From Overhyped to Overlooked (Top 100) [Post Chomp Ban]

[Fiddy]

From Overhyped to Overlooked

(Top 100)​

With the Smogon Server down right now I figured I will submit a RMT to try to make this team better. This is a team that brought me into the top 100 with 1378 points last week in the BW OU tier before I stopped playing with it to test other teams for some reason. With the smogon server down I decided to play with this team on the PO server and in just three days I got it into the top 100 with 1416 points. It was under the name “Fiddy.” While not amazing, it is still decent enough for me to want to keep it. The name of this team is based on haxorus. He was overhyped when BW was released, but now he is overlooked. A lot of teams don’t prepare for him and they simply can’t afford to lose those few pokemon that don’t mind switching in to him. However, note that EVERY single thing on this team is changeable and all requests will be tried if I have not tried already.​

*Edit after garchomp ban*
Garchomp has once again been banned from smogon and for good reason. With this ban I had a choice: retire this team or change it up. I decided to give it one last shot and replace garchomp with excadrill and the only thing I can say is I wish I had done this earlier. Garchomp is very good, but this team needed some more speed which excadrill provides. The RMT has been changed and fit for the garchomp ban so act like this is an entirely new RMT. It has placed me once again in the top 100 (before the ranks reset), but with much more ease than last time. Thanks for everyone who helped earlier and those who will help in the future :)​

Team At a glance​

In-Depth​

Haxorus @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP​

-Outrage
-Double chop
-Brick Break
-Earthquake​

As stated before, my main goal was to create a team with Haxorus. It really annoys me how people think this thing sucks. Before I made a 4drag1mag1tag team highlighted in lostauroras RMT, I thought haxorus was useless- just a poor mans garchomp or dragonite. Yet after playing with that team I cannot let haxorus go. Haxorus servers as my lead most of the time. As a lead he has a few jobs. First, punch large holes in teams. With Adamant CB he has 648 attack and the hardest hitting outrage in OU without set up. Even ferrothorn doesn’t like to switch into him. The second job is to lure out the steels that do wall him- namely skarmory. Then I switch into magnezone to net a few early kills. Mold breaker is a great ability and sets him apart from other dragons as rotom, gengar, bronzong and other levitators don’t like to switch in because they predict an EQ. Brick break has a few uses. The main use is for TTar because an EQ doesn’t always OHKO TTar. It is also for the times excadrill is on an air balloon. Double chop is another great move because it can break subs and then hit the opponent hard. Haxorus may not have the desired speed for a dragon but it does have one thing that garchomp, salamence, and dragonite do not have: it’s ability to take some common ice type moves. Dragonite can with multiscale, but if SR is in play multiscale is just not as good. This thing can outspeed dragonite and KO with an outrage. Something gachomp can’t even do with an unboosted dragon claw and multiscale in effect. There is only one reason why I would chose dragonite over haxorus and that is extremespeed. Admittedly, dragonite does have much better bulk but haxorus is by no means frail. He may be one of the only "drag that can brag" about taking a LO Adamant Ice Shard from Mamoswine. Now that garchomp has left the building, haxorus has a much greater role in our metagame and on this team.​

Considering: Dragon Dance set​

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP​

-Thunderbolt
-Volt Switch
-Flash Cannon
-Hidden Power [Ice]​

Switching in and scoring a few kills off of steels is extremely useful. When haxorus is done ejaculating some outrages, he switches in and kills those steels that walled haxorus. It is also my best scizor counter. I chose scarf over leftovers/sub because he can be a great revenge killer when all steels are gone and not completely useless. With the scarf he is the fastest thing on my team besides excadrill in the sand. Thunderbolt is my STAB against every non-steel. Volt-Switch was recommended by lostaurora and has been an asset to this team. It is for the times I want a hit and run- which is a lot of times with a scarf set. Flash cannon is used when ice and electricity are resisted or I just want to use a powerful STAB other than thunderbolt. Hidden power ice is for garchomp who I have a hard time with. I did try HP Fire over ice but I only used it for ferrothorn and scizor. Some scizor sets magnezone beats even with HP Ice and gliscor can easily beat him. Ferrothorn can be beat by other pokemon, most notably reuniclus, haxorus and excadrill. A STAB Thunderbolt is even more powerful than HP Fire on those only 2x weak to fire. Garchomp was such a pain that I decided to put HP Ice on him. It is also the reason why I run scarf over the sub set. However with garchomp banned I am considering HP Fire over Ice now. This will require more testing but ice does still have its niche of beating gliscor, ladorus and other dragons.​

