Hipmonlee
Have a nice day
The fact that he saves the life of his family?And this justifies it how?
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Have a nice day.
The fact that he saves the life of his family?And this justifies it how?
There is no reason they should be legalized. Somehow the work got done before illegals worked on the farms. And they are coming illegally anyway i a pretty lame way to justify legalization. I fail to see how human rights abuse plays into legalization anyway? By deportation of illegals? Or are you saying we are saving them from mexico. And compassion is hardly a great rationalization either.Other than basic human compassion, Colbert points out several reasons:
- We need people to do the work.
- They're coming illegally anyway, so we might as well give them legal protection to prevent massive scale human rights abuses
Regardless, no one's saying "fling them open"...
About this legal way, how long is the waiting list from Mexico? 99 years. Yup.
I won't break it down much point by point, but in short, you act as if these people don't exist if they're not legal. Most of what you cite as "problems" are either not problems now while they're here and wouldn't change if they were legal, or ARE problems that would be fixed by legalization.
To use one of your examples, illegals put a HUGE strain on the wrong parts of the healthcare system. ERs are obligated to take people without asking for papers, for example, so now our ERs are full of immigrants coming in because they have the flu. If they had amnesty, they could go to a doctor's office like most of us do rather than the ER.
So go do the work yourself for competitive prices.Somehow the work got done before illegals worked on the farms
By giving them basic human rights.And they are coming illegally anyway i a pretty lame way to justify legalization. I fail to see how human rights abuse plays into legalization anyway? By deportation of illegals? Or are you saying we are saving them from mexico. And compassion is hardly a great rationalization either.
Prove it.Sucks that there's a waiting time limit but that's because the huge volume of people that would like to get in and the fact that we can't sustain such a huge volume of people.
Prove it, all of it. Also, legalizing them and giving them a tiny bit of support is a good way to steer many of them away from crime. They often turn to crime out of desperation. So you're saying we need to stop illegals, but you are completely aware that we basically cannot stop them (I'm Canadian, we have chinese coming in slow moving dragonboats all the time to BC's coast so I can say we).There are a huge amounts of crimes due to illegal immigration and i hardly think the best to do is legalize those who are raping our legal system and give them benefits of being american citizens. And what do we do after we legalize them? Won't that just spur more to cross the border? It's not like the illegals here are the end of it.
Welcome to Canada. Honestly, I once waited SIX HOURS bleeding all over the place to get 2 minutes worth of sutures because people with "sore backs" were getting in ahead of me. Triage and HC is an absolute joke in the first world, deal with it, a few hundred thousand mexicans is a drop in bucket compared to 300 million+ Americans all bitching.as for health care they could go to a doctors office on what? government health care? Making waiting lines huge and putting a strain on the general health care system. Most of the issues i addressed are huge concerns. You would just rather they weren't.
At the risk of sounding callous, I'm going to point out the false dichotomy presented here, as the choice is most definitely not illegally enter America or die. And if America took in every family that was starving or saved every person that was starving, we'd be harboring 1.02 billion people withing our country. While it may be cruel, it is not America's job to save everybody. Some people will have to be turned down from entering our country.The fact that he saves the life of his family?
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Have a nice day.
What basic human rights are you referring to? They already are being treated medically for free, their kids can become legal and go to our schools, they can get welfare and medicaid, they can cause crime without proper justice. I don't know what you are thinking they deserve or should be given. As far as i know they have basic human rights.So go do the work yourself for competitive prices.
By giving them basic human rights.
Prove it.
Prove it, all of it. Also, legalizing them and giving them a tiny bit of support is a good way to steer many of them away from crime. They often turn to crime out of desperation. So you're saying we need to stop illegals, but you are completely aware that we basically cannot stop them (I'm Canadian, we have chinese coming in slow moving dragonboats all the time to BC's coast so I can say we).
SOD, your choices appear to be this:
1. Try to stop the illegals and treat them like criminals even if they are trying to earn an honest wage just to make a living while denying them human rights.
