Item Alternatives: A Request

Odinwolf

I am a new pokemon player who is attempting to learn the game well enough to battle competitively and hang with anyone I face. I've been trying to use this site to educate me on both the general competitive game and on specific pokemon that I want to master and use in my teams. However, I've been running into a problem while browsing the Analysis area.

Almost every pokemon is listed as @ Leftovers. Most of the rest are @ Choice Band, Choice Scarf or Life Orb, even guys with wildly different jobs on the team.

I understand that those particular items are probably the best "all-purpose" items for pokemon to carry, but since most tournaments have an item clause that only allows me one copy of any of those items in play, so I can't have a team where 5 pokemon are carrying Leftovers and one has Choice Band. If those analysis threads are going to be of any help to newer players, there need to be item alternatives listed.

For instance, if I want to use a support Zapdos on my team but my Blissey is already carrying Leftovers, should I throw a Zap Plate on Zapdos and hope its helpful when I use Thunderbolt? Or should I stick one of the life restoring berries on him so I can survive a tough hit? If those analysis threads are going to help me build a team, I could really use more than just "@ Leftovers" thrown onto every option.

I really appreciate all the effort people are putting into making those topics and I don't want to complain because this site has already helped a lot, but I genuinely think there's a major hole in the analysis threads right now that, for the experienced people putting them together, should only take a few minutes each to fix. Hopefully that will help even more new pokemon players get into the game. Thanks!
 
we're just offering the best choices for those pokemon, which is usually confined to a handful of items. and most of them can be obtained many times, through participating in battle tower and such

if these items arent available to you, i would have to say you should rely on your personal judgement
 
I agree with the topic, most tournaments will have Item Clause which sucks. :(

There's always Shell Bell.. Sitrus Berry (>_>), etc.. for healing.. or don't put Leftovers on a dude who has Recover, etc...

I think we'll see a fair bit of the powerup-type items, and I in particular am interested in the resistance berries, I think they could help some pokemon out greatly.
 
Steelicks said:
we're just offering the best choices for those pokemon, which is usually confined to a handful of items. and most of them can be obtained many times, through participating in battle tower and such

if these items arent available to you, i would have to say you should rely on your personal judgement
Click to expand...

You are missing the point of the topic entirely. I never said the items are not available to me. I can get all the items I want through the battle tower or trading with friends.

The point is that, in a tournament setting, I am not allowed to use those items over and over again. I am required to restrict my item usage to just one of any kind. What I am suggesting, is that the analysis topic creators add in a couple of item options to their sets so that when Leftovers isn't available because of the tournament ruleset, players have second and third best options to work with.

Experts of the pokemon series don't really need the analysis that much anyway. They already know what works and what doesn't and they will be able to use their personal judgement to switch in new, useful items. For those of us that are new to the game, these analysis threads stop being useful as soon as we start building a team because they almost all say "@ Leftovers."

So to make the Analysis threads more useful for the people that actually need them, I am suggesting that creators include item alternatives. Hope that clarifies what I was saying in the first post.
 
Even with Item Clause, its still possible to get a pretty good team. Look at some of the choices, after Leftovers, Life Orb, and the Choice items.

Wacan Berry - Gyarados
Yache Berry- Garchomp/Salamence/Gliscor (not really recommended for Garchomp/Salamence when they make good use of the choice items)
Focus Sash - Rampardos
Toxic Orb - Breloom
Expert Belt - Electivire

Even with just 3 of those 5, you already have at least 4 good items (whichever 3 you picked, and Leftovers). Then just get someone with Life Orb and a Choice item and you're set. For example, Cresselia/Blissey/etc. @ Leftovers, Electivire @ Expert Belt, Breloom @ Toxic Orb, Salamence @ Choice Specs, Gyarados @ Wacan Berry, and Gengar @ Life Orb. Not the greatest team, but it would work pretty well with Item Clause (not counting the fact that half of them are weak to Weavile)

edit- theres also the +stat berries. Salac Berry on End/Rev Lucario, Leichi/Petaya/Salac on Dragonite (depending on how you use it... you don't even need an item to trigger those, it survives un-STABbed Ice Beams which will trigger those berries), etc.
 
think about the items that could be used with the set.

like the items the above user posted...

you could also use items like Black Sludge (does same thing as lefties, only for poison-types) that sort of mimic the recommended items.

be creative and find something that can work. there's a lot of items out there.
 
This seems like the correct Thread to ask this:

What's "better" as an equip item for Defensive PKMN:

Wet Rock / Heat Rock / Sandy Rock / Light Clay
OR
Leftovers?

The first set of items allow the effect to last a bit longer, but Lefties provide overall "WALLness" and if the PKMN survives, it can set up the effect again.
 