Considering: HP Fire over Ice, Sub set​

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 220 SpD​

-Pursuit
-Crunch
-Stone Edge
-Aqua Tail​

Standard Choice Band set. Tyranitar is the second most used pokemon in the game and for good reason. He sets up sandstorm. In a weather dominated game it’s better to have the weather on your side and not the opponents. However, a lot of people don’t realize that tyranitar is used so much because he is just plain good, not only because he sets up sandstorm. Tyranitar is also extremely bulky especially on the special side, so he is my main counter against special attacks such as latios, reuniclus and even starmie. He can hit like a truck and STAB pursuit is really nice. Stone edge is more often than not the go to move. Even an intimidate from gyrados isn’t stopping him from OHKOing back.​

Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Throw
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Rock Slide
- X-Scissor
-Earthquake​

This spot was originally held by garchomp before the ban. Now that garchomp is banned, this team has been having a much easier time because one of my top threats is eliminated AND I decided to use something better. I like garchomp a lot and I completely agree with the ban, but what this team needed was some raw speed. In the sand, none of the past threats matter such as starmie. I chose the adamant life orb set because the power is unbeatable even without a SD up. With 405 attack and a life orb, this thing has a more powerful than EQ than garchomp and haxorus. Most ferrothorn sets get 2HKO'd by this bad guy. In all honesty, I cannot remember why I put 20 HP on him but I remember seeing someone say that with LO and 20 HP, he can take a conkeldurr's mach punch and life orb damage and survive. I also figured that with gliscor on my team I do not need to worry much about opposing excadrills. Also, with adamant I won't be outrunning many common excadrills. As you can see from my gliscor set I do not like to set up very often because of switching. Of course I will when I can, but the raw power of life orb and adamant does not penalize excadrill for not setting up. And even if he does set up, he is way more powerful than any other excadrill. All in all, I am glad I replaced garchomp with this just because its speed is a huge asset.

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
-Taunt
-Earthquake
-Ice Fang
-Fire Fang​

This is a very strange gliscor set but effective for this team. Gliscor is my primary physical “wall” that can also attack. It destroys threats like excadrill and can handle garchomp sometimes as well as scizor- all of which can be huge threats to the team. In almost every team I make I have to have some variant of gliscor. Taunt is to shut down stall based pokemon- especially those skarmory that got away. Earthquake is the primary move to attack fighting types or anything not named garchomp. Ice Fang is use mainly for dragons. It has a hard time taking SD garchomp sets but it can be scarf with it. I rarely used swords dance so I just replaced it with Fire Fang. If I taunt skarmory, bronzong, ferrothorn or forretress, whats the use if I can't do anything afterwords? Also, fire fang helps a ton against Scizor because it can 2HKO him. Gliscor is my best switch into jirachi. Nobody on my teams likes to take a paralysis from body slam but with poison heal he is fine with that. I chose a bulkier approach with gliscor because the speed never really appealed to me because the rest of the team can handle those pokemon that would be out outsped. I did, however, put 16 speed on him so he can outspeed standard SD scizor recommended by jiggz16. Ice fang is not needed as much anymore because the garchomp ban, so I am considering some things such as protect over it.​

Considering: Protect, toxic or possibly even Sky attack over something​

Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD​

-Psychic
-Focus Blast
-Calm mind
-Recover​

This thing got on my team by complete accident. While doing some damage calcs against it, I saved the team and loaded it and played. Originally held by rotom-w I do not regret changing them. I see many people use psyshock over psychic but there is one reason why I do not use that- gliscor. Opposing gliscors can be a pain to handle because nothing on my team really likes to switch into it. I constantly debate with myself as to whether I should have shadow ball or psychic. Psychic is a powerful stab but shadow ball could help me beat other common psychic types that otherwise give me trouble such as celebi. He and gliscor are my status absorbers. With substitute garchomp hates to take poison or WoW and the same goes with the rest of the team. Reuinclus is incredibly bulky and destroys stall teams- especially when the steels neutral to focus blast such as skarmory and jirachi are gone.​

Considering: Shadow ball over psychic​

Threats:​

Scizor is another huge threat. If magnezone can't kill him then I have a very hard time killing him. Especially the RoostSD sets. However, CB sets with U-turn is much harder to trap. I really have to do some scouting to see which set scizor is before I attempt to counter it. Fire fang on gliscor has proven to be phenomenal against it.