2. Try to stop the illegals and treat them like human beings; they are here anyways, they won't stop coming, you might as well bite the bullet and be the country you claim to be what with the human rights, equality and BUILT ON IMMMIGRATION.
Welcome to Canada. Honestly, I once waited SIX HOURS bleeding all over the place to get 2 minutes worth of sutures because people with "sore backs" were getting in ahead of me. Triage and HC is an absolute joke in the first world, deal with it, a few hundred thousand mexicans is a drop in bucket compared to 300 million+ Americans all bitching.
You're kidding, right? Do you honestly think an illegal immigrant has more rights than you? Even close to the same rights?What basic human rights are you referring to? They already are being treated medically for free, their kids can become legal and go to our schools, they can get welfare and medicaid, they can cause crime without proper justice. I don't know what you are thinking they deserve or should be given. As far as i know they have basic human rights.
Did you seriously not understand what Colbert's testimony was about? Do you not understand the bill and why it's being debated? American agriculture specifically is dependent on migrant labor to function. If every illegal immigrant were deported, the industry would collapse. The farmers can be weaned off of illegal labor, but your solution of sending immigrants back home is not conducive to this process, and doesn't actually help the exploitation of migrant laborers. The answer of giving visas to the migrant laborers is a realistic solution that actually begins to address the problem.vanguard said:I applaud the faith you have in American workers. You cannot seriously believe that illegal immigrants workers are the keystone of our economy and without them we would fall back into the Stone Age. If businesses were to check the backgrounds of their employees and deny those with questionable immigration status, then the jobs would go to Americans and lower our unemployment rate (which everyone seems to care about) and said employees could then spend money in America instead of sending it to their home country. And we all know that spending money in America will do what?
You think it's feasible, ethical, and cost-effective to round up 15 million people and ship them out of the country? Even if we don't care about these rule-breaking brown people, it's still not plausible, nor does it even address the root problem. Even if you pull up every weed in your yard, they're just going to keep sprouting back up. (See what I did there? I helped you understand by putting it in terms you agree with - immigrants described as invasive pests.)I see nothing wrong with that.
Well, maybe there's your answer. Look at what I said, and look at your response.If they're coming to our country, they should learn English. Not only for my sake, but for their sake as well. It makes it immensely easier to get by in daily life speaking English than any of their native tongues (I don't recall ever specifying the Mexicans as the only immigrants coming here illegally).
You don't support free market economics? Are you some kind of social conservative, fiscal liberal fuckwit? Because that may just be worse than a regular right-wing fuckwit.Guess I'm not a right-wing fuckwit then.
Have you ever met an illegal ever? You are talking about basic human rights but you have not listed any examples of what that means. so i'm listing benefits they already receive. Did i ever say anywhere in there that they have more rights than me? Get over yourself and actually respond with some substance.You're kidding, right? Do you honestly think an illegal immigrant has more rights than you? Even close to the same rights?
Have you ever met an illegal? Ever? What do you think the average life of an illegal is like?
Just watched it actually. I like to think I understand it too. And there is a big difference in extending work visas to immigrants and turning a blind eye to illegal immigrants.Did you seriously not understand what Colbert's testimony was about? Do you not understand the bill and why it's being debated? American agriculture specifically is dependent on migrant labor to function. If every illegal immigrant were deported, the industry would collapse. The farmers can be weaned off of illegal labor, but your solution of sending immigrants back home is not conducive to this process, and doesn't actually help the exploitation of migrant laborers. The answer of giving visas to the migrant laborers is a realistic solution that actually begins to address the problem.
I don't recall ever using the words "invasive" or "pests" to describe immigrants. Thanks for putting words in my mouth however. And would you please thing rationally for a second. It is entirely possible to pull out all the weeds in your yard and then take preventative measures to ensure the weeds don't come back is it not? Allowing you to decide what to plant in your yard?You think it's feasible, ethical, and cost-effective to round up 15 million people and ship them out of the country? Even if we don't care about these rule-breaking brown people, it's still not plausible, nor does it even address the root problem. Even if you pull up every weed in your yard, they're just going to keep sprouting back up. (See what I did there? I helped you understand by putting it in terms you agree with - immigrants described as invasive pests.)
