Thank you! I tried to be thorough.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame NP: RU Stage 6: Heavy Metal and Reflective (ALL 3 SUSPECTS BANNED, DISCUSSING POST BANS META NOW)
- Thread starter Molk
- Start date
- Status
Your Welcome :D
Hi, I'm new to RU and I've recently been playing because of the new suspects. I don't have much of an opinion on Dragalgae yet, but I can talk about Seperior and Mega Pidgeot.
I don't get why people think Serperior is overhyped, because it completely lives up to it. Right now on the suspect ladder I'm using a team to destroy Serperior's counters and spam Leaf Storm. The first thing is that once it gets to +2 it is really hard for mons to switch in. If your team is even slightly worn down Leaf Storm is going to be doing a lot so that even resists get 2HKO'd. Serperior is one of those mons where you pick the mon you want to sacrifice and bring in a check. Right now I'm leaning ban because I haven't seen too many counters in 12 games I had :P
Haven't used bird jesus or dragalge yet.
I don't get why people think Serperior is overhyped, because it completely lives up to it. Right now on the suspect ladder I'm using a team to destroy Serperior's counters and spam Leaf Storm. The first thing is that once it gets to +2 it is really hard for mons to switch in. If your team is even slightly worn down Leaf Storm is going to be doing a lot so that even resists get 2HKO'd. Serperior is one of those mons where you pick the mon you want to sacrifice and bring in a check. Right now I'm leaning ban because I haven't seen too many counters in 12 games I had :P
Haven't used bird jesus or dragalge yet.
Just one question, how do I see my coil rating? It doesn't appear in my stats, only gxe and glicko.
how do I see my coil rating? It doesn't appear in my stats, only gxe and glicko.
it appears under /rank with those just the last bar at the far right.
it appears under /rank with those just the last bar at the far right.
To add to your responses, you do realize that modest pidgeot isn't fast enough to sweep. Jolly cobalion out-speeds modest pidgeot. And timid pidgeot isn't powerful enough. Even at timid, scarf emboar out-speeds by 1 point and kills with wild charge. It still doesn't matter. Pidgeot isn't broken in RU. It's frail and doesn't hit as hard as it seems. Remember, M-Pidgeot's ability allows stone edge to hit EVERY TIME. Even with dragalge gone, it still isn't broken.
Last edited:
It shows when you do /rank in main or battle chat, and that's the only way of knowing it other than on the ladder ratings
Well, first of all timid base 110 flying STAB off of base 135 special attack is "powerful enough." It hits harder than a quiet Aegislash in fact.
Second, the fact that stone edge hits every time doesn't matter as much as you might think, since you wouldn't be staying in on a faster Pokemon with stone edge anyway. This "flaw" is something that you'd fear even without no guard, you'd still make the same plays, and - 80% of the time - get the same effect.
Third, the 100% of the time you hit stone edge and don't risk hax, the opponent makes up for by getting confusion 30% of the time.
I will talk about Dragalge since it is the one I have by far the most experience playing with and playing against. While it does have a very short list of mons that can switch into all of its moves, it almost always uses choice specs, so it can be very easy to take advantage of if it uses the wrong move. Any team that has a steel type and a fairy type can play mind games with Dragalge and if they predict correctly can get a free turn to do something like set up rocks with Bronzong or get off a belly drum with Slurpuff. While you may need to sacrifice a mon to a draco meteor, it is then very easy to come in and revenge kill it with things like banded Durant, (if rocks are up), Scarf Meloetta (again, if rocks are up), Mega Glalie, Mega Sceptile and Dugtrio who can trap it as well, or even just force it out because of the special attack drop from using draco meteor. Despite its bulk, Dragalge has no reliable recovery and therefore can be worn down with powerful neutral and super effective hits on the switch from mons like Magneton, M-Camerupt, Rhyperior, Pangoro, and Reuniclus. With all of that being said, its lists of counters and mons who can cleanly OHKO and revenge it are fairly short and quite frankly its raw power is disgusting. Skilled Dragalge users also usually make the right predictions when using Dragalge. He's become one of my favorite things to use in the tier, but if I were qualified to vote, I would have to go with ban at the moment for the reasons above.
