np: UU - Can't Touch This

[ToF]

I've lost around 5-6 times this entire test, and not one stupid 'heavy offensive team' has beaten me (minus Heysup who masterfully double switched on me quite often and put me into tight spots, with a heavy team advantage that I cannot recover from anyway). Dual screen teams are easy as shit for stall to break down, so I don't know how that makes it a 'dominating team type'.

As for the 'random threats' that everyone seems to like to cite, I don't exactly know what to say to that regarding stall teams personally. Offensive teams shouldn't have a problem with the occasional 'random Pokemon' because these HO teams are designed to damage as much shit as possible anyway. In terms of a stall standpoint, if you prepare for say the most dominating physical sweeper in the metagame at this point in time, you should have checks to other similar Pokemon that are less widely used. Just my two cents on it; it is of course impossible to cover everything, but that's where skill separates the good stall players from the best.

I'd say 3-4 of my losses were to NP Porygon-Z, who just absolutely wrecks stall. I can't even add anything to cover it from a defensive perspective, and I refuse to use something like Dugtrio just to revenge-kill, because I see it as a wasted slot. Everyone hyped Cresselia so much that no one realizes Porygon-Z is such a ridiculous powerhouse. Can we please get rid of it?

 

[Seraphic]

Chansey? Can't that stop NP PZ?

I tried using it, but priority stops him like a brick wall. It's probably because of him that I see so many hitmontop running around :( He does ravage stall quite easily, however.

Sharpedo anti lead still rapes, except against scarf uxie. It beats pretty much all of its lead sets but that one, which it loses hard to. Oh well.

 

[Heysup]

I've lost around 5-6 times this entire test, and not one stupid 'heavy offensive team' has beaten me (minus Heysup who masterfully double switched on me quite often and put me into tight spots, with a heavy team advantage that I cannot recover from anyway). Dual screen teams are easy as shit for stall to break down, so I don't know how that makes it a 'dominating team type'.

I actually don't believe that there is a dominating team-type at all (which is why I like the metagame), I just prefer using offense because I find it easier to "cover" everything via killing it rather than countering it etc.

ps - I actually find it quite odd that you manage to hold off (you even beat me once or twice iirc) for so long. Theoretically I should be able to just sweep with Absol....but I can never manage it. I guess that's what makes a good stall player.

(Sort of like EUM used to hold off Blaziken miraculously, but he had Crobat...)

I'd say 3-4 of my losses were to NP Porygon-Z, who just absolutely wrecks stall. I can't even add anything to cover it from a defensive perspective, and I refuse to use something like Dugtrio just to revenge-kill, because I see it as a wasted slot. Everyone hyped Cresselia so much that no one realizes Porygon-Z is such a ridiculous powerhouse. Can we please get rid of it?

This is where we will probably see something similar to the "Gallade" argument, where certain team types are wrecked by Porygonz, and certain ones wreck Porygonz. Though, Scarf Porygonz is quite threatening to offense (more so than Scarf Gallade was, much more). If we are consistent, then I don't see why Porygonz should at least be voted on.

Stall shouldn't be forced to use Dugtrio to beat Porygonz, if this is the case than I think I'll probably take another look at Porygonz and reconsider my position.

 

[Nas]

I used Spiritomb with Shadow Ball/HP Fighting/Pain Split/Sucker Punch to counter Porygon-Z. (and other things) That, along with Steelix and Chansey was usually enough to hold it off, but there was still the odd time I faced a bulky NP Porygon-Z with Recover that completely fucked me over.

To be honest though, I'm glad we have Porygon-Z, it keeps Stall at bay while being a fun poke to play around with.

 

[Force Majeure]

My problem with Pory-Z is that all of the pokes I use to check it each check a different set, and it is sometimes difficult to immediately ascertain which set it is running. I usually sac my lead Uxie (who is by that point done harassing people with Yawn) to figure out what it is. If worst comes to worst, I have two priority users.

 

[Diesel]

As I've posted before, sand really has no trouble with the current OU dropdowns and really the suspects in general.

