i'm high on speed (deoxys-E/S discussion)

AJC

AJC

386-s.png


http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/386.shtml

50/95/90/180/95/90

Psychic

Trait: Pressure: attacks used on deoxys will cost 2 PP instead of 1

Currently in a rut it's outclassed by its other forms when it comes to attacking and defending and Mew just got a massive upgrade with BP+loads of options to pass all it has is speed 95 attack isn't doing much without hitting a weakeness and 50/90/90 isn't really that great for taking the kind of hits the likes of garchomp and T-tar can deal out will this cool deoxys form be lowered to OU or will it remain barely uber?

Notable physcial movepool moves in bold are stabbed

Zen headbutt
Extremespeed
Pursuit
knock off
Focus Punch
Superpower
Brick Break
Avalance
Rock slide

elemental punchs/bodyslam/double-edge via emerald tutor

Notable special movepool moves in bold are stabbed

Psycho Boost
Psychic
Grass knot
Energy ball
Solarbeam
Shadow ball
Ice beam
Thunder bolt
Thunder
Charge beam
Focus Blast
Hidden power

Notable support moves

Calm mind
Amnesia
Barrier
Cosmic power
Recover
Thunder wave
Reflect
Light screen
Safeguard
Sleep talk
Torment
Taunt
Sunny day
Rain dance
Rest
Snatch
Substitute
Stealth Rock
Spikes

Good lord this is massive

god it gets so many moves trying to think up a set is a nightmare i can't think up one right now
 
Gets Spikes as well which you missed. Choice Specs are cool on this guy but being 'outclassed' sums this guy up pretty well.

Of all the "Ubers" from Advance, this guy is probably the least messed up. Good move-pool, okay stats but not overpowering. We should probably le him run around in OU for a bit so people actually use him.
 
I'm going to say no the whole OU thing. Baton Pass this thing a Swords Dance or Nasty Plot and it game over.

Everyone needs to stop revolving the tiers around Ttar. Yes, he got a SpDef boost but everyone forgets it was his defensive side that was always more counterable. So stop coming up with this preconceived notions of what is Uber until some basic testing starts within the next couple of weeks. Every topic keeps coming down to this.
 
If he is allowed in OU a Choice Specs/Choice Band set would be cool. Also he can easily be stopped even after a SD/NP, just use the appropriate wall.

He's just too weak to compete in ubers, except maybe as a Deoxys-F counter (Deo-E's ExSpeed outspeeds Deo-FR's)
 
Baton Pass anything a Scheme or Swords Dance and it's game over, tbh.

This thing is meh. Sure it outspeed everything but what else will it do? 50 base HP ;_; . Could probably allow this thing to be tested in standard as it's not even nearly as much of a threat as, for an example, Celebi is.
 
StrikeJP said:
I'm going to say no the whole OU thing. Baton Pass this thing a Swords Dance or Nasty Plot and it game over.
Click to expand...
Misch said:
Baton Pass anything a Scheme or Swords Dance and it's game over, tbh.
Click to expand...
Kind of sums it up really, its no more game over than if you passed a Swords Dance to a Weavile or a Nasty Plot to Azelf. Its faster than those two examples and has a good move-pool but basing its power over "if you Baton Passed X to it" is a poor way to view its power.

To be honest I completely forgot Deo-E existed until this thread popped up.
 
IIRC D-E was tested in Advance standards and deemed too powerful because it could set up extremely quickly and easily and was so unpredictable and was actually somewhat durable.
 
EarthBender said:
As Surgo once said:
Any. Fast. Sweeper.

Anyway, I think it shoud be allowed in standard, at least at first. Then again, I'm the rebel who thinks Ho-oh is OU material...
Click to expand...

Except this thing has an unpredictabile moveset and a base speed nothing can top in hopes of a revenge kill.
 
you do know sucker punch exists and in order to really take hits it has to not only max HP but also put alot into defenses which reduces attacking power its only able to boost its special attack by itself
 
its moveset is unpredictable but imo just a bit more than gars or zams i think this should simply be retested in ou to see if it belongs in there of if it will remain in ubers
 
Coming from a very highly anti-legendary/non-breedable pokemon standpoint I'm also of opinion Deoxys-E is actually feasible in a OU environment.

With straight 90 stats this feels like nothing more than a psychic version of Kingdra with Rain Dance/Swift Swim, but with horrible HP to boot but much better movepool.

Given though I'd still prefer if legendaries in general were removed from the standard environment so the more underpowered pogeys are actually usuable. But that doesn't look like it'd happen anytime soon.
 