Scrafty is another pain. While I personally think BU sets are better, DD sets are the ones that can destroy this team. Haxorus can survive a +2 ice punch however and KO back with outrage.

With the recent change from garchomp to excadrill, infernape has proven to be the biggest threat mostly because he is so unpredictable. The mix set is by far the worst for me to face, but if it is running mach punch it can be a huge pain to deal with as well.


Highlighted = New things
​

 

[Lord Liam]

Hi, nice team you have. There's one thing that stands out to me, you're using CB Haxorus over CB Garchomp. CB Garchomp lacks 17 attack, but gains the ridiculous ability Sand Veil, superior speed, superior typing, STAB Earthquake and electric immunity, much better bulk and a fire move among other things. Haxorus's only advantage is 17 points of attack whereas Garchomp has quite a few advantages losing those few points of attack. I'd recommend you change Haxorus to Garchomp and keep the set roughly the same. Looks good, just change that one thing.

 

[Fiddy]

Hi, nice team you have. There's one thing that stands out to me, you're using CB Haxorus over CB Garchomp. CB Garchomp lacks 17 attack, but gains the ridiculous ability Sand Veil, superior speed, superior typing, STAB Earthquake and electric immunity, much better bulk and a fire move among other things. Haxorus's only advantage is 17 points of attack whereas Garchomp has quite a few advantages losing those few points of attack. I'd recommend you change Haxorus to Garchomp and keep the set roughly the same. Looks good, just change that one thing.

Thanks Liam! So do you think I should keep CB on haxorus still or make a SD or DD set? But I will definitely try CB on garchomp.

 

[ChaosZekrom]

The team is excellent overall but you should consider Earthquake on TTar instead of Aqua Tail as it doesnt have much use other than taking out other TTar, which Earthquake does better anyway.

For Gliscor, I suggest you try this set:

Gliscor/Poison Heal
252 HP 252 Def 4 Atk
Impish Nature
Protect
Fling/Toxic
Acrobatics/Ice Fang
Earthquake
This set helps Gliscor take out other walls instead of just other physical attackers. Fling is to poison your opponent which Toxic also does, but Fling lets you use Acrobatics, which is a 165 power with STAB if you dont have an item. Toxic lets you poison more Pokemon in exchange for a extremely powerful STAB.

Magnezone should also carry HP Fire as having Magnet Pull is useless as you have nothing to hit steels.....mostly Ferrothorn and your Scizor problem.

The rest of the team is standard and should be left the way it is.

 

[Fiddy]

The team is excellent overall but you should consider Earthquake on TTar instead of Aqua Tail as it doesnt have much use other than taking out other TTar, which Earthquake does better anyway.

For Gliscor, I suggest you try this set:

Gliscor/Poison Heal
252 HP 252 Def 4 Atk
Impish Nature
Protect
Fling/Toxic
Acrobatics/Ice Fang
Earthquake
This set helps Gliscor take out other walls instead of just other physical attackers. Fling is to poison your opponent which Toxic also does, but Fling lets you use Acrobatics, which is a 165 power with STAB if you dont have an item. Toxic lets you poison more Pokemon in exchange for a extremely powerful STAB.

Magnezone should also carry HP Fire as having Magnet Pull is useless as you have nothing to hit steels.....mostly Ferrothorn and your Scizor problem.

The rest of the team is standard and should be left the way it is.

Thank you! I will consider EQ however aqua does have a few uses. For one, it doesn't fall victim to air balloon so it can KO an unboosted excadrill on air balloon. The second, and perhaps most important, is that it can counter gliscor. It can also hit terrakion, landorus and hippowdon for SE damage. I will consider EQ, but aqua does have its uses.

