Mature Pokémon?

[Charro]

If the show was actually made right, it would be the f- shit.
Just imagine mons like Gallade or Alakazam abusing their movepool in the anime, teleporting all over the place, taunting, thunder waving, again, teleporting behind you and making you eat a close combat/psychic in the face (or back). Oh you have the same moves as me? not anymore! Imprison bitch!
Physical attacks? Reflect! Special attacks? Lightscreen! or just protect in general, but you can't abuse that (Teleport would be pretty broken). And it would be also fucking cool to actually talk to your pokémon since some of them like Gardevoir, Lapras, and I don't remember who else can not only understand human language but talk to you via telekinesis. It would be like Dragon Ball 2.0, sort of, since not all the pokémon can teleport, move at insane speeds or fire massive amounts of energy.

Man, Pokémon have such a great potential to be the greatest shonen ever made, you just need to be creative with it, instead of making it feel like the games. "Pikachu use thunderbolt!" "Pikachu dodge that" well no shit! trainers should be guides, and came up with strategies not command every single action that a pokémon should do.

Those kind of things can also be transfered to a game. Just make it like Dissidia Final Fantasy, with the ability to move your pokémon around, have massive movepools, have enviroments in which you can interact. Making it some kind of tactic rpg, shooter, thingy.
Most pokémon would be viable since you can abuse far more than simply 4 moves, you can always abuse terrain if your monster if either fragil or slow, and it would require far more skill than simply predicting switches.

I'm dreaming way too much? yes I am. I still think that Gamefreak could hire some creative developers to avoid repeating the same formula over and over. Oh I still love these games, but the concept behind all the pokémon (their abilities, powers, atributes that are only mentioned on the pokédex) have potential to make them even greater.

 

[Codraroll]

The Pokémon Anime needs some gears cranking up to become more mature, indeed.

Just a little more fireworks would be great. Showcasing evolved Pokémon more, and toning down the focus on NFEs. Yes, the smaller Pokémon can be more expressive and interact easier with the humans. That's understandable. Still, stuff like Elekid kicking ass and Zigzagoon being hard to deal with, heck no. The anime treats main characters' Pokémon like household pets with battling properties. They might be cute, and easy to animate, but it wouldn't hurt to try working the bigger designs into the stories as well. At the moment, small Pokémon = interactions, emotions and background comedy, big Pokémon = battles. Ash's Pikachu might be excused, having trained with him for several years, but a Piplup Dawn just got from the professor has no reason to suddenly wiping the floor with opponents thrice its size.
For another example, look at Brock and his Onix. It was his very first Pokémon, a gift from his father and a loyal companion at the gym. However, when travelling, Brock ditched it almost completely for Geodude and Vulpix, and Onix was only brought out to battle, or help all the other Pokémon when doing some task that would require cooperation. Then it was seen for three seconds, providing some gag involving its size. There were hundreds of situations where Onix' strength and size would solve all the problems, but it was simply ignored for the convenience of the plot.

Also, Ash should stop acting like he started his journey yesterday. He's been travelling for years, and has seen and visited pretty much all of the known Pokémon world, as well as personally interacted with ALL the Legendary Pokémon. Just acknowledging this fact would help the anime tremendously.


On the other hand, though, the anime has only one purpose: Introducing kids to Pokémon. If you have even rudimentary knowledge of the games, it becomes quite tedious, and if you're a fan, it's simply laughable how stupid the main characters act. Not to mention the constant resetting, making it easier to follow for new viewers. Nobody in the fandom takes it seriously, and extremely few follow it because they really like it. It's just a part of the "Pokémon package", something you pay attention to because of the nostalgia factor, and because it's actually a rather big part of the official Pokémon material. Might as well pay some attention to what's going on, it's about Pokémon and it's hard to ignore anyway. However, actually watching the episodes requires some suspension of disbelief.

 

[Scorpio]

@Cobraroll: Or they could just make a Colosseum/XD-based season/show.

 

[Furosuto]

@Cobraroll: Or they could just make a Colosseum/XD-based season/show.