I personally don't like the ones that extend weather by 3 turns. They're good, but only if your team is based on that (or if you really want to stop Sandstream I guess, but you have to kill Tyranitar first). I do like the one that extends Reflect/Light Screen though, since that helps your whole team for a long time, and it doesnt matter who they are (extended Reflect will be a good help to Blissey, but Sunny Day wouldnt really matter to it)
 
Out of those turn extending items, the only one which has any major use is the Damp/Heat Rocks and the one that extends Reflect.
 
The OP makes a good point. However, your choice of item when under item clause really depends on the rest of your team and where you want to put that leftovers, or whether or not you already have the item in question. There's only so much in terms of "backup item" that can be recommended, and we really do list what is optimal...
 
I was reading some stuff on serebii a while back, and apparently, shoal salt now recovers hp every turn when held by a pokemon, much like lefties. I dunno whether it's 1/16 or 1/32, though.
 
A Nice Item Clause Team.

Salamence: AG
Timid
252 Speed, 252 Special Attack, 4 HP

DMeteor
Hydro Pump
Fire Blast
Dragon Pulse

Timid for other Salamences/base 100s. Lead Sweeper, and the only 1 weak to Stealth Rock. (Lead helps that from hurting it). Immune to Spikes (as is Skarmary). Good coverage.

Blissey: Leftovers
Bold
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Special Defense

Softboiled
Seismic Toss
Ice Beam
Calm Mind

Handles Schemers better with Calm Mind. SToss for standard damage, and Ice beam for Dragons and Calm Mind to power it up. Calm mind makes up for the lack of Special Attack/Defense Evs.

Skarmary: Shed Shell
(+Def, - Special Attack)
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Attack

Roost
Whirlwind
Spikes
Drill Peck

Gets out of Magnezone/Probopass. Heals, Pseudo Hazes, Spikes for better coverage over Stealth Rock, and Drill Peck on Heracross/Breloom. Physical Wall.

Starmie: Expert Belt
Timid
252 evs Hp, 248 Special Attack, 8 Speed

Rapid Spin
Thunderbolt
Recover
Ice Beam

Sweeps with Expert Belt+ Bolt/beam. Rapid Spins, and Recovers off Damage with Max HP.

Starmie gets 298 Special Attack, and 300 Speed this way, above Modest/Adament base 100s.

Heracross: AS
Adament
252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP

Mega Horn
Earthquake
In fight
Pursuit/Stone Edge

Physical Sweeper, with great moves, great speed, and good STAB. Handles Tyranitar's Crunch/Pursuit/Earthquake.

Stone Edge can cover Salamence/Gyarados, but Pursuit has it uses.

Weezing: Black Sludge
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Special Attack

Haze/Thunderbolt
W-o-w
Pain Split
Flamethrower

Hazer with W-o-W and Flamethrower to handle Physical Sweepers if Skamrary dies, Skarmary/Bronzong, and other steels. Pain Split for Heal.

Haze can be replaced with Thunderbolt for Gyarados.

So making a useful Item Clause Team can be done, it only takes time.

You could probably replace Weezing with an @ Lum Berry Metagross: Meteor Mash, Agility, Earthquake, Thunderpunch to cover Gyarados and sweep, but it's not necessary.
 
So, without Item Clause, there's no reason to use it?

I had someone suggest it for a non-item clause Weezing, I thought it might be a different amount.
 
porygon3 said:
So, without Item Clause, there's no reason to use it?

I had someone suggest it for a non-item clause Weezing, I thought it might be a different amount.
Click to expand...

Screws over Thief, Switcheroo, Trick users. Use the sludge for Weezing.
 
or that you use Switcheroo/Trick...

Does my team help clarify that a good item Clause Team can be made?

I also posted it in the RMT Threads, so you guys can use it as an example that good teams can be made with or without the Item Clause.
 
Only Alakazam uses Trick. As soon as he kills Weezing or makes it switch out (since I doubt you'd let your Weezing stay in against something that powerful with STAB Psychic), he's going to give the Black Sludge to someone else on your team.

I can't think of anything good that would use Thief in one of its best movesets. I can't think of anything that would use Switcheroo either
 
I've been seriously considering the merits of the plate items/ type boosting items. These can easily screw over anyone calculations.

Expert Belt is alright but best used by Starmie and Electivre as they can hit almost everything with a super effective attack.
 
I use Mystic Water on Gyarados for that extra punch and messing with damage calculations.

Expert Belt is great for mixed sweepers like Electivire, Infernape or something like Weavile.

Life Orb is always an option for extra hurt.
 
Mystic water is a 10% boost right? I think plates give 20% (someone confirm me?), so splash plate would give Gyarados quite a boost on waterfall.
 
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