I admit it would cost a great amount to sweep every town of illegal immigrants. Which is why I still advocate for better preventative measure so we do not need to enact such raids.And not even to mention the massive costs of such large-scale sweeps. I thought right-wing fuckwits were opposed to government spending? I guess not when there's rule-breaking brown folk to punish.
Do you want me to leave? You seem to be having a fine argument with yourself and what you think I am.You don't support free market economics? Are you some kind of social conservative, fiscal liberal fuckwit? Because that may just be worse than a regular right-wing fuckwit.
But you're not that. Because you're going to talk about how the government needs to round up immigrants and stop the terrorists, then go right around and complain about how the government is spending too much. You're going to rant about big government, then go and support a downright gigantic army. You're going to complain about how Christians are persecuted by liberals, then oppose the building of mosques at sensitive sites. Because you are just like every other hypocritical right-wing fuckwit in America.
Thank you for saving me the time of typing this out (mostly the ad hominem part, although i also would have added in a strawman reference too).(You're also going to respond to this with "inane drivel" or "ad hominem" or something like that, but that's beside the point.)
Consider it acknowledged. I may not agree with it but it is acknowledged.At least acknowledge my valid point about NAFTA? By striking down Mexican protectionism, you've crippled the growth of Mexican industry and agriculture which is why we have so many people wanting to immigrate in the first place. That's not to say Mexico has a stagnant, dying economy - on the contrary, Mexico is one of the world's fastest growing economies (it's lumped with South Korea as right behind the BRIC nations in terms of economic development). This immigration issue might begin to resolve itself in the future as Mexico's economy continues to grow. But right now, that just isn't happening, and NAFTA is a huge reason why.
You are really certain but you are actually wrong and you know it. You posted nothing to back your position up and couldn't produce anything. Then continued to basically say i'm racist. Which is a wonderful counterpoint and rich with your knowledge of me. I'm not moving the goalposts i just want some sort of definition on what basic human rights they aren't being afforded even as illegal immigrants.I'm really certain that they aren't being treated medically at all, nevermind for free, Son of Disaster. I'm not sure how asking us to list what human rights are is supposed to counter anything since I KNOW you're not asking for your own personal benefit. That's a tactic called moving the goalposts which isn't exactly fair play in any debate. SoD, I am this point certain that you're either bigoted against these people or you are going at this from a media hype itchy trigger finger perspective, so I won't even talk about this with you any more. You're basically arguing with some sort of cultural dogma. Having said that, I agree with basically everything CIM is saying so I'll let him do the talking in this thread for me from now on. :D
Telling someone to "get over themselves and respond with substance" sounds a mite trollish to me.
I didn't know you had those rights!What basic human rights are you referring to? They already are being treated medically for free, their kids can become legal and go to our schools, they can get welfare and medicaid, they can cause crime without proper justice. I don't know what you are thinking they deserve or should be given. As far as i know they have basic human rights.
is invalid.Son of Disaster said:Have you ever met an illegal ever? You are talking about basic human rights but you have not listed any examples of what that means. so i'm listing benefits they already receive. Did i ever say anywhere in there that they have more rights than me? Get over yourself and actually respond with some substance
congratulations you've just figured out what's wrong with the American Right.I thought right wing fuckwits were in favor of free market economics? I thought that was the principle behind NAFTA, which is the bulk of the reason why we have so many people wanting to immigrate in the first place. But I guess we only support free market principles when it benefits AMERICAAAAA.
Let's talk about NAFTA for a bit - one of the most laughable statements anyone can make is that it is in any way "free market".At least acknowledge my valid point about NAFTA? By striking down Mexican protectionism, you've crippled the growth of Mexican industry and agriculture which is why we have so many people wanting to immigrate in the first place
This is stupid that you would even choose this as your point to argue. Of all the material you choose to argue what i meant by what i said. As if you can read my mind. Pitiful.Uh, you claim they have rights that you don't. Thus, they have more rights then you. Thus, is invalid.