uh making generalizing play styles doesn't make it a sufficient counter, if you think it can actually hits and not just win again "people who always sword dance" maybe show calcs about it taking an EQ. Also knock off makes it unable to even revenge.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
X&Y LITTLE CUP VICTIM OF THE WEEK (Week 5, SD Gligar) (SEE POST 207)
- Thread starter Electrolyte
- Start date
Shellos @ Eviolite
Ability: Sticky Hold
Level: 5
EVs: 228 HP / 132 Def / 100 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Clear Smog
- Recover
- Ice Beam
236 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs. 228 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Shellos: 9-12 (33.3 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 228 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Shellos: 10-13 (37 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
236 Atk Gligar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 228 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Shellos: 6-8 (22.2 - 29.6%) -- 85.9% chance to 4HKO
+2 236 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs. 228 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Shellos: 16-21 (59.2 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 228 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Shellos: 19-24 (70.3 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 236 Atk Gligar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 228 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Shellos: 11-14 (40.7 - 51.8%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Shellos Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gligar: 24-32 (104.3 - 139.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
takes one boosted hit or two neutral hits and OHKOs back with ice beam, immune to knock off, gg
Last edited:
TURN 1: POKEMON switches out, gligar used swords dance.
Wooper @ Eviolite
Ability: Unaware
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 236 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Toxic
- Recover
Wooper is so great with unaware, it gives 0 shits about set-up sweepers and Gligar is no exception. It's also the cutest mon in the tier.
236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 236 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Wooper: 9-12 (36 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(9, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 12)
It can easily switch and recover off the 40% damage that Gligar does and just take it out with Waterfall, which is a 2HKO, 3HKO factoring in Berry Juice.
TURN 2: Wooper used waterfall, gligar used knock off
236 Atk Gligar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 236 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Wooper: 5-7 (20 - 28%) -- 18.9% chance to 4HKO
(5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7)
now gligar is full health without an item, wooper is at about 74% health.
TURN 3: Wooper used waterfall, gligar used acrobatics
236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 236 HP / 236+ Def Wooper: 13-16 (52 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16)
gligar and wooper now both die in one attack, wooper is slower than gligar
D: I guess gligar can be easily revenge killed now but
Gligar's actual Stats:
HP/Attack/Defense/Sp Attack/Sp Defense/Speed
18/17/17/9/13/19
Here Some Pokemon that has certain traits fighting gligar (not always viable!):
hummm, no replies yet... must be busy making calcs! anyway I will post my set, but which one to choose...
We got snover which is guaranteed KO-ed/switched out gligar, but may not have a viable EV spread
and voltorb which may be more viable but is not a guaranteed KO... oh I just realized/remembered gligar has berry juice, so 2HKOs are really 3HKOs (although voltorb has a 93.7% chance of OHKO-ing so that 2HKO could still be a 2HKO, but whatever)... so
I choose Snover!
Snover @ Evolite
Ability: Snow warning (or soundproof if you want that sound immunity)
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP/180 Attack/116 Defense/100 Special Attack/36 Special Defense/0 speed
Nature: Brave (must be an attack+ nature but ideally brave)
- Ice Shard (Only move needed to KO gligar)
- Hidden Power Fire (Free move slot 1)
- Blizzard (Free move slot 2)
- Giga Drain (Free move slot 3)
Snover's actually stats: 23/16/13/14/13/9
Basically snover can take any move 0+ gligar gives on the switch (as long as it's not a critical) and will OHKO gligar with ice shard before gligar can give a 2+ attack.
Snover's ice shard:
180+ Atk Snover Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gligar: 24-28 (104.3 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 28)
Given that gligar can only hit snover on the switch, gligar must have a OHKO in order to survive. I will ignore earthquake's calc cause it's the worst move for gligar to use on snover.