Yeah, that would totally work! I love that idea. Or maybe make a console game like XD Gale of Darkness or Colosseum, but with a bit more variety, and maybe make the storyline even darker.

 

[Leviathes]

Also, Ash should stop acting like he started his journey yesterday.

This. Why the hell would Ash be so retarded at the start of every season? And for that matter, Pikachu somewhat becomes weaker at the start too due to some plot bullshit.

 

[Gokuzbu]

I would love a more mature game. Give us a good complex story to sink our teeth into. They could also make the game more challenging and not so noob friendly, it will never happen but I can dream.

I want a much longer game. The story mode should take a while to beat. Black 2 took me 2 days.

 

[Majestic Electric]

I wouldn't mind a more mature Pokemon game at all. In terms of a more developed story, I think the original Black / White games were a step in the right direction.

Now, on the topic of the anime:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2SA4GyXb2U&sns=em

^If it were more like that (or the Adventures manga for that matter), it would be A LOT better.

 

[Flareon]

Yeah, that would totally work! I love that idea. Or maybe make a console game like XD Gale of Darkness or Colosseum, but with a bit more variety, and maybe make the storyline even darker.

Yeah, I'm really hoping we get a console game on the Wii U, maybe we'll have a similar story.

Yeah, the Orre games were definitely the right direction to go in.

 

[Chaoswalker]

Nearing the end of White now, and I noticed that they really did try to flesh out your rivals more. While I like that its there, the way they did it was a little iffy. Sometimes it's through conversations with other characters, but other times they just walk up and tell you how they have changed and understand their motivations. Is that the best one can do when working with a silent protagonist?

Yeah, I'm really hoping we get a console game on the Wii U, maybe we'll have a similar story.

I want a Colleseum, and a Stadium. One for epic adventure, one for battling with friends. If the Colleseum can save Pokemon for free battling like Battle Revolution did, even better. If it can store them like Battle Revolution AND the Pokemon Ranch thing, they can just take all my money.

 

[Furosuto]

Actually, perfect idea for a more edgier anime. It's in an upgraded Orre, you are the red haired kid in XD Gale of Darkness, and he's starting his journey as a trainer to collect badges and such, like in the normal anime. He starts with an Eevee since it's cuddly, but can become pretty badass, and maybe after the first or second gym they introduce the snag machine and the shadow pokemon. Soon the main dude is running around collecting badges, but is also on the lookout for pokemon that might be shadow pokemon.

It would be perfect. We could have some of the underground shadow pokemon crime going on, and maybe even the main character's team consists of a couple of shadow pokemon he has to purify. And then of course, we could have the champion secretly being the guy who owns shadow Lugia!

 

[TailsTheeFox]

I really do wish for a better anime, not that the current one is bad(animation wise it's pretty good) it's that we need something... Better.

Just a little more fireworks would be great. Showcasing evolved Pokémon more, and toning down the focus on NFEs. Yes, the smaller Pokémon can be more expressive and interact easier with the humans. That's understandable. Still, stuff like Elekid kicking ass and Zigzagoon being hard to deal with, heck no. The anime treats main characters' Pokémon like household pets with battling properties. They might be cute, and easy to animate, but it wouldn't hurt to try working the bigger designs into the stories as well. At the moment, small Pokémon = interactions, emotions and background comedy, big Pokémon = battles. Ash's Pikachu might be excused, having trained with him for several years, but a Piplup Dawn just got from the professor has no reason to suddenly wiping the floor with opponents thrice its size.
For another example, look at Brock and his Onix. It was his very first Pokémon, a gift from his father and a loyal companion at the gym. However, when travelling, Brock ditched it almost completely for Geodude and Vulpix, and Onix was only brought out to battle, or help all the other Pokémon when doing some task that would require cooperation. Then it was seen for three seconds, providing some gag involving its size. There were hundreds of situations where Onix' strength and size would solve all the problems, but it was simply ignored for the convenience of the plot.

Also, Ash should stop acting like he started his journey yesterday. He's been travelling for years, and has seen and visited pretty much all of the known Pokémon world, as well as personally interacted with ALL the Legendary Pokémon. Just acknowledging this fact would help the anime tremendously.