Another note that I feel is worth mentioning (though not exactly a deciding factor) is that on top of Pidgeot's inability to miss the very-powerful Hurricane, the move also has the same chance to confuse that Scald has to burn (which everyone knows is ~100%). This chance alone can be a massive deciding factor for would-be counters who switch in to resist, only to become incapacitated by Confusion that very same turn. One turn of hitting yourself, and 3HKOs essentially become free 2HKOs, and I really don't think that's healthy.
I mean, people would complain if Hydro Pump was perfectly accurate and still had Scald's chance to burn, wouldn't they?
I mean, people would complain if Hydro Pump was perfectly accurate and still had Scald's chance to burn, wouldn't they?
Dragalge needs to go ASAP . Too over-centralizing, limits teambuilding, unhealthy for the meta bye
Contrary Serperior needs to leave as well. Getting +2 by using its strongest STAB move (bar Frenzy Plant) is insane. Incredibly fast as well.
I'm a bit iffy on M-Pidgeot as it does have some solid checks but at the moment i wouldn't ban it. Will post more thoughts later.
Contrary Serperior needs to leave as well. Getting +2 by using its strongest STAB move (bar Frenzy Plant) is insane. Incredibly fast as well.
I'm a bit iffy on M-Pidgeot as it does have some solid checks but at the moment i wouldn't ban it. Will post more thoughts later.
Last edited:
Honestly, dragalge and serperior needs to be banned while mega pidgeot is not broken at all.
Dragalge:
Dragalge can nuke most of the mons in the tier and has very limited switch-ins bar specially defensive steel types and most of the steel types do not have a reliable form of recovery. Registeel and escavalier gets 2HKOed by focus blast and hp fire respectively. The only reliable switch-in is bronzong, which does not have a reliable recovery and dragalge's teammates can handle bronzong just fine. In addition, dragalge has the bulk to back it up and can safely switch in to resisted moves and proceed to nuke. Overall, dragalge limits teambuilding and needs to be banned.
Serperior:
Having a stab 130BP move that gives a free +2 is too much for the tier and it also has a great base speed of 113. It has a respectable bulk of 75/95/95 that lets it to potentially take a hit. In the 4th moveslot, it can run knock off to remove golbat's eviolite etc.for utility to suplort its teammates. It has very little reliable switch-ins and it is able to tear through teams. Therefore i think it deserves a ban.
Pidgeot:
It has many checks and counters and is not broken imo. Its just really good. It does not limit teambuilding unlike the other two mons and therefore its a no ban for me
Dragalge:
Dragalge can nuke most of the mons in the tier and has very limited switch-ins bar specially defensive steel types and most of the steel types do not have a reliable form of recovery. Registeel and escavalier gets 2HKOed by focus blast and hp fire respectively. The only reliable switch-in is bronzong, which does not have a reliable recovery and dragalge's teammates can handle bronzong just fine. In addition, dragalge has the bulk to back it up and can safely switch in to resisted moves and proceed to nuke. Overall, dragalge limits teambuilding and needs to be banned.
Serperior:
Having a stab 130BP move that gives a free +2 is too much for the tier and it also has a great base speed of 113. It has a respectable bulk of 75/95/95 that lets it to potentially take a hit. In the 4th moveslot, it can run knock off to remove golbat's eviolite etc.for utility to suplort its teammates. It has very little reliable switch-ins and it is able to tear through teams. Therefore i think it deserves a ban.
Pidgeot:
It has many checks and counters and is not broken imo. Its just really good. It does not limit teambuilding unlike the other two mons and therefore its a no ban for me
Pidgeot most definitely restricts teambuilding. Its only hard counters are Rhyperior and Eelektross, maybe Bronzong to a certain extent. Its Work Up set can singlehandedly destroy most stall and balance teams, as well as offense if it cannot revenge kill Pidgeot. Pidgeot isn't OHKOed by any priority move (not even Ice Shard from Mega Glalie) and if it has a few boosts under its belt, with the confusion rate it even gets past SubCM Cress. Its offensive set gains momentum against its counters (none of which have reliable recovery) and has Heat Wave to 2HKO Bronzong after a little prior damage.