Cresselia: Moonlight only heals 25%, spD boosts for Rock types
Porygonz: SpD boosts for Rock types + resist Tri-Attack
Moltres: SpD boosts, resist Fire, hates ss + LO damage and SR
Froslass: No Snow Cloak, breaks sashes if they have them, SpD boosts
Raikou: SpD boosts, sub + ss or LO + ss
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Venusaur: SD can be annoying, but hippo sponges sleep well :P SpD boosts could help, Synthesis only gains 25% health

Also quite obvious is the the special trend of the suspects - All of them generally use special-attacking movesets.

I'm glad someone posted this, because I am loving sand in this meta, much more so than in the last. I haven't tried Regirock, but Cradily (my fave) makes a lot of the above pokemon just look silly. I'm running Curse+ResTalk atm and sweeping with it most games. Rest/CM/Psychic/Signal Beam Cresselia can also be somewhat deadly, and doesn't have to take away much of its walling ability to boot. I've always liked Cacturne as well, and have had a lot of success with it both as a check to fast sweepers (Sucker Punch) and as a Spiker.

 

[Sir Azelf]

I'd say 3-4 of my losses were to NP Porygon-Z, who just absolutely wrecks stall. I can't even add anything to cover it from a defensive perspective, and I refuse to use something like Dugtrio just to revenge-kill, because I see it as a wasted slot. Everyone hyped Cresselia so much that no one realizes Porygon-Z is such a ridiculous powerhouse. Can we please get rid of it?

^This to the extent ive had to run Toxic Spikes and a Scarfer and/or Mach Punch just to keep the damn thing in check on stall and we all know how meh T-Spikes are in UU. :/

I agree wholeheartedly though P-Z is way too powerful and id love to see it go. You just have to go out of your way (with any play style, as heysup pointed out that Scarf P-Z really hurts offense whilst NP hurts stall) far too much to beat it.

Im not saying there arent ways to beat it but its still so damn powerful and P-Z actually beats most of the things that people say beats it.

Chansey? Can't that stop NP PZ?

Chansey kinda isnt really a solid way to stop NP P-Z. If P-Z NP's as Chansey switches in and then uses sub on your status you're looking at a +4 P-Z and if you S-Toss then P-Z gets a NP in either way, that and ive seen a few Lum-Z's too, Chansey probably isnt going to win. Basically one wrong prediction with Chansey and more than likely your whole stall team goes down. ~_~

 

[Banedon]

Modest Life Orb Fire Blast 2HKO's them both.

Only if they switch into a Fire Blast (as opposed to Air Slash / HP Grass), Fire Blast doesn't miss and they aren't SpD EV'ed ...

 

[ToF]

I used Spiritomb with Shadow Ball/HP Fighting/Pain Split/Sucker Punch to counter Porygon-Z. (and other things) That, along with Steelix and Chansey was usually enough to hold it off, but there was still the odd time I faced a bulky NP Porygon-Z with Recover that completely fucked me over.

To be honest though, I'm glad we have Porygon-Z, it keeps Stall at bay while being a fun poke to play around with.

Exactly why Porygon-Z should be BL. No one uses the bulky Recover variant which is the bigger threat to the metagame anyway. Spiritomb manages like only 35% with HP Fighting, and it can simply Recover / Nasty Plot till its at +6 and sweep. Recover is why PZ is truly BL, the attacking options and stats it have just reinforce my take on its position.

 

[Olliert]

Agreeing with ToF that bulky porygon-Z is like broken as hell. On another note, I've been playing a semi-stall team with a taunt SD Drapion to beat full stall. It's worked really well so far often tauntingthe entire stall team and SDing up before sweeping once donphan or rhyperior has gone. Timid Milotic is a bitch.

 

[TONY MONTANA]

You guys talking about "bulky Porygon-z". Can I ask what Evs do you guys use for bulky Pory-Z?

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Chansey kinda isnt really a solid way to stop NP P-Z. If P-Z NP's as Chansey switches in and then uses sub on your status you're looking at a +4 P-Z and if you S-Toss then P-Z gets a NP in either way, that and ive seen a few Lum-Z's too, Chansey probably isnt going to win. Basically one wrong prediction with Chansey and more than likely your whole stall team goes down. ~_~

I've found the Chansey usually stops Porygon-Z fine. Not always, but most of the time. Perhaps I nearly always predict correctly, but Chansey usually does fine for me, and other people have said the same.