I originally did have the Gliscor Fling set. With that set it is mostly for countering fighting types. The only fighting type that I have trouble with is scrafty because reuniclus can't do much to him. The set used is a better counter to scizor and stall in general. While aerial ace is not as powerful as fling acrobat, I could put it over swords dance since I don't use it much anyways. I will do some calcs on that. If not, toxic or protect could go over it.

Like I said, I do debate with myself all the time on whether I should HP Ice of Fire. A STAB thunderbolt is more powerful than an HP Fire on a pokemon that is only 2x weak to fire. For example, HP Fire does an average of 122 damage on specially defensive Jirachi and is always a 3HKO. Thunderbolt does an average of 126 damage against it and is always a 3HKO. So against steels that are only 2x weak to fire, it doesn't matter. This makes HP Fire only useable against scizor and ferrothorn. Ferrothorn can be countered by almost every pokemon on my team, but reuinclus is the best bet. Garchomp is the main reason why I would use HP Ice, but it can be used against dragonite, salamence and other dragons. In the end, it really boils down to this question: do I want to counter scizor or do I want to counter garchomp? With my team I often would have to rely on speed ties with opposing garchomps and that is something I do not like to rely on. Choice band sets that aren't locked into superpower can still be countered by magnezone. The other sets can be countered with gliscor. So that is why I ended up chosing HP Ice instead.

 

[MasterX]

CB adamant garchomp doesn't lack 17 attack it lacks 57 attack (591) from CB haxorus (648) which is a huge difference. You should stick with CB haxorus as even skarmory is 3HKO with outrage and haxorus has more wall breaking power than garchomp ever will, it's better with a sub sd set because haxorus does cb better than garchomp.

 

[ssbbm]

He was referring to the Base Attack I think; 147 to 130.

 

[Fiddy]

He was referring to the Base Attack I think; 147 to 130.

Yeah liam was referring to the base stats but when EVs and band is factored in it is a 57 point difference.

The beauty about sub SD is that garchomp has stab dragon and earthquake which is great coverage. I'm not sure I want to switch out every time garchomp is confused when he could sweep an entire team. But I will still try it.

 

[lostaurora]

Liking the CB Haxorus a lot, I think we both used that set to great effectiveness on the Dragon teams, lol.

If you want Gliscor to have a better offensive option over Ice Fang (especially against Conkeldurr) go with the AcroFling set. Wouldn't this make it harder to handle opposing Dragonite/Salamence/Garchomp and other Gliscor, though?

On Magnezone, I highly recommend Volt Switch over Discharge. If you need to pick off a weakened threat (especially when you're running Scarf) it's much better to be able to kill it and then send in something of your choice instead of locking yourself into an Electric-type move, which is a perfect opportunity for opposing Garchomp to set up (and even worse due to the fact that Magnezone, your check, has to switch out and back in again before it can hope to use HP Ice on it.)

Reuniclus really wishes it could do Psychic/FB/Shadow Ball with CM and Recover, but I think the two you've chosen are still the best picks - at least you have some chance against Steels and Tyranitar when you use FB, and without a STAB Psychic move, I think you'll lack power due to the lack of SpA investment.

Interesting idea on Tyranitar with Aqua Tail. Must be a nice feeling to be able to nail incoming Gliscor with a Banded Aqua Tail.

 

[Fiddy]

Liking the CB Haxorus a lot, I think we both used that set to great effectiveness on the Dragon teams, lol.

If you want Gliscor to have a better offensive option over Ice Fang (especially against Conkeldurr) go with the AcroFling set. Wouldn't this make it harder to handle opposing Dragonite/Salamence/Garchomp and other Gliscor, though?

On Magnezone, I highly recommend Volt Switch over Discharge. If you need to pick off a weakened threat (especially when you're running Scarf) it's much better to be able to kill it and then send in something of your choice instead of locking yourself into an Electric-type move, which is a perfect opportunity for opposing Garchomp to set up (and even worse due to the fact that Magnezone, your check, has to switch out and back in again before it can hope to use HP Ice on it.)

Reuniclus really wishes it could do Psychic/FB/Shadow Ball with CM and Recover, but I think the two you've chosen are still the best picks - at least you have some chance against Steels and Tyranitar when you use FB, and without a STAB Psychic move, I think you'll lack power due to the lack of SpA investment.

Interesting idea on Tyranitar with Aqua Tail. Must be a nice feeling to be able to nail incoming Gliscor with a Banded Aqua Tail.