Deoxys-E isn't just a fast sweeper, it's the FASTEST sweeper. That is, most pokemon used to received bp boosts for sweeping require some sort of speed AND offense boost.

Deoxys-E basically will skew speed stats on other Pokemon to deal with it. Most Pokemon can't even hope to touch Deoxys-E speed even WITH Choice Scarf, that's how dangerous it is.
 
imo i feel we have way more of threats right now than this thing to deal with , blissey metagross snorlax and even heatran can beat this thing
 
SDShamshel said:
Deoxys-E isn't just a fast sweeper, it's the FASTEST sweeper. That is, most pokemon used to received bp boosts for sweeping require some sort of speed AND offense boost.

Deoxys-E basically will skew speed stats on other Pokemon to deal with it. Most Pokemon can't even hope to touch Deoxys-E speed even WITH Choice Scarf, that's how dangerous it is.
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A lot of Pokemon can't hope to outrun Ninjask, infact the ones that can are the ones that can outrun Deo-E (non nature). The main point of that example being that Speed isn't the only thing that makes a good sweeper, and at the end of the day its Speed stat is so enormous that I can't picture this Pokemon ever being set to max anyway. The aforementioned Sucker Punch, as well as the additonal Quick Attack moves skew that a bit.

The fact that it's a viable sweeper on both ends as well as a decent support is something I will concede though, but as a sweeper the only stat boosting it moves it has for its own offences is Calm Mind, which makes it a whole lot less scary. If this guy could throw up a Swords Dance or Nasty Plot off the bat it would be a lot more worrying but Calm Mind is no where near as scary, especially off of the somewhat average 95 Base stat.

If what Great Sage stated repeats itself then sayonara off to Ubers again, but on paper Deo-E really doesn't look like an uber =/
 
50/90/90 defenses are adequate but not great. 95/95 attacking stats are decent, but not great. 180 speed is excellent, but more of a waste than anything else. Speed Deoxys will always go first. It's just something that needs to be dealt with. It's extreme speed is weaker than Arcanine's. It's special attacking abilities are weaker than most other notable special attackers. The best thing about it is that it doesn't have to put much into speed, meaning it can afford defensive EVs.

Deoxys @ Choice Specs||Band
Trait: Pressure
Nature: Modest/Adamant
EVs: 252 HP, 252 S||Atk, 4 Spd
~Psychic/Psycho Boost||Zen Headbutt
~Energy Ball/Ice Beam||Pursuit/Extreme Speed
~Thunderbolt/Ice Beam||Super Power/Focus Punch
~Shadow Ball/Ice Beam/Focus Punch||Rock Slide

The four EVs in speed should push Deoxys to 397, which still owns everything that aims for 396 to outspeed 394. Everything else is just elementary. It's not more dangerous than choosing something to switch into Salamence, and Salamence's Draco Meteor hurts a *lot* more.
 
A similar argument came up in ADV about Ninjask in regards to personality.

"Why in the world would Ninjask ever run Jolly over Adamant if it's so fast?"

With the advent of BP teams, the reason became apparent: To outrun other Ninjask.

Deoxys-E WILL run Jolly, even if it's to outspeed other Deoxys-E. Yes, I know that it gets Extremespeed as well, but it will still want to beat it if both are using non-priority moves.

Oh, that's another thing. Deoxys-E gets Extremespeed AND it's the fastest pokemon in the game. If it Extremespeeds it will beat ANY sucker puncher, and cause it to fail.
 
This topic is old as hell, but it has me wondering, will Deoxys-E be given a chance in D/P to see if he's uber or not? I don't see the huge harm in it, and the only amazing thing about him is speed anyway(and there are counters for fast pokes, not to mention trick room makes him the 'slowest' pokemon in the game).
 
Deoxys-E's strong point is that, together with its 180 base speed, it can learn basically every move under the sun.

This thing has the fastest Sub, and can also use the fastest Taunt, making it practically immune to T-Wave. Getting Recover makes it rather more durable than you might think, especially since it only requires 16 Speed EVs to outrun base 130s, and neither Ninjask nor Electrode would OHKO with their moves. I would consider things carefully before moving it to OU, but I suspect that its killer movepool is what would still leave him in the uber tier (and would, again, be rendered useless). I'm all for testing it out though... as with everything else, for that matter.
 
X, that's some really nice logic in your post. I'm going to have to agree to all that. But I'm also going to have to say that outside from the speed and movepool, he really is quite unspectacular. Now, although those two coupled together are quite spectacular, all it takes is a good, solid counter stratagy, that teams can accomidate without having to base an entire stratagy around them, am I right about this?

I could forsee that happening, perhaps.
 
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