Gligar's attack calcs:
236 Atk Gligar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 36 HP / 116 Def Eviolite Snover: 6-8 (26 - 34.7%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO
(6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8)
236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 36 HP / 116 Def Eviolite Snover: 12-14 (52.1 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 14)
As for the EV spread, all you need is 180 attack EVs to KO gligar as snover can survive acrobatics with no extra bulk (however the given HP and defense EV allow snover to survive acrobatics after stealth rock and1 2(!) layers of spikes damage or just 3 layers of spikes)
236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Snover: 14-18 (63.6 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 18)
236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 36 HP / 116 Def Eviolite Snover: 12-14 (52.1 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 2 layers of Spikes
(12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 14)
(just trust me on the 3 spike layers thing...)
with just 180 Attack EVS, you have 328 leftover EVs for your own customization. I am not sure what is the optimal EV spread for the remain EVs. you could replace the evolite with something else cause with the above EV spread, you can still survive an acrobatics (but the evolite help with the entry hazards and soften hits so you keep more HP, but the evolite and other items have a chance of being knocked off anyways). my spread KOs gligar, survives entry hazards and the rest of the EVs are to boost the special attack and defense up a bit (I don't know if the last two stat achieve anything notable)... you would have 40 EVs leftover but that may not be enough to boost anything (even with the special defense EVs, you would have 76 EVs, which is not enough to boost any other stats, so blah blah different EVs distributions blah blah).
I would love to mention things about voltorb, but I am currently short on time... can we post more than one set since the voting aspect is gone, so if people can handle it, We could post multiple pokemon (unless we can't do an already picked pokemon, in which case, multiple sets among several people, could dry up the choice pool rather quickly).
HP/Attack/Defense/Sp Attack/Sp Defense/Speed
18/17/17/9/13/19
Here Some Pokemon that has certain traits fighting gligar (not always viable!):
Naturally Faster
Voltorb (maybe with a balloon?)
Yanma
Diglett
Sticky holders
Grimer
Trubbish
Shellos
Unburden Users
Purrloin
Swirlix
Drifloon
Priority Users
Corphish
Swinub
Snorunt
Snover
Bulky Pokemon
Bronzor forgot knock off is now super effective on bronzor
Koffing? I think Koffing is post-bank?
Hippopotas
Munchlax
Ferroseed?
slowpoke
spheal
vullaby
wooper?
lickitung
Horsea? I placed horsea cause it had 70 defense and Sp Attack but now It looks like it can't take 2 hits... But I don't feel like not mentioning it...
Voltorb (maybe with a balloon?)
Yanma
Diglett
Sticky holders
Grimer
Trubbish
Shellos
Unburden Users
Purrloin
Swirlix
Drifloon
Priority Users
Corphish
Swinub
Snorunt
Snover
Bulky Pokemon
Koffing? I think Koffing is post-bank?
Hippopotas
Munchlax
Ferroseed?
slowpoke
spheal
vullaby
wooper?
lickitung
Horsea? I placed horsea cause it had 70 defense and Sp Attack but now It looks like it can't take 2 hits... But I don't feel like not mentioning it...
hummm, no replies yet... must be busy making calcs! anyway I will post my set, but which one to choose...
We got snover which is guaranteed KO-ed/switched out gligar, but may not have a viable EV spread
I choose Snover!
Snover @ Evolite
Ability: Snow warning (or soundproof if you want that sound immunity)
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP/180 Attack/116 Defense/100 Special Attack/36 Special Defense/0 speed
Nature: Brave (must be an attack+ nature but ideally brave)
- Ice Shard (Only move needed to KO gligar)
- Hidden Power Fire (Free move slot 1)
- Blizzard (Free move slot 2)
- Giga Drain (Free move slot 3)
Snover's actually stats: 23/16/13/14/13/9
Basically snover can take any move 0+ gligar gives on the switch (as long as it's not a critical) and will OHKO gligar with ice shard before gligar can give a 2+ attack.
Snover's ice shard:
180+ Atk Snover Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gligar: 24-28 (104.3 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 28)
Given that gligar can only hit snover on the switch, gligar must have a OHKO in order to survive. I will ignore earthquake's calc cause it's the worst move for gligar to use on snover.