Yeah we did use haxorus a lot haha. Gotta love it tho.

The acrofling set would be better against conkeldurr and fighting types in general, but with reuniclus I'm not very worried. Both reuniclus and gliscor are two of fighting types greatest weaknesses. Ice Fang helps a ton against dragons which I need.

I also replaced Fire Fang with Swords Dance. After some testing, it really helped against the Scizor problem. A lot of people don't expect it either which is nice.

Volt switch over discharge is a VERY good idea. I will try that and it will probably work better.

I will still test SB over psychic on reuniclus and do some damage calcs. But that is the only reason why I think psychic will be better.

 

[Fiddy]

Just using my 24 hour bump to say that I tried volt switch and it worked much better than discharge. I also updated the OP with a few things.

Now that I feel a lot more confident with scizors and garchomps I am looking for a way to counter starmie. TTar can but it's not always guaranteed.

So I added:
-Fire fang on gliscor (which has been working wonders)
-Volt switch on magnezone (^)
-LO starmie as big threat

 

[ssbbm]

Use Magneton over Magnezone - it can outspeed Starmie with a Choice Scarf due to its higher base speed.

 

[Fiddy]

Use Magneton over Magnezone - it can outspeed Starmie with a Choice Scarf due to its higher base speed.

That's a good idea. I will try it. The bulk on magneton is a lot worse and may not be good, but we will see.

 

[Paradoxus]

You have way to many Choice users here. Never use a Choiced Pokemon as a lead, especially in DW. Think of it this way:

Battle between Drakos and SomeGuy has started!

Drakos sends out Haxorus!
SomeGuy sends out Ambipom!

Ambipom uses Fake out!
It does %(insert percentage here)!
Haxorus flinched!

Ambipom used U-Turn!
It does %(insert percentage here)!
Chandelure is switched in.
Haxorus uses Brick Break
It doesn't effect Chandelure...


And then your screwed. Good leads need 1 of 3 things:

1: Priority (Quick Attack, Aqua Jet, Extreme Speed)
2: Ability to use a switching move (U-Turn or Volt Change)
3: Being able to use a support move (Stealth Rock, Spikes, Rapid Spin, Dual Screens etc.)

And Haxorus has absolutely none of them.

So take the CB off of TTar and slap Lefties on him, and give him this set:

Tyranitar@Leftovers
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
move 1: Dragon Tail
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Rock Slide
move 4: Earthquake

Shuffler lead is fun.

Next up, change Haxorus to DD set.

Make Garchomp ScarfChomp

Switch HP Ice with HP Fire, Magnezone is to counter Steels, not to hit Dragon- and Ground- types.

Then take Fire Fang off, it provides no coverage except on Levitating Steels and Skarmory, which HP Fire Magnezone handles already.

 

[lostaurora]

You have way to many Choice users here. Never use a Choiced Pokemon as a lead, especially in DW. Think of it this way:

Battle between Drakos and SomeGuy has started!

Drakos sends out Haxorus!
SomeGuy sends out Ambipom!

Ambipom uses Fake out!
It does %(insert percentage here)!
Haxorus flinched!

Ambipom used U-Turn!
It does %(insert percentage here)!
Chandelure is switched in.
Haxorus uses Brick Break
It doesn't effect Chandelure...


And then your screwed. Good leads need 1 of 3 things:

1: Priority (Quick Attack, Aqua Jet, Extreme Speed)
2: Ability to use a switching move (U-Turn or Volt Change)
3: Being able to use a support move (Stealth Rock, Spikes, Rapid Spin, Dual Screens etc.)

And Haxorus has absolutely none of them.

So take the CB off of TTar and slap Lefties on him, and give him this set:

Tyranitar@Leftovers
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
move 1: Dragon Tail
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Rock Slide
move 4: Earthquake

Shuffler lead is fun.

Next up, change Haxorus to DD set.

Make Garchomp ScarfChomp

Switch HP Ice with HP Fire, Magnezone is to counter Steels, not to hit Dragon- and Ground- types.

Then take Fire Fang off, it provides no coverage except on Levitating Steels and Skarmory, which HP Fire Magnezone handles already.

