by Jirachi.

However if you want to stick with bulk a crocune of your own could be used, which also benifits greatly form toxic spikes, but crocune is unreliabel at taking out blissey, while sub calm mind Jirachi can take blissey on and has better coverage with 2 attacks. If you really want heal bell, then wack aromatheropy/heal bell on Blissey, but I think wish will benifit your team more.

I hope you found my rate useful, your team doesn't need Jirachi, I just noticed that Jirachi really likes your team and trick scarf rotom can cripple antistall players like tyranitar and suicune, while it can be healed up realiably with wish from blissey as its imune to fighting and relatively bulky. The metagame I think requires a little touch away form pure stall for it to be effective against the common semi bulky teams now the top of the usesage board contains bulky pokemon liek scizor, salamance, gyrados and heatran.

thanks for your recommendations, but i dont want to give my team an overhaul just to change up that battle style, to be honest. i want to keep playing stall, thus the reason i didnt put in some cool sweeper, like the aforementioned jirachi or crocune.

but seeing the name crocune DOES bring up stall... somewhat... thanks anyway.