Although, with Chansey being the 2nd most resistant Pokemon to special moes in the entire game, let alone UU, and sometimes not being able to outstall a special sweeper is a bit worrying! I mean, if Chansey and Spiritomb can't do it, who else can? Spiritomb has only 50 HP but a good 108 Special Defense, and Chansey has a whopping 250 and 105 Special Defense. It's not like they're bad or anything.

 

[franky]

You guys talking about "bulky Porygon-z". Can I ask what Evs do you guys use for bulky Pory-Z?

I would imagine outrunning base 80s and dumping the surplus to HP. Also, I predicted Pz being stalls biggest nightmare a while back. The fact that there is no safe defensive check to it makes it diffficult to stop. If you lack Thunder Wave on Chansey or Registeel then your going to have a hard time stopping it.

 

[M BLADE]

Hmm, i used bulky Porygon Z in OU for a little while back ago... but with Substitute and Nasty Plot and Recover, with only Tri Attack to... attack. Just for kicks.

I believe Regice can also stop Porygon Z. With Psych up it can even get a boost or two on its special attack. Regice hates Stealth Rock though.

Arcanines nowadays needs all speed it can get? Because of Porygon Z and the like?
Does LO Flare Blitz OHKO those bulky Porygon Z?

Questions aside:


Right now, Scarf Primeape is the MVP(whatever that is) of my team, revenging a good portion of pokes while being able to U-Turn the hell out(Cresselia?) and giving time to other poke to set up(most of the time, Entei).

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

Modest Life Orb Fire Blast 2HKO's them both.

Well Cresselia can survive:

383 SpA LO Moltres Fire Blast vs. 444 HP / 394 SpD Cresselia: 36.49 - 43.24%

That’s never a 2HKO even with Stealth Rock, the only hazard that affects Cresselia. But of course we must not forget what truly sets Moltres apart offensively from all the other powerful special Fire-type Pokemon: STAB Air Slash, the strongest unboosted one outside of Ubers. Enough said really.

I've found the Chansey usually stops Porygon-Z fine. Not always, but most of the time. Perhaps I nearly always predict correctly, but Chansey usually does fine for me, and other people have said the same.

Although, with Chansey being the 2nd most resistant Pokemon to special moes in the entire game, let alone UU, and sometimes not being able to outstall a special sweeper is a bit worrying! I mean, if Chansey and Spiritomb can't do it, who else can? Spiritomb has only 50 HP but a good 108 Special Defense, and Chansey has a whopping 250 and 105 Special Defense. It's not like they're bad or anything.

Chansey can take on Porygon-Z reasonably well. With Light Screen. But that’s quite a restrictive option on Chansey, particularly if you plan on using her as a Wish passer, which a lot of stall teams do. But once again, even with such a precaution, you are still at the mercy of Tri Attack hax.

Right now, Scarf Primeape is the MVP(whatever that is) of my team

Most Volatile Primate? Just kidding! I’m pretty sure it means ‘Most Valuable Pokemon’.

 

[Vrolok]

Most Volatile Primate? Just kidding! I’m pretty sure it means ‘Most Valuable Pokemon’.

I lol'ed. I think Honch's Insomnia is deeply missed, since every Venusaur spams Sleep Powder first time their out. Primape may be the physical hard hitter UU needs.

 

[Rolf]

I'm glad someone posted this, because I am loving sand in this meta, much more so than in the last. I haven't tried Regirock, but Cradily (my fave) makes a lot of the above pokemon just look silly. I'm running Curse+ResTalk atm and sweeping with it most games. Rest/CM/Psychic/Signal Beam Cresselia can also be somewhat deadly, and doesn't have to take away much of its walling ability to boot. I've always liked Cacturne as well, and have had a lot of success with it both as a check to fast sweepers (Sucker Punch) and as a Spiker.