Gligar's attack calcs:
236 Atk Gligar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 36 HP / 116 Def Eviolite Snover: 6-8 (26 - 34.7%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO
(6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8)
236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 36 HP / 116 Def Eviolite Snover: 12-14 (52.1 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 14)
As for the EV spread, all you need is 180 attack EVs to KO gligar as snover can survive acrobatics with no extra bulk (however the given HP and defense EV allow snover to survive acrobatics after stealth rock and
236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Snover: 14-18 (63.6 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 18)
236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 36 HP / 116 Def Eviolite Snover: 12-14 (52.1 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 2 layers of Spikes
(12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 14)
(just trust me on the 3 spike layers thing...)
with just 180 Attack EVS, you have 328 leftover EVs for your own customization. I am not sure what is the optimal EV spread for the remain EVs. you could replace the evolite with something else cause with the above EV spread, you can still survive an acrobatics (but the evolite help with the entry hazards and soften hits so you keep more HP, but the evolite and other items have a chance of being knocked off anyways). my spread KOs gligar, survives entry hazards and the rest of the EVs are to boost the special attack and defense up a bit (I don't know if the last two stat achieve anything notable)... you would have 40 EVs leftover but that may not be enough to boost anything (even with the special defense EVs, you would have 76 EVs, which is not enough to boost any other stats, so blah blah different EVs distributions blah blah).
I would love to mention things about voltorb, but I am currently short on time... can we post more than one set since the voting aspect is gone, so if people can handle it, We could post multiple pokemon (unless we can't do an already picked pokemon, in which case, multiple sets among several people, could dry up the choice pool rather quickly).
Last edited:
I could be wrong here, but doesn't bergmite learn avalanche only after level 5, making it an illegal move in LC?
Bergmite @ Eviolite
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 228 Def / 52 Atk / 228 HP
Impish Nature
- Avalanche
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
Bergmite is a mediocre mon all around, but it's great against Gligar and things such as SubRoost Krow thanks to its naturally high defense, which is further boosted by it's Eviolite. Although Eviolite helps, unlike some Pokemon, he doesn't rely on it to beat Gligar, meaning it doesn't fear Knock Off as much. Even if something unlikely, such as a crit happens, you can Recover off the damage taken. It's mono Ice typing is what makes it really great against Gligar. It has no SE attacks to hit Bergmite with, and Bergmite can OHKO with Avalanche, keeping Gligar's Berry Juice from activating. Not much else to say, really. Bergmite counters SD Gligar cold, avoiding the 2HKO and the OHKO if he uses SD on the switch, and can OHKO with Avalanche after taking the attack.
You can breed the move onto Bergmite.
For level-up moves, both parents must know the move. I guess that means ditto doesn't count towards that.
Ive found Foul Play Vullaby to be pretty useful on beating Gligar. With great defenses, reliable recovery, knock off, defog, etc. its definitely not some gimmick to go out of your way to put on the team, its a real contributor.
Vullaby @ Eviolite
Overcoat
116 HP 156 Def 236 SpDef
Impish Nature
~Foul Play
~Roost
~Defog
~Toxic/Taunt/Knock Off
Vullaby can stop gligar in its tracks with a foul play, while also taking its hits with its great bulk and typing. Since Gligar's acrobatics is only useful once berry juice is activated, if you play it right, you can easily take that bat thing down. With overcoat, you are also able to absorb sleep powders spores, and stun spores. You have Defog to get rid of entry hazards, and any other move of your choice for support as the last slot. Vullaby can take all the hits from gligar, and come right back with its own, while also not being a sitting duck afterwards.
Calcs:
+2 236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 116 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 16-19 (64 - 76%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 116 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 7-10 (28 - 40%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Vullaby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gligar: 10-13 (43.4 - 56.5%) -- 59.4% chance to 2HKO
+2 0- Atk Vullaby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gligar: 21-25 (91.3 - 108.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Vullaby @ Eviolite
Overcoat
116 HP 156 Def 236 SpDef
Impish Nature
~Foul Play
~Roost
~Defog
~Toxic/Taunt/Knock Off
Vullaby can stop gligar in its tracks with a foul play, while also taking its hits with its great bulk and typing. Since Gligar's acrobatics is only useful once berry juice is activated, if you play it right, you can easily take that bat thing down. With overcoat, you are also able to absorb sleep powders spores, and stun spores. You have Defog to get rid of entry hazards, and any other move of your choice for support as the last slot. Vullaby can take all the hits from gligar, and come right back with its own, while also not being a sitting duck afterwards.
Calcs:
+2 236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 116 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 16-19 (64 - 76%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 116 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 7-10 (28 - 40%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Vullaby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gligar: 10-13 (43.4 - 56.5%) -- 59.4% chance to 2HKO
+2 0- Atk Vullaby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gligar: 21-25 (91.3 - 108.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
no, it's just that we should've had a vote by now but I guess Electrolyte doesn't care anymore
the problem is that gligar is literally unstoppable :c
Limitations:
a) can only revenge
b) relies on speed-tie (50/50 shot) to KO with Ice Punch
c) can this thing take a solid hit?
d) srsly put 76 SpD EVs --> Def, especially if you use it to fight gligars.