It'd be soooooo much better, as stated before, the potential is there. We need to tap into it. Someone does. Anyone!

The games themselves... Could use a slight buff in maturity, back to Gen 1 days of darkness such as Cubone and Mewtwo. Darker stuff than that is also alright, but not needed. It's just annoying how much things have deterred away, as the first season of the anime was stomachable, but now it's just disappointing.

 

[Chaoswalker]

The games themselves... Could use a slight buff in maturity, back to Gen 1 days of darkness such as Cubone and Mewtwo.

Pokemon stories never stopped being dark. Yamask is downright heartbreaking. I don't think dark backstory is all the game needs though. Every Pokemon's dex entry could be "picks flowers for its mother" and still end up being entertaining to an older audience.


The character N was a step in the right direction. He spends the majority of the story pursuing his ideals, but Gethesis turns everything he had been doing into a lie. This was quickly resolved in one conversation, but he could have taken a while to struggle with this sudden change. Perhaps it would be up to you to go smack some sense into him and make him realize that he can still make a difference for Pokemon (or something like that.)
That's what I think these games need. More real life struggles painted on a fantasy universe. (making them interesting)

 

[Tibbs]

I couldn't agree with the sentiment of this thread more. Sometimes, when I think about the actual premise that underlies Pokemon - you carry monsters around in capsules and pit them in fights against other monsters - I wonder how it ever came to be so kiddy, the anime in particular. Pokemon like Gengar, Victreebel, Aerodactyl, Parasect, Mewtwo - some of them have downright terrifying concepts behind them. Would love to see a more psychologically developed/mature anime. I got so excited after seeing the Black 2 and White 2 trailer (cheers Majestic Electric for the link - watched it twice, haha), hear's hoping the franchise develops more in that direction in the future.

 

[Cresselia~~]

Weren't the first games as well as the first season of the anime way more mature than they are now? Or is it just my impression? Why would they make them more and more kid-friendly as time passes instead of the other way around?

I mean we had things like Mewtwo's origin story, most trainers using whips, Team Rocket murdering pokemon... and then we got things like Pokemon contests which were diabetes inducing in comparison.

Yes TR recruits were just as dumb as the other teams', but that's what made them even creepier. I was under the impression that they were all psychopaths.
The current ones... not so much. Starting from Team Aqua/Magma I could no longer take them seriously.

Even the locations were legitimately creepier. Lavender Town and the Pokemon Mansion could have been easily be placed in a survival horror game and still work. Nowdays we have things like Amity Square instead.

I agree, especially when I watch the Mewtwo movie nowadays, I really think that it should be for teens instead of for kids.
They put a lot of science and nice animation in that movie (compared to the other animated movies those days), as well as controversies regarding to cloning, it's just a bit deep for kids. (Even for the Asian education curriculum, it's still a bit too advanced.)

 

[EsurioXY]

I'd like a pokemon that is mature to the point of toning down some aspects of them. I know this'd make them too boring for many people but I'd enjoy less ridiculous things than what the trailer for Pokemon BW2 showed.

I agree, especially when I watch the Mewtwo movie nowadays, I really think that it should be for teens instead of for kids.
They put a lot of science and nice animation in that movie (compared to the other animated movies those days), as well as controversies regarding to cloning, it's just a bit deep for kids. (Even for the Asian education curriculum, it's still a bit too advanced.)

According to some sources that I forget the Japanese and English versions of the movie actually vastly differ regarding the interpretation of the clones. I think the clones are straight up evil and inferior or something right?

 

[Mario With Lasers]

According to some sources that I forget the Japanese and English versions of the movie actually vastly differ regarding the interpretation of the clones. I think the clones are straight up evil and inferior or something right?

Yeah, this is how they were seen, at least. I know for a fact Mew wanted to destroy all of them, specially Mewtwo.

 

[Shiruba]

i heard that, too. but then... what was/was there a moral in the japanese version of the movie?

 

[inanimate blob]

i heard that, too. but then... what was/was there a moral in the japanese version of the movie?