Except, well, the first scenario never happens because the only Fake Out + U-Turn lead anyone ever uses is Mienshao, and then the obvious thing to do would be to not lead with Haxorus. Offensive leads work just fine as long as you know what you're doing. CB Haxorus wrecks things.

Why would you use T-Tar as a shuffler...? Defense investment or not, a strong Fighting-type attack will kill it, and it's slow, has no recovery, and Rock Slide is weak.

Why can't you counter Dragons/Grounds with Magnezone? It's great for revenging Dragons (especially Outraging ones) and this team would be more Garchomp weak without it. HP Fire is only good against Scizor, Genesect, Ferrothorn, and Forretress anyway. Forretress is massacred by Thunderbolt anyway, Genesect is easily handled because Magnezone should conceivably switch into it when it has revenged something and is locked into T-Bolt/Ice Beam, so Thunderbolt works fine. Ferrothorn and Scizor are handled by Reuniclus and Gliscor respectively. Nothing else on his team can handle a SDChomp effectively, so HP Ice is a good option.

 

[Paradoxus]

Except, well, the first scenario never happens because the only Fake Out + U-Turn lead anyone ever uses is Mienshao, and then the obvious thing to do would be to not lead with Haxorus. Offensive leads work just fine as long as you know what you're doing. CB Haxorus wrecks things.

Why would you use T-Tar as a shuffler...? Defense investment or not, a strong Fighting-type attack will kill it, and it's slow, has no recovery, and Rock Slide is weak.

Why can't you counter Dragons/Grounds with Magnezone? It's great for revenging Dragons (especially Outraging ones) and this team would be more Garchomp weak without it. HP Fire is only good against Scizor, Genesect, Ferrothorn, and Forretress anyway. Forretress is massacred by Thunderbolt anyway, Genesect is easily handled because Magnezone should conceivably switch into it when it has revenged something and is locked into T-Bolt/Ice Beam, so Thunderbolt works fine. Ferrothorn and Scizor are handled by Reuniclus and Gliscor respectively. Nothing else on his team can handle a SDChomp effectively, so HP Ice is a good option.

Except you can't change your Pokemon order in DW.

This your exaggerating this team's Garchomp weakness, Gliscor and the Tyranitar variant I suggested counter it.

TTar is a good shuffler in this particular team because the rest of the team can handle Fighting- and Ground- types easily

APR 2011 BW OU USAGE
Total Battles: 299644
+ ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage | Percent |
+ ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1 | Ferrothorn | 127997 | 21.3582 |
| 2 | Tyranitar | 124735 | 20.8139 |
| 3 | Scizor | 112589 | 18.7871 |
| 4 | Garchomp | 109670 | 18.3000 |
| 5 | Gliscor | 89599 | 14.9509 |
| 6 | Latios | 78471 | 13.0940 |
| 7 | Excadrill | 78095 | 13.0313 |
| 8 | Reuniclus | 76510 | 12.7668 |
| 9 | Heatran | 72800 | 12.1477 |
| 10 | Rotom-W | 69963 | 11.6744 |
| 11 | Conkeldurr | 64134 | 10.7017 |
| 12 | Jirachi | 62501 | 10.4292 |
| 13 | Politoed | 61688 | 10.2935 |
| 14 | Dragonite | 60079 | 10.0251 |
| 15 | Thundurus | 57828 | 9.6495 |
| 16 | Gengar | 57689 | 9.6263 |
| 17 | Jellicent | 54143 | 9.0346 |
| 18 | Skarmory | 53975 | 9.0065 |
| 19 | Volcarona | 52072 | 8.6890 |
| 20 | Starmie | 49991 | 8.3417 |
| 21 | Gyarados | 46153 | 7.7013 |
| 22 | Hydreigon | 42618 | 7.1114 |
| 23 | Forretress | 41393 | 6.9070 |
| 24 | Blissey | 40940 | 6.8314 |
| 25 | Infernape | 39458 | 6.5841 |
| 26 | Ninetales | 37550 | 6.2658 |
| 27 | Vaporeon | 35047 | 5.8481 |
| 28 | Salamence | 34864 | 5.8176 |
| 29 | Breloom | 32410 | 5.4081 |
| 30 | Chandelure | 31648 | 5.2809 |
| 31 | Scrafty | 31427 | 5.2441 |
| 32 | Tentacruel | 31247 | 5.2140 |
| 33 | Metagross | 31188 | 5.2042 |
| 34 | Terrakion | 31080 | 5.1862 |
| 35 | Swampert | 30888 | 5.1541 |
| 36 | Haxorus | 29906 | 4.9903 |
| 37 | Lucario | 28559 | 4.7655 |
| 38 | Cloyster | 28456 | 4.7483 |
| 39 | Hippowdon | 28282 | 4.7193 |
| 40 | Magnezone | 27769 | 4.6337 |
| 41 | Deoxys-S | 27314 | 4.5577 |
| 42 | Machamp | 26504 | 4.4226 |
| 43 | Landorus | 26297 | 4.3880 |
| 44 | Whimsicott | 25583 | 4.2689 |
| 45 | Latias | 25340 | 4.2284 |
| 46 | Bronzong | 25206 | 4.2060 |
| 47 | Mienshao | 24469 | 4.0830 |
| 48 | Darmanitan | 23841 | 3.9782 |
| 49 | Toxicroak | 23494 | 3.9203 |
| 50 | Virizion | 23124 | 3.8586 |
| 51 | Venusaur | 21397 | 3.5704 |
| 52 | Porygon2 | 20833 | 3.4763 |
| 53 | Tornadus | 20586 | 3.4351 |