Suggesting mine later!
Elekid @ Air Balloon
Ability: Vital Spirit
Level: 5
EVs: 252 Atk / 232 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch
- Cross Chop
Air Balloon is a bit unorthodox, but it allows Elekid to safely switch in to Gligar. If Gligar uses Swords Dance or EQ, Elekid wins the encounter and comes out unharmed. Knock Off and Acrobatics will damage Elekid, but won't KO it. Elekid then outspeeds the next turn and KOs with Ice Punch.
236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Elekid: 5-6 (23.8 - 28.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO
236 Atk Gligar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Elekid: 12-15 (57.1 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
236 Atk Elekid Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gligar: 20-28 (86.9 - 121.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO ... well, it's not perfect :/
Life Orb Elekid is superior in all other regards due to higher damage output, and is perfectly capable of checking/revenging Gligar, but this variant has the unique trait of being able to switch into Gligar.
Goddess Briyella
Banned deucer.
You can only switch in once, though, if you come in on Acrobatics or Knock Off, because Air Balloon is a one-time use item. There's also this to consider:
Elekid @ Air Balloon
Ability: Vital Spirit
Level: 5
EVs: 252 Atk / 232 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch
- Cross Chop
Air Balloon is a bit unorthodox, but it allows Elekid to safely switch in to Gligar. If Gligar uses Swords Dance or EQ, Elekid wins the encounter and comes out unharmed. Knock Off and Acrobatics will damage Elekid, but won't KO it. Elekid then outspeeds the next turn and KOs with Ice Punch.
236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Elekid: 5-6 (23.8 - 28.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO
236 Atk Gligar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Elekid: 12-15 (57.1 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
236 Atk Elekid Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gligar: 20-28 (86.9 - 121.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO ... well, it's not perfect :/
Life Orb Elekid is superior in all other regards due to higher damage output, and is perfectly capable of checking/revenging Gligar, but this variant has the unique trait of being able to switch into Gligar.
236 Atk Gligar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Elekid: 13-16 (61.9 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If Knock Off is the attack that pops the Air Balloon, it's really going to hurt. If Gligar switches out to avoid the Ice Punch, which is an expected move, Elekid will be unable to reliably switch in a second time later. It's a good counter for that first instance, but not throughout a match, and even if you switch in on the Earthquake or the Swords Dance, the surprise of Air Balloon will be gone when you come in, and then it can be played around later.
Cool idea, though. :)
Electrolyte and I talked about this thread the other day. Basically, he feels as if this thread, like other Victim of the Week threads, does not serve much purpose in its current version. Most of the Pokemon posted here are things we already know counter that specific set well, or are flawed, although occasionally there is an interesting new discovery or two.
I proposed that this thread should be changed to more of a general discussion thread about how to play against whatever Pokemon is chosen as victim. Not just countering, but checking, revenge killing, general strategies like preventing the mon from setting up, etc. Of course, specific Pokemon sets that counter the Pokemon can still be mentioned, just less focused on specifically that. At the end of the week, whoever hosting the thread would make a comprehensive post (using information people post) about how to counter the Pokemon to serve as a guide. This version, in my opinion, has much more tangible utility than the current.
Not sure if this is what we should do, but feel free to comment on the proposed change.
I proposed that this thread should be changed to more of a general discussion thread about how to play against whatever Pokemon is chosen as victim. Not just countering, but checking, revenge killing, general strategies like preventing the mon from setting up, etc. Of course, specific Pokemon sets that counter the Pokemon can still be mentioned, just less focused on specifically that. At the end of the week, whoever hosting the thread would make a comprehensive post (using information people post) about how to counter the Pokemon to serve as a guide. This version, in my opinion, has much more tangible utility than the current.
Not sure if this is what we should do, but feel free to comment on the proposed change.
I think this is a great idea. Like kappa said this would be great for new players. I asked Blara if i could take this over to continue the thread before it dies, but this new idea sounds great! If electrolyte doesn't want to continue this thread I will be happy to Continue this, especially with the new idea.
Sounds good. In team-working, you can learn something new every day.