Sure, you could run one or two checks to it, but the sheer consistency of a 100% accurate Hurricane coupled with Mega Pidgeot's excellent Speed tier and ability to run decent coverage (HP Grass 2HKOes Rhyperior on the switch or if it overpredicts, so there's that) makes wearing down its counters very easy.
If you guys can name 3 viable stall mons that counter Mega Pidgeot* I would be all for it to stay, otherwise ban it out please. I mean look at this bullshit http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-202216821 it just ripped my perfectly good stall team without even using its stall breaking set.
*including Refresh Work Up sets
*including Refresh Work Up sets
CURSE REGISTEEL PROBOPASS REGIROCK
this is why dugtrio is a problem
As far as I have seen, dragalge is unhealthy for the tier. Due to adaptability + choice specs combination, its almost impossible for 90% mons in the tier to switch in against draglage. Not only that, one other big problem is dragalge's bulk which allows it to switch in vs a lot of stuff and after coming in, it can punish the opposing mon with its stong STAB moves. Though, due to dragalge's low speed, its not that difficult to revenge kill lt. The meta would be better If dragalge gets banned.
Mega-pidgeot is too good for RU. Its ability is what makes it unhealthy. Pidgeot is a nightmare for offensive teams, being faster than nearly every mon, its very hard to revenge kill it. Very few mons can switch in vs pidgeot's hurricane and its nasty confusion rate like eelecktross. Heat wave gives great coverage and makes it harder for steel types to switch in. Don't forget it also has access to u-turn, making it even more difficult for teams to deal with pidgeot.
Haven't tried or seen serperior much, will post thoughts later.
Mega-pidgeot is too good for RU. Its ability is what makes it unhealthy. Pidgeot is a nightmare for offensive teams, being faster than nearly every mon, its very hard to revenge kill it. Very few mons can switch in vs pidgeot's hurricane and its nasty confusion rate like eelecktross. Heat wave gives great coverage and makes it harder for steel types to switch in. Don't forget it also has access to u-turn, making it even more difficult for teams to deal with pidgeot.
Haven't tried or seen serperior much, will post thoughts later.
Well, I have been playing RU again for the suspect, and i have been using a Pokemon that is really great in the current meta that I want to share ...
@ Eviolite
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magnet Rise
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Substitute
Magneton is a pretty underrated threat if you ask me. Whenever you see a Magneton, most people automatically think it's Scarf, since it has the benefit of outspeeding most of the tier, including Serperior and Mega Pidgeot. Choice Specs is nice too for a good wallbreaking ability; however, Magneton's best item, IMO, is Eviolite, giving it immense bulk in both SpD and Def, having the choice of moves, and faking Specs/Scarf. Eviolite has many uses, including the ability to survive a Modest Heat Wave from Mega Pidgeot and OHKO-ing with Thunderbolt.
Getting to the set itself, Magnet Rise is just absolutely amazing in the tier. With it, Magneton will be able to wall countless Pokemon, including Rhyperior, Bronzong, Mega Abomasnow, Dugtrio, and Gligar. All which they're other moves are resisted and Magneton can not only KO / win 1v1 but also set up Sub.
Magneton's main niche is Manget Pull. Sure, Analytic is nice when hitting very hard, but Magnet Pull allows Magneton to trap and remove annoying Pokemon like Bronzong, Registeel, Doublade, and Escavalier. All which counter and check MULTIPLE of Pokemon. Bronzong and Regiteel are very common right now, since they check most of the threats in RU. Magneton takes advantage of these two Pokemon, sets up on them, and takes VERY minimal damage (Since they can only Iron Head / Gyro Ball, S-toss Registeel is not common rn), meaning Magneton does not only get rid of these Pokemon but ends up with a Sub :].
This set is also surprisingly not dead weight against stall, in fact, it's decent against it. Being immune to Toxic (And T-wave for offense js :]) with Substitute and its great Stabs and power will dent stall, especially if Cresselia goes down. It beats Alomomola, Registeel, All fairies, Amoonguss, Jellicent, and even does a very good amount to Gligar on the switch (If magnet rise is up, Gligar is VERY passive to Magneton).
Pair this monster with threats like Serperior, Dragalge, Mega Pidgeot, or even Fletchinder and you will get results.