Im pretty sure you need a check to the #1, #3, and #23 most used Pokemon in OU.

And the scenario was only and example. Especially in DW, there are many Normal- type leads like Ambipom and Meloetta.

When did I say that you wanted power on the TyraniShuffler set? Gliscor doesn't check Scizor just because it can take it's hits, as it does no damage in return.

EDIT: Actually, he can use a similar set with Hippowdon, but then you are much more vulnerable to Special Attackers:

Hippowdon@Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Atk
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Roar
move 3: Slack Off
move 4: Earthquake / Ice Fang

 

[lostaurora]

Except you can't change your Pokemon order in DW.

This your exaggerating this team's Garchomp weakness, Gliscor and the Tyranitar variant I suggested counter it.

TTar is a good shuffler in this particular team because the rest of the team can handle Fighting- and Ground- types easily

Im pretty sure you need a check to the #1, #3, and #23 most used Pokemon in OU.

And the scenario was only and example. Especially in DW, there are many Normal- type leads like Ambipom and Meloetta.

When did I say that you wanted power on the TyraniShuffler set? Gliscor doesn't check Scizor just because it can take it's hits, as it does no damage in return.

You can change the order in DW on the Smogon server.

Neither Gliscor or Tyranitar can take SubSD Garchomp. It subs on your switch, then SDs as you break the sub. Gliscor's Ice Fang maxes out at around ~60% on standard SDChomp, while it 2HKOs with Outrage. Even Dragon Claw is likely to 2HKO. Tyranitar gets OHKOed by Earthquake before it can do anything besides break the sub.

And by using HP Fire, you lose your ability to check #4, 14, and 28, and the rest of the team can already handle the ones you mentioned. That's why Fire Fang on Gliscor is useful. And 2% of DW teams have Ambipom, and Meloetta was used less than Poliwrath. Why does it matter so much against Normal-types in general, anyway? Haxorus can just demolish them with Outrage.

 

[jiggz16]

Are you playing in Dream World? The OP doesn't mention it...

Anyway, I run a Haxorus lead on my joke 4drag2mag team and it is a boss. Personally, I run Dragon Dance, Taunt, Outrage, and Earthquake while holding a Lum Berry. You can Taunt the slower, bulkier Pokemon that often lead against Haxorus and proceed to set up with DD. Lum Berry is super useful even with Taunt as it allows you to keep Outraging after you confuse yourself.

For Magnezone, I run the Sub-Charge Beam set. As long as you don't switch into a Ferrothorn's Leech Seed, you can Sub and set up with Charge Beam. In my experience, when I finally KO it, I'm usually around +4 with a Sub. That pretty much puts a hurt on anyone who comes in. I run Thunderbolt for more power and HP fire for Scizor.

I also run a Scarfchomp with Dual Chop and Fire Blast and it has worked wonders for me on several other kinds of teams, not just multi-dragon ones. The misses from Dual Chop sometimes hurt, but the ability to break Gengar and Dragonite's subs and then deal more damage for a potential KO is pretty awesome.