There was, but it was less "all life is equal" and more "good always triumphs over evil."

 

[Tibbs]

I didn't know that about the first movie! Interesting. Meanwhile, wake me when a recent Pokemon movie explores any theme that isn't 'good always triumphs over evil'.

...I guess the Celebi one did some stuff with time travel. I'll pay that.

But yeah, in terms of themes, was really impressed with Black/White tackling the whole 'what if catching, keeping and battling Pokemon is actually a really dick move?' theme. Was sort of disappointed that they resolved it by revealing that Ghetsis of course didn't really care about Pokemon being free, he just wanted to rule the world. Still, I'd call that a move in the right direction. Excited to see what themes X/Y explores.

 

[Cresselia~~]

Well... I saw the Japanese version but not the English version, so I can't really tell.

But what's in my memory was that Mewtwo had the clones on his side.
And that the clones were supposed to be superior than the original ones.
Then Ash kind of "persuaded" him (not with words though) despite the others, including the Nurse Joy, believed that both Survival of the fittest and that the strong would devour the weak are meant to be natural and biological. (And kind of implies that they should despair instead since they were inferior.)

Pretty much the whole movie is about how Mewtwo hates his life.
Then he decided to find somewhere else for him and the clones to live.
(But Mew somehow went with them)

Anyway, I only watched the full thing twice or thrice, and all times were over a decade ago by now.
When I said about "watching it nowadays" I meant a review of the past Pokemon movies.

"all life is equal" and more "good always triumphs over evil."

Wow! That's really new to me!
The ENglish version must be really modified.
I think the sole moral in the Japanese version was to discuss about what could happen/ go wrong with cloning.
Because they would be creating monsters like Mewtwo who could become destructive.

 

[Non-Guest 31415]

Yeah, that would totally work! I love that idea. Or maybe make a console game like XD Gale of Darkness or Colosseum, but with a bit more variety, and maybe make the storyline even darker.

I've hoped since the start of Gen V that there would be a third Shadow Pokemon game, specifically then because the Shadow Pokemon would provide another way to get Pokemon with their Hidden Abilities.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Relevent

I dunno though-- when I was a middle schooler I really liked this dark fanfic and wished Pokemon wasn't so kiddy. Now that I'm out of puberty and rolling closer to the age of young parents who have kids, I've come to better appreciate the wholesomeness and good will (for parents and kids) that Pokemon has always protected. I like that Pokemon stays in touch with adventure and nature-- taking its inspiration from, and on a similar theme/level of bug catching for boys.

Did you guys know that in Japan, Pokemon ranked as the #1 video game franchise trusted by parents on multiple surveys?

That part of what makes the franchise so successful is that parents also enjoy and trust the Pokemon franchise?

I honestly think that a mature-themed series would destroy a lot of what makes Pokemon successful, and great.

If I had any requests, it would be this-- please don't keep Ash at 10 years old after 10+ years of anime. Finish his saga, and just start new ones with new main characters. That is all.

 

[cjrocker]

Relevent

I take your fanfic and raise you this nuzlocke. It's not finished, but worth a read.

 

[Proc Trainer]

I think that Pokemon is slowly trying to mature itself. While the regular anime series is still going on, Pokemon Origins - a much edgier version of Pokemon Red - is happening. I hope that Pokemon Origins gets enough support to maybe create sequels for the other games. Pokemon is also much darker in the manga as well with dead Gym Leaders (brought back to life...but anyways) and a bisected Arbok O.o

 

[Non-Guest 31415]

See, X and Y are looking (from the leaks thread) to have a story that's more serious in nature (pity neutral natures are useless) than Gens 2-4 at least (Gen I has its moments, like Team Rocket killing the Marowak and the backstory behind Mewtwo's life and suffering, and Gen V has N and his inner struggle, as seen in the end of BW, his BW2 appearances, and his flashback). I mean, stuff like the bisected Arbok likely won't happen in-game given that they want to keep an E rating and a living creature being cut in half would KIND OF threaten that. Not sure how Origins turned out. Only 3 more days until we can find out for ourselves how X and Y do (and not through leakers)!