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magnet Rise
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Substitute
Magneton is a pretty underrated threat if you ask me. Whenever you see a Magneton, most people automatically think it's Scarf, since it has the benefit of outspeeding most of the tier, including Serperior and Mega Pidgeot. Choice Specs is nice too for a good wallbreaking ability; however, Magneton's best item, IMO, is Eviolite, giving it immense bulk in both SpD and Def, having the choice of moves, and faking Specs/Scarf. Eviolite has many uses, including the ability to survive a Modest Heat Wave from Mega Pidgeot and OHKO-ing with Thunderbolt.
Getting to the set itself, Magnet Rise is just absolutely amazing in the tier. With it, Magneton will be able to wall countless Pokemon, including Rhyperior, Bronzong, Mega Abomasnow, Dugtrio, and Gligar. All which they're other moves are resisted and Magneton can not only KO / win 1v1 but also set up Sub.
Magneton's main niche is Manget Pull. Sure, Analytic is nice when hitting very hard, but Magnet Pull allows Magneton to trap and remove annoying Pokemon like Bronzong, Registeel, Doublade, and Escavalier. All which counter and check MULTIPLE of Pokemon. Bronzong and Regiteel are very common right now, since they check most of the threats in RU. Magneton takes advantage of these two Pokemon, sets up on them, and takes VERY minimal damage (Since they can only Iron Head / Gyro Ball, S-toss Registeel is not common rn), meaning Magneton does not only get rid of these Pokemon but ends up with a Sub :].
This set is also surprisingly not dead weight against stall, in fact, it's decent against it. Being immune to Toxic (And T-wave for offense js :]) with Substitute and its great Stabs and power will dent stall, especially if Cresselia goes down. It beats Alomomola, Registeel, All fairies, Amoonguss, Jellicent, and even does a very good amount to Gligar on the switch (If magnet rise is up, Gligar is VERY passive to Magneton).
Pair this monster with threats like Serperior, Dragalge, Mega Pidgeot, or even Fletchinder and you will get results.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-203730411
u know serp's a problem when it can sweep in mid- tier OU.
Besides that, I think that a healthy mega glalie is a great check/ counter to all of the suspected mons. It outspeeds dragalge, and it does a hefty amount with ice shard to both serp and jesus bird. Nonetheless, the fact that a BL3 mon has to be called up is quite ridiculous.
u know serp's a problem when it can sweep in mid- tier OU.
Besides that, I think that a healthy mega glalie is a great check/ counter to all of the suspected mons. It outspeeds dragalge, and it does a hefty amount with ice shard to both serp and jesus bird. Nonetheless, the fact that a BL3 mon has to be called up is quite ridiculous.
your perfectly good stall team with no flying resist yeah ok
glad ur back posting.. sigh
jeeze if you're actually worried about refresh work up bird run rest talk haze aurorus or something smh
pif, you're a good player, but that team is kinda jank. I'm pretty sure a decent number of people want Mega Bird gone, but posting replays of a bird weak stall team losing to birds is pretty pointless.
edit boltsandbombers my point was that asking for things that counter ridiculously niche (bad) sets (lol Refresh + Work Up) is in and of itself worthless, and that the replay posted was equally worthless
pif, you're a good player, but that team is kinda jank. I'm pretty sure a decent number of people want Mega Bird gone, but posting replays of a bird weak stall team losing to birds is pretty pointless.
edit boltsandbombers my point was that asking for things that counter ridiculously niche (bad) sets (lol Refresh + Work Up) is in and of itself worthless, and that the replay posted was equally worthless
Last edited:
But when you have to run specified niche counters like that, it means the mon is broken :[
Tbh I wouldn't call refresh work up pidgeot a bad set, but I digress - your point makes sense nonetheless.
Tbh I wouldn't call refresh work up pidgeot a bad set, but I digress - your point makes sense nonetheless.
Last edited:
Its a good set LOL. What mon takes on that set commonly in stall teams? It literally can 6-0 stall with that set as well as rip apart offense. Hurricane allows confusion hax to aid the set up, Flying is a type nothing is immune to with tremendous typing, and refresh+roost means stall really cant handle it. Bird is overcentralizing and VERY good(too good) and needs to go.
- Status