I don't run Gliscor myself, but the ones that give me the most hassle are the ones with Protect. With Poison Heal it becomes a major pain to take down.

I can't really comment on the rest of the team seeing as how I don't have much experience with Bandtar or Reuniclus but if you're having trouble with Starmie you could turn Tyranitar into a complete special wall with Pursuit, Crunch, Stone Edge, and filler like Stealth Rock.

 

[Paradoxus]

Well, you could run Hippowdon and use Ice Fang, that kind of works out, as it can scare Garchomp away.

And Magnezone only counters Chomp while it is locked into Outrage as Earthquake will KO it. So really, you don't have a very reliable counter to Garchomp as Dual Chop + Sand Veil = Thunder's accuracy.

 

[lostaurora]

Well, you could run Hippowdon and use Ice Fang, that kind of works out, as it can scare Garchomp away.

And Magnezone only counters Chomp while it is locked into Outrage as Earthquake will KO it. So really, you don't have a very reliable counter to Garchomp as Dual Chop + Sand Veil = Thunder's accuracy.

If it's the Scarfchomp, this team can handle it fine.

Scarf Magnezone can be used for an easy kill on SDChomp, which is more troublesome.

I mean, you can call it unreliable because of Sand Veil, but then everything is in fact unreliable against Garchomp.

 

[Paradoxus]

Yes, but Dual Chop has 90 Accuracy, but combined with Sand Veil it has horrible accuracy.

 

[KnivesNPistols]

Doesn't Mold Breaker break the Sand Veil though?
If so, Scarfed Haxorus might actually be one of the most reliable SD Chomp revenge killers at the moment as it could revenge it with Double Chop even when Chomp is behind a sub and has below half of his health.

 

[Fiddy]

@jiggz16 I am NOT playing in DW. The OP does say this when it says "Top 100 in BW OU tier" and how there is no Dream World caption. Also, magnezone being scarf is very important. It is the fastest thing on the team and can do a lot to non-steels. While I do agree that the subcharge set is very good, I don't think it fits very well on this team. He is my main revenge killer and counter to a lot of the faster things.

@Paradoxus I am not worried about ferrothorn at all. Reuniclus takes a crap on it. Fire fang on gliscor with taunt does too. Garchomp and Haxorus can sometimes as well. Scizor is a little more troublesome, but ever since I added fire fang on gliscor I have had no problems with it. HP Ice is key for magnezone and I will not switch it. I used to have HP Fire on it but it didn't work nearly as well. The ONLY things HP Fire is good for on magnezone is scizor and ferrothorn which I do not fear at all now. HP Fire DOES NOT need to be used on forretress because thunderbolt is a 2HKO and so is HP Fire thanks to the new sturdy. If it is just 2x effective, a STAB thunderbolt is more powerful.

Choice Band on Haxorus is the reason why I use it as a lead. First of all, I would never use brick break except for ttar and balloon heatran/excadrill. Second, the point of haxorus IS to get the opponent to switch to the typical dragon counters or walls. It is to draw out skarmory who I switch to magnezone. I can try DD, but haxorus main job is to allow garchomp to sweep.

I have been considering scarf on garchomp but I don't really see a point now. With HP Ice on magnezone I am not worried about other dragons. I do see the benefits of being able to counter other fast pokemon, but I'm really not sure because garchomp sweeps easily with sub sd. But I am still considering it.

I can take off fire fang, but what would I replace it with? Swords Dance was mostly for those times I taunt fighting types and SD up to KO them. But reuniclus screws over fighting types more. I never used SD and there is nothing else I can really replace it with. But Fire Fang has allowed me to hit scizor, ferrothorn, skarmory, bronzong and other steels.

Honestly the only thing I really hate now is fast ice users. Deoxys-S, Starmie, etc. I could try scarf chomp for these but there are still the priority users.

I tried magneton but its bulk is just terrible. Also, magneton only has a 50% chance to OHKO garchomp with HP Ice. I will keep magnezone.

 

[Paradoxus]

Whatever, but you didn't mention Choice Scarf.

 

[Fiddy]

Whatever, but you didn't mention Choice Scarf.

I will try scarfchomp and DD hax.

When testing a bunch of things with this team I've lost a ton of points :/