I haven't tried Regirock either, but Cradily is absolutely a monster atm. A simple RestTalker with Curse and Seed Bomb wrecks lots of teams atm. Rest Cresselia is eh though, and that moveset leaves it open to the now-very-specially-bulky Rhyperior. I don't like Cacturne mainly because I don't like relying on Sand Veil much, but I'm sure its STAB Sucker Punch can help a lot.
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On another note, DD Feraligatr has been really reliable. If you run just enough speed to outspeed base 120s (or 125s if Swellow is a concern) after a DD, you have quite a lot of EVs leftover to put into HP. Adding leftovers over LO also might sound quirky, but the extra bulk it adds is amazing. I personally run a set with little attack investment but lots of HP and enough speed to outrun 120s (Sceptile) after a DD. I usually don't have a problem getting 2 DDs up in a match and sweeping with a combination of Return and Waterfall. I run Sub to protect from status and it can be really handy for subbing into Torrent range to boost Waterfall to enough power to KO.
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Finally, my thoughts on Porygonz. I personally have had no trouble with him (but then again the SpD on Cradily allows it to take a NP HP Fighting and have it 3HKO, similar situation with Rhyperior) although I can see stall getting wrecked by bulkier sets. (like the one I posted in the creative moveset thread) Personally I don't think stall should have a problem with most offensive ones though, as it gets worn out quickly with Spikes, SR, Roar, TSpikes, LO, Sub, etc.

 

[Smurf.]

Bulky PorygonZ under screens is as bad, if not worse than cress. Has the potential to 6-0 many teams, and realises this potential more often than not.

 

[Thund91]

This is why I believe Encore is such a valuable move in this metagame, even for stall. The options for stall are somewhat limited though. Clefable is the only one who's widely used. But a fast encorer is definitely invaluable for a stall team. I highly suggest people give Jumpluff a try. Fast Encore + Sleep Powder + Leech Seed causes tons of switches and if you have hazards up it can be hell for your opponent. Not to mention Jumpluff completely fucks over Power Whip/Earthquake SD Venusaur. It just sucks it doesn't outspeed Raikou. :(

 

[franky]

Yeah, like I said before Encore is the best move in the game. I've used a team full of Encore users with Spikes support to enforce switches and it actually annoys the opponent so much that they leave the game.

People should start using defensive Altaria more. Its one of my stall staples in this metagame and it basically screws with Cresselia no matter what. Late-game, mid-game, or even last man standing. Perish Song will always beat Cresselia. You add Altaria's bulk + Roost, you can easily heal off boosted Psychics. Unlike some of its checks, its not a one trick pony since it can wall Venusaur and Blaziken pretty well. I recommend Perish Song Altaria.

 

[Rolf]

Altaria...basically screws with Cresselia no matter what.

No one runs Ice Beam on Cress? I thought it was standard.

 

[Smurf.]

No one runs Ice Beam on Cress? I thought it was standard.

With the threat of absol its got to be hp fighting

 

[Bluewind]

With the threat of absol its got to be hp fighting

Actually I've been using Scyther and I'm constantly seeing its health being just depleted by the end of the turn due to Ice Beam, so yeah, it's still fairly common. If that's just bad luck, I guess we'll have to wait until the end of the month to make sure, and even though HP Fighting/Signal Beam is superior (IMHO), many are still running IB on CM sets.

 

[M BLADE]

Instead of Altaria i'm using Articuno. Granted, it takes 50% from SR and it has a Ice typing(Dragon is MUCH better than Ice defensively.. by, say, much lol).

It can't wall Blaziken, but it can wall Venusaur... it's bulkier, faster and it's STAB Ice Beam can actually hurt someone, unlike Altaria's weak Dragon Pulses.Also it doesn't really mind attacking versions of Milotic.
It can't use Perish Song, but it uses Toxic to get rid of Cresselia.

 

[IK.]

Well Cresselia can survive:

383 SpA LO Moltres Fire Blast vs. 444 HP / 394 SpD Cresselia: 36.49 - 43.24%

That’s never a 2HKO even with Stealth Rock, the only hazard that affects Cresselia. But of course we must not forget what truly sets Moltres apart offensively from all the other powerful special Fire-type Pokemon: STAB Air Slash, the strongest unboosted one outside of Ubers. Enough said really.

Well my calcs were with no SDef investment, which does 48.9% - 57.7%, always a 2HKO if it switches in. I've seen few use max/max Careful Cress, but yeah, if it